Early Lerk?

Necrosis · October 2004

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I early Lerk in pubs somtimes. It's fun.
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Yes, and I've seen people go Fade in pubs and run around camping rts and screaming at other people to build every structure under the sun for them. I bet they think they're having fun too.

Oddly, the team don't see it that way. There's a certain level of sheer incompetence that is associated with someone yelling:

"I am saving for fade in gorge hideout. I can go fade if someone drops another hive, DC, and MC."

Are they K:D worshipping 2 yr olds? Some are, some aren't. Most are, because the best players are the team players who can organise and motivate other players, as well as be able to drop a chamber or cap a hive or whatever is NEEDED. Bouncing onto a pub and going for lerk right off the bat, or screaming for upgrades, is generally the sign of the player who's found he can gas people and has decided its his job for life. ESPECIALLY if he informs noone of his decision to be team lerk for the earlygame, and/or spends his life in the MS vents.

I am in no doubt however that these people are having "fun". I myself have fun when its a nitty gritty struggle over a hive, or res, or we're doing coordinated end game xeno rushes. Clearly opinions differ.

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(isn't it kinda ridiculous that you assume there is a battle plan on a PUB) is?
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Well I hate to shock an "educated" person but yes, battle plans exist on pubs. They usually come together through necessity, and involve things like "lets all charge MS while they're weak" or "I'm going to sneak this hive up, get ready to MC in" or "K I'll stomp spam while you guys bite them down"

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Please. You need to get off your pubbing high horse. ITS A PUB.
If you want organized teamplay try a pug or scrim.
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Man, only a matter of time, out comes the pubber label. What next. Well, I suppose I can guess whats coming next. OGM SKILLZORROROZOZ, teh skillz teh buttonz ogm pubberz teh nowz nothingz.

"Its a pub" does not mean "Although I probably know better, I am entitled to be a smacktard because its just a pub". It means "Its a server thats a bit more random than I am used to, therefore I must pay more attention to what everyone else is doing".

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Oh wait, you won't because it's so much more fun to bash clanners (while being ignorant to their situation) and play with generally unskilled and immature players.
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Snore. Who's bashing clanners? Who mentioned clanners? GG Nad and his personal war on his own made up insinuations. Give it a rest or take it back to the CC blocking thread. Show some maturity.

Gecko

Angry? You still misunderstand.

Second, I hinge all decisions around experience, and plan for the worst situation. Good fade players are rare, but are saved by the fact that a fade can kill things very very quickly, and move very very fast. Fades also take a while to save for if you're a complete uncoordinated smacktard.

Lerk is easier to get to, yet so much harder to actually use properly. Please note I define properly as USEFUL area denial or team support. NOT camping a vent in MS. Now I am quite happy to personally guarantee that the vast bulk of early lerks you see on pub servers are going to be K:D loving smacktards who hide in vents and lol about how easy marines are to kill. Even at higher evolutions, these players go for upgrades devoted to getting kills, and you will be LUCKY if you can get them to umbra you.

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as I just stated, the early -good- lerk will play mostly a support clase.
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Which I totally agree with...... but the chance of it being a good lerk, right off the bat at game start, is slim. Anorexically slim.

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Youve already spent 30 rez. let you team get some.
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Which is why good lerk players spore or umbra near their teammates, or gorges web HA trains, or Onos stomp spam passing enemies so their friends get res.

The problem is that the chances of these happening are pretty slim. So plan for the worst (and most likely situation), don't make a plan hoping that the guy in the vent will actually umbra you during a base rush.

Plan for the worst and you'll rarely be disappointed <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

Nadagast · October 2004

You're wrong, a pub is not only more random, it's far less skilled and with much much much MUCH less teamplay. Yet you (hypocrite) preach how clanners should learn how to use teamwork/skill etc.

Don't make me out to be the bad guy, these are just facts.

MrBen · October 2004

Nec - We don't just make these outrageous statements because it's fun, <b>IT'S TRUE</b>. You put on a front with your long posts with your quoting and point by point replies yet you do not actaully seem to be reading what we say. You work on "they're wrong, i'm right and i'll show them why" when all you do half the time is back up what we say. If you actually freed your mind and listned to what we had to say then this'd be far easier. I don't know about anyone else but i'm getting tired of you playing the same old record.

