Yeah one of the best times in PC development if you like FPS's or Sequels.
Where are the titles with innovation? with that something else?
They all migrated to consoles and while consoles may not have modding power or whatever the PC may have but the sheer amount of titles that do that little thing different are more common.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a woman to save, slow motion cel shaded kicking and hurling around a track in a super fast hovering thing....
What happened to the idea where you'd play a game for "fun"?
Or has all sense of fun been knocked out of you people for graphics?
Because frankly thats whats wrong with PC's TBH. At the current moment I'd much rather stay in with my "Black box with a Green Sticker".
Why? The PC market sucks at this moment in time. Period. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Better graphics enhances gameplay and immersion. If it didn't, don't you think we out to just go back to the wolf3D engine?
Just because you're excited about a game's graphics doesn't mean you're an idiot who can't appreciate anything else. The graphics complement the package as a whole.
And saying the PC industry is in a rut is nothing new. People have been saying that for ten years now, probably longer. People will be saying it 10 years from now. Personally I think now is one of the best times in recent years to be involved w/ gaming, what with all the great games that came out last year and are due out this year and the next year... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I partly agree with Venmoch. PC games are stuck in a bit of a rut at the moment, in my opinion. Youve got your FPS games with their lovely graphics, a slight number of RTS titles, and a whole slew of MMORPG's fighting over a handful of fans. I would like to see the resurgence in creativity in game theory, although its a bit hard to convince publishers to back that up on the PC, rather than consoles (for example, the Gamecube has a greater market for games which dont fit the mold). If I had a Gamecube dev kit, or a Gamecube, and some friends who had Gamecubes, I would get coding. But it will have to wait.
Then again, I am considering buying an Apple Mac, and I make modifications where half of the appeal is that players have large pink rainbows extruding from a private orifice. So I guess I'm a rare case.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 19 2004, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 19 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What in the hell are you talking about? Where have the consoles done ANYTHING innovative? Ever? Like, within the last 5 years? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ninja Gaiden Splinter Cell Halo Metroid Prime Wind Waker Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 19 2004, 03:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 19 2004, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 19 2004, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 19 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What in the hell are you talking about? Where have the consoles done ANYTHING innovative? Ever? Like, within the last 5 years? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ninja Gaiden Splinter Cell Halo Metroid Prime Wind Waker Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
want me to keep going? I can. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Except Halo and Splinter Cell can be seen as shared Xbox/PC titles. I do agree somewhat, but it isn't just the PC platform that's lacking innovation, it's games in general.
All the crazy innovation and unique concepts seem to be trapped in Japan, with publishers unwilling to bring it over to America and Europe for fear of lack of sales, and rightfully so.
Certain genres are in dire need of a kick up the backside, so to speak. Personally, I believe Half-Life 2 will revolutionise First Person Shooters, as well as greatly supporting the modding community, at least that's my hope. Nothing else really looks too promising, except perhaps Stalker.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 19 2004, 08:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 19 2004, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What in the hell are you talking about? Where have the consoles done ANYTHING innovative? Ever? Like, within the last 5 years? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <i>Ninja Gaiden Splinter Cell Halo Metroid Prime Wind Waker Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles</i> Viewtiful Joe Gitaroo Man ICO Super Monkey Ball Animal Crossing Panzer Dragoon Orta Shenmue Jet Set Radio / Future Soul Calibur Skies of Arcadia Rez Ikaruga Advance Wars <b>Wario Ware</b> Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy
These are the best of the many, many examples. Try harder.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
The innovative games are there, but they don't sell worth jack and the publishers quickly cut the price on them and they quickly disappear from store shelves before you even hear of them. Prince of Persia just barely missed this, but its partner game Beyond Good and Evil (considered by many the best game that no one has ever heard of) was ignored into oblivion.
There was a really awesome quote by Dave Johnston on the ShackNews comments system in regards to Brothers in Arms and people complaining about "just another WW2 game" and the like... I'll see if I can drag it up, but the basic jist of it is this - People demand innovation. They cry for it, they whine about new games not having it, and slag off titles for not pushing the envelope more. Then the innovative game comes. They buy it, try it, and toss it out like they never even owned it. They hate the innovation and immediately crawl back to the familiar games they know and love. I'll try to find the exact wording he used - it was far better than my attempt here. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That, my friends, is where much of your innovation is. In bargain bins and used game racks, discarded by those who yearn for it the most, impossible to sift out from any usual outdated or piece of crap bargain title.
But just like graphics, innovation doesn't stand in the way of making a good game. Good games don't need a brand new feature or a genre-defining concept any more than they need dx87 pixel and vertex shaders and real-time dynamic lighting. Great games can still be made in the mold of what we know and love. Games need to not be held up to the measure of only how they look and what they offer that's new, but the grand sum of what it brings to the table - a fun and enjoyable experience. Great graphics and new features are awesome when done well and can add immensely to any experience, but only if that experience is good in the first place.
