I am a Christian, my whole family are Christians. We don't have a problem with games. I've been playing shoot-em-ups for years and I've never wanted to kill someone. We all agree that it's not as much the game's fault as it is the person who plays it. Some people can't separate the game from reality.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Oct 31 2002, 09:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Oct 31 2002, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some people believe that days mean creation periods, IE, could mean anything from 24 hours to a million years.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” -- 2 Peter Chapter 3, Verse 8
I have much more to reply to in this topic. Let's see if I ever do.
-Ryan!
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
edited November 2002
If God exists, I think he being infinite is one of the lesser problems. Humans come and go, so for us to imagine something infinite is impossible. That doesn't mean something infinite can't exist.
It's been recently discovered (or rather; theorised) that light is constantly reducing it's speed, meaning that Earth isn't necessiarly around four million years old after all. Though I think six thousand years lacks the space to squeeze in all the dinosaurs and other extinct beings of the past. I don't think as a christian you should take Genesis literally when it comes to how Earth was created. Reading it as if it was written metaphorically shouldn't make a difference for a christian's faith, should it? (As BathroomMonkey suggested, it seems like more people are doing just that lately. I mean reading it metaphorically without having a problem with it.)
I consider myself an agnostic, much of what my christian friends say has lots of sense to it (and yet other christians are very ignorant, though I don't jugde all christians according to them), though you can't really know if God exists or if he's who he says he is.
Now, if we make a though-experiments, things can get really weird. I like to imagine how it would be if a group of humans (in my imagination scientists) made artificial intelligence in a controlled virtual society; they could have allmighty control over the artificial society's world, though as true scientists they might want to just observe how the A.S. (artificial society) evolve, and maybe make minor interactions to test the reactions of this human-made society.
If there's an comparably allmighty God, how can we know the motives behind anything he does? What would keep an allmighty God from doing one thing and giving a believable (though not true) explaination?
Okay, this is just a though-experiment, not an actual belief. ;) I highly suggest not to make too weird thoughts about this.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dezmodium+Nov 6 2002, 01:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dezmodium @ Nov 6 2002, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->from a satanic point of veiw. being a satanist is about looking at things objectively and taking control of your life and YOUR OWN ACTIONS. christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> **sigh**
I agree with you, you are in charge of your own life. That's why people are able to go around and do stupid things, wether it be myg0ts, or the MD Sniper of late. People do have the right to choose what to do, who to follow, and what to believe. I think most of you would agree, but if not I'll argue the point.
However, I do take particular resentment to your statement that "christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions. "
A vast generalization. When I screw up, it's my fault. I know that, because other than demon posession (which I have never witnesed, but have heard about,) the only influence from supernatural factors, for me at least, is temptation. Meerly tempted. It's my choice wether to give into it, just as it is my coice to believe in and server the Lord, just as it is my choice to recieve his gift of salvation.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Nov 10 2002, 05:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Nov 10 2002, 05:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Dezmodium+Nov 6 2002, 01:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dezmodium @ Nov 6 2002, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->from a satanic point of veiw. being a satanist is about looking at things objectively and taking control of your life and YOUR OWN ACTIONS. christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> **sigh**
I agree with you, you are in charge of your own life. That's why people are able to go around and do stupid things, wether it be myg0ts, or the MD Sniper of late. People do have the right to choose what to do, who to follow, and what to believe. I think most of you would agree, but if not I'll argue the point.
However, I do take particular resentment to your statement that "christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions. "
A vast generalization. When I screw up, it's my fault. I know that, because other than demon posession (which I have never witnesed, but have heard about,) the only influence from supernatural factors, for me at least, is temptation. Meerly tempted. It's my choice wether to give into it, just as it is my coice to believe in and server the Lord, just as it is my choice to recieve his gift of salvation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your right, I did generalize. I didn't mean to stereotype like that.
But I have found that Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. do tend to scapegaot. And to top it off when they do scapegoat, they do it like its going out of style.
One thing I always did hate (above all)...
::quote from negativepositive.org::
"When something happens to a non-christian it is the wages of sin, but when something bad happens to a christian it is God working in mysterious ways."
