Wheeee is getting the idea I'm trying to make. In the game, a marine fires, hits the Ultralisk once or twice before it gets into melee, then two hits and hes dead. In real life, he'd be sliced in half in one hit, or knocked flying, or stamped on, or barged out of the way. You get the idea. So, from your argument of using them as they are in the game, which one do you choose? <i>Realistically</i> (which is the point I'm trying to make) he'd be dead in one hit. Its a game balancing point that he survives, just that its a game balancing point that an Ultralisk can take on a tank (most likely). You are picking and choosing which aspects on the game you keep in real life, just as we are.
Basically, if we take them as they are in the game, we lose. If we add some realism, we stand a chance.
So if we cant instagib them from hundreds of miles away, we lose? Thats some good outta the box thinking there. I dont remember needing to one-hit-kill the German's best unit to win WW2.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Sep 13 2004, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Sep 13 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont remember needing to one-hit-kill the German's best unit to win WW2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, the tiger tank's armor was so thick and it's turret was so powerful it was <i>the</i> tank to be in in WW2. The only way that it could be defeated was by a far quicker, smaller target at close range. The Tiger's turret moved so slowly, at close range it couldn't keep up with it's target, allowing the target to fire at the space between the turret and the chassis's armor plating... Which would be easilly peirced, killing and/or severly wounding all occupants within.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So if we cant instagib them from hundreds of miles away, we lose?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes... Or we could find a hole in their armor, like the Tiger tank had, and exploit it.
You're point about the Tiger tank is exactly what Monkey was saying. Just because one tank shell won't obliterate an Ultraliks doesnt mean we immediately lose. The Ultra has to have gaps in its armor if it wants to move anywhere.
Also about the marines not dying in one hit, they are wearing incredibly large (by todays standards) suits of super dense armor. That's not an awesometastic excuse but it's not like they're running into battle with t-shirts.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Sep 13 2004, 03:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Sep 13 2004, 03:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You're point about the Tiger tank is exactly what Monkey was saying. Just because one tank shell won't obliterate an Ultraliks doesnt mean we immediately lose. The Ultra has to have gaps in its armor if it wants to move anywhere.
Also about the marines not dying in one hit, they are wearing incredibly large (by todays standards) suits of super dense armor. That's not an awesometastic excuse but it's not like they're running into battle with t-shirts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> conservation of momentum, my friend. Even if the suit could withstand a hit from an ultralisk, the marine would have all of his bones crushed/broken by the impact.
The Ultralisk slices, it doesnt crush. The blades are too sharp to crush. The first strike could go through the suit, and the second through the person itself. Again, I never said it was a great idea.
Also, if the suit doesnt get crushed on the first impact, then naturally the person inside it wouldn't get crushed. You can hit a fridge with a bat but that doesnt mean the milk carton inside will be disturbed by it.
EDIT: ^horrible example. A bearsuit would be a better one. You can swing a wrecking ball into one of those and the person inside is fine.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Sep 13 2004, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Sep 13 2004, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Ultralisk slices, it doesnt crush. The blades are too sharp to crush. The first strike could go through the suit, and the second through the person itself. Again, I never said it was a great idea.
Also, if the suit doesnt get crushed on the first impact, then naturally the person inside it wouldn't get crushed. You can hit a fridge with a bat but that doesnt mean the milk carton inside will be disturbed by it.
EDIT: ^horrible example. A bearsuit would be a better one. You can swing a wrecking ball into one of those and the person inside is fine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"A system of airbags that work like those in cars is located between the outer layer and his skin is, and the legs, arms, and chest can withstand 4,200 pounds per square foot (something akin to a nice bear hug). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um, an ultralisk is a lot more than 2 tons. it's bigger than a friggin elephant. something that massive, ramming you at that speed (assuming they"re as fast as zerglings) would be more like hitting a milk carton with a car. the milk would be disturbed.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Sep 13 2004, 07:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Sep 13 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm assuming that bearsuit technology would have advanced somewhat in the many many years ahead of us StarCraft takes place in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> how would zerglings be able to own marines then?