And if the fact that innovation on shelves is ignored isn't bad enough, how can anyone expect developers to have time to bother with it? When you're on a publisher deadline to have a game out in 2-3 years and have limited funding and resources to do it, you're running behind schedule and may not get your next paycheck if you don't catch up - not to mention you already have angry gamers threatening to 'boycott' your title because of it being behind schedule, what sort of incentive is there to bother trying anything new in the first place?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't talk before you don't know.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i will talk because i do know, the halo storyline has nothing at all to do what you just said, its all just aliens, different aliens, kill them all. theres no **** about hidden meanings, its just a **** game with a storyline worse than that of 2 year old's diary.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Apr 19 2004, 03:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Apr 19 2004, 03:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 19 2004, 08:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 19 2004, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What in the hell are you talking about? Where have the consoles done ANYTHING innovative? Ever? Like, within the last 5 years? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <i>Ninja Gaiden Splinter Cell Halo Metroid Prime Wind Waker Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles</i> Viewtiful Joe Gitaroo Man ICO Super Monkey Ball Animal Crossing Panzer Dragoon Orta Shenmue Jet Set Radio / Future Soul Calibur Skies of Arcadia Rez Ikaruga Advance Wars <b>Wario Ware</b> Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy
These are the best of the many, many examples. Try harder.
Edit - don't forget Pikmin! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I fail to see where those are "Innovative", except for Wario Ware, Viewtiful Joe, and ICO. Now don't get me wrong: Many of the games on that list are good games, hands down, no question there(though I think almost all of the Gamecube games mentioned except for Viewtiful Joe were terrible)- but they WERE NOT innovative. Lets take a look:
Ninja Gaiden? Standard Action game. Fun as hell, but nothing new. Splinter Cell? Same as MGS with some more realism and a little bar telling you if your in the light or not. Borderline on unique, but not innovative. Halo? Innovative? Ha! Metroid Prime? Innovative? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wind Waker? Innovative? Same as OoT with Cel Shading. FF:CC? Haven't played, but from what I've heard standard. Viewtiful Joe? Innovative, I'll give you that one.
I'd go on but I'm getting really bored. See, thing is, a game can be great, good, whatever- and still not be innovative. Innovative is something that CHANGES a way the GENRE or GAMES THEMSELVES are played, for the BETTER. Many of those games were great games, and will be known for that, and I'll give them that, but Innovative? Nu-uh. PC games seem to be the only ones with balls right now, something where consoles borrow from PC games, or games of long, long ago.
Perfectly reasonable opinion there. Well, acknowledge Shenmue as brilliant and then I'm happy. Now, list your innovative PC games. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i will talk because i do know, the halo storyline has nothing at all to do what you just said, its all just aliens, different aliens, kill them all. theres no **** about hidden meanings, its just a **** game with a storyline worse than that of 2 year old's diary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? Then let me ask you what the hell this storyline, THAT WAS IN THE GAME, is:
A ship carrying thousands of people and supplies crash lands on a alien "Moon", of some sorts, only to find their long enemies, the Covenant, already there waiting for them. In a desperate fight just to make it off the planet, You, Master Chief, go and try to rally everyone together to make it off. Once you get your Commander, Captain Keys, off the planet, you try and find out WHY the aliens seem to be searching the planet, instead of for you. Then, from simple decoding of their messages, you go to the "Silent Cartographer", aka the little island, to try and understand whats happening. Then when you get a little bit of whats happening, and know WHERE they want to go, you go to where it says the "Control Room" is. Arriving there past the hordes of enemies, with the help of a few groups of humans on their own failed mission, you go and get into the control room, where your A.I. that was given to you at the beginning of the game finds something bad, and not having enough time to tell you what is going to happen, sends you off to get Captain Keys(who was sent to investigate there as well, for the same reason as the Cartographer/Control room). While there, you discover a non-sentient race of aliens totally unrelated to the Covenant, who are parasitic beings that take the body of those they are able to disable/kill, with a hive mind that keeps them all focused on you. Being that now Captain Keys is once again captured, you try and save him, only to find him dead- and decide to do the final thing you can do, try and get rid of this new race of parasitic aliens, by destroying the planet with the reactor core of the ship you landed on. In a desperate attempt to save those that are still alive, you tell other humans to help out along the way(who were on their own mission getting supplies from the vessel), and try and make it to a ship off the planet, after you've overloaded the cores, making them ready to explode, while the ship is falling apart around you.
