give darkati some butter, 'cuz he's on a roll. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
darkati, i would suggest adding some "wires" to the computer room, make it look more "Technical" and see if you can lower the brightness on the monitors. It looks like they can give light to the whole united states <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
School really rains on my mapping parade, haven't had nearly as much time to work on Vargus but here's one new shot of a work-in-progress hallway leading to the "Radar Transmitting" Hive room.
P.S. Yes, I know their is a broken brush on the right side, don't bother pointing that out, like I say this is a work-in-progress hallway. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Very rough, still.
<!--QuoteBegin-Belgarion+Sep 28 2004, 04:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Belgarion @ Sep 28 2004, 04:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but rough in a good way. i likes it a lot. screw school. call in sick and map for us. .. we love you?
:edit: woo! 700 posts. i'm becoming one of *those* people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Belg, what is that in your sig? One of your maps? Looks sexeh whatever it is.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrRadicalEd+Sep 28 2004, 04:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrRadicalEd @ Sep 28 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh man, Dark, that is lookin' good <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why, thank you, kind sir, I wish I had more time to work on it.
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+Sep 28 2004, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Sep 28 2004, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Belg, what is that in your sig? One of your maps? Looks sexeh whatever it is.
~ DarkATi<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's because it IS sexeh. Probably the sexiest room i've ever made, hence sigage. I could never make anything else after that though. One mega-burst of creative genious and my baloon deflated. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33085&view=findpost&p=864466' target='_blank'>Post your pics Post of the water hive</a> you can see what's in the water on the previous page of pics.
I think your map is coming along really nicely though. It's got a fairly unique style to it, or at least a variation of two styles that you've melded together quite nicely. The texture scheme of ns_nothing (one of my 3 or so favorite ns maps) and the lighting of .. well.. Blueman's ns_nirvana (one of the other three). i think nirvana has the best lighting in an ns map, so any comparison i make to ns_nirvana should be taken as a compliment. As i said before, call in sick tomorrow and map. Or map whenever you feel most creative. Gotta cultivate the creative juices!
Well, you seem to be doing a good job keeping the lighting varied and the geometry interesting. You've inadvertantly captured the good parts of ns_nothing's style and used them to make a map that's developing quite well.
One thing: Make sure you don't use the same floor texture in the entire map. Just because it works doesn't mean it wouldn't be good to find a way to vary the flooring. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Question: Have you created a layout already, or are you designing as you go?
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Sep 28 2004, 06:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Sep 28 2004, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, you seem to be doing a good job keeping the lighting varied and the geometry interesting. You've inadvertantly captured the good parts of ns_nothing's style and used them to make a map that's developing quite well.
One thing: Make sure you don't use the same floor texture in the entire map. Just because it works doesn't mean it wouldn't be good to find a way to vary the flooring. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Question: Have you created a layout already, or are you designing as you go? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I always design as I go and thank you for the floor tip, I never really thought about it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I have made boxes in VHE to signify where Hives will be... see attached... and note the sizes of the boxes mean nothing, those are just the approximate locations of the hives.
Here's that hallway with just those few minor bugs fixed, merged a few vertices, aligned a few textures better and although you can hardly see it, I added a particle system of dripping water from that golden pipe.
Here's what I just started on, will finish tomorrow I hope. Very plain, no details added, any ideas are welcome but don't bother criticizing it too hard, since it's just a simple room with some env_lasers ATM.
Here's that hallway with just those few minor bugs fixed, merged a few vertices, aligned a few textures better and although you can hardly see it, I added a particle system of dripping water from that golden pipe.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it was fun trying to find the water droplets. kinda like a "find the hidden cokes" kind of thing. nice work. the mapping that is. not the puzzle.
Ruh-roh. If the hives are there, is MS going to be towards the middle of the map? Surely we all learned the hard lessons from ns_delta about clever layouts?
Edit: And by the way, Dark, whatever happened to ns_christmas? I seem to recall you saying you were going to release it for the 2004 holidays... Don't make me go find the thread and bump it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Sep 28 2004, 10:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Sep 28 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ruh-roh. If the hives are there, is MS going to be towards the middle of the map? Surely we all learned the hard lessons from ns_delta about clever layouts?
Edit: And by the way, Dark, whatever happened to ns_christmas? I seem to recall you saying you were going to release it for the 2004 holidays... Don't make me go find the thread and bump it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I did say that, yes but alas, the world is not just nor 100% factual. I am planniing on making ns_christmas available this holiday season <b>IF</b> I find the time. You may have to settle for Vargus. O_o
Yeah, be really careful about maps with Marine Start centrally located between the 3 hives. They don't tend to work unless you do some REALLY clever stuff with elevation changes and vent networks and the like.
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Sep 29 2004, 12:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Sep 29 2004, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah, be really careful about maps with Marine Start centrally located between the 3 hives. They don't tend to work unless you do some REALLY clever stuff with elevation changes and vent networks and the like. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Could you elaborate more on "why"?
because two things generally (read: always) happen:
1) two of the hives are reasonably close to each other but the third one is VERY far away. or, all of the 3 hives are very far away from each other, thus leading to...