Your generalizing again. I attribute bad things in teh world, or in the life of me and my other Christian friends to my own fault, if it's something I did, and if it's something I had no control over, then I like to think it's the result of other people's free will.
Who is the scapegoat, pratel? Satan?
The bible says it's his infulence in the world that, basicly, screwed everything up in the first place, (Adam and Eve, anyone?) but ultimately, it is possible to resist temptation, and in the end it does coem down to people's choices.
I am very saddened that the faith I practice has been mis-represented to you. It really is an intregal part of my life, a source of purpose, comfort at times.
It's not a crutch though, and if anyone feels like taking up the argument, I'll bite.
He's not generalizing. He's saying that his experiences with those groups have pointed their finger elsewhere when they themselves are to blame.
While I'm not going to take up your argument.. I will say that SOME people use it as a crutch. I'm glad that you do not. I've seen people pray for God to send them good things, and then actively choose what they do not want. And one even said God is punishing them for something.
And Longtooth, I didn't say anyone was attacking anyone. If you read the next sentence it says: "Not that anyone has..." Just to clear that up.
Gah, 158 comments in a thread and i wasnt invited. As a new guy im gonna take a "nicer than usual" stance on this whole religion thing just to not offend anyone, take a glance at the avatar and guess my faith. Yes you got it, im pagan. Weird as it may seem though i believe in god, and satan, but only in a spiritual form. Each side of faith controlling different aspects of human emotion. My true faith lies with the goddess and my soul in the astral realm. I treat god and satan as a way of explaining my views. i believe strongly in majority perception, in my eyes, nothing is bad, its all opinionated. All my friends think im a satanist because of my pagan tendencies and my love of blood *slurp* and the fact that i keep rambling about hell and demons etc. i dont think any conflict should be made over religion, personnally (and this is my opinion) i cant stand the blindness of a lot of christians (particularly the american TV preacher dudes). It confuses me how people can live there lives without ever questioning it. It also angers me because they dont seem to understand there lives, and seem content, and i wish to be like that. But this ent about me. Hmmm, i just remembered that a religion thing was what got me banned from #naturalselection, hehe. And about the "using religion as a crutch" thing, that is exactly how i feel. Its like giving god credit for thingss and not excepting that sh1t happens. Hmm, i feel hypocritical now, cos im real superstitious. Also, has anyone really read the bible, its very tyrannical if you look closely. You start to remember that its not written by "god" but by followers (read: power freaks) who IMO liked to control the masses with their tales of a deity with the authority to destroy heretics. Thereby keeping people in line. Rant over, at least for me
Incidently this thread has stayed nicely on topic by the looks of it. Nice job folks
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Incidently this thread has stayed nicely on topic by the looks of it. Nice job folks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I'm rather proud of my forumers. They deserve Krispy Kreme donuts.
Molec, make mine a frosted twist with a pinch of cinnamon and can I get some coffee too? And Krispy Kreme is overated. And everyone keep on talking I am wating for something to comment on.
<!--QuoteBegin--Banzai_666+Nov 12 2002, 12:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Banzai_666 @ Nov 12 2002, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, has anyone really read the bible, its very tyrannical if you look closely. You start to remember that its not written by "god" but by followers (read: power freaks) who IMO liked to control the masses with their tales of a deity with the authority to destroy heretics. Thereby keeping people in line. Rant over, at least for me
Incidently this thread has stayed nicely on topic by the looks of it. Nice job folks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've read quite a bit of it, and am working on an inductive study on Acts.
Book, chapter, and verse please, where it appears tyranical.
Hard to believe someone is a "power freak" when they give up everything they have, and then are killed in the most horrific way possible for someone who told them "Come with me" one day.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i believe strongly in majority perception, in my eyes, nothing is bad, its all opinionated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh yes, relitivism(sp). Everything is right depending on the circumstances and views of he who creates those actions...