And notice I left out SEVERAL levels and different stories that were in the game, but not important to the main story.
PSO is totally dependent on who you play it with. The player that has a regular party every night will tell a different tale than the one who got PKed in his first 10 minutes. Online PSO cannot be rated, but we all know offline PSO sucks. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited April 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Apr 19 2004, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Apr 19 2004, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Perfectly reasonable opinion there. Well, acknowledge Shenmue as brilliant and then I'm happy. Now, list your innovative PC games. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Man, sorry for this if its a double post:
Within the last 5 years? Well, lets see:
Baldur's Gate Ultima Online The Sims Black & White Roller Coaster Tycoon TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness) Allegiance Max Payne
And I believe those are within the last 5 years. I could be off by 1 or 2 years though on BG. I'd say certainly more than the consoles, but really when it comes down to it, the consoles tended to be "innovative"(if you can call it that) in the respect of mixing things, or taking ideas from games and putting them in a different spot(viewteful joe, mind you) in their own way, PC games were innovative IN EVERY WAY, being the only ones to go out on a limb and do something that no one without a creative mind could ever hope to do.
*edit* Added Max Payne to the list. *edit 2* Replaced Everquest with Ultima Online(and yes, I know muds came first, but I'm talking graphical games)
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Apr 19 2004, 03:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Apr 19 2004, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> PSO is totally dependent on who you play it with. The player that has a regular party every night will tell a different tale than the one who got PKed in his first 10 minutes. Online PSO cannot be rated, but we all know offline PSO sucks. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> PSO? I don't think I know of this...
While you guys are complaining about the lack of console innovation, I'll be over in the next room playing Dance Dance Revolution and Crystal Chronicles multiplayer. Have fun.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Nice 2.8. So true *cry*
Gad: DDR isn't a console game. Its a arcade game. And its one of the best games of all time.
And replace RCT with Theme Park. But lets look back:
All the games I mentioned maybe borrowed something from another Genre or gametype, but they did one thing that the consoles didn't: It HEAVILY effected gameplay, so in the process, innovative.
<!--QuoteBegin-2_of_8+Apr 19 2004, 06:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (2_of_8 @ Apr 19 2004, 06:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-supernorn2000+Apr 19 2004, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Apr 19 2004, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 19 2004, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 19 2004, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And trev, 1.2ghz is old. In fact, its nearly ancient. Just accept it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> DOOM 1.2Ghz isnt so old when you have a 600mhz processor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gotta love 533 mhz, 192 MB RAM, TNT2 Gfx card. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> It can run HL2.
Did I say HL2? 'cause I meant a slideshow about HL2. A slideshow where the slides advance every... dunno, 10 seconds? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Back then in the age of Pentium breaking the 100MHz barrier (HOLY ****, it's the shiznit back then!), my father honestly believed the Intel 386 laptop given to him was up to par with the day's standard.
Wait a sec, I'm going off topic.
I would really like to see them showing that TNT2 Gfx card running HL2.
And, on the AI: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Were the I-beams and dumpster in the trap town demo scripted or physics + AI?
They were all AI, we just hinted for the soldiers to stand in opportune spots so they could get smashed by the heavy physics objects. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does the enemy AI have some intelligence like firing at explosive barrels when you're near them or throwing objects at you?
Yes. For example, the zombie is aware of objects in the environment. His AI realizes when he can throw an object at you and applies the appropriate physics forces to make it happen. The zombies are not scripted to throw specific barrels; it's all tactical.
The blades cutting zombies in half are physics and AI as well. The zombies have been modeled so they can be cut in half, but other than that they walk into the blades and the physics causes damage and they get split in half.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Additionally, if you want innovative, openendedness: Fallout 2 did it way before Morrowind, in fact, Daggerfall did it before Morrowind. Morrowind wasn't the first in that category. If you want to talk innovative, you need to give a threshold. I could say any of those games are or are not innovative depending on how I view them.
I could say incorporating shadows into dramatic stealth gameplay with modern spy gadgets makes it innovative, or I could say, there have been dynamic shadows before, and thief did gadgets with different names that were just loosely based on magic/medival themes.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Ninja Gaiden - No. Splinter Cell - Ever played Metal Gear Solid? Halo - What about [insert FPS here]? Metroid Prime - No. Wind Waker - Ocarina of Time with cell shading Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles - Sorry, what did you say? I was playing Gauntlet Viewtiful Joe - Haven't played it, but it sounds like a standard sidescrolling beat-em up with cell shading to me ICO - What about [insert puzzle/adventure game here] Super Monkey Ball - a complete ripoff of a 5+ year old playstation game Panzer Dragoon Orta - And this is different from all the other Panzer Dragoon games <i>how</i>? Soul Calibur - Unless you count [Insert swordfighting game here] Skies of Arcadia - Standard Final Fantasy type adventure game Advance Wars - Being the first game of its type on a certain type of console does not make a game innovative Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy - Parappa is more than 5 years old
PSO - Diablo.