2) marines have a short walk to all of the hives and rt's, and the aliens have a long walk to everywhere, or almost everywhere.
if ns was so stupidly alien biased, what it is not, these maps could just work.
as tyr said the only way to do it is to have well-thought out elevation changes and twisting corridors. but no one is good enough to make a layout like that, that it would be as balanced as the "normal" maps.
Could you tone down the red in the latest shot. Now, if you look at the edge where red and white light meet, I think it just doesn't look right. I'd prefer it being smoothed.
I tried to post this yesterday but the stupid Barcelona internet cafe cut me off with a "you have little time left" warning 10 seconds beforehand.
The reason that centrally located MS maps are harder to tweak is because the MS is in the middle of the map (Duh! -yes but think about it). When Aliens want to get to a Hive on the other side of the map they take the shortest route, which usually goes straight through the middle of the map (not to mention the fact that most maps have a lot of RTs in the central <i>no man's land</i>).
Obviously as a gorge or other class on low HP you don't want to run into Marines when traversing the map so there must be a VERY good web of tunnels negotiating the center of the map. These must also be gorge-friendly, and either:
1. Unbuildable for marines (eg water, or small crawl-spaces) 2. Have their entances/exits located far from the center of the map.
However you must also make sure that these corridors are accessible by Marines and not too biased towards the Alien team.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Sep 29 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Sep 29 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that would actually be quite interesting. underground tunnels with water in them between hives. kinda like altair? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Gets idea*
This is really upsetting news though, I wanted Vargus to go official or at least be a reasonable candidate. :\ Well, maybe I'll be the first to get a centrally located MS map officially in.
Oh and what's the name of that water-dripping wav/mp3, they used it in Bast, down from the elevator, where the rt is now, with the water below the walkwau right by refinery, it has/had a dripping water particle system and a cool sound tht went wth it but I can't find that sound. Anyone, help meh?
Delta was going to be the first official map with a central MS, but the gameplay realities kept it from becoming so. Sad, because it was a beautiful map with lots of nice details, a hovertank, and an awesome RR secret. The problem is that central locations are always good for attacking from. Why is a relocation to generator on nothing so strong? Because it's central to the map, and whatever move the aliens make, you can have marines there to counter it.
Perhaps you can pull it off if the ways to the hives from the middle are very twisty-turny and have several slow moving doors and elevation changes and so on, and then the routes from hive to hive are a lot more direct and quick. Res placement is going to be a real pain though. I wish you luck in your quest. Godspeed, soldier!
now that i think about it, u dont even need the water in the tunnels ...
but you'll have to start working on the layout as soon as possible, if you just keep making rooms and hallways you'll meet a dead end pretty soon, or at least come up with a map that has "interesting" gameplay.
ladders, ramps, and lifts all make problems for marines if you need to make it difficult to travel around. a straight shot vent betweent the left and right hives would help.
maybe just a path that goes from left to right hive but goes below the ms would be good too.
im not really sure. but making MS central wont help you get official. then again its worth a shot for something unique.
I wasn't trying to discourage you, my original plan for a map could have worked, but I was just too n00b to realise it.
A centrally located MS can work, it'll just take a bit more playtesting and a lot more planning. Maybe if you made it so that the marines had to negotiate long tunnels stemming out from MS (obviously not long and straight and boring, but you get the idea). This would mean that the center was still cut off from the rest of the map, you just need to create tunnels from one side to the other which don't conincide with marines too much.
Think about a "Cluedo" board, you can go from one corner right across to the other, without having to go through the center. The problem comes with making RTs equidistant, (although they don't neccessarily have to be equidistant, if they are too close just make them harder to hold, eg bilebombable underground access tunnels only accessible vie hives, yeah that oughta do the trick).
Comments
darkati, i would suggest adding some "wires" to the computer room, make it look more "Technical" and see if you can lower the brightness on the monitors. It looks like they can give light to the whole united states <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The map is looking good. This might turn into something very nicely playable and interesting.
P.S. Yes, I know their is a broken brush on the right side, don't bother pointing that out, like I say this is a work-in-progress hallway. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Very rough, still.
~ DarkATi
~ DarkATi
:edit: woo! 700 posts. i'm becoming one of *those* people.
:edit: woo! 700 posts. i'm becoming one of *those* people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Belg, what is that in your sig? One of your maps? Looks sexeh whatever it is.
~ DarkATi
Why, thank you, kind sir, I wish I had more time to work on it.
~ DarkATi
the pipe in the roof. the roof itself needs some work, though im not sure what it lacks exactly. maybe its too white. but the pipe has to go.
also the monitors seem out of place. maybe if you made them less bright and more "into the wall" instead of sticking out like that.
the crate is interesting but since i dont have any better solution at hand i guess ill let it pass for now.
~ DarkATi<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's because it IS sexeh. Probably the sexiest room i've ever made, hence sigage. I could never make anything else after that though. One mega-burst of creative genious and my baloon deflated. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33085&view=findpost&p=864466' target='_blank'>Post your pics Post of the water hive</a> you can see what's in the water on the previous page of pics.