*cracks knuckles*
Let me ask you then, if in Usama Bin Laden's opinion it was ok to blow up the WTC, then is it good for everyone? Conflicting statements cannot me both true in the same sence in the same time. 2=2 and 2=4 cannot both be correct.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->that is exactly how i feel. Its like giving god credit for thingss and not excepting that sh1t happens<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not accepting that bad things happen to people?... I'm afraid I can't make sense of this statement. Giving God credit for good things, and accepting and moving past bad things that happen to us are two different things entrely, they don't even interfere with each other. IN a sense, you may be right about the "crutch" thing, as it does give me comfort, knowing what happens after we die, knowing what God is like, knowing that God is there... But by no means has my life been easyer after becoming a Christian. It's great, honestly, the open-ness I have with people, and the kind of friends that I have because of it, yes. But what about when you honsestly try to adhere to the moral rules set forth, not because you feel you have to , but because you want to, and are still tempted, overwhelmed, over-worked, and ostracised for your beliefs? I'm not even joking. The church I go to does some things differntly than the real formal things in my neighborhood, and I've been called part of a cult at least twice, maybe more behind my back.
So... yeah. So you may ask, why still believe it? Because I've seen GOd work through my life. Again, I know that sounds corny, but what about when people you know go from being utterly aethest, getting drunk and stoned weekly, to cleaning themselves up, making friends, and beign happyer because of the choice they made to accept God? I'm not even kidding. He's real to me, and at the end of the day, my life is better because of him. To me, that's all that matters.
I find it interesting that people of faith thank their god(s) for the things they have. Did they not earn them for themselves? Or have them given to them by other people? It makes more sense to me to thank the people that gave me things or helped me get things for myself. I see no need to thank a being that I have never been helped by nor seen in my lifetime. And none of the prayers I have ever heard anyone say have ever come true.
Legionnaired, Let me jus say you are one of the most intelligent and rational people I know. I too am a gamer and a Christian, and I happen to know alot of people who are anti-religious. They often question God and his work, and sometimes I am at a loss of what to say. I think you truely expressed and explained how God works. I have also seen God bring drug addicts out of the ghetto and into jobs, and a real life. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
o_O erm...ok, and you dont for one second thinks that this might have been becasue they put effort into their lives? And what was "god" doing creating addictions anyway
i use to be atheist for a long **obscenity** time.
But when you think about to much is just couincidence
One of the reason why i started to believe in god is math. I dont believe in the wrathful vengfull god portraed the old testament so i guess im not christian. But thier is obviously a devine order in the universe. otherwise how could math work? How could a man in a lab come up with string theroy? I dont pray because if there is a devin order in the universe its kinda pointless right.
Also nostradaumus is pretty freaky you gotta believe in something after reading his stuff. Especially if you read his stuff before 911! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
*chews a pencil* I used to be and atheist. I was brought up in a catholic school, thats where i learnt to hate and where i learned most of the things i know about the bible (know thine enemy i say) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Then i forgot about all that for about 8 years. Now im 17 and i have just begun to read the bible again. Of particular interest to me are the psalms and proverbs. They have a particularly hypocritical and tyrannical nature if you take a cynical viewpoint. ON the flipside they could (i should think) show someone a path to lead there life in. But, like nostradamus, they are pretty vague. Like horoscopes. Does anyone else follow theirs? I think they contain a lot of meaning and if you have ever noticed a weekly/monthly pattern in your moods you can usually atribute it to the phases of the moon and the planets. I always find i get depressed around the rising of saturn and i get hyper and stuff around uranus time (this is the time when things go well for me). Right now im in a low *shakes fist at solar movements* but the full moon is coming so ill get at least one good day this week.
IM not sure entirly what nostradamu based his faith on, he speaks highly of christ and the antichrist through his work so im assuming he is christian orientated.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let me ask you then, if in Usama Bin Laden's opinion it was ok to blow up the WTC, then is it good for everyone? Conflicting statements cannot me both true in the same sence in the same time. 2=2 and 2=4 cannot both be correct.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The world's overpopulation is killing it. Therefore it should be in everyone's best interest to right this wrong. Plus, I didn't know anybody who was killed from the attack, therefore, I was not affected on a personal level and look at it from a third party standpoint.
But it is funny that you bring this up. This is the result of religous fanatasism. Brought on by poeple who beleive they are doing good. I do not beleive in good or bad. I stand back, as I said, and see the whole incidence a pure act of pallid incompetence.
-----------edit (added content)------------
Exodus 21:20: "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for the slave is his money."