This is seriously not our job, but that of Blizzards, but here I go.
Read Maveric's post about the Tiger. Zerglings are small, agile, and have many pointy things. Their relatively smaller claws would mean they are going for a more piercing action, rather than the slicing of the Ultralisk. As well, their small size and speed would allow them to aim for the marine armor's weaker spots (joints again, just like the Tiger) with relative ease. Compare this to the Ultralisk, who just breaks the marine with brute force.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Sep 13 2004, 07:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Sep 13 2004, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. The marine in question couldn't, in all honesty, shoot for ****. IIRC he didnt even hit the zergling.
2. Zerglings don't crush, they pierce. No airbags or cushioning would protect against that, naturally. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> marine armor would naturally be designed against piercing weapons, since they use projectiles, and mankind has always designed weapons to kill each other rather than aliens. so your argument falls on its face.
Doesnt that just prove how sharp zerg weaponry is? Also with melee you can be much more precise than with shooting from hundreds of feet away (obviously) allowing the zergling to take advantage of the armor's joints and other weak areas as Monkey just pointed out.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Sep 13 2004, 10:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Sep 13 2004, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Doesnt that just prove how sharp zerg weaponry is? Also with melee you can be much more precise than with shooting from hundreds of feet away (obviously) allowing the zergling to take advantage of the armor's joints and other weak areas as Monkey just pointed out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that doesn't have anything to do with crushing damage.
From what I've seen a zergling will jump on someone and just stab them to death, not once, but until there down and screaming, bleeding, then finally dead, and also stab them repeatidly in the same area.
I saw that during the intro of BW, the guy died quite gruesomely on the ground while a zergling stabbed him in a frenzy and then a fire bat had to kill the man and the zergling.
It'd take about 3 stabs in a single spot of the armor to get through, and this is with the zergling trying to wrestle you to the ground so your gun is useless.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Sep 13 2004, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Sep 13 2004, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that doesn't have anything to do with crushing damage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol what? I just said that the zergling wouldnt crush the marine at all! They're the size of dogs! In fact I remember vividly saying "Zerglings don't crush, they pierce." So naturally, no, that post wouldn't have had anything to do with crushing damage.
Shoot, I like the Tiger analogy if their body armor is getting pierced that easily (going by cinematics here...), then we are ****, save a bullet for yourself kinda deal. The Ulra is a freaking Biological Tank, I beleive that massed volleys of antitank cannons would kill them Ultras would send marines (from SC) sailing like bowling pins, if real life physics are used, unless those are some heavy **** suits (pretty sure I saw one in cutscene flipping a tank, not really sure) The solution? keep them at bay, away, and outside of melee range, where theyre dealiest
guys just saying heres dl on how smart zerg units are [got this information from starcraftd6 home page] drones[ Drones show some signs of independent intelligence, necessary to problem solve when extracting resources or choosing the best place to pupate into a new structure. ] Overlord[ Overlords serve as local proxies for the Overmind and the Cerebrates, giving commands to larva and overseeing the functions of a Creep colony. They also serve as field commanders for Zerg units in battles, hovering behind the front lines and directing the Zerg onslaught] Zerglings[Zerglings prefer to move in packs, much like Terran wolves. They show a wide range of social behavior, including dominance displays, play and territoriality. They rarely attack alone and the sighting of one Zergling is a good indication that a much stronger force awaits just around the corner. Hydralists[ Highly intelligent and terrible to behold, the Hydralisk razes creatures and structures alike with its armor-piercing spines and claws.] Ultralisk[ Ultralisks were derived from a massive, but peaceful, animal eons ago. Now, these lumbering beasts serve as the heavy-armor corps for the Swarm. With their thick armor and humongous scythes, they withstand huge amounts of punishment and lay waste to their enemies. They are still fairly stupid and must usually be controlled by an Overlord.] Mutalisk[ Mutalisks are the huge, winged nightmares that make up the Zerg's primary air force. These screaming, clawed terrors may project a symbiotic lifeform they culture within their gut. This worm shoots forward towards the enemy, exploding on impact and sending the symbiote's