Nada, myself, and any other clanner has done the whole pubber thing, we're as qualified as anyone to talk about teamwork on a pub. Difference is we've also done the whole clan thing and we're not just saying clan teamwork > * because we thought "hey heres a cool idea, lets lie."

TheAdj · October 2004

I pub lerk all the time, it is probably the #1 thing I like to do in pubs. I'll usually carry the team like a good fade will, as least until the end game. A good lerk will absolutely wipe the floor with most pubs, because not only do they soften the entire team up with gas, they'll also start killing marines on their own. I've literally kept entire 10+ person teams stuck in one place because they knew if they tried to push out, they'd all die because they were armorless. I don't camp vents or "lol" at marines, in fact I usually don't talk at all unless I need to say something to the team and I pick off the marines that threaten my team.

Despite common thinking, not EVERYONE on the team needs to build stuff in the first 5 minutes of the game. Some people save for fade, some go lerk, and others drop chambers, rts, and someone drops a hive. It's not "OMG RES****" because someone goes straight to fade, that's common sense that any strategist would recognize right away. Why have everyone drop RTs when a couple of people could save for the game saving unit for the aliens? To compare it to starcraft, what wins, 6 zerglings vs 6 marines and a medic, or 4 zerglings and 2 hydras vs 6 marines and a medic? Pretty certain the hydras would tear up the marines in short order, whereas the zerglings get chewed up. NS is no different, skulks die fast, whereas fades are the backbone damage dealing unit of the alien team. Not saving for them right away is LAUGHABLE, it really truly is. I hate when random pubbers chew on someone for going to fade right away, it shows their complete ignorance of how powerful that is (assuming the person doesn't die to the first group of marines he sees, which does happen on occasion). Just because someone goes for fade or lerk right away doesn't mean they worship K:D. The best players have high ratios because they kill EVERYTHING they see, and never die. If you contain the marine team, you're going to kill a lot of them. I have racked up crazy scores in pubs just trying to save the hive. I killed over 30 people in one massive hive assault a couple of weeks ago, they kept beaconing and rushing 10 people through the phase gate to hit the hive. I umbra'd and gassed until they ran out of ammo, then swooped in for the kills. Most of my team would die (skulks < shotguns), and I could either sit there and let them kill the hive, or do something about it. Now how is that in any way kill-whoring? It's not, it's saving the hive, which unless I'm mistaken is the most important thing to think about on the alien team, either saving a hive or putting up the next one.

It doesn't matter what you do on a pub, the sub-average players will still do whatever they're going to do despite what you suggest or want them to do. "Communicating wit hyour team" on a pub is pretty much a waste of time. Communicating with certain players on your team is much more effective. Anytime I pub with friends or clanmates I get one of them that's a good skulk to drop the hive, that way I know the hive will go up, and the rest to do something useful. Those initial fades need to be good fades, otherwise you are at a sizable disadvantage. If there aren't any good fades then I guess the newer ones need to do it. The whole idea here is what's better for the team, and having your best people fade is good for the team. Having an amazing lerk do it right away is good for the team. High K:D ratios for alien players generally mean they're helping out the team a lot, because each dead marine is a marine that isn't killing an RT, or slashing a fatty to death. I would love to see a game won that didn't involve a high K:D ratio for at least one player on the alien team. The marines can win by simply taking out the hive using remote weaponry that merely needs to be defended, whereas the aliens have to hit the marine base, which can within 5 seconds be filled with every marine in the game. Aliens HAVE to kill marines in order to win, that's their burden. That's why the end-game can take forever, you won't win with marines still alive. Please stop preaching about players "worshipping" K:D ratios. They don't worship them, they acquire them when playing a class that gets them by it's very nature.

jammno · October 2004

I've found that if you get adrenaline as soon as you hit hive two, then gather up 2-3 fades and assist them with spores/umbra that you can end the game really early.

Umbra (I think it's 1/3 bullets) is quite overpowered. It's like three marines are shooting at somthing, umbra makes it where it's only like two marines are shooting somthing. (Mathmatically.)