Leviticus 25:44-46 "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: You may buy your male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you ... You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession <b>forever</b>."
How oprresive. God apparently thought it was ok to kill slaves under certain conditions. After all, this is his word <b>divinely</b> inspired. Nevermind the commandments.
Also, a historian Dagoburt Runes (whose mother was killed in a concentration camp) wrote:
"'Everything Hitler did to the Jews, all the horribly unspeakable misdeeds, had already been done to the smitten people before by the Christian churches. . . . The isolation of Jews into ghetto camps, the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books, and finally the burning of the people - Hitler learned it all from the church. However, the church burned Jewish women and children alive, while Hitler granted them a quicker death, choking them first with gas.'
Disturbing.
Joshua 10:40 "So Joshua defeated the whole land ... He left none remaining, But utterly destroyed all that breathed, As the Lord God of Israel commanded."
1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, And utterly destroy all that they have; Do not spare them, But kill both man and woman, Infant and suckling, Ox and sheep, Camel and **obscenity**."
God seems to really take a likin' to smiting and holocausts.
first off the bible wasnt written right when things happened 2nd its been rewritten and copied many times. So their prolly isint one thing in there that describes things like they really happened.
I still think the only way to prove god is with math. Its the one science that is absolutly true. I think humans are someday going to reach the point where they cant get much farther. Like in moby **obscenity** they talk about a wall that seperates humans from abosulte divine truth. The wall is human comprehension.
<!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Nov 13 2002, 08:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Nov 13 2002, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->first off the bible wasnt written right when things happened 2nd its been rewritten and copied many times. So their prolly isint one thing in there that describes things like they really happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is exactly why i don't base my life completely off of a half-@ssed guide to life, and frankly, i cant see how anyone else can either.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Nov 12 2002, 10:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Nov 12 2002, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Book, chapter, and verse please, where it appears tyranical.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In Joshua and in the second half of Numbers is celebrated the mass murder of men, women, children, down to domestic animals in city after city across the whole land of Canaan. Jericho is obliterated in a kherem, a "holy war." The only justification offered for this slaughter is the mass murderers' claim that, in exchange for circumcising their sons and adopting a particular set of ritualsm their ancestors were long before promised that this land was their land. Not a hint of self-reproach, not a muttering of patriarchal or divine disquiet at these campaigns of extermination can be dug out of holy scripture. Instead, Joshua "destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded" (Joshua 10:40). And these events are not incidental, but central to the main narrative thrust of the Old Testament. Similar stories of mass murder (and in the case of the Amalekites, genocide) can be found in the books of Saul, Esther, and elsewhere in the Bible, with hardly a pang of moral doubt.
It was all, of course, troubling to liberal theologians of a later age.
-Ryan!
"This is my commandment, that ye love one another." -- Jesus of Nazareth (Bible, John 15:12)
"Love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Jesus of Nazareth (Bible, Matthew 19:19)
<!--QuoteBegin--Ice Wolf+Nov 12 2002, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice Wolf @ Nov 12 2002, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I too am a gamer and a Christian, and I happen to know alot of people who are anti-religious. They often question God and his work, and sometimes I am at a loss of what to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Understand that I question God not because I am anti-religious, but because I hope to understand Him better through skeptical analysis of the world around me.
-Ryan!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -- Epicurus
<!--QuoteBegin--H'BNayr+Nov 13 2002, 09:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (H'BNayr @ Nov 13 2002, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -- Epicurus<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> excelent quote..... And I feel similar to you. Its not that I am unreligous, I am against all forms of mass religion. I depersonalizes the very personal nature that is religion to a man (or woman). Even though I love to rant I really am not trying to tear anybody down. I wish people would just think a little more for themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Nov 12 2002, 04:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Nov 12 2002, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also nostradaumus is pretty freaky you gotta believe in something after reading his stuff. Especially if you read his stuff before 911! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I used to believe Nostradamus WAS pretty freaky. Until you read all of his writings. He does hit a few times, but the wording is so vague. And for every hit, there are, literally, hundreds of misses. As for the 9/11 thing:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb", The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" -- Nostradamus 1654
Nostradamus died in 1566. This quatrain was written by a Neil Marshall in a paper entitled "A Critical Analysis of Nostradamus." Marshall made up the quatrain above to demonstrate ? quite ironically, in light of how it is now being misused ? that the writings of Nostradamus are cryptic enough to be interpreted to "predict" almost anything.