armor-piercing spines in all directions. Mutalisks work well in small groups, much as a Terran squad of fighter pilots would. Mutalisks also function as well in space as in an atmosphere and have no apparent need to breathe or feed upon the Creep] [Guardian Guardians are an evolved form of the Mutalisk, developed by the Zerg to counter ground troops from the air. It's heavy armor lets it withstand more damage than its predecessor, but it is slowere and less versatile. Guardians appear to be less intelligent than Mutalisks as well, but this may be due to their larger, slower bulk] Scourge[ Scourge are relatively small, bat-like creatures that hone in on enemy starships and collide with their hull. Upon impact, the Scourge explodes, destroying itself and dealing harsh damage to the enemy. For some reason, the Scourge will only lock in on flying targets, though the Overmind is experimenting with genetic combinations to render the Scourage more versatile against ground forces. As you might expect from a mindless kamikaze beastie, Scourges are neither very intelligent nor independent. They obey the will of their Overlord without question or hesitation, sending themselves headlong into battle][ Queen Queens are a special breed designed by the Overmind to manage the complex functions of a large Hive. Though they do not lay eggs, they can spawn Broodlings. Queens are highly intelligent and show a viciously protective nature against any who would attack the Swarm under her care. Like Overlords, they follow the Cerebrates and the Overmind without question.
i asked this question to a friend of mine, and he said that we would most likely prevail, since we have chemical weapons, which seem to work well against the zerg.
Chemical weapons are notoriously hard to control, especailly considering the only way I can think of to launch them over an enormous army would be through carpet bombing. Not only would we kill off many innocent humans as a result, we don't even know which chemicals would work well against them. Then there's the whole air army the zerg have; while not technically on the speedy side, their weaponry packs a punch and there would be (potentially) a few billion of them flying through the air, making bombing a little difficult.
And then, would the zerg stay in place long enough for organized bombing to even be effective? The zerg invade and cleanse -not occupy- territory. Zerg bases would still be in position but the army itself would be moving to kill, not staying in one place. All you'd be doing is killing off the "buildings", which wouldnt get you far once the invasion is underway.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Sep 21 2004, 10:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Sep 21 2004, 10:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Chemical weapons are notoriously hard to control, especailly considering the only way I can think of to launch them over an enormous army would be through carpet bombing. Not only would we kill off many innocent humans as a result.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If youre talking about guys who are standing inside the swarm, they are either screwed already, or will be screwed in the next second. I say gain air superiority (somehow) and carpet them with anything that may do damage.
talkkno: yea. Long story short, the zerg units will not just 'power down' if you take out the Overmind.
Firebats did some reasoneble in SC soooo bring in the wwII Flamethrower Tank. Would mush the **** of zerglings at least and Hydras if they are near. Bio weapons? we would probably kill ourselves with the virus, unless it's a zerg only kind.
Why always nukes? the radiation would kill pretty fast if you fire to many of em. Use missiles or some heavy bombs vs their hives not nukes.
Don't know if this will help, but in the SC cutscene, where the Sarge and a Private were driving out on Mar Sara for patrol and actually ran over a zergling. The zergling died. And I am currently taking Physics in Highschool this year.
Look out!!! The Aliens, Predetors, Kharra and the Zerg are going to gang bang Earth. Where are our allies?!?
That's why we should learn space colonization. If all fails, we can all leave Earth for a bit and fire nuclear weapons at Earth from the moon. This is probably our last option, but better than "If I am die, I am take you with me" option (about nuclear weapons). I am still tired from the exams and car accident so this posting sucks.
<!--QuoteBegin-Elestia+Sep 22 2004, 12:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Elestia @ Sep 22 2004, 12:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't know if this will help, but in the SC cutscene, where the Sarge and a Private were driving out on Mar Sara for patrol and actually ran over a zergling. The zergling died. And I am currently taking Physics in Highschool this year. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My education is ok... <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81193&st=30' target='_blank'>Education</a> Of course, these are just for the programming and electrical engineeering bit, so it doesn't include my physics, geo, chem, bio, and calculus. I never like English too much... I could only get a B in those classes. History was good though.
