<!--QuoteBegin-obuh+Nov 19 2004, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (obuh @ Nov 19 2004, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe instead of going out and calling people cheaters, you could actually focus more on playing the game and having fun, and instead of blaming your deaths on cheats/scripts/hacks/angry grandmothers, try to do crazy things like learning from your mistakes, practicing and improving at the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem is I would like to have fun if others did not spoil it with their lousy unfair and cowardlike "tune-ups".
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 01:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why can´t people teh game as it was meant to be played Fullstop! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can´t people teh game as it I want it to be played Fullstop!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For clarity.
<!--QuoteBegin-Special K+Nov 19 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Special K @ Nov 19 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 01:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why can´t people teh game as it was meant to be played Fullstop! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can´t people teh game as it I want it to be played Fullstop!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For clarity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Manipulating my quotes?
Listen fellow! There is an options menu in the game. There you select you keys, your resolution, sound volume, etc.
the_move, you make too many generalizations when you make your explainations. You make playing NS seem like it is full of players using a large assortment of scripts to give them an advantage, but it isn't like that at all. Infact it's not as ramped as one might assume, and the amount of alias based exploits is actually quite small.
Leap+bite aliases will never replace manually executed actions and will always have disadvantages.
You say: "<i>I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either.</i>"
You can't place both scripting and hacking in the same boat. A hack is purely malicious and degenerate to the game and it's players while a script would only be cheating if using a very obvious exploit in the game.
I script.. but I don't hack. Because I use a volume script or a demo recording script does that make me a cheater, a player lacking "skill", or a player without "honor"? Of course not. Does my chamber selection or upgrading selecting script cast me in the same light as a speed hacker or aimbot user? Not at all.. That just means I don't care to have 8 keys bound to commands that I know can be condensed in to an efficient order of operations.
<b>EDIT:</b> and being somewhat of an authority on scripts and alias writing I will quote myself from another thread. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will say the use of scripts and aliases is a double edged sword. At one side they are utilitarian, and rarely effect how you play the game directly. There are also scripts that help you to perform functions that are still perfectly "okay". Looking at NS specifically, you have scripts that can pick and choose upgrade chambers and upgrades themselves. Instead of binding many many keys to each function, the option without using aliases, then there could be lots of clutter and confusion, but since we have aliases we can take all those key binds and consolidate them in to only 3 or 4 keys and not deal with using up keyboard space or confusion. Even when you can drop two upgrade chambers at the same time with a script you can do the Exact same thing with two binds, or even one single bind. So preventing ALL scripts would prevent people from using very legitimite scripts like mentioned above.
Now on the other side of the blade you have real exploits. Forgotton commands and broken commands that would allow the player to do things you couldn't manually do in the game. Take for instance bunny hopping in CS. This example is easy enough to follow. Bunny hopping is not a part of CS anymore. You can't perform this on your own, because the game itself doesn't allow you to do it, but with an alias or script to change the enviroment you would be doing something your NOT supposed to do in CS. Like CS it goes for every game. Binding attack to your mousewheel a script? No.
Instead of preventing all scripts there needs to be a measure to identify what functions scripts and aliases provide that are illegal and block their uses. Either the game developers can change parts of the game to stop the use of those specific actions, or have some sort of third party plugin to prevent the actions of an alleged illegal script or alias.
I believe, for the most part, people just don't know where to draw the line because they don't know enough about alias writing in the first place or have actually seen a real exploit in action.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Listen fellow! There is an options menu in the game. There you select you keys, your resolution, sound volume, etc.
Any manipulation going beyond is "CHEAT".
See?! That´s so easy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What a persuasive argument! Why didn't I think of that before? Congrats, you just revolutionized ns.
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 19 2004, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 19 2004, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "If you can't beat'em, accuse'em!" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> haha, I am interested in beating people on fair circumstances.
I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What's the difference with me saying:
I do play competitive NS, I do use scripts, I do have above average skill and whatever so others should do the same as me. My god, my logic astounds me now that I type it out.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then tell me, if the LMG is so fast, why does it often take me 2,5 seconds to kill a skulk right in front of me and in my CH?
Do I shoot with blanks or what?
Something isn´t right here for sure.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Instead of relying on intuition and accurate aim, try using a more precise method like timing how long it takes to empty a clip. I have, and my results agree with those of Anderval.