There was another 9/11 "prediction":
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb''The third big war will begin when the big city is burning'- Nostradamus 1654 ...on the 11 day of the 9 month that...two metal birds would crash into two tall statues...in the new city..and the world will end soon after" "From the book of Nostradamus"
While it is cryptic enough to be written by Nostradamus, it is not found anywhere within Centuries. It, too, is a fake.
Yet again:
Century 6, Quatrain 97 Two steel birds will fall from the sky on the Metropolis. The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude. Fire approaches the great new city [New York City lies between 40-45 degrees] Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up. Within months, rivers will flow with blood. The undead will roam earth for little time.
This one is real...almost.
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude, Fire approaches the great new city Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up When they want to have verification from the Normans.
New York City lies at exactly 40 degrees, 42 minutes, 51 seconds north latitude, and while it isn't false, therefore, to say it lies "between 40-45 degrees," it is imprecise, misleading and an obvious ploy to make what Nostradamus actually wrote ? "The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude" ? seem applicable to the events of September 11.
<a href='http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Nostradamus/' target='_blank'>Decide for yourself.</a>
This was so off-topic, it's not even funny.
-Ryan!
Beasts ferocious from hunger will swim across rivers: The greater part of the region will be against the Hister, The great one will cause it to be dragged in an iron cage, When the German child will observe nothing. -- Nostradamus
H'Bnayr you stole my Eprinicus quote! How could you? I used that exact same quote a few pages up. Theif. And why do people consider being anti-religious to be a bad thing? Religion is like having an imaginary friend, exept everyone claims to have the exact same one but they all play with him different.
<!--QuoteBegin--Longtooth+Nov 13 2002, 06:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Longtooth @ Nov 13 2002, 06:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->H'Bnayr you stole my Eprinicus quote! How could you? I used that exact same quote a few pages up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed I did. I had read it long ago, but couldn't remember the exact wording. I oft used the logic, but never had the quote. You re-introduced it to me.
Please, take no offense. I stole it, because I love it so.
-Ryan!
"I quote others only the better to express myself." -- Michel de Montaigne
if you're christian, then I suppose you wholeheartedly support the utter tripe that is: <a href='http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.asp</a>
I dont mean to offend, but the way that homosexual people are treated in these 'tracts' is quite appaling. In one a kid asks a priest if 'being **obscenity** is ok' and he replies 'no, for **obscenity** people smell of devils and death and shall be cast into the lake of fire'.
<span style='color:red'> Do not attempt to skirt the swear filters again. This forum's rules are not up for debate. Accept them or leave.</span>
**obscenity** wheres that 'edited by' box, or did someone edit the SQL <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
-- 2 Peter Chapter 3, Verse 8
I have much more to reply to in this topic. Let's see if I ever do.
-Ryan!
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
It's been recently discovered (or rather; theorised) that light is constantly reducing it's speed, meaning that Earth isn't necessiarly around four million years old after all. Though I think six thousand years lacks the space to squeeze in all the dinosaurs and other extinct beings of the past. I don't think as a christian you should take Genesis literally when it comes to how Earth was created. Reading it as if it was written metaphorically shouldn't make a difference for a christian's faith, should it? (As BathroomMonkey suggested, it seems like more people are doing just that lately. I mean reading it metaphorically without having a problem with it.)
I consider myself an agnostic, much of what my christian friends say has lots of sense to it (and yet other christians are very ignorant, though I don't jugde all christians according to them), though you can't really know if God exists or if he's who he says he is.
Now, if we make a though-experiments, things can get really weird. I like to imagine how it would be if a group of humans (in my imagination scientists) made artificial intelligence in a controlled virtual society; they could have allmighty control over the artificial society's world, though as true scientists they might want to just observe how the A.S. (artificial society) evolve, and maybe make minor interactions to test the reactions of this human-made society.
If there's an comparably allmighty God, how can we know the motives behind anything he does? What would keep an allmighty God from doing one thing and giving a believable (though not true) explaination?