I think your map is coming along really nicely though. It's got a fairly unique style to it, or at least a variation of two styles that you've melded together quite nicely. The texture scheme of ns_nothing (one of my 3 or so favorite ns maps) and the lighting of .. well.. Blueman's ns_nirvana (one of the other three). i think nirvana has the best lighting in an ns map, so any comparison i make to ns_nirvana should be taken as a compliment. As i said before, call in sick tomorrow and map. Or map whenever you feel most creative. Gotta cultivate the creative juices!
Music is so influential in my mapping. Good music = good mapping.
~ DarkATi
One thing: Make sure you don't use the same floor texture in the entire map. Just because it works doesn't mean it wouldn't be good to find a way to vary the flooring. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Question: Have you created a layout already, or are you designing as you go?
One thing: Make sure you don't use the same floor texture in the entire map. Just because it works doesn't mean it wouldn't be good to find a way to vary the flooring. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Question: Have you created a layout already, or are you designing as you go? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always design as I go and thank you for the floor tip, I never really thought about it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I have made boxes in VHE to signify where Hives will be... see attached... and note the sizes of the boxes mean nothing, those are just the approximate locations of the hives.
~ DarkATi
Here's that hallway with just those few minor bugs fixed, merged a few vertices, aligned a few textures better and although you can hardly see it, I added a particle system of dripping water from that golden pipe.
~ DarkATi
~ DarkATi
Here's that hallway with just those few minor bugs fixed, merged a few vertices, aligned a few textures better and although you can hardly see it, I added a particle system of dripping water from that golden pipe.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it was fun trying to find the water droplets. kinda like a "find the hidden cokes" kind of thing. nice work. the mapping that is. not the puzzle.
Edit: And by the way, Dark, whatever happened to ns_christmas? I seem to recall you saying you were going to release it for the 2004 holidays... Don't make me go find the thread and bump it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: And by the way, Dark, whatever happened to ns_christmas? I seem to recall you saying you were going to release it for the 2004 holidays... Don't make me go find the thread and bump it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did say that, yes but alas, the world is not just nor 100% factual. I am planniing on making ns_christmas available this holiday season <b>IF</b> I find the time. You may have to settle for Vargus. O_o
~ DarkATi
Could you elaborate more on "why"?
I like my centrally located Marine Start. :\
~ DarkATi
1) two of the hives are reasonably close to each other but the third one is VERY far away. or, all of the 3 hives are very far away from each other, thus leading to...
2) marines have a short walk to all of the hives and rt's, and the aliens have a long walk to everywhere, or almost everywhere.
if ns was so stupidly alien biased, what it is not, these maps could just work.
as tyr said the only way to do it is to have well-thought out elevation changes and twisting corridors. but no one is good enough to make a layout like that, that it would be as balanced as the "normal" maps.
The reason that centrally located MS maps are harder to tweak is because the MS is in the middle of the map (Duh! -yes but think about it). When Aliens want to get to a Hive on the other side of the map they take the shortest route, which usually goes straight through the middle of the map (not to mention the fact that most maps have a lot of RTs in the central <i>no man's land</i>).
Obviously as a gorge or other class on low HP you don't want to run into Marines when traversing the map so there must be a VERY good web of tunnels negotiating the center of the map. These must also be gorge-friendly, and either:
1. Unbuildable for marines (eg water, or small crawl-spaces)
2. Have their entances/exits located far from the center of the map.
However you must also make sure that these corridors are accessible by Marines and not too biased towards the Alien team.
At least, that's what I think...
*Gets idea*
This is really upsetting news though, I wanted Vargus to go official or at least be a reasonable candidate. :\ Well, maybe I'll be the first to get a centrally located MS map officially in.
Oh and what's the name of that water-dripping wav/mp3, they used it in Bast, down from the elevator, where the rt is now, with the water below the walkwau right by refinery, it has/had a dripping water particle system and a cool sound tht went wth it but I can't find that sound. Anyone, help meh?
~ DarkATi
Perhaps you can pull it off if the ways to the hives from the middle are very twisty-turny and have several slow moving doors and elevation changes and so on, and then the routes from hive to hive are a lot more direct and quick. Res placement is going to be a real pain though. I wish you luck in your quest. Godspeed, soldier!
~ DarkATi
but you'll have to start working on the layout as soon as possible, if you just keep making rooms and hallways you'll meet a dead end pretty soon, or at least come up with a map that has "interesting" gameplay.
maybe just a path that goes from left to right hive but goes below the ms would be good too.
im not really sure. but making MS central wont help you get official. then again its worth a shot for something unique.
A centrally located MS can work, it'll just take a bit more playtesting and a lot more planning. Maybe if you made it so that the marines had to negotiate long tunnels stemming out from MS (obviously not long and straight and boring, but you get the idea). This would mean that the center was still cut off from the rest of the map, you just need to create tunnels from one side to the other which don't conincide with marines too much.
Think about a "Cluedo" board, you can go from one corner right across to the other, without having to go through the center. The problem comes with making RTs equidistant, (although they don't neccessarily have to be equidistant, if they are too close just make them harder to hold, eg bilebombable underground access tunnels only accessible vie hives, yeah that oughta do the trick).