I don't think nukes would be neccessary. We have plenty of weapons that would be capable of destroying , atleast, zergling. For example, use machine guns/ semi automatics to destroy or injure the lingz, then use sniper rifles or rocket launcher to pick off hydras or in the case of an ultra, use vehicle mounted railguns/ coilguns. Use ship mounted artillery and railguns to shoot known locations of hive clusters or where they are postioning units.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Sep 22 2004, 09:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Sep 22 2004, 09:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If youre talking about guys who are standing inside the swarm, they are either screwed already, or will be screwed in the next second. I say gain air superiority (somehow) and carpet them with anything that may do damage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What I was talking about is wind. Think of the hideous problems armies had using stuff such as mustard gas when the wind changed, only scale it up to multiple square miles. It would be Chernobyl, albeit replacing radiation with something more immediately damaging.
Comments
Basically, if we take them as they are in the game, we lose. If we add some realism, we stand a chance.
Anyway, I think I'm leaving this one now.
Actually, the tiger tank's armor was so thick and it's turret was so powerful it was <i>the</i> tank to be in in WW2. The only way that it could be defeated was by a far quicker, smaller target at close range. The Tiger's turret moved so slowly, at close range it couldn't keep up with it's target, allowing the target to fire at the space between the turret and the chassis's armor plating... Which would be easilly peirced, killing and/or severly wounding all occupants within.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So if we cant instagib them from hundreds of miles away, we lose?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes... Or we could find a hole in their armor, like the Tiger tank had, and exploit it.
Also about the marines not dying in one hit, they are wearing incredibly large (by todays standards) suits of super dense armor. That's not an awesometastic excuse but it's not like they're running into battle with t-shirts.
Also about the marines not dying in one hit, they are wearing incredibly large (by todays standards) suits of super dense armor. That's not an awesometastic excuse but it's not like they're running into battle with t-shirts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
conservation of momentum, my friend. Even if the suit could withstand a hit from an ultralisk, the marine would have all of his bones crushed/broken by the impact.
Also, if the suit doesnt get crushed on the first impact, then naturally the person inside it wouldn't get crushed. You can hit a fridge with a bat but that doesnt mean the milk carton inside will be disturbed by it.
EDIT: ^horrible example. A bearsuit would be a better one. You can swing a wrecking ball into one of those and the person inside is fine.
Also, if the suit doesnt get crushed on the first impact, then naturally the person inside it wouldn't get crushed. You can hit a fridge with a bat but that doesnt mean the milk carton inside will be disturbed by it.
EDIT: ^horrible example. A bearsuit would be a better one. You can swing a wrecking ball into one of those and the person inside is fine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"A system of airbags that work like those in cars is located between the outer
layer and his skin is, and the legs, arms, and chest can withstand 4,200
pounds per square foot (something akin to a nice bear hug). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um, an ultralisk is a lot more than 2 tons. it's bigger than a friggin elephant. something that massive, ramming you at that speed (assuming they"re as fast as zerglings) would be more like hitting a milk carton with a car. the milk would be disturbed.
how would zerglings be able to own marines then?
2. Zerglings don't crush, they pierce. No airbags or cushioning would protect against that, naturally.
Read Maveric's post about the Tiger. Zerglings are small, agile, and have many pointy things. Their relatively smaller claws would mean they are going for a more piercing action, rather than the slicing of the Ultralisk. As well, their small size and speed would allow them to aim for the marine armor's weaker spots (joints again, just like the Tiger) with relative ease. Compare this to the Ultralisk, who just breaks the marine with brute force.
2. Zerglings don't crush, they pierce. No airbags or cushioning would protect against that, naturally. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
marine armor would naturally be designed against piercing weapons, since they use projectiles, and mankind has always designed weapons to kill each other rather than aliens. so your argument falls on its face.
that doesn't have anything to do with crushing damage.
