It's Official.
Rapier7
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Marines dominate.</div> I was one (although more annoying) of the 177 observers of the Exigent versus Terror match, and I have to say, watching NS at the competitive level is basically a repeat of a pub, except much more fun to watch.
Marines are overpowered.
Each team dominates the other as marines in the early game, this "omgz fades are too powerfulz0rz" crap is nonexistent, they're fighting for their very survival, not going on the offense. Granted, only one side used lerks in the mid-game and that might have made the difference between Exigent winning instead of losing their alien round, but both teams on the marine side just dominated the map.
Okay, some people will say ns_caged is biased (which it is, horribly, in favor of the marines), even on ns_veil (I can't see why clanners say this is such a good map, bad atmosphere, wide open, a death trap for the aliens) the marines would win.
Military strength? Marines win. (shotguns and HMGs owned fades and skulks, the mainstay of the Kharaa military)
Logistics? Marines win. (Medspam and ammo spam, phase gates)
Command structure? Marines win. (Commander)
Field Intelligence? Marines win. (Scanner sweep, MT [though this wasn't used in said match])
Every conceivable sector that defines military superiority is in favor of the marines.
"I think this build is very balanced."
"You're thinking from the pub perspective, clan play is more balanced!"
"All official NS maps are very balanced, nub."
"Early marine superiority is offset by fades in the mid-game."
I know Beta 6 is right around the corner, and it looks as though the Kharaa will be much better both in clan and pub play but I just wanted to say one thing.
STUPID "VETS" I FRIGGIN' TOLD YOU SO THAT THIS CURRENT BUILD AND ITS MAPS WERE HORRIBLY SLANTED TO THE MARINES.
That's all. Maybe this will be locked as a flame, maybe it'll be locked as there isn't much meaningful discussion, but I'm just sick of the "vets" who claim that Beta 1-5 was so good and that I was too "nub" to see why.
Marines are overpowered.
Each team dominates the other as marines in the early game, this "omgz fades are too powerfulz0rz" crap is nonexistent, they're fighting for their very survival, not going on the offense. Granted, only one side used lerks in the mid-game and that might have made the difference between Exigent winning instead of losing their alien round, but both teams on the marine side just dominated the map.
Okay, some people will say ns_caged is biased (which it is, horribly, in favor of the marines), even on ns_veil (I can't see why clanners say this is such a good map, bad atmosphere, wide open, a death trap for the aliens) the marines would win.
Military strength? Marines win. (shotguns and HMGs owned fades and skulks, the mainstay of the Kharaa military)
Logistics? Marines win. (Medspam and ammo spam, phase gates)
Command structure? Marines win. (Commander)
Field Intelligence? Marines win. (Scanner sweep, MT [though this wasn't used in said match])
Every conceivable sector that defines military superiority is in favor of the marines.
"I think this build is very balanced."
"You're thinking from the pub perspective, clan play is more balanced!"
"All official NS maps are very balanced, nub."
"Early marine superiority is offset by fades in the mid-game."
I know Beta 6 is right around the corner, and it looks as though the Kharaa will be much better both in clan and pub play but I just wanted to say one thing.
STUPID "VETS" I FRIGGIN' TOLD YOU SO THAT THIS CURRENT BUILD AND ITS MAPS WERE HORRIBLY SLANTED TO THE MARINES.
That's all. Maybe this will be locked as a flame, maybe it'll be locked as there isn't much meaningful discussion, but I'm just sick of the "vets" who claim that Beta 1-5 was so good and that I was too "nub" to see why.
Comments
... I doubt anybody really said this to you.
And yes, this is why aliens are getting a boost in b6.
So yeah, this will probably be locked for lack of meaningful discussion or something.
Oh yeah and...
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>1000 posts YAY! </span></span>
<span style='color:white'>Check the 'no headers' rule, please. Back to start.</span>
Because I remeber playing 1.04 as a rine and winning was hard and well earned
Because I remeber playing 1.04 as a rine and winning was hard and well earned <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But marines have always been dominant... except for a small pause between (public release) 2.0 and 2.01.