Okay, this is just a though-experiment, not an actual belief. ;) I highly suggest not to make too weird thoughts about this.
**sigh**
I agree with you, you are in charge of your own life. That's why people are able to go around and do stupid things, wether it be myg0ts, or the MD Sniper of late. People do have the right to choose what to do, who to follow, and what to believe. I think most of you would agree, but if not I'll argue the point.
However, I do take particular resentment to your statement that "christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions. "
A vast generalization. When I screw up, it's my fault. I know that, because other than demon posession (which I have never witnesed, but have heard about,) the only influence from supernatural factors, for me at least, is temptation. Meerly tempted. It's my choice wether to give into it, just as it is my coice to believe in and server the Lord, just as it is my choice to recieve his gift of salvation.
**sigh**
I agree with you, you are in charge of your own life. That's why people are able to go around and do stupid things, wether it be myg0ts, or the MD Sniper of late. People do have the right to choose what to do, who to follow, and what to believe. I think most of you would agree, but if not I'll argue the point.
However, I do take particular resentment to your statement that "christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions. "
A vast generalization. When I screw up, it's my fault. I know that, because other than demon posession (which I have never witnesed, but have heard about,) the only influence from supernatural factors, for me at least, is temptation. Meerly tempted. It's my choice wether to give into it, just as it is my coice to believe in and server the Lord, just as it is my choice to recieve his gift of salvation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your right, I did generalize.
I didn't mean to stereotype like that.
But I have found that Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. do tend to scapegaot. And to top it off when they do scapegoat, they do it like its going out of style.
One thing I always did hate (above all)...
::quote from negativepositive.org::
"When something happens to a non-christian it is the wages of sin, but when something bad happens to a christian it is God working in mysterious ways."
I really can not stand blind ignorance.
Who is the scapegoat, pratel? Satan?
The bible says it's his infulence in the world that, basicly, screwed everything up in the first place, (Adam and Eve, anyone?) but ultimately, it is possible to resist temptation, and in the end it does coem down to people's choices.
I am very saddened that the faith I practice has been mis-represented to you. It really is an intregal part of my life, a source of purpose, comfort at times.
It's not a crutch though, and if anyone feels like taking up the argument, I'll bite.
While I'm not going to take up your argument.. I will say that SOME people use it as a crutch. I'm glad that you do not. I've seen people pray for God to send them good things, and then actively choose what they do not want. And one even said God is punishing them for something.
And Longtooth, I didn't say anyone was attacking anyone. If you read the next sentence it says: "Not that anyone has..." Just to clear that up.
Incidently this thread has stayed nicely on topic by the looks of it. Nice job folks
Yes, I'm rather proud of my forumers. They deserve Krispy Kreme donuts.
Incidently this thread has stayed nicely on topic by the looks of it. Nice job folks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read quite a bit of it, and am working on an inductive study on Acts.
Book, chapter, and verse please, where it appears tyranical.
Hard to believe someone is a "power freak" when they give up everything they have, and then are killed in the most horrific way possible for someone who told them "Come with me" one day.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i believe strongly in majority perception, in my eyes, nothing is bad, its all opinionated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh yes, relitivism(sp). Everything is right depending on the circumstances and views of he who creates those actions...
*cracks knuckles*
Let me ask you then, if in Usama Bin Laden's opinion it was ok to blow up the WTC, then is it good for everyone? Conflicting statements cannot me both true in the same sence in the same time. 2=2 and 2=4 cannot both be correct.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->that is exactly how i feel. Its like giving god credit for thingss and not excepting that sh1t happens<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not accepting that bad things happen to people?... I'm afraid I can't make sense of this statement. Giving God credit for good things, and accepting and moving past bad things that happen to us are two different things entrely, they don't even interfere with each other. IN a sense, you may be right about the "crutch" thing, as it does give me comfort, knowing what happens after we die, knowing what God is like, knowing that God is there... But by no means has my life been easyer after becoming a Christian. It's great, honestly, the open-ness I have with people, and the kind of friends that I have because of it, yes. But what about when you honsestly try to adhere to the moral rules set forth, not because you feel you have to , but because you want to, and are still tempted, overwhelmed, over-worked, and ostracised for your beliefs? I'm not even joking. The church I go to does some things differntly than the real formal things in my neighborhood, and I've been called part of a cult at least twice, maybe more behind my back.