As a lerk I try to distract more than kill/death prostituting. (Lousy filter.) When I spore, I can usually keep 2-4 (Or more.) marines busy trying to hunt me down while the comm screams at them to stop chasing me. =P

kolokol · October 2004

For proof that K:D dosen't matter a dam, ive played in a game where aliens had a way better K:D ratio than marines and lost horribly. Aliens wern't even that bad were useing teamwork.

rennex · October 2004

I rather rush street to ruins with a carbine than early lerk.

TheAdj · October 2004

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Read what I wrote, then read what you wrote, and understand why what you wrote doesn't relate at all to what I wrote.

Also umbra blocks 1/2 of bullets, not 1/3.

crisano · October 2004

This thread seems rather familiar... oh yes, the CC blocking thread. Same attitudes being thrown around, more arguments of clanners vs pubbers. Necrosis, seriously, who named you the pub-appointed-defender. If you play exclusively on pubs, of course you'll have bad experiences. It's a pub, a pub is for players to do as they wish. I mean teamwork could make the gaming experience more fun, hell yes, but its a pub and it's not REQUIRED on most servers. Most people play pubs to have fun themselves, doing whatever they want whether its early lerk, OC gorge, stuff out of the ordinary and stuff that might NOT help contribute to a victory, but its their way of having fun. Maybe its not your way of having fun but that's what a pub is, more individualistic fun.

Now, if you want constant teamwork and smart players everytime you play, start joining pugs, there people tend to work together a LOT more to achieve a goal that each of them share, a victory.

As for early lerk, it's definately not cool to label them all kill **** or n00bs and whatever because they are incredibly valuable in the right hands. Hell, I've gone lerk early before and its usually either because I am bored, want to try something new, or on ns_caged, if marines relocate to double, I almost always go lerk. And yes, I camp that friggin vent and gas them everytime. Why? Because even if the commander gets armor 1, I gas them upon spawn and I gas them while they get ammo, bye bye armor 1, bye bye 3 bite kills. Half the time, I get 3 marines hanging out at their base trying to shoot me to death, and it never happens. So that means 3 less marines roaming the map, killinig my team's RTs or teammates. So don't say camping vent marine base lerk = olololol n0000b000b0b0b.

Lerks also aren't kill ****, especially in classic. Spore rarely kills the marine, lerks that try to spore, then fly in and bite the marine to death usually dies, especially if its a shotty guy, if a marine stands in a spore cloud long enough, he doesn't die from the spore but due to 1 bite from a skulks or 1 swipe from a fade. Don't judge alien classes on pubs because in the right hands, they would seem godly, in the wrong hands they can **** a whole team off.

Necrosis · October 2004

Nad, try reading what I'm saying instead of what you think I'm saying. You'll find its a more fulfilling experience than arguing with yourself.

I mean really, its the last act of the desperate man... make a big noise about how someone is saying X and hope that noone notices that the other guy didn't say anything about it at all.

Ben -

Which outrageous statement would that be then? Feel free to point out any outrageous comment I've made, so that I can adequately counter it. All I see so far is Nad replying to himself in his own little world where everyone is hunting him down with pieces of fruit.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You put on a front with your long posts with your quoting and point by point replies yet you do not actaully seem to be reading what we say.
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A front? Unfortunately the point by point debate reply is the method I was taught many years ago in school. It means people can easily see where the reply is going, as opposed to some blunt three line comment thats unrelated to the vast bulk of the prior post.

The key problem here is that some people are just making up comments in order to perpetuate some childish grudge from Z threads ago. I don't know about anyone else but I find it pretty sad that point by point replies confuse some posters, that other posters have to invent comments in order to reply, and that people will cheerfully argue with me despite the fact that what I'm saying is true.

The fact of the matter is that the vast bulk of players who lerk right at game start are going to be complete and utter smacktards. A skilled player would try to coordinate with his team, get a plan going, perhaps find 2 or 3 people with half a brain and group with them for wolfpacking or support.

A skilled player does not bounce onto a pub, decide he wants to lerk for the entire game, then hide in a vent and lol about K:D. I've played with skilled players, clan players, pubbers, newbs, you name it, and the better players usually had some sort of comment to offer the team. If the player was a "name" then we knew that they could be trusted to go fade, and they'd give results. If they bounced right into the game, found a hole, and screamed for other people to drop upgrades, then we knew they were a tard who only knew how to use ONE class, and therefore had to hide until he could evolve to it.