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 03:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Listen fellow! There is an options menu in the game. There you select you keys, your resolution, sound volume, etc.
Any manipulation going beyond is "CHEAT".
See?! That´s so easy.
For clarity! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
I personally have made a script allowing me to rebind my "mouse2" to either "slot2", "slot3" or "slot4" each time I click on "mouse3". So when I'm a skulk I can get to my leap slot quickly, when I'm a fade I can get to my blink slot quickly, when I'm a lerk I can spore/umbra quickly, when I'm a marine I can get my pistol out quickly, etc... From what you say, this would be illegal, yet I could do the same thing in a rather stupid way which would be to go rebind my "mouse2" key in the Steam options each time I change class, because from what you say I would obviously not be allowed to use my console. Just for the record, do you consider this as a cheat? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteBegin-Head crab+Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Head crab @ Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that also available in the options menu?
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 19 2004, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 19 2004, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What's the difference with me saying: I do play competitive NS, I do use scripts, I do have above average skill and whatever so others should do the same as me. My god, my logic astounds me now that I type it out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not about skill here, but about manipulation, you know. And nice, that you - at least - admit it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Special K+Nov 19 2004, 08:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Special K @ Nov 19 2004, 08:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What a persuasive argument! Why didn't I think of that before? Congrats, you just revolutionized ns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because the corrupted never think of their actions.
Double post: -25 x 4 = -100 points! Triple post: -100 x 2 = -200 points! Stating opinions as fact: -500 points <b>This thread loses.</b>
the_move, I would encourage you to either think a little more open-mindedly or stop posting altogether. And for the love of god, brush up on your forum etiquette.
the_move, I'm very disappointed since you didn't bother to address what I had brought to the table.
Just because a command such as ex_interp isn't configurable in a menu doesn't mean it's an exploit or bad. Why should I and many other stand to use a value of 15 for cmdrate when most players have broadband and can see a performance increase by using something higher than 15? But then again you most likely have no idea what those commands are.
I challenge you to reply to what I had to say on the matter. I want you to give clear concise statements and please back them up with some substatial evidence and not leave it on the floor. It's not enough for you to spout your claims about scripts and commands, and then go scurrying off under the rug.
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Head crab+Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Head crab @ Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was on a server today, two of the aliens accused me of hacking, so the comm didnt drop me anything the whole game, and tried to vote kick me over and over.
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 20 2004, 02:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 20 2004, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Head crab+Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Head crab @ Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The fact that you haven't changed your rates or other options (bullet reg, model movement smoothing ones) from the default ones set by steam because it's "cheating" might, just might, have something to do with your difficulty to hit anything.
also: i use a +3jump script on public servers for bunny hopping, i also use ammo and medpack binds, Does this improve my aim somehow?
<!--QuoteBegin-Anderval+Nov 19 2004, 09:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anderval @ Nov 19 2004, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 20 2004, 02:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 20 2004, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Head crab+Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Head crab @ Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The fact that you haven't changed your rates or other options (bullet reg, model movement smoothing ones) from the default ones set by steam because it's "cheating" might, just might, have something to do with your difficulty to hit anything.
also: i use a +3jump script on public servers for bunny hopping, i also use ammo and medpack binds, Does this improve my aim somehow? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no, it makes your LMG do 900 damage per shot
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 19 2004, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 19 2004, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "If you can't beat'em, accuse'em!" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> haha, I am interested in beating people on fair circumstances.
I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The irony.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 08:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 19 2004, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 19 2004, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What's the difference with me saying: I do play competitive NS, I do use scripts, I do have above average skill and whatever so others should do the same as me. My god, my logic astounds me now that I type it out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not about skill here, but about manipulation, you know. And nice, that you - at least - admit it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you missed the point of that sentence. Entirely. It was meant to show you what your arguments look like to us.
Compare it to your statement: "I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either."
