Attention All Competitive Players

SquishyOne · February 2005

lies

Church · February 2005

I was in the NSArmslab NS server with obs.Saltz and people kept accusing him of speedhacking because he had a wigglewalk script, and also because he knew hwo to strafe jump and then turn around. "Ooh look at saltz he must be hacking because he can jump backwards faster than a skulk could move forward! HACKZORS!!111"

So sad...Bishop and I tried to defend him no one listened.

I think we need to inform the general public of wigglewalking. It'll help educate them.

Gerald_R_Ford · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 10 2005, 06:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was in the NSArmslab NS server with obs.Saltz and people kept accusing him of speedhacking because he had a wigglewalk script, and also because he knew hwo to strafe jump and then turn around. "Ooh look at saltz he must be hacking because he can jump backwards faster than a skulk could move forward! HACKZORS!!111"

So sad...Bishop and I tried to defend him no one listened.

I think we need to inform the general public of wigglewalking. It'll help educate them.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
or just remove it.

Church · February 2005

You kinda can't remove it due to the way HL physics works. It's the same reason you can strafe against the wall and run faster, and it's also why bhop is possivle.

tjosan · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 10 2005, 11:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You kinda can't remove it due to the way HL physics works. It's the same reason you can strafe against the wall and run faster, and it's also why bhop is possivle.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Well... you can remove it actually. Try to wigglewaggle or wallstrafe in counterstrike...

Fin · February 2005

Pressing a button to walk faster is pro. Go teach pubbers that. lol

SaltzBad · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 10 2005, 06:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was in the NSArmslab NS server with obs.Saltz and people kept accusing him of speedhacking because he had a wigglewalk script, and also because he knew hwo to strafe jump and then turn around. "Ooh look at saltz he must be hacking because he can jump backwards faster than a skulk could move forward! HACKZORS!!111"

So sad...Bishop and I tried to defend him no one listened.

I think we need to inform the general public of wigglewalking. It'll help educate them.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
By the way, you don't have to turn around after strafejumping - you just invert the directions, and the turning around IS the strafejump.

NSA is usually pretty low skill though, probably because it appears all the time when sorting the serverlist by players - and hence a natural breeding ground for playerhate, with newbies on their first few games vs clanners looking for an mp_bs 0 server :o

Church · February 2005

Hey teach me how to strafe jump will you? I need to learn that.

Fin · February 2005

So do most of the players in delta.

Malibu_Stacey · February 2005

no offence to Firewater or any of the regs or admins of NSArmslab servers meant here.
After playing on NSArmslab Classic regularly in the last week it really pointed out a lot of what is wrong with NS. 12 vs 12 should never be allowed. Even 8 vs 8 is too much for some servers where the average level of skill is high. 16 players should be the highest <b>any</b> server should run for NS maps.

Imagine you're comming with 11 marines. send 5 or 6 to the aliens first hive as soon as the round starts, let the rest cap nodes & mop up the aliens outside the hive. 3 minutes into the game you have an alien team of 12 players spawncamped (imagine how long it is going to take you to spawn when there are 11 other dead guys in the queue. Pick up a book or a magazine or something.). All you need to do is drop your rines ammo & the odd medpack if they ever get bitten (ff is off remember so its even easier for the rines). Build armoury near the rines, drop SGs & mines (you'll have about 8 or so RTs up at this time generally so 8 res per tick plus whatever you're getting off RFK means its very easy to do that) for all & its gg aliens. And that was only by sending approximately half of your marines straight to the hive.

Imagine this in 7 vs 7 or 6 vs 6. 3 rines go to hive. 3 rines get killed by 2 or 3 skulks and if the aliens have 1/2 a clue, Lerk support too. Meanwhile both teams are capping RTs & the game can progress as normal instead of the complete one sided slaughter as above.

Which is more fun? I guess it depends on which team you're on.