Baldur's Gate - No. TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness) - Have you played its prequel, Daggerfall? Didn't think so. Morrowind is actually less open ended than Daggerfall
i agree with kung f squirell, look at the games that have sold so well over the years for PC Medal of Honor, Blizzard games, all fps's, CC Generals.... I love all of these games but dont call them inovative. Lets look at all the games that didnt sell that great that were innovative XIII, NOLF, Homeworld, Escape from Monkey Island, Fallout tactics, Kohan, freedom force, impossible creatures and even age of mythology. Granted some of these games are not all that original but they didnt sell as well as their less innovative cousins.
one thing that hurts innovation is, people dont want to learn how to play a game, thats why consoles are so popular, any idiot can play a console game (and set one up), PC games however have 100 different controls, and gasp you can change them (i have a friend who doesnt play cs because anymore because figureing out how to update is too much, and this is not unusual, get anyone who doesnt know a little about computers and stick him with a pc game "they will be asking it just popped up with something, do i install?" "whats it putting on my comp" "how do i start it" "i dont get it, u dont use save points, WTH?")
/edit also people just assume that there comps cant run games if something goes wrong, even if they have a good nuff comp (my friend hit the power button on his keyboard and thought that his comp sucked and turned off cuz the game was to hard on his comp....Its 2 ghz geforce 5200, itll run most games fine)
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Apr 19 2004, 06:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Apr 19 2004, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ninja Gaiden - No. Splinter Cell - Ever played Metal Gear Solid? Halo - What about [insert FPS here]? Metroid Prime - No. Wind Waker - Ocarina of Time with cell shading Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles - Sorry, what did you say? I was playing Gauntlet Viewtiful Joe - Haven't played it, but it sounds like a standard sidescrolling beat-em up with cell shading to me ICO - What about [insert puzzle/adventure game here] Super Monkey Ball - a complete ripoff of a 5+ year old playstation game Panzer Dragoon Orta - And this is different from all the other Panzer Dragoon games <i>how</i>? Soul Calibur - Unless you count [Insert swordfighting game here] Skies of Arcadia - Standard Final Fantasy type adventure game Advance Wars - Being the first game of its type on a certain type of console does not make a game innovative Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy - Parappa is more than 5 years old
PSO - Diablo.
Baldur's Gate - No. TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness) - Have you played its prequel, Daggerfall? Didn't think so. Morrowind is actually less open ended than Daggerfall <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think you quite get the term 'innovation'. A game can be innovative while still borrowing or carrying on themes, styles and features from prequels/similar games.
Metroid Prime, for example, <i>is</i> innovative in the way that it portrays the player's POV as behind Samus's helmet, and the scanning of objects/enemies to learn secrets, weak points and the like.
PSO and diablo... nice try at a comparison but they're geniunely different =/
Sure they have the 'levelling' and 'collecting' in common along with the coop story but they both actually play totally different. I can't think of any game with a combat system like PSO's. You're comparing a point and click adventure to... well... I don't know what to describe PSO as, it's not FPS but it's not like you lack control of your char... adventure maybe? The boss battles where -you- have to dodge the attacks are something special =3
also if you want go tracking games like FF:CC back to gauntlet I might as well say baldurs gate isn't new by saying something witty about 'omg Im playing dungeons and dragons with pencil and paper' =P
btw, notice how Quaunaut was able to name 7 games grand total for the PC? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited April 2004
You have almost exactly the same amount of control over your character in PSO as you do in Diablo. Ever played the PC version of PSO? The controls are almost exactly the same as Diablo's, and it still works, because they use a very similar method of moving your character. In the playstation version of Diablo you were in direct control of you character, but it was almost exactly the same as using a cursor or, you guessed it, PSO. Oh, and you can dodge projectiles in Diablo, it's just harder because the projectiles are faster and more numerous. Face it, PSO is Diablo in 3D Sci Fi clothing.
I'm comparing a point and click adventure to a move your joystick and click adventure.
If anyone, anyone at all can show me a serious similarity between Metal Gear Solid and Splinter Cell other than the fact that they both revolve around stealth, I'll eat my pants.
And for those saying Halo isn't innovative, let's examine it compared to other FPS games.
Halo: You carry two weapons max, and two types of grenades. Other FPS: Carry a massive arsenal of weapons larger than your body, as well as huge quantities of ammunition.
Halo: Squadmates follow you around, call out orders and scream for help. They also provide covering fire and jump in the back of vehicles. Other FPS: Squadmates? Vehicles? What?