And Ben, if you do decide to follow up on Nad's posts, please go back and read mine again, because otherwise you'll find yourself jumping into to support a nonexistent argument.

Nada, myself, and any other clanner has done the whole pubber thing, we're as qualified as anyone to talk about teamwork on a pub. Difference is we've also done the whole clan thing and we're not just saying clan teamwork > * because we thought "hey heres a cool idea, lets lie."

TheAdj` -

And if you're read my posts you'd see several times that I've given examples of how early lerks can be handy. The key thing here is that on pubs you simply cannot be assured that some random spod who evolves to lerk at game start actually knows what he's doing.

If said player goes lerk, and doesn't communicate other than to whine about upgrades/kills/ogm how did you shoot me in teh vent/wallhax, then chances are you've picked up a smacktard.

I don't know what "common thinking" is, but among the decent pub servers you'll see players actually shouting out what they're doing - who's saving for hive, who's going fade, who's capping nodes, whats the first chamber? THAT is what sets out the skilled player from the smacktard.

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I hate when random pubbers chew on someone for going to fade right away, it shows their complete ignorance of how powerful that is (assuming the person doesn't die to the first group of marines he sees, which does happen on occasion).
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BINGO. I have personally lost count of the amount of players I've seen who go fade/lerk asap and promptly get shot up or camp vents. Solution? DON'T RELY ON EARLY LIFEFORMS TO HELP YOU. As I ALREADY SAID, early evolutions can be very beneficial, but DO NOT ROTATE A PUB STRAT AROUND THEM.

I personally hate it when a tard bounces onto a server, goes early fade, dies, and then blames the team for his death at the hands of a marine train. Or who hides in a vent and blames his team for the entire loss. Or one of a billion other smacktard things to do. Does this mean I KNOW every person who plays in silence (punctuated by whining) is a tard? No. However I have to ASSUME they are, otherwise I could make a tactical error. Rushing into MS with a lerk, because you assume he's going to umbra you, is an often fatal mistake.

Does anyone call hive defence kill whoring? No. But that doesnt mean every alien player who rushes to a hive is doing so in the interest of winning the game. In fact one needs only look through the forums now to see the growing number of comments regarding a "good K:D", and its pervading the pub circuit where players will rush for a higher evo and boast of their K:D when Classic has and always will be a team game.

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"Communicating wit hyour team" on a pub is pretty much a waste of time.
Communicating with certain players on your team is much more effective.
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I'd have to disagree. Its also funny that using teamsay generally means you ARE communicating with your team. It also varies on how one defines communication. Sitting in a hole whining for DCs (as a lot of people do) is not communication. They're whining until they get their DCs. Then they find something new to whine for. PLEASE NOTE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHINING FOR DCS AND ASKING FOR DCS.

Anytime I pub I make sure someone has volunteered for hive duty. If noone speaks up, then I do it myself. That way the team doesn't suffer.

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High K:D ratios for alien players generally mean they're helping out the team a lot, because each dead marine is a marine that isn't killing an RT, or slashing a fatty to death.
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Thats a bit of a sweeping generalisation right there. You need to take into account game length. I would agree that the more deaths and kills there are, the more stuff is being DONE, but that doesn't necessarily mean the RIGHT stuff is being done. But thats largely beside the point, having high numbers and not being concerned about it is a long distance from dedicating your game to K:D.

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Please stop preaching about players "worshipping" K:D ratios. They don't worship them, they acquire them when playing a class that gets them by it's very nature.
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You need to understand the difference between what you're talking about, and what I'm talking about. I'm talking about dedicated smacktards who camp vents, or remote locations, pick off a few marines, lose the game, and then say "ogm you all suck lolol i have 25 kills and 1 death olololzzz". I am NOT talking about people who teamplay exceptionally well and then at the end of it happen to have a good score.

Complaining about decent, skilled teamplayers is a pretty pointless thing to do, you know. Thats why I'm talking about tards.

crisano -

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This thread seems rather familiar... oh yes, the CC blocking thread. Same attitudes being thrown around, more arguments of clanners vs pubbers.
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Wake up and smell the coffee, cris. The only person making it c v p is Nad. My comments have been limited to "in a pub server, don't <b>rely</b> on people who evolve early to save the game.". Only person making a big thing of it is Nad, who is creating his own argument yet again.