So... yeah. So you may ask, why still believe it? Because I've seen GOd work through my life. Again, I know that sounds corny, but what about when people you know go from being utterly aethest, getting drunk and stoned weekly, to cleaning themselves up, making friends, and beign happyer because of the choice they made to accept God? I'm not even kidding. He's real to me, and at the end of the day, my life is better because of him. To me, that's all that matters.
Let me jus say you are one of the most intelligent and rational people I know. I too am a gamer and a Christian, and I happen to know alot of people who are anti-religious. They often question God and his work, and sometimes I am at a loss of what to say. I think you truely expressed and explained how God works. I have also seen God bring drug addicts out of the ghetto and into jobs, and a real life. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
But when you think about to much is just couincidence
One of the reason why i started to believe in god is math. I dont believe in the wrathful vengfull god portraed the old testament so i guess im not christian. But thier is obviously a devine order in the universe. otherwise how could math work? How could a man in a lab come up with string theroy? I dont pray because if there is a devin order in the universe its kinda pointless right.
Also nostradaumus is pretty freaky you gotta believe in something after reading his stuff. Especially if you read his stuff before 911! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I used to be and atheist. I was brought up in a catholic school, thats where i learnt to hate and where i learned most of the things i know about the bible (know thine enemy i say) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Then i forgot about all that for about 8 years. Now im 17 and i have just begun to read the bible again. Of particular interest to me are the psalms and proverbs. They have a particularly hypocritical and tyrannical nature if you take a cynical viewpoint. ON the flipside they could (i should think) show someone a path to lead there life in. But, like nostradamus, they are pretty vague. Like horoscopes. Does anyone else follow theirs? I think they contain a lot of meaning and if you have ever noticed a weekly/monthly pattern in your moods you can usually atribute it to the phases of the moon and the planets. I always find i get depressed around the rising of saturn and i get hyper and stuff around uranus time (this is the time when things go well for me). Right now im in a low *shakes fist at solar movements* but the full moon is coming so ill get at least one good day this week.
IM not sure entirly what nostradamu based his faith on, he speaks highly of christ and the antichrist through his work so im assuming he is christian orientated.
The world's overpopulation is killing it. Therefore it should be in everyone's best interest to right this wrong. Plus, I didn't know anybody who was killed from the attack, therefore, I was not affected on a personal level and look at it from a third party standpoint.
But it is funny that you bring this up. This is the result of religous fanatasism. Brought on by poeple who beleive they are doing good. I do not beleive in good or bad. I stand back, as I said, and see the whole incidence a pure act of pallid incompetence.
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Exodus 21:20:
"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for the slave is his money."
Leviticus 25:44-46
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: You may buy your male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you ... You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession <b>forever</b>."
How oprresive. God apparently thought it was ok to kill slaves under certain conditions. After all, this is his word <b>divinely</b> inspired. Nevermind the commandments.
Also, a historian Dagoburt Runes (whose mother was killed in a concentration camp) wrote:
"'Everything Hitler did to the Jews, all the horribly unspeakable misdeeds, had already been done to the smitten people before by the Christian churches. . . . The isolation of Jews into ghetto camps, the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books, and finally the burning of the people - Hitler learned it all from the church. However, the church burned Jewish women and children alive, while Hitler granted them a quicker death, choking them first with gas.'
Disturbing.
Joshua 10:40
"So Joshua defeated the whole land ... He left none remaining, But utterly destroyed all that breathed, As the Lord God of Israel commanded."
1 Samuel 15:3
"Now go and smite Amalek, And utterly destroy all that they have; Do not spare them, But kill both man and woman, Infant and suckling, Ox and sheep, Camel and **obscenity**."
God seems to really take a likin' to smiting and holocausts.
Nuff' said. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still think the only way to prove god is with math. Its the one science that is absolutly true. I think humans are someday going to reach the point where they cant get much farther. Like in moby **obscenity** they talk about a wall that seperates humans from abosulte divine truth. The wall is human comprehension.
That is exactly why i don't base my life completely off of a half-@ssed guide to life, and frankly, i cant see how anyone else can either.