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 09:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Head crab+Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Head crab @ Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good, now that we agree that you indeed consider both of my examples as illegal, can you confirm that you think so because you believe that Valve, the makers of Half-Life, also did think so when they made the game? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Nov 20 2004, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Nov 20 2004, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cheating is cheating, if you wanna hack a game go screw the people playing ricochet or something.. leave ns alone
spend more time on skill building and less time of hack scripting and you'll be a great player before you know it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I script. Do I hack? No. If I were to hack, I would not necessarily script, and vice-versa. Come on, I'd figure that people would know this by now.
were talking about cheating here buddy, this isn't the time nor the place to tackle the huge dabate since the beggining of time about scripting ( even tho it is for ninnies) were talking about cheating, not scripting. and if you use a script to write a cheat. its what the code is called
It seems as though this keeps going around and around.
There is a LARGE difference between hacking a game and alias writing. You <i>can't</i> "script hack" an aimbot. You can't "script hack" a speed hack. This is like the greatest misnomer I've seen.
I agree.. cheating is cheating, but using a script to choose your upgrade as an alias isn't cheating. It just means I don't care to use the popup menu and bind NINE keys to all the upgrade choices. No I'd rather consolidate them down to four keys or so.
Get your heads out of the sand and get educated on the matter instead of jumping on the same boat and chanting the same chants.
Guys this is why threads get locked. I mean if you wan to argue about scripts for hours on end just do it elsewhere or play on mp_bs 1 servers. The ignorant rarely change, and fighting about this justs pushes more people away. I personally choose to use scripts. Whoop de doo. Can this thread die now?
<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Nov 20 2004, 01:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Nov 20 2004, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> were talking about cheating, not scripting. and if you use a script to write a cheat. its what the code is called <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> nope I'm pretty sure you write cheats in <b>C++</b> NOT HL'S SCRIPTING ENGINE.
<!--QuoteBegin-the_move+Nov 19 2004, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the_move @ Nov 19 2004, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Head crab+Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Head crab @ Nov 19 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So ati_npatch 2.0 is default because it is the sacrosanct way of playing Natural Selection, not because noone thought it might just mess up ATI cards someday? Sure.
Computers games are played with the unspoken rule that the mechanical boundarys of the game are the limits, not any self-imposed ones. This is why they challenge the mind, and persuade you to try things noone has thought of before - to excel in a limited enviroment, and show that no matter how tightly you run those strings human ingenuinity will slowly devise new and more efficient ways of using these rules to your advantage. This mentality in computer game design only stops when players discover exploits - things that entirely break the intended spirit of the game. And only one entity has the power to decide what actually breaks this spirit, and completely remove that course of action from the available ones. They're called game developers.
Logically following, anything not removed with full force from the game is considered part of it. This is the essence of having fun in a remotely competitive game - to join in the intention of playing by the rules while attempting your best to break them, destroy them, misuse them or any other way of working them to your advantage. <i>Not to bicker over them and your mis-conceived ideas of honor, and what should and should not happen.</i> Of course the attempts at such will never cease, but at some point we should all be old enough to see this for the immature inability to lose at any terms but your own.
Maybe its a thing of age, but more likely just a thing of stubborness. Playing a game doesn't mean crafting anything to your will, making people play by your rules, instead it means learning : in this case, learning an enviroment where things fly sideways through the air and accelerate, where you have the limited ability to define what your keystrokes will perform, where movement is not determined by any realistic muscle coordination, but by the patterns your brain can envision under pressure and your left and right hand can coordinate together.
Don't like it? Well, go play with people that want to quibble and complain at eachother as well. Leave the big boys alone, because we're having one hell of a time. Thanks.
Comments
The problem is I would like to have fun if others did not spoil it with their lousy unfair and cowardlike "tune-ups".
Got it?
haha, I am interested in beating people on fair circumstances.
I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can´t people teh game as it I want it to be played Fullstop!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For clarity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can´t people teh game as it I want it to be played Fullstop!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For clarity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Manipulating my quotes?
Listen fellow! There is an options menu in the game. There you select you
keys, your resolution, sound volume, etc.
Any manipulation going beyond is "CHEAT".
See?! That´s so easy.
For clarity!
Leap+bite aliases will never replace manually executed actions and will always have disadvantages.
You say:
"<i>I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either.</i>"
You can't place both scripting and hacking in the same boat. A hack is purely malicious and degenerate to the game and it's players while a script would only be cheating if using a very obvious exploit in the game.