Halo: Co-op play through the entire breadth of the campaign. Other FPS: What is this co-op you're talking about? And I still want to know what those squadmates and vehicles were all about.
See my point? Keep in mind, those features might be common enough today, but Halo came out how long ago?
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-dirtygabbsnevada+Apr 19 2004, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dirtygabbsnevada @ Apr 19 2004, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thats why consoles are so popular, any idiot can play a console game (and set one up), PC games however have 100 different controls, and gasp you can change them <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That doesn't mean consoles are for idiots. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Many people just don't like having to try and keep up with hardware on a 1500-2000 dollar machine to keep things going when they can go to the store, pick up a console for under 200, and get a few years of enjoyment out of it with no problem. A valid concern, really - not everyone has the time or money to invest in PC gaming. I've recently fallen in love with consoles for some of the same reasons, grabbing a GameCube, an old Dreamcast off eBay, and am gearing up to get an X-Box in the near future (mmm... Starcraft: Ghost and Bloodrayne 2...)
Also, many games include alternate control schemes that you can fiddle around to get things set up in a way most comfortable for you. It's not nearly the customization of a PC, but there are options available.
Comments
Where are the titles with innovation? with that something else?
They all migrated to consoles and while consoles may not have modding power or whatever the PC may have but the sheer amount of titles that do that little thing different are more common.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a woman to save, slow motion cel shaded kicking and hurling around a track in a super fast hovering thing....
What happened to the idea where you'd play a game for "fun"?
Or has all sense of fun been knocked out of you people for graphics?
Because frankly thats whats wrong with PC's TBH. At the current moment I'd much rather stay in with my "Black box with a Green Sticker".
Why? The PC market sucks at this moment in time. Period. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better graphics enhances gameplay and immersion. If it didn't, don't you think we out to just go back to the wolf3D engine?
Just because you're excited about a game's graphics doesn't mean you're an idiot who can't appreciate anything else. The graphics complement the package as a whole.
And saying the PC industry is in a rut is nothing new. People have been saying that for ten years now, probably longer. People will be saying it 10 years from now. Personally I think now is one of the best times in recent years to be involved w/ gaming, what with all the great games that came out last year and are due out this year and the next year... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I partly agree with Venmoch. PC games are stuck in a bit of a rut at the moment, in my opinion. Youve got your FPS games with their lovely graphics, a slight number of RTS titles, and a whole slew of MMORPG's fighting over a handful of fans. I would like to see the resurgence in creativity in game theory, although its a bit hard to convince publishers to back that up on the PC, rather than consoles (for example, the Gamecube has a greater market for games which dont fit the mold). If I had a Gamecube dev kit, or a Gamecube, and some friends who had Gamecubes, I would get coding. But it will have to wait.
Then again, I am considering buying an Apple Mac, and I make modifications where half of the appeal is that players have large pink rainbows extruding from a private orifice. So I guess I'm a rare case.
Ninja Gaiden
Splinter Cell
Halo
Metroid Prime
Wind Waker
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
want me to keep going? I can.
Ninja Gaiden
Splinter Cell
Halo
Metroid Prime
Wind Waker
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
want me to keep going? I can. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except Halo and Splinter Cell can be seen as shared Xbox/PC titles. I do agree somewhat, but it isn't just the PC platform that's lacking innovation, it's games in general.
All the crazy innovation and unique concepts seem to be trapped in Japan, with publishers unwilling to bring it over to America and Europe for fear of lack of sales, and rightfully so.
Certain genres are in dire need of a kick up the backside, so to speak. Personally, I believe Half-Life 2 will revolutionise First Person Shooters, as well as greatly supporting the modding community, at least that's my hope. Nothing else really looks too promising, except perhaps Stalker.
<i>Ninja Gaiden
Splinter Cell
Halo
Metroid Prime
Wind Waker
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles</i>
Viewtiful Joe
Gitaroo Man
ICO
Super Monkey Ball
Animal Crossing
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Shenmue
Jet Set Radio / Future
Soul Calibur
Skies of Arcadia
Rez
Ikaruga
Advance Wars
<b>Wario Ware</b>
Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy
These are the best of the many, many examples. Try harder.
Edit - don't forget Pikmin!
There was a really awesome quote by Dave Johnston on the ShackNews comments system in regards to Brothers in Arms and people complaining about "just another WW2 game" and the like... I'll see if I can drag it up, but the basic jist of it is this - People demand innovation. They cry for it, they whine about new games not having it, and slag off titles for not pushing the envelope more. Then the innovative game comes. They buy it, try it, and toss it out like they never even owned it. They hate the innovation and immediately crawl back to the familiar games they know and love. I'll try to find the exact wording he used - it was far better than my attempt here. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That, my friends, is where much of your innovation is. In bargain bins and used game racks, discarded by those who yearn for it the most, impossible to sift out from any usual outdated or piece of crap bargain title.