Harmondo · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Attention All Competitive Players, tired of getting banned for being good?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>[AMXX] You have been banned by admin [NSA]DeathKnight from this server.
[AMXX] Remaining 1439 minutes.
[AMXX] Reason suspected hacking to be reviewed by Urd.
[AMXX] Your nick: the cola. Your steamid: STEAM_0:1:1086882.
[AMXX] Your IP is 69.4.121.14</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Hurray! So much for the all-mighty NSArmslab servers.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

SDJason · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harmondo @ Feb 12 2005, 03:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Attention All Competitive Players, tired of getting banned for being good?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>[AMXX] You have been banned by admin [NSA]DeathKnight from this server.
[AMXX] Remaining 1439 minutes.
[AMXX] Reason suspected hacking to be reviewed by Urd.
[AMXX] Your nick: the cola. Your steamid: STEAM_0:1:1086882.
[AMXX] Your IP is 69.4.121.14</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Hurray! So much for the all-mighty NSArmslab servers.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yeah

And you posted your ban appeal and were unbanned

How many other servers do that(seriously, what other server unbans people regularly, admitting thier mistakes)

The admins even apologized for the misunderstanding...

Its an inconvenience yes, but least they own up to thier mistakes..give them credit for that at least

We are all human....

~Jason

Harmondo · February 2005

Not to sound like an ****, but most.

While I do appreciate the unbanning, it was rather ironic (if you can call it that) given the topic and FW's broad reaches to spread the word that NSA admins do <i>not</i> do this sort of thing.

a_civilian · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJason @ Feb 12 2005, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>How many other servers do that(seriously, what other server unbans people regularly, admitting thier mistakes)</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Almost every server I've been banned from has since unbanned me. All but <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87340' target='_blank'>one</a>, but I didn't deem it worth the effort to dispute that ban.

SaltzBad · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 11 2005, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hey teach me how to strafe jump will you? I need to learn that. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Its a single jump of bunnyhopping (usually called glidejumping, but that sounds kind of like stuff I do with sheep). Little known, but extremely obvious fact, is that you can't just bunnyhop forward - you can do it backwards too. Instead of strafing and turning in the same direction, you do so in <i>opposing</i> directions. Marines can do both, but they just can't do multiple jumps aside from the exceptions we all know about (height, catpacks + lightweight, etc)

Now, we all know there doesn't need to be a limit on how large your turn for air acceleration can be, right? So, you can technically do a 180 or another large turn while gaining speed - by simply, preferrably reflexively, smacking down the strafekey that points in the opposing direction. So say you like to turn your 180s left, you just always mash that right strafe key along with them and you'll be fine (this does assume the turn isn't just a jerk - like normal bunnyhopping theres a limit on how fast you can yaw without losing air control, but even at 100fps straight its pretty damn high. Just adding this in case you run a high sensitivity, you might jerk too strongly).

And there you go, h4x. Once you have bunnyhopping/air control down pat, you can apply that mechanic to almost anything (almost, because the lerk won't let you use it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />) - blinking, leaping, backwards bunnyhopping, forwards, sideways (technically possible with the forward/backwards keys) whatever the hell you like.

Church · February 2005

I still don't quite get it. So like, I should start running forward-rleft for a small amount of time, jump, and then...move my mouse right? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /> *confused*

Church · February 2005

I was banned from the Lunixmonster server for smurfing. Now arning whatsoever, and they also banned me from irc and forum when I tried to ask them what was going on (politely of course).

People should be warned that the owner of LM is not someone you can reason with.

tjosan · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I still don't quite get it. So like, I should start running forward-rleft for a small amount of time, jump, and then...move my mouse right? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /> *confused* </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Glidejumping is the first jump you do when you start bhopping.

It operates using the exact same mechanics as bhopping: an acceleration when you strafe and turn at the same time.

What you want to do is, as you run forward, start strafing in one direction and turn your mouse in that same direction. This makes you accelerate a bit, but is only for setting you up for your glidejump. As you reach a suitable angle to your intended direction you start strafing in the right direction, jump when reaching the right angle to your intended direction, and switch strafe key and turn in the other direction. You are now "starting" your bunnyhop, and by the time you reach the ground again you should be at about ~400 speed as a skulk* or ~270 speed as a marine. If you want to continue to bunnyhop from this, just jump as soon as you reach the ground and continue through the normal bunnyhop pattern.

An important bit to learn if you want to maximise your first jump is changing directions midair. If you do the first steps right, you will reach a point in mid air when you are starting to turn away from your intended direction (you have turned too far), by changing strafe+turn directions you will be able to land "along the line" of your intended route.

To sum it up:
The first "twitch" you see marines do is the first forward+strafe and turn combination.
Second, they do a normal bunnyhop movement in the opposit direction to the one which they "twitched" and jump.
Third, they change strafe and turn direction midair to make the movement as effective as possible.