I script.. but I don't hack. Because I use a volume script or a demo recording script does that make me a cheater, a player lacking "skill", or a player without "honor"? Of course not. Does my chamber selection or upgrading selecting script cast me in the same light as a speed hacker or aimbot user? Not at all.. That just means I don't care to have 8 keys bound to commands that I know can be condensed in to an efficient order of operations.
<b>EDIT:</b> and being somewhat of an authority on scripts and alias writing I will quote myself from another thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will say the use of scripts and aliases is a double edged sword. At one side they are utilitarian, and rarely effect how you play the game directly. There are also scripts that help you to perform functions that are still perfectly "okay". Looking at NS specifically, you have scripts that can pick and choose upgrade chambers and upgrades themselves. Instead of binding many many keys to each function, the option without using aliases, then there could be lots of clutter and confusion, but since we have aliases we can take all those key binds and consolidate them in to only 3 or 4 keys and not deal with using up keyboard space or confusion. Even when you can drop two upgrade chambers at the same time with a script you can do the Exact same thing with two binds, or even one single bind. So preventing ALL scripts would prevent people from using very legitimite scripts like mentioned above.
Now on the other side of the blade you have real exploits. Forgotton commands and broken commands that would allow the player to do things you couldn't manually do in the game. Take for instance bunny hopping in CS. This example is easy enough to follow. Bunny hopping is not a part of CS anymore. You can't perform this on your own, because the game itself doesn't allow you to do it, but with an alias or script to change the enviroment you would be doing something your NOT supposed to do in CS. Like CS it goes for every game. Binding attack to your mousewheel a script? No.
Instead of preventing all scripts there needs to be a measure to identify what functions scripts and aliases provide that are illegal and block their uses. Either the game developers can change parts of the game to stop the use of those specific actions, or have some sort of third party plugin to prevent the actions of an alleged illegal script or alias.
I believe, for the most part, people just don't know where to draw the line because they don't know enough about alias writing in the first place or have actually seen a real exploit in action.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
keys, your resolution, sound volume, etc.
Any manipulation going beyond is "CHEAT".
See?! That´s so easy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a persuasive argument! Why didn't I think of that before? Congrats, you just revolutionized ns.
haha, I am interested in beating people on fair circumstances.
I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference with me saying:
I do play competitive NS, I do use scripts, I do have above average skill and whatever so others should do the same as me. My god, my logic astounds me now that I type it out.
Do I shoot with blanks or what?
Something isn´t right here for sure.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Instead of relying on intuition and accurate aim, try using a more precise method like timing how long it takes to empty a clip. I have, and my results agree with those of Anderval.
keys, your resolution, sound volume, etc.
Any manipulation going beyond is "CHEAT".
See?! That´s so easy.
For clarity! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
I personally have made a script allowing me to rebind my "mouse2" to either "slot2", "slot3" or "slot4" each time I click on "mouse3". So when I'm a skulk I can get to my leap slot quickly, when I'm a fade I can get to my blink slot quickly, when I'm a lerk I can spore/umbra quickly, when I'm a marine I can get my pistol out quickly, etc... From what you say, this would be illegal, yet I could do the same thing in a rather stupid way which would be to go rebind my "mouse2" key in the Steam options each time I change class, because from what you say I would obviously not be allowed to use my console. Just for the record, do you consider this as a cheat? Answer with yes or no.
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered.
I do play competitive NS, I do use scripts, I do have above average skill and whatever so others should do the same as me. My god, my logic astounds me now that I type it out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not about skill here, but about manipulation, you know.
And nice, that you - at least - admit it.
Because the corrupted never think of their actions.
Triple post: -100 x 2 = -200 points!
Stating opinions as fact: -500 points
<b>This thread loses.</b>
the_move, I would encourage you to either think a little more open-mindedly or stop posting altogether. And for the love of god, brush up on your forum etiquette.
Just because a command such as ex_interp isn't configurable in a menu doesn't mean it's an exploit or bad. Why should I and many other stand to use a value of 15 for cmdrate when most players have broadband and can see a performance increase by using something higher than 15? But then again you most likely have no idea what those commands are.
I challenge you to reply to what I had to say on the matter. I want you to give clear concise statements and please back them up with some substatial evidence and not leave it on the floor. It's not enough for you to spout your claims about scripts and commands, and then go scurrying off under the rug.