As I've said several times already, read what I'm saying before reading a 3 line reply which has NOTHING to do with anything I've stated. It'll save you a lot of hassle and is handy for jury service.

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As for early lerk, it's definately not cool to label them all kill **** or n00bs and whatever
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And funnily enough noone has.....

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So don't say camping vent marine base lerk = olololol n0000b000b0b0b.
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No I think I will say it, because camping a vent in marine spawn for the DURATION OF THE GAME, come relocates, sieges, hives under attack, acts of admin, whatever, is a DUMB thing to do. A lerk is so much more useful when it is SUPPORTING people, not camping some obsolete corner of the map that's devoid of life.

Moving between vents, following the team, acting as a distraction, these are GOOD things to do. Not camping the same vent for half an hour with nothing but yourself in a 10 mile radius.

RedI · October 2004

Early lerks were always good when they had spike shooter. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /> BRING IT BACK!!!

crisano · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Oct 19 2004, 03:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> No I think I will say it, because camping a vent in marine spawn for the DURATION OF THE GAME, come relocates, sieges, hives under attack, acts of admin, whatever, is a DUMB thing to do. A lerk is so much more useful when it is SUPPORTING people, not camping some obsolete corner of the map that's devoid of life.

Moving between vents, following the team, acting as a distraction, these are GOOD things to do. Not camping the same vent for half an hour with nothing but yourself in a 10 mile radius.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Perhaps that is your opinion but just because you say it doesn't mean you are correct. Perhaps you see it as DUMB but everytime it has happened, the other team always comment about how that 'DUMB' vent lerk basically took away any chance of a marine victory. And being devoid of life, how is gassing their base when marines are there devoid of life? Marines on pubs constantly spawn in and when they spawn in, they get their armor stripped immediately. Then you have a few who won't leave base, despite the commander's insistance because of that one lerk, and you still call that lerk dumb?

As Ben has stated, you think that what you say is absolutely correct when sometimes it obviously isn't. You should try looking at things from different points of views than your own.

TheAdj · October 2004

So you're crying about idiots that join pubs and die or generally do nothing. Welcome to how competitive players view most pubbers. They do worthless things that don't help the team in any way, shape, or form. As for communication, 1 way communication is about a helpful as talking to a wall. Communication generally means two way talk. Using team_say and giving info doesn't mean anyone on your team reads and or will respond to it. How many times in a pub have you said "GUYS IN CARGO", and 5 minutes later when the marines FINALLY get a tf up and upgrade it, the team finally decides "Oh **** they're in cargo, lets go save fusion hive", it's too late? Many pubbers are totally off in their own little world playing, and won't respond to anything at all. Nothing you can do about this, and I admit that many people that go lerk right away are pretty useless. Many pubs I'm in start off with 1-3 other lerks besides myself, and within 5 minutes, guranteed, all the other lerks are dead besides myself. Not much you can do about people that waste res like that.

Nadagast · October 2004

I'm so sorry for continuing the argument from previously? Is that a bad thing? Should I be apologizing? I don't think so <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

jammno · October 2004

Are you sure it's 1/2? I remmeber it being 1/2, but then a patch came out that made it 1/3. Was it changed back?

mirrodin · October 2004

In my twisted mind the lerk is a support class. Early lerk spamming gas can bring down the marine hp that one skulk can kill two instead of one. Also the tanalizing lerk might cause the marine to fire at it (regen ftw!) thus less bullets to waste attmepting to hit skulks.

NINJA EDITZ: I though umbra was 1/3, perhaps we could get a dev in to tell us?

j3st · October 2004

yes i just hate it when marines camp in base looking upward in ms vent in eclipse...they just love the lerk so much that they don't want to go out capping rts instead <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Oct 19 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The fact of the matter is that the vast bulk of players who lerk right at game start are going to be complete and utter smacktards. A skilled player would try to coordinate with his team, get a plan going, perhaps find 2 or 3 people with half a brain and group with them for wolfpacking or support.