But just like graphics, innovation doesn't stand in the way of making a good game. Good games don't need a brand new feature or a genre-defining concept any more than they need dx87 pixel and vertex shaders and real-time dynamic lighting. Great games can still be made in the mold of what we know and love. Games need to not be held up to the measure of only how they look and what they offer that's new, but the grand sum of what it brings to the table - a fun and enjoyable experience. Great graphics and new features are awesome when done well and can add immensely to any experience, but only if that experience is good in the first place.
And if the fact that innovation on shelves is ignored isn't bad enough, how can anyone expect developers to have time to bother with it? When you're on a publisher deadline to have a game out in 2-3 years and have limited funding and resources to do it, you're running behind schedule and may not get your next paycheck if you don't catch up - not to mention you already have angry gamers threatening to 'boycott' your title because of it being behind schedule, what sort of incentive is there to bother trying anything new in the first place?
i will talk because i do know, the halo storyline has nothing at all to do what you just said, its all just aliens, different aliens, kill them all. theres no **** about hidden meanings, its just a **** game with a storyline worse than that of 2 year old's diary.
<i>Ninja Gaiden
Splinter Cell
Halo
Metroid Prime
Wind Waker
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles</i>
Viewtiful Joe
Gitaroo Man
ICO
Super Monkey Ball
Animal Crossing
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Shenmue
Jet Set Radio / Future
Soul Calibur
Skies of Arcadia
Rez
Ikaruga
Advance Wars
<b>Wario Ware</b>
Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy
These are the best of the many, many examples. Try harder.
Edit - don't forget Pikmin! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fail to see where those are "Innovative", except for Wario Ware, Viewtiful Joe, and ICO. Now don't get me wrong: Many of the games on that list are good games, hands down, no question there(though I think almost all of the Gamecube games mentioned except for Viewtiful Joe were terrible)- but they WERE NOT innovative. Lets take a look:
Ninja Gaiden? Standard Action game. Fun as hell, but nothing new.
Splinter Cell? Same as MGS with some more realism and a little bar telling you if your in the light or not. Borderline on unique, but not innovative.
Halo? Innovative? Ha!
Metroid Prime? Innovative? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Wind Waker? Innovative? Same as OoT with Cel Shading.
FF:CC? Haven't played, but from what I've heard standard.
Viewtiful Joe? Innovative, I'll give you that one.
I'd go on but I'm getting really bored. See, thing is, a game can be great, good, whatever- and still not be innovative. Innovative is something that CHANGES a way the GENRE or GAMES THEMSELVES are played, for the BETTER. Many of those games were great games, and will be known for that, and I'll give them that, but Innovative? Nu-uh. PC games seem to be the only ones with balls right now, something where consoles borrow from PC games, or games of long, long ago.
and FF:CC while not my favourite game is definitely different though it borrows elements from such classics as gauntlet =P
i will talk because i do know, the halo storyline has nothing at all to do what you just said, its all just aliens, different aliens, kill them all. theres no **** about hidden meanings, its just a **** game with a storyline worse than that of 2 year old's diary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Then let me ask you what the hell this storyline, THAT WAS IN THE GAME, is:
A ship carrying thousands of people and supplies crash lands on a alien "Moon", of some sorts, only to find their long enemies, the Covenant, already there waiting for them. In a desperate fight just to make it off the planet, You, Master Chief, go and try to rally everyone together to make it off. Once you get your Commander, Captain Keys, off the planet, you try and find out WHY the aliens seem to be searching the planet, instead of for you. Then, from simple decoding of their messages, you go to the "Silent Cartographer", aka the little island, to try and understand whats happening. Then when you get a little bit of whats happening, and know WHERE they want to go, you go to where it says the "Control Room" is. Arriving there past the hordes of enemies, with the help of a few groups of humans on their own failed mission, you go and get into the control room, where your A.I. that was given to you at the beginning of the game finds something bad, and not having enough time to tell you what is going to happen, sends you off to get Captain Keys(who was sent to investigate there as well, for the same reason as the Cartographer/Control room). While there, you discover a non-sentient race of aliens totally unrelated to the Covenant, who are parasitic beings that take the body of those they are able to disable/kill, with a hive mind that keeps them all focused on you. Being that now Captain Keys is once again captured, you try and save him, only to find him dead- and decide to do the final thing you can do, try and get rid of this new race of parasitic aliens, by destroying the planet with the reactor core of the ship you landed on. In a desperate attempt to save those that are still alive, you tell other humans to help out along the way(who were on their own mission getting supplies from the vessel), and try and make it to a ship off the planet, after you've overloaded the cores, making them ready to explode, while the ship is falling apart around you.