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was on a server today, two of the aliens accused me of hacking, so the comm didnt drop me anything the whole game, and tried to vote kick me over and over.
reminded me of you
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that you haven't changed your rates or other options (bullet reg, model movement smoothing ones) from the default ones set by steam because it's "cheating" might, just might, have something to do with your difficulty to hit anything.
also: i use a +3jump script on public servers for bunny hopping, i also use ammo and medpack binds, Does this improve my aim somehow?
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that you haven't changed your rates or other options (bullet reg, model movement smoothing ones) from the default ones set by steam because it's "cheating" might, just might, have something to do with your difficulty to hit anything.
also: i use a +3jump script on public servers for bunny hopping, i also use ammo and medpack binds, Does this improve my aim somehow? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, it makes your LMG do 900 damage per shot
haha, I am interested in beating people on fair circumstances.
I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The irony.
I do play competitive NS, I do use scripts, I do have above average skill and whatever so others should do the same as me. My god, my logic astounds me now that I type it out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not about skill here, but about manipulation, you know.
And nice, that you - at least - admit it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you missed the point of that sentence. Entirely. It was meant to show you what your arguments look like to us.
Compare it to your statement: "I do not script or hack or whatever so others shouldn´t do either."
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good, now that we agree that you indeed consider both of my examples as illegal, can you confirm that you think so because you believe that Valve, the makers of Half-Life, also did think so when they made the game? Answer with yes or no.
spend more time on skill building and less time of hack scripting and you'll be a great player before you know it
spend more time on skill building and less time of hack scripting and you'll be a great player before you know it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I script. Do I hack? No. If I were to hack, I would not necessarily script, and vice-versa. Come on, I'd figure that people would know this by now.
so yeah. don't get all but hurt
There is a LARGE difference between hacking a game and alias writing. You <i>can't</i> "script hack" an aimbot. You can't "script hack" a speed hack. This is like the greatest misnomer I've seen.
I agree.. cheating is cheating, but using a script to choose your upgrade as an alias isn't cheating. It just means I don't care to use the popup menu and bind NINE keys to all the upgrade choices. No I'd rather consolidate them down to four keys or so.
Get your heads out of the sand and get educated on the matter instead of jumping on the same boat and chanting the same chants.
nope I'm pretty sure you write cheats in <b>C++</b>
NOT HL'S SCRIPTING ENGINE.
christ does it hurt to be that ignorant?
So you consider cheating anybody changing his cl_updaterate, cl_cmdrate, ex_interp, ex_extrapmax, as well as some worthless performance decreasing cvars like ati_npatch and ati_subdiv, right? Answer with yes or no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that also available in the options menu?
See, your question has already been answered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So ati_npatch 2.0 is default because it is the sacrosanct way of playing Natural Selection, not because noone thought it might just mess up ATI cards someday? Sure.
Computers games are played with the unspoken rule that the mechanical boundarys of the game are the limits, not any self-imposed ones. This is why they challenge the mind, and persuade you to try things noone has thought of before - to excel in a limited enviroment, and show that no matter how tightly you run those strings human ingenuinity will slowly devise new and more efficient ways of using these rules to your advantage. This mentality in computer game design only stops when players discover exploits - things that entirely break the intended spirit of the game. And only one entity has the power to decide what actually breaks this spirit, and completely remove that course of action from the available ones. They're called game developers.
Logically following, anything not removed with full force from the game is considered part of it. This is the essence of having fun in a remotely competitive game - to join in the intention of playing by the rules while attempting your best to break them, destroy them, misuse them or any other way of working them to your advantage. <i>Not to bicker over them and your mis-conceived ideas of honor, and what should and should not happen.</i> Of course the attempts at such will never cease, but at some point we should all be old enough to see this for the immature inability to lose at any terms but your own.
Maybe its a thing of age, but more likely just a thing of stubborness. Playing a game doesn't mean crafting anything to your will, making people play by your rules, instead it means learning : in this case, learning an enviroment where things fly sideways through the air and accelerate, where you have the limited ability to define what your keystrokes will perform, where movement is not determined by any realistic muscle coordination, but by the patterns your brain can envision under pressure and your left and right hand can coordinate together.
Don't like it? Well, go play with people that want to quibble and complain at eachother as well. Leave the big boys alone, because we're having one hell of a time. Thanks.