A skilled player does not bounce onto a pub, decide he wants to lerk for the entire game, then hide in a vent and lol about K:D. I've played with skilled players, clan players, pubbers, newbs, you name it, and the better players usually had some sort of comment to offer the team. If the player was a "name" then we knew that they could be trusted to go fade, and they'd give results. If they bounced right into the game, found a hole, and screamed for other people to drop upgrades, then we knew they were a tard who only knew how to use ONE class, and therefore had to hide until he could evolve to it.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I agree with that point and I belive most do. but...

My original question was based on the fact that the early lerk, would be good, and also be a team player. I belive most of us know that a non team player is pretty much useless.

(I play on a server that slaps, kicks, bans non team players, Consiquently we are still full and get a higher amount of team players and higher skilled players. sometime its almost like a 10vs10 clan match. The server welcomes new players, as long as they listen)

Dont get me wrong, but bringing up the point that a useless player going lerk and being a useless lerk is useless. seems slightly repetive.

Now that you have been assigned <span style='color:orange'>"defender of deh pubs!"</span> LOL (take it with stride please.) You should try and educate the masses of the pubbers who do not read these forums. To use more team play. Ive noticed it takes the avarage person to reach a consouse level of understanding of how NS works about 2-3 months. playing maybe 2 hours a day. How ever in a better enviorment were they are scanning for as much info as possible. maybe 10 days. of 2 hours. To get the basics down, and you use a teacher prob takes about 2 hours.

Acidophilus · October 2004

I have the urge to early lerk right now..

Rather than early res gorge.

MrBen · October 2004

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' />

jammno · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Oct 20 2004, 07:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Someone needs to make a better lerk gif <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Nadagast · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 19 2004, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> sometime its almost like a 10vs10 clan match.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
no. just no.

Grendel · October 2004

If the resource model made any sense, a 10v10 clan match would actually be pretty cool. But I digress.

Early Lerk on pubs = win.

I always Lerk and always do it early, when the marines crappy armour means that they'll have to mainline medpacks just to chase after me.

Besides which, the best time to be biting into the Frontiersmen's resource flow is at the start, when they have little money and many pressing purchases to make. Careful but agressive sporing can eat up 30 res worth of marine cash in no time. And a shotgun is FA use against a decent Lerk.

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Oct 20 2004, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 19 2004, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> sometime its almost like a 10vs10 clan match. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
no. just no. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
yha your right, a little bit of a stretch there.
I what I mean is. Where both teams are trying thier best to win.

Necrosis · October 2004

Ok folks, bust out your tea/coffee and rich tea/chocolate digestives.

Settle in.

Cris -

If you read what I'm typing, you'll see I'm talking about really atrociously bad lerks who camp vents with little to no strategic use. Pretty much every MS vent is out of sight of where the IPs usually go. So the lerk camps it up, spams a bit of spore, tries to get some kills, and effectively is a wasted player. As for areas devoid of life, we're talking vents miles from any frontline activity, or a marine base which has been empty because every marine is pg-ing out to attack a hive. Its not hard to sit in a vent but its bloody tricky to sit in a good vent and actually contribute to the game. I mean seriously, camp the MS vent on Eclipse for an exercise in futility. The lerk doesn't stop anything, and yet players, smacktards we're talking here, still persist in rushing to that vent and sporing.

If you'd read my other posts you'll also see that I agree that a good lerk player can have a significant contribution to an NS game. NOWHERE am I denying that.

I don't see us having any real difference of opinion here chief, from what I read we're singing to the same song sheet.

Adj -

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Welcome to how competitive players view most pubbers.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

This is not a c v p issue, please don't bring it up because you're only feeding Nad. I'm happy to counter your comments but please keep them to the context of tards vs people with a bit of wit.

I can see you're agreeing with a lot of what I'm saying regarding 1 way communication, ie making demands or giving pointman info. Many players, from all communities, races, and creeds, are absolutely incapable of interpreting and acting on the needs of their teammembers "on the fly".

I myself am guilty of it - I go gorge even when I really should have went fade. Why? Because I know I'm a better contributor as a gorge than I am as a fade. Sure, I can kill stuff as a fade, I can fly about and I can do most of the fade's role, but I am a gorge par excellance. I can do gorge stuff most people dream about.