Twitch, GLIDE-jump, change directions midair, land.

What I find interesting about all this is that it all revolves around "feeling" circular movements... all like in martial arts <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /> . When you are well practiced you should "feel" when you have made a good glidejump by judging your speedgain.

Like a civilian said, max speed gain is somewhere around 1,4x base speed, but the expected speedgain most of the times is somewhat lower, around 1,3x base speed.

A good idea is to set up your own local server with sv_cheats 1 and cl_showspeed 1 and practice glidejumping as a marine a few times untill you get that first good glidejump so you get an idea how it should feel like.

* edited to right lifeform

Church · February 2005

Holy crud that seems *really* hard...guess i'll practice to see if I understand it correctly.

So, strafe/turn one direction, start bhop in the other, and then turn mid-air to the original direction...

a_civilian · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Feb 12 2005, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Like a civilian said, max speed gain is somewhere around 1,4x base speed, but the expected speedgain most of the times is somewhat lower, around 1,3x base speed.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually, I was referring to simple strafejumping, and the realistic maximum for that is under 1.2*base speed. With glide-jumping, you can get 1.5*base speed, perhaps more.

kavasa · February 2005

tjosan - marine base speed is about 200, so your glidejumps should go to around 300-320. At least that's what I see from cl_showspeed when I do it.

Church, it actually isn't really that hard, just hard to <i>describe</i>. Just learn to bunnyhop, and it'll come naturally.

a_civilian · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 12 2005, 01:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Holy crud that seems *really* hard...guess i'll practice to see if I understand it correctly.

So, strafe/turn one direction, start bhop in the other, and then turn mid-air to the original direction... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
It's not really that complicated. There is no rigid motion that you must follow. All you have to know is that you can strafeturn for speed while on the ground just as you can while in the air. Furthermore, because you are not relying on the weak air control but on full surface movement, you gain speed much more rapidly. Thus, to glide-jump, you strafeturn on the ground for a quick gain in speed, and then jump to escape friction before you lose that speed. There is nothing special that you have to do to start bunnyhopping from here. After executing the glide-jump, simply begin executing the repeated alternation of strafeturning and continual jumping that together constitute bunnyhopping. Just treat the glide-jump as your normal initial jump for bunnyhopping.

An important difference between surface and aerial strafeturning is that while aerial strafeturning causes you to move in a direction perpendicular to your directional command, surface strafeturning will move you in a direction closer to that of the directional command. This is why when you glide-jump forward, you want to hold forward as well as the strafe key. (When glide-jumping backward as marines, however, you should only hold a strafe key, as +back is too slow.)

tjosan · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Feb 12 2005, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> tjosan - marine base speed is about 200, so your glidejumps should go to around 300-320. At least that's what I see from cl_showspeed when I do it.

Church, it actually isn't really that hard, just hard to <i>describe</i>. Just learn to bunnyhop, and it'll come naturally.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually you're right, I just checked it...

MrGunner · February 2005

One of the best ways to learn is to set friction to 0 on a large open map and try circle strafing. You'll know you have the movements right when you can pick up large amounts of speed in very little time. After that it's just a matter or timing your jumps using mouse wheel or a 3 jump.

Firewater · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harmondo @ Feb 12 2005, 04:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Not to sound like an ****, but most.

While I do appreciate the unbanning, it was rather ironic (if you can call it that) given the topic and FW's broad reaches to spread the word that NSA admins do <i>not</i> do this sort of thing.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I never said they were perfect, I said they would be adaptable, they learn from their mistakes.

Some servers have ban lists of 650+ (a lot of which are competitive).

Please note that you were banned because of being suspected of cheating, NOT because of competitive status.

I see no reason to bash the community even though they took steps to rectify the situation

SpaceJesus · February 2005

banned because they *suspected* him of hacking?

GG

Church · February 2005

Well, rather they believed he was hacking, and since they're the admins, they don't have to prove it to anyone else.

TOmekki · February 2005

nm im an idiot

coris · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Feb 14 2005, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> nm im an idiot  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Indeed B<

Jk.
nm me.
>_>

Firewater · February 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 14 2005, 04:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well, rather they believed he was hacking, and since they're the admins, they don't have to prove it to anyone else.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
But atleast they are human and can admit they are wrong

Attention All Competitive Players

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