In Joshua and in the second half of Numbers is celebrated the mass murder of men, women, children, down to domestic animals in city after city across the whole land of Canaan. Jericho is obliterated in a kherem, a "holy war." The only justification offered for this slaughter is the mass murderers' claim that, in exchange for circumcising their sons and adopting a particular set of ritualsm their ancestors were long before promised that this land was their land. Not a hint of self-reproach, not a muttering of patriarchal or divine disquiet at these campaigns of extermination can be dug out of holy scripture. Instead, Joshua "destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded" (Joshua 10:40). And these events are not incidental, but central to the main narrative thrust of the Old Testament. Similar stories of mass murder (and in the case of the Amalekites, genocide) can be found in the books of Saul, Esther, and elsewhere in the Bible, with hardly a pang of moral doubt.
It was all, of course, troubling to liberal theologians of a later age.
-Ryan!
"This is my commandment, that ye love one another."
-- Jesus of Nazareth (Bible, John 15:12)
"Love thy neighbour as thyself."
-- Jesus of Nazareth (Bible, Matthew 19:19)
Understand that I question God not because I am anti-religious, but because I hope to understand Him better through skeptical analysis of the world around me.
-Ryan!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-- Epicurus
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-- Epicurus<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
excelent quote..... And I feel similar to you. Its not that I am unreligous, I am against all forms of mass religion. I depersonalizes the very personal nature that is religion to a man (or woman). Even though I love to rant I really am not trying to tear anybody down. I wish people would just think a little more for themselves.
Actually, I used to believe Nostradamus WAS pretty freaky. Until you read all of his writings. He does hit a few times, but the wording is so vague. And for every hit, there are, literally, hundreds of misses. As for the 9/11 thing:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb",
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
-- Nostradamus 1654
Nostradamus died in 1566. This quatrain was written by a Neil Marshall in a paper entitled "A Critical Analysis of Nostradamus." Marshall made up the quatrain above to demonstrate ? quite ironically, in light of how it is now being misused ? that the writings of Nostradamus are cryptic enough to be interpreted to "predict" almost anything.
There was another 9/11 "prediction":
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb''The third big war will begin when the big city is burning'- Nostradamus 1654 ...on the 11 day of the 9 month that...two metal birds would crash into two tall statues...in the new city..and the world will end soon after" "From the book of Nostradamus"
While it is cryptic enough to be written by Nostradamus, it is not found anywhere within Centuries. It, too, is a fake.
Yet again:
Century 6, Quatrain 97
Two steel birds will fall from the sky on the
Metropolis. The sky will burn at forty-five degrees
latitude. Fire approaches the great new city
[New York City lies between 40-45 degrees] Immediately
a huge, scattered flame leaps up. Within months,
rivers will flow with blood. The undead will roam
earth for little time.
This one is real...almost.
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude,
Fire approaches the great new city
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Normans.
New York City lies at exactly 40 degrees, 42 minutes, 51 seconds north latitude, and while it isn't false, therefore, to say it lies "between 40-45 degrees," it is imprecise, misleading and an obvious ploy to make what Nostradamus actually wrote ? "The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude" ? seem applicable to the events of September 11.
<a href='http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Nostradamus/' target='_blank'>Decide for yourself.</a>
This was so off-topic, it's not even funny.
-Ryan!
Beasts ferocious from hunger will swim across rivers:
The greater part of the region will be against the Hister,
The great one will cause it to be dragged in an iron cage,
When the German child will observe nothing.
-- Nostradamus
Indeed I did. I had read it long ago, but couldn't remember the exact wording. I oft used the logic, but never had the quote. You re-introduced it to me.
Please, take no offense. I stole it, because I love it so.
-Ryan!
"I quote others only the better to express myself."
-- Michel de Montaigne
I dont mean to offend, but the way that homosexual people are treated in these 'tracts' is quite appaling. In one a kid asks a priest if 'being **obscenity** is ok' and he replies 'no, for **obscenity** people smell of devils and death and shall be cast into the lake of fire'.
Utter utter sexist tripe. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
**obscenity** wheres that 'edited by' box, or did someone edit the SQL <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->