I saw that during the intro of BW, the guy died quite gruesomely on the ground while a zergling stabbed him in a frenzy and then a fire bat had to kill the man and the zergling.
It'd take about 3 stabs in a single spot of the armor to get through, and this is with the zergling trying to wrestle you to the ground so your gun is useless.
lol what? I just said that the zergling wouldnt crush the marine at all! They're the size of dogs! In fact I remember vividly saying "Zerglings don't crush, they pierce." So naturally, no, that post wouldn't have had anything to do with crushing damage.
if their body armor is getting pierced that easily (going by cinematics here...), then we are ****, save a bullet for yourself kinda deal.
The Ulra is a freaking Biological Tank, I beleive that massed volleys of antitank cannons would kill them
Ultras would send marines (from SC) sailing like bowling pins, if real life physics are used, unless those are some heavy **** suits (pretty sure I saw one in cutscene flipping a tank, not really sure)
The solution? keep them at bay, away, and outside of melee range, where theyre dealiest
Mutalisks work well in small groups, much as a Terran squad of fighter pilots would. Mutalisks also function as well in space as in an atmosphere and have no apparent need to breathe or feed upon the Creep] [Guardian Guardians are an evolved form of the Mutalisk, developed by the Zerg to counter ground troops from the air. It's heavy armor lets it withstand more damage than its predecessor, but it is slowere and less versatile. Guardians appear to be less intelligent than Mutalisks as well, but this may be due to their larger, slower bulk] Scourge[ Scourge are relatively small, bat-like creatures that hone in on enemy starships and collide with their hull. Upon impact, the Scourge explodes, destroying itself and dealing harsh damage to the enemy. For some reason, the Scourge will only lock in on flying targets, though the Overmind is experimenting with genetic combinations to render the Scourage more versatile against ground forces.
As you might expect from a mindless kamikaze beastie, Scourges are neither very intelligent nor independent. They obey the will of their Overlord without question or hesitation, sending themselves headlong into battle][ Queen Queens are a special breed designed by the Overmind to manage the complex functions of a large Hive. Though they do not lay eggs, they can spawn Broodlings. Queens are highly intelligent and show a viciously protective nature against any who would attack the Swarm under her care. Like Overlords, they follow the Cerebrates and the Overmind without question.
And then, would the zerg stay in place long enough for organized bombing to even be effective? The zerg invade and cleanse -not occupy- territory. Zerg bases would still be in position but the army itself would be moving to kill, not staying in one place. All you'd be doing is killing off the "buildings", which wouldnt get you far once the invasion is underway.
If youre talking about guys who are standing inside the swarm, they are either screwed already, or will be screwed in the next second. I say gain air superiority (somehow) and carpet them with anything that may do damage.
talkkno: yea. Long story short, the zerg units will not just 'power down' if you take out the Overmind.
<span style='color:white'>***Moved.***</span>
Would mush the **** of zerglings at least and Hydras if they are near. Bio weapons? we would probably kill ourselves with the virus, unless it's a zerg only kind.
Why always nukes? the radiation would kill pretty fast if you fire to many of em.
Use missiles or some heavy bombs vs their hives not nukes.
And protoss should be nearby if zerg is involved.
That's why we should learn space colonization. If all fails, we can all leave Earth for a bit and fire nuclear weapons at Earth from the moon. This is probably our last option, but better than "If I am die, I am take you with me" option (about nuclear weapons). I am still tired from the exams and car accident so this posting sucks.
Nap will need to.
My education is ok...
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81193&st=30' target='_blank'>Education</a> Of course, these are just for the programming and electrical engineeering bit, so it doesn't include my physics, geo, chem, bio, and calculus. I never like English too much... I could only get a B in those classes. History was good though.
What I was talking about is wind. Think of the hideous problems armies had using stuff such as mustard gas when the wind changed, only scale it up to multiple square miles. It would be Chernobyl, albeit replacing radiation with something more immediately damaging.