I'd rather it was more slanted to the horizontal.. if that makes sense
As for veil being super marine biased, you needed to see the old #cri team play it. I was personally destroyed on a couple of occasions until I *got it* and saw what they were doing. You don't need fades to slow marines down enough to get a second hive up, you simply have to be very innovative and sneaky, which is what aliens should always be.
The basic problem of the aliens is currently their extremely shoddy early game performance. Very skilled skulks are not as direly affected by this as normal ones, but still, they all suffer from the basic problem of getting from A to B, where A is the end of the corridor and B is the marine's throat. Thanks to the free upgrades, we essentially allow riskless adoption of three possible ways of going about this - closing in unseen, being too fast to be tracked, or just taking more punishment than usual. We hope it'll help a little.
By the by, Rapier, yes, aliens are underpowered at the moment. Why make this fuss? I can't even remember the last lively debate on this in here anymore.
The basic problem of the aliens is currently their extremely shoddy early game performance. Very skilled skulks are not as direly affected by this as normal ones, but still, they all suffer from the basic problem of getting from A to B, where A is the end of the corridor and B is the marine's throat. Thanks to the free upgrades, we essentially allow riskless adoption of three possible ways of going about this - closing in unseen, being too fast to be tracked, or just taking more punishment than usual. We hope it'll help a little.
By the by, Rapier, yes, aliens are underpowered at the moment. Why make this fuss? I can't even remember the last lively debate on this in here anymore. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
because the dead horse has been beaten a few too many times, including this thread.
increase...fade...cost...slightly
This amounts to a stronger early game for aliens, and a somewhat delayed midgame so fade rapage doesn't come too soon.
And B6 is awesome cuz U can own the rines with monster cloak of doom and random hitreg lolz <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Congratulations!
3.0 has a marine problem but thats how balancing goes - one way, then the other, until the pendulum settles in the middle.
There have been a LOT of HUGE changes from 1 to 2 to 3, and I think we're getting to the stage where little tweaks are needed as opposed to broad sweeping changes. In this respect I believe NS is nearing the sort of balance that was envisaged.
3.0 has a marine problem but thats how balancing goes - one way, then the other, until the pendulum settles in the middle.
There have been a LOT of HUGE changes from 1 to 2 to 3, and I think we're getting to the stage where little tweaks are needed as opposed to broad sweeping changes. In this respect I believe NS is nearing the sort of balance that was envisaged. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, i think after this version they need to settle down on the big changes.
1: Hell no
2: Hell yeah.
Hey people, how about that demo hosted on a different site...for some reason amped doesent like me and any accounts i try to create/login too.
Also fix that stupid Weapon Selection bug...
Could you elaborate some? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't see that there is ever really going to be an end in sight. I think people will just need to accept the game for what it is. As it stands (as I see it) the fundamental problems have been resolved and the things people complain about nowadays are just minor things that are ridiculous or vague.
Feel free to lock this thread, as he is safe back in his cave of dewm now......
Come on rapier, yes yes we know you are a big bad man, yes yes very evil, yes yes you are... well ok now just go to bed and we can talk about this tomorrow when youve settled down...
Immature little **** <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~Jason
<a href='http://perso.enst.fr/~cguerin/forum/ns_terror_exigent_ns_caged_ampednews.com.zip' target='_blank'>demo</a>
will be removed in 1 day.
I think marines are slightly stronger than aliens early game but other than that it falls down to map balance. The new changes in beta 6 give skulks a bit more chance but good marines will still dominate early because it takes time to get chambers up. The upgrades are not instant, you still need to drop 3 chambers, your rts and still get your hive/fades up in good time. 80% of games still hinge on the battle for the 2nd hive and thats not going to change greatly in the new beta.
No seriously, the alien game is not as entirely dependent on Fades as it looks from there. Take a look at say the Omega Semifinals last season - obscure didn't score a single lifeform kill due to immensely bad luck, but still almost got a second Hive up. Thats no Lerk kills, no Fade kills - 100% skulks. This season we're playing Delta, and the same stuff holds true as against reflect last season - crap happens, you lose Lerks/Fades occasionally, and its not the end all. The 2nd Hive is might be, but not the Fades.
And theres lots of teams out there with stronger skulks that occasionally go mc/sc.