And notice I left out SEVERAL levels and different stories that were in the game, but not important to the main story.
So yeah, you <b>don't know</b>.
Man, sorry for this if its a double post:
Within the last 5 years? Well, lets see:
Baldur's Gate
Ultima Online
The Sims
Black & White
Roller Coaster Tycoon
TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness)
Allegiance
Max Payne
And I believe those are within the last 5 years. I could be off by 1 or 2 years though on BG. I'd say certainly more than the consoles, but really when it comes down to it, the consoles tended to be "innovative"(if you can call it that) in the respect of mixing things, or taking ideas from games and putting them in a different spot(viewteful joe, mind you) in their own way, PC games were innovative IN EVERY WAY, being the only ones to go out on a limb and do something that no one without a creative mind could ever hope to do.
*edit* Added Max Payne to the list.
*edit 2* Replaced Everquest with Ultima Online(and yes, I know muds came first, but I'm talking graphical games)
PSO? I don't think I know of this...
Everquest
The Sims
Black & White
Roller Coaster Tycoon
TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness)
Allegiance<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sims and B&W? Yes. Others? No. Theme Park, love!
Also: Rez is unlike anything else, and Shenmue is the finest game in creation.
PSO is a silly online action RPG, addictive for a reason I cannot remember or understand and yet I want to play it right now bye.
And trev, 1.2ghz is old. In fact, its nearly ancient. Just accept it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DOOM 1.2Ghz isnt so old when you have a 600mhz processor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta love 533 mhz, 192 MB RAM, TNT2 Gfx card.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> It can run HL2.
Did I say HL2? 'cause I meant a slideshow about HL2.
A slideshow where the slides advance every... dunno, 10 seconds?
Gad: DDR isn't a console game. Its a arcade game. And its one of the best games of all time.
And replace RCT with Theme Park. But lets look back:
All the games I mentioned maybe borrowed something from another Genre or gametype, but they did one thing that the consoles didn't: It HEAVILY effected gameplay, so in the process, innovative.
And trev, 1.2ghz is old. In fact, its nearly ancient. Just accept it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DOOM 1.2Ghz isnt so old when you have a 600mhz processor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta love 533 mhz, 192 MB RAM, TNT2 Gfx card.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> It can run HL2.
Did I say HL2? 'cause I meant a slideshow about HL2.
A slideshow where the slides advance every... dunno, 10 seconds? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Back then in the age of Pentium breaking the 100MHz barrier (HOLY ****, it's the shiznit back then!), my father honestly believed the Intel 386 laptop given to him was up to par with the day's standard.
Wait a sec, I'm going off topic.
I would really like to see them showing that TNT2 Gfx card running HL2.
<a href='http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?faq=source_mod_faq' target='_blank'>HL2 mapping FAQ from VERC</a>
And, for anyone still interested:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does Half-Life 2 support dynamic lighting?
Yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And, on the AI:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Were the I-beams and dumpster in the trap town demo scripted or physics + AI?
They were all AI, we just hinted for the soldiers to stand in opportune spots so they could get smashed by the heavy physics objects. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does the enemy AI have some intelligence like firing at explosive barrels when you're near them or throwing objects at you?
Yes. For example, the zombie is aware of objects in the environment. His AI realizes when he can throw an object at you and applies the appropriate physics forces to make it happen. The zombies are not scripted to throw specific barrels; it's all tactical.
The blades cutting zombies in half are physics and AI as well. The zombies have been modeled so they can be cut in half, but other than that they walk into the blades and the physics causes damage and they get split in half.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Additionally, if you want innovative, openendedness: Fallout 2 did it way before Morrowind, in fact, Daggerfall did it before Morrowind. Morrowind wasn't the first in that category. If you want to talk innovative, you need to give a threshold. I could say any of those games are or are not innovative depending on how I view them.
I could say incorporating shadows into dramatic stealth gameplay with modern spy gadgets makes it innovative, or I could say, there have been dynamic shadows before, and thief did gadgets with different names that were just loosely based on magic/medival themes.
Splinter Cell - Ever played Metal Gear Solid?
Halo - What about [insert FPS here]?
Metroid Prime - No.
Wind Waker - Ocarina of Time with cell shading
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles - Sorry, what did you say? I was playing Gauntlet
Viewtiful Joe - Haven't played it, but it sounds like a standard sidescrolling beat-em up with cell shading to me
ICO - What about [insert puzzle/adventure game here]
Super Monkey Ball - a complete ripoff of a 5+ year old playstation game
Panzer Dragoon Orta - And this is different from all the other Panzer Dragoon games <i>how</i>?
