Should Knife Damage Be Decreased?
MarineAnimal
Join Date: 2004-05-14 Member: 28676Members
Join Date: 2004-05-14 Member: 28676Members
<div class="IPBDescription">meh</div> Marine melee vs skulk melee
Think about this.
In the manual: <i>"against the Kharaa, this is a very last resort. Better to retreat than engage the Kharaa in melee."</i>
A stock skulk kills a stock marine in two bites. A marine can knife a skulk in 3 attacks. After marines research armor, it gets even worse.
I am more than happy to take a knife into combat. If I run out of bullets, I actually stand a chance at a skulk with the knife if I jump around just right and avoid it's bites.
Think about this.
In the manual: <i>"against the Kharaa, this is a very last resort. Better to retreat than engage the Kharaa in melee."</i>
A stock skulk kills a stock marine in two bites. A marine can knife a skulk in 3 attacks. After marines research armor, it gets even worse.
I am more than happy to take a knife into combat. If I run out of bullets, I actually stand a chance at a skulk with the knife if I jump around just right and avoid it's bites.
Comments
I never use anything but the knife, I've knifed bad fades, bad onos, bad lerks, bad skulks, ..any kind of gorge(Can't run very fast without celerity =P)
It's the only way I have fun as rine.
Knife should = 15 damage against aliens (and ffs please get rid of knife knockback on Onos)
and 2x against structures.
the suggestion is pretty damn well balanced because as we all know Skulks should have the freakin upper hand in a melee situation.
I don't understand why you all think the knife is fine. I would rather die to a skulk trying to melee him knowing that the skulk has the upper hand in a melee sitation 1 on 1. Now you say "Skulks have mobility and can easily dodge and get past the knife. Yea well have you not forgotten that the marine has the "OH NO HOP AROUND LIKE CRAZY IN CIRCLES WHENEVER A ALIEN COMES NEAR ME" syndrome in which 99.9 percent of all marine players do.
So it evens them out easily Vanilla skulk vs vanilla marine. which isnt fair. It shouldnt even them out. a skulk should easily win in that kind of situation with full hp.
AND the marine slashes, i really dont know how 3 slashes of a knife could kill somethnig the size of a dog, and 1/2 the size of a human (if you look at it from real life perspective) and yes, of course marines fighting aliens in outer space isnt possible atm if you in fact look at it from real life perspective . <-- answer to the ditwit who will bring that topic up to try and contradict me.
I do.
And it's extremely effective.
My stats show me having 80:29 K:D ratio using knife. That's almost a 2/3 chance of me winning a knife fight. I'm admittedly not a fantastic player, yet managing to have positive K:D with knifing...You're still going to tell me this is right?
Lower knife damage to 15, give it blast status. Problem solved.
Alien rt takes 80 knife swipes
Marine RT takes 75 bites
bite
has
more
range
then
the
knife <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
than <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This isn't intuitive though because the only way it can reasonably fight is in close most of the time. Trying to stay at extreme range of bite is asking the marine to jump away like a crazed loon and finish said skulk off with a ranged weapon. Knowing this an experience marine can quite happily run around with the knife out, only bothering with ranged weapons against multiple skulks and the occasional knowledgeable one that backs off a bit.
bite
has
more
range
then
the
knife <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but
people
don't
stand
still
so
range
doesn't
always
matter
considering the advanced weaponry they probably have (it's the future, bullets are made out of something... good) I'd think they'd hit for more than the knife. Bullets hurt too and apparently they hurt 3x less than a knife when they should both be about as deadly if the bullet doesn't have an upper hand against the thick skin of an alien.
<img src='http://bob.thezazi.net/knifebite.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Made by getting up right next to the edge of a wall made of individual glass squares and attacking with the two weapons. The range difference is tiny, but it is there.
(Some might recognize one of the te_glasswall maps from the CS summerblue.net <a href='http://summerblue.net/games/cs_report/index.html' target='_blank'>report</a>. The rmf was freely available, so I haxed it up a bit to make it work with NS.)
That has nothing to do with the marine's actual ability to run around with a knife. To put it another way, if marine gun damage were suddenly nerfed en mass, the marines would still be able to fight against vanila skulks effectively by learning how to use the knife in combination with the more conventional weapons.
Edit: Weapon to gun...
<a href='http://www.lsclan.com/~one/stats/index.php?page=weaponlist' target='_blank'>http://www.lsclan.com/~one/stats/index.php?page=weaponlist</a>
There is the weapon list... 2366 kills with knives?! We have more knife kills than xenocide kills or spore kills. Or elecrified resource tower kills. We almost have as many knife kills as turret kills, for crying out loud!
It seems that the server has developed an obsession for knife kills, and to be perfectly blunt about it, they're getting VERY good at it. I'm not trying to brag here... in fact, with 27 knife deaths, I might be the most knifed player on the server.
You may say, "well, you're angry because you get knifed a lot". But on this server there are marines that won't finish of a skulk... they will try to hit you with 7-8 LMG shots and then finish you with a knife just to get a bloody knife kill, because it's so easy and it's evidently a display of "skill", illusionary or not.
If that isn't proof enough of the imbalance, well... I really don't know what to say.
*EDIT* to make my opinion perfectly clear, I think that a marine should be pressed to make a decision between reloading his LMG, his pistol, or unsheathing his knife, as opposed to right now where you could skip the pistol and use the knife after unloading your LMG. I only unsheath my knife if I have expended my LMG and pistol clips and would have to reload, because I'm more of a conventional player (no bunnyhopping, no medspam, etc...).
or just raise skulk hp by 5
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but
people
don't
stand
still
so
range
doesn't
always
matter<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk speed > marine speed
or just raise skulk hp by 5 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or just nerf knife damage by 5. It's still take 4 swings, and I'd much rather see Skulks get a slight buff in armor rather than in health, if any buff at all (I'm growing used to current Skulks, but that's beside the point). Plus, it'd only reduce knife efficiendy against structures by a small bit (which would hardly be noticed in large groups) and is a better alternative to buffing up alein chambers, in my opinion. The whole point of nerfing the knife is to reduce Marine reliance/fondness with the weapon; it <i>is</i>, after all, a weapon of efficiency and desperation.
Due to the random nature of an encounter between marine and skulk and the 'dance' that follows I'd say the range makes a negligible difference.
For instance with your jump example the skulk has to get it <i>just</i> right before he comes within range of a faster, deadly weapon.
Bloody heII; where did that monster come from? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you have read you'd see that i postd twice on easy counters to your ine sided thoughts.
Ill post them again it seems. :
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk bite range is bigger then knifes, so it doesnt matter<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->.
-Ah well if you have played less HL DM games and more NS you'd notice everytime a marine sees a skulk or any alien he fanatically hops around. Thus, completly cancelling out range factor. Also, have you noticed the Rate of fire on the knife is 2x faster then bite?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulks are much faster then marines in mobility<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Oh, thank you mr. obvious , you know I always thought skulks ran slower then marines. Once again though: Everytime a marine sees a skulk or any alien he fanatically hops around. Thus, completly cancelling out the speed of the skulk. Make your sensitivity a high 11 like mine and you can easily pull 360 swings with your knife hitting the strafing skulk.
I also noticed I was doing quite well with the knife today against skulks. Which is quite dissapointing how They dont have the upper hand in melee currently <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->