Ns_bast Feedback Thread
Mendasp
I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">Beta 5</div> So far I've only heard about the engine being a 20 second run from MS, aside from that, I'd like to know what you think about the new bast (specially about the lighting changes).
For Beta 6 I want to "fix" the problems with refinery, which is going to be a pain in the ****. Any suggestions about this would be great.
You can tell me about bugs in bast in this thread, too.
For Beta 6 I want to "fix" the problems with refinery, which is going to be a pain in the ****. Any suggestions about this would be great.
You can tell me about bugs in bast in this thread, too.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I love the new res node locations, like tram tunnel and water treatment. Marine start is also a big improvement, but engine hive still needs changed, I don't know exactly what's wrong so I will need play it some more.
Edit: New secret = best secret room EVAR!!!!111
----
------
-------
Behind Doulbe Res u run the right way, they u could make a second way to the hive. <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I know that, I guess it just works ATM, I'll have to change it anyways to fix the 20 second run to engine... so I'll see if I can make it more similar to the Marine Spawn.
As for Atmos and the double res... the best solution is going to be... *sigh* removing one of the nodes, or move it... Guess I'll wait a bit more to decide what to do with this one.
Thanks for the comments, keep 'em coming! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you're going to work on making engine hive not as accessible from MS, it might be an idea to relocate the atmospheric node to inbetween MS -> engine right now. There's a few long, open hallways and plenty of room for a node. Since it's close to marine start, you could make it sorta like 1.0's caged weldable node. A vent that leads into it, but if the marines want it they'll have to weld it open.
I like it so far. Atmos and Refinery need a bit of fixing though.
However, I played 5-6 rounds the other day on Bast and every time I went Random, and was put on the Alien team, it seemed like there was a massive Marine stack the first couple rounds, and then I saw why..
When the hive was Engine Room, within 4-5 minutes, there would be marines spawn camping the hive, and even when the aliens could get organized, the marines would just back up into the hallways and slaughter the the less skilled players while the better players could only kill one or two before dying to massed lmg and hmg fire. It didn't help that the alien team seemed to be the suck every round with almost no res flow, but yeah..
Anyway, my only complaint is the Engine thingy and that <i>maybe</i> the overall feel of Bast is smaller as all the action seems to reside around one or two sections of the map and places like where the old revolving roor was seem to be vacant all the time.
Still, overall, two thumbs up.
The lighting in the marine start is fabulous, its dark and gritty without being too dark. Feedwater doesnt burn your eyes with the uber-green "aaagh my eyes" colour, and the new corridor above feed is pretty neat, i like that you kept it.
As for engine, it finaly has its second entrance, YEY.....but!! i think it is way too close to marine start.... It was a good idea trying to attach it to ms, but it dosent work that well, i suggest maybe increasing the walking distance by adding a corridor!! not by blocking it with a door or anything else!!
PS i understand the removal of the elevator in ms, but why the removal of the other one toward refinary? it didnt do anything to you!!! lol
Again, good work mendasp, bast is moving onwards to a more playable map... dont forget its atmosphere!!! it is the most atmospheric map we have, and i trust you wouldnt want to lose that!!
pss what do you think are the problems with refinary?Maybe we can come up with tips to help if you be more specific...
Not played it enough to give fair view of how playability has been affected, when I do I'll add another post.
But the actual layout of bast is not satisfying to me. I think a lot of what made bast is gone. Bast was very interactive map with all those elevators, the revolving door and the weldable vents. I know there are a lot issues with these features, but please dont go the easy way by removing them instead of fixing the problems with them.
After reading my post, I figure I should at least say some positive things... Lighting is better, although I miss some areas hiding in a corner and pouncing out. marine spawn is a litle harder to camp on the outside now, thats a plus.
If there was a ignore function in these forums, you would probably be the first one on my list. What a nice way to give me feedback man. I am impressed.
Otherwise I cant find any problems with the new bast, best balanced version yet <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for ref..... ref has always been a jpers fantasy. It virtually requires OCs just to be certain of safety. The three ways in are really the vent system leading to the upper balcony, the lower entrance from tram, and the lower entrance from the water tunnel.
IMHO perhaps refinery itself could benefit from a few ruptured pipes and trigger hurts, in order to make JPs require a bit more skill to float about.
The most obvious nerf would be to lower the roof. You could also try some large container/pipe above the res node IN ref hive... inbetween the two existing cylinders but slightly to the north. Done right, it would block off a decent section of refinery from airbound attackers??
I added 3 RTs, and got rid of one in double, switched double and MS, moved feedwater, made it a longer walk from engine to refinery, and more.
(flame away)
For Beta 6 I want to "fix" the problems with refinery, which is going to be a pain in the ****. Any suggestions about this would be great.
You can tell me about bugs in bast in this thread, too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First i have to say that the maps now much more playable. Main Aft is no Uberreloc anymore and engine got his two exits finally <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
About engine: i dont think its a big deal if mrines need only 20 seconds to get there as the way to engine is not that marine-friendly. The problem is if marines are at the engine hive they have a nice shooting range and can shoot the hive from a "secure" position.
About refinery: i would'nt like to see a complete redesign of Refinery as i like the style of this hive alot. I see the problem that Refinery is the JP's heaven and alien can nearly do nothing against JP's killing the hive. I think it would help to move the hive into a more secured area so JP's had to get closer to shoot the hive and this way alien get a chance downing the JP.
And finally thanks for removing the lightning at feedwater. So i dont have to be afraid anymore getting eye cancer by looking into feedwater hive <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I added 3 RTs, and got rid of one in double, switched double and MS, moved feedwater, and more.
(flame away) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this man is a genius :o
I added 3 RTs, and got rid of one in double, switched double and MS, moved feedwater, and more.
(flame away) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like your idea of swapping atmos and mairne start then extending the distance to feedwater.
Maybe not the way you have done it, but definately that idea is a good one as it brings back atmos into the map and solves the short route to engine.
The really big problem with the 20 second travel time is that the marines can get there so fast in the early game, that a shotgun rush is almost inevitable. And even if they don't shotgun rush the hive, a smart commander will keep sending a marine or two to harass the hive, and since its such a short walk it will almost seem like a continuous wave of Marine hitting the hive. And the aliens will ultimately have to drop OCs VERY early on to combat this (and that early in the game they probably can't truly afford enough OCs to do the job properly).
The other issue you run into is the best/fastest path to Refinery is through Engine which is not a situation you want to be in. The marines can do an insanely fast 2 hive lockdown if the Aliens start in Feed. Have the marines go to Refinery, when they get to Engine have one or two stop and build a TF and some turrets and the node, while the others get to refinery and hold it while they wait for res. With a minimal amout of luck you'll have Turret Factories in two hives and you can start capping the res nodes you passed. In addition this makes Engine exteremely high traffic, so the odds of the marines stumbling upon a building hive, or just deciding to siege it down while they head to Refinery are awfully high.
Now, if only Mendasp would look...