Soul Calibur - Unless you count [Insert swordfighting game here]
Skies of Arcadia - Standard Final Fantasy type adventure game
Advance Wars - Being the first game of its type on a certain type of console does not make a game innovative
Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy - Parappa is more than 5 years old
PSO - Diablo.
Baldur's Gate - No.
TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness) - Have you played its prequel, Daggerfall? Didn't think so. Morrowind is actually less open ended than Daggerfall
Good God man, have you no shame?
one thing that hurts innovation is, people dont want to learn how to play a game, thats why consoles are so popular, any idiot can play a console game (and set one up), PC games however have 100 different controls, and gasp you can change them (i have a friend who doesnt play cs because anymore because figureing out how to update is too much, and this is not unusual, get anyone who doesnt know a little about computers and stick him with a pc game "they will be asking it just popped up with something, do i install?" "whats it putting on my comp" "how do i start it" "i dont get it, u dont use save points, WTH?")
/edit also people just assume that there comps cant run games if something goes wrong, even if they have a good nuff comp (my friend hit the power button on his keyboard and thought that his comp sucked and turned off cuz the game was to hard on his comp....Its 2 ghz geforce 5200, itll run most games fine)
Splinter Cell - Ever played Metal Gear Solid?
Halo - What about [insert FPS here]?
Metroid Prime - No.
Wind Waker - Ocarina of Time with cell shading
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles - Sorry, what did you say? I was playing Gauntlet
Viewtiful Joe - Haven't played it, but it sounds like a standard sidescrolling beat-em up with cell shading to me
ICO - What about [insert puzzle/adventure game here]
Super Monkey Ball - a complete ripoff of a 5+ year old playstation game
Panzer Dragoon Orta - And this is different from all the other Panzer Dragoon games <i>how</i>?
Soul Calibur - Unless you count [Insert swordfighting game here]
Skies of Arcadia - Standard Final Fantasy type adventure game
Advance Wars - Being the first game of its type on a certain type of console does not make a game innovative
Parappa / Um Jammer Lammy - Parappa is more than 5 years old
PSO - Diablo.
Baldur's Gate - No.
TES3:Morrowind(innovative in the open-ended ness) - Have you played its prequel, Daggerfall? Didn't think so. Morrowind is actually less open ended than Daggerfall <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you quite get the term 'innovation'. A game can be innovative while still borrowing or carrying on themes, styles and features from prequels/similar games.
Metroid Prime, for example, <i>is</i> innovative in the way that it portrays the player's POV as behind Samus's helmet, and the scanning of objects/enemies to learn secrets, weak points and the like.
Sure they have the 'levelling' and 'collecting' in common along with the coop story but they both actually play totally different. I can't think of any game with a combat system like PSO's. You're comparing a point and click adventure to... well... I don't know what to describe PSO as, it's not FPS but it's not like you lack control of your char... adventure maybe? The boss battles where -you- have to dodge the attacks are something special =3
also if you want go tracking games like FF:CC back to gauntlet I might as well say baldurs gate isn't new by saying something witty about 'omg Im playing dungeons and dragons with pencil and paper' =P
btw, notice how Quaunaut was able to name 7 games grand total for the PC? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm comparing a point and click adventure to a move your joystick and click adventure.
And for those saying Halo isn't innovative, let's examine it compared to other FPS games.
Halo: You carry two weapons max, and two types of grenades.
Other FPS: Carry a massive arsenal of weapons larger than your body, as well as huge quantities of ammunition.
Halo: Squadmates follow you around, call out orders and scream for help. They also provide covering fire and jump in the back of vehicles.
Other FPS: Squadmates? Vehicles? What?
Halo: Co-op play through the entire breadth of the campaign.
Other FPS: What is this co-op you're talking about? And I still want to know what those squadmates and vehicles were all about.
See my point? Keep in mind, those features might be common enough today, but Halo came out how long ago?
That doesn't mean consoles are for idiots. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Many people just don't like having to try and keep up with hardware on a 1500-2000 dollar machine to keep things going when they can go to the store, pick up a console for under 200, and get a few years of enjoyment out of it with no problem. A valid concern, really - not everyone has the time or money to invest in PC gaming. I've recently fallen in love with consoles for some of the same reasons, grabbing a GameCube, an old Dreamcast off eBay, and am gearing up to get an X-Box in the near future (mmm... Starcraft: Ghost and Bloodrayne 2...)
Also, many games include alternate control schemes that you can fiddle around to get things set up in a way most comfortable for you. It's not nearly the customization of a PC, but there are options available.