I think the same thing happens to other players, they get tunnel vision. I have to be lerk! I have to be fade! I don't care what happens! You can spot these players because they demand that everyone else provides them with what they need to perform. They're BAD players. A good player turns himself to any role, fits into the team seamlessly

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Many pubs I'm in start off with 1-3 other lerks besides myself, and within 5 minutes, guranteed, all the other lerks are dead besides myself. Not much you can do about people that waste res like that.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Total agreement. Sheer total agreement. And its what I'm trying to get across to the group - the fact that the bulk of game-start lerks are complete and utter rejects. They cannot do a single thing. Yep, we can't do much about them, so I say neither rely nor trust the early lerk. Different if its a player whose actions show he's not a tard. Different if its a guy who you know is good. Different if its a team game and you all have set roles. Different, generally, if its someone who communicates two-way, because communication is the keystone to teamwork.

Gecko -

I totally agree that a good teamplaying earlygame lerk is invaluable. I'm just wary of people taking that statement as carte blanche to go lerk at game start and mistakenly think that by dying in 1 minute they've actually done some good.

<span style='color:orange'>I AM TEH PUB DEFENDOR! OGM PHEAR MY LACK OF TAGZORZOZOZ!!11</span>

Meh, I say it with a smile, I should put it on a tshirt, haha. My custom title is assured.

Fundamentally tho I see here that all of us agree on the core of this thread, its just I'm waving the reality hammer and telling people to be wary of tards, heh.

crisano · October 2004

I'm sure anyone who is reading these Strategy forums and/or posting in them have seen tardz at work first hand and are trying to get information from others who could provide them so that they themselves don't become tardz.

TheAdj · October 2004

I think it revolves around competitive player thinking. When I see another competitive player, I know they understand the game. If things are going bad on aliens, I expect them to adapt with me. The other day I was playing with a couple of other clanners on a big pub on aliens. Our team was worthless, so we had to do most of the work. I early lerked, raped the entire marine team until suddenly they all came out with HMGs. Another one was fade, and I called out their movement on the way to processing (hera, vent hive and data building). We both slow them down, another clanners gets ready and drops MCs when the hive finishes. All the while our team ignores the marines and runs around doing pretty much nothing, they didn't even hit RTs. Us 3 then single-handedly held off an entire marine force of HA, JPs, and about 3 TFs worth of electrification, sieges, turrets, and mines. Eventually we died and couldn't get back in time, so we lost. The point of this was that competitive players understand what's going on, and those that don't are the exception, NOT the rule. I died twice as lerk to mass GL spam and Sieges, and I dropped chambers we lost when I spawned, went back to lerk, and helped out the clan fade. The other guy got on nodes for a while and took most of them down, and we almost pushed them back, until the fade died to a skulk that decided to sit in the middle of the hallway, jump up and down, and parasite a TF at least 6 times. Amazing. Pubbers that get the game are the exception, NOT the rule, which is why nada is harping on about it.

Swordy · October 2004

Take maps like ns_tanith

the cargo rt area next to the fusion reactor hive. marines are known to try and take that position often, as it has a direct sieging point on the hive and if turrets are put up can cover a lot of ground.

But it is easy prey for a lerk. With many ways to escape, and get in - the lerk has an advantage. The lerk can also gas the entrance points for marines, which usually slows them down.

The porblems with early lerks in my opinion is that they cannot gas very much, due to lack of adrenaline and flight halts back as it uses that necessary bit of adrenaline.

However in the right place, lerks can be the ebst thing since sliced Gorgey bread.

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj` @ Oct 20 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> until the fade died to a skulk that decided to sit in the middle of the hallway, jump up and down, and parasite a TF at least 6 times. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
WOW. thats actualy pretty funny. sad too

Crispy · October 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Oct 18 2004, 01:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Please bear in mind a useful Lerk can end with an awful K:D, simply because he did his job correctly. He denied the marines advancement.

If he gases 3 marines in front of them, and they turn back, he achieved exactly what he needed. He stopped those marines going where they wanted to go. Even if they then go around, they wasted time, and time is your <b>most</b> valuable resource in a game of NS.

- Shockwave  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Most valuable piece of information I've seen in this thread.

Early Lerk?

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