Half Life 2 Scaleable

Har_Har_the_PirateHar_Har_the_Pirate Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19388Members, Constellation
edited April 2004 in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">and changing on how games are played</div> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>DO NOT READ THIS ANY FARTHER, THIS HAS GONE OFF TOPIC AND HAS TURNED INTO A FLAME WAR, TRUST ME LEAVE IT ALONE</span></span>
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  • Crono5Crono5 Join Date: 2003-07-22 Member: 18357Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-dirtygabbsnevada+Apr 17 2004, 03:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dirtygabbsnevada @ Apr 17 2004, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was wondering if any of you remember how Valve said that HL2 will be scalable, so that you can play it on a really old machine(they said you could play on a like 1.2ghz or something)? Do think that was a load of crap and what kinda comp do you think one will need to play it descently? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, I don't. I thought scalability like that wouldn't be possible, but then I played UT2k4 and Painkiller. And seeing as how most of Valve's current customers are running on older computers, they wouldn't go and make it's minimum requirements that of the Unreal 3.0 engine.
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yep. They said it'll be able to be played on a 800mhz if I remember correctly, and I am 100% sure they said it could be played on a ol' TNT 2. Man...I wasn't even around when those came out(the TNT 2).
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    I for one think its a giant step backwards...

    There's only so much you can implement without breaking the scalability.

    For example, the sexy sexy shaders. In multiplayer, you can't depend on anyone having it. If you want to have a gameplay affecting element that involves the shader, you can forget it, because anyone with an older system wouldn't see it.

    So if you wanted to do something like shader based camoflauging system, people with older crappier systems would be able to cheat. And then you'd have people with newer systems writing cheats to make hl2 think their system is older so they can cheat also...

    And I'm still **** off that Valve is using an asstacular method of lighting...
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Well, that asstacular method of lighting looks better than Doom 3's, so I'm sold <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    I don't see how you can think the exact same lighting Half-Life 1 does is better looking than doom 3...
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  • 7Bistromath7Bistromath Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23928Members, Constellation
    Please to be essplaining things for people who don't know that much about how games actually work. What method of lighting? What exactly is a shader?
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  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    Please don't get doom started on the HL2 vrs Doom3 thing again. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • Crono5Crono5 Join Date: 2003-07-22 Member: 18357Members
    edited April 2004
    Half-Life uses pre-compilied lighting.

    DOOManiac, I think they revised their compiling tools several times over. It looks nice, and a dynamic per-pixel lighting system would kill that game.

    Though I do think Doom III looks nicer.

    And I think your problem with scalability ties in with the mod your making. :\ Maybe there's a way to enforce that shader?
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-007Bistromath+Apr 17 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Apr 17 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please to be essplaining things for people who don't know that much about how games actually work. What method of lighting? What exactly is a shader? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    HL2 does lighting the old HL1 way. Pre-calculated (meaning no dynamic lighting), and if a model is halfway in between light/shadow it just estimates which portion is the highest percentage and then shades the entire model that color.

    Modern games do realtime lighting where light isn't calculated, looks a lot better, and models aren't just "one or the other", the models wll be lit realistically as well. Stuff like Splinter Cell, UT2003/4, etc all do this pretty well.

    As far as shaders go, they're just.. erm... How can I put it.. They make things look neat. Very very very neat. You've seen the 'water' effect of hl2? that's a shader. The bump mapped brick walls that look like its actually 3d, but its actually an illusion as the entire wall is 1 polygon? Also shaders. That's a brief overview anyway...




    And when the hell have I brought up a HL2 vs DOOM 3 thing?
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  • Crono5Crono5 Join Date: 2003-07-22 Member: 18357Members
    edited April 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 17 2004, 03:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 17 2004, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> light isn't calculated <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 17 2004, 03:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 17 2004, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-007Bistromath+Apr 17 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Apr 17 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please to be essplaining things for people who don't know that much about how games actually work. What method of lighting? What exactly is a shader? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    HL2 does lighting the old HL1 way. Pre-calculated (meaning no dynamic lighting), and if a model is halfway in between light/shadow it just estimates which portion is the highest percentage and then shades the entire model that color.

    Modern games do realtime lighting where light isn't calculated, looks a lot better, and models aren't just "one or the other", the models wll be lit realistically as well. Stuff like Splinter Cell, UT2003/4, etc all do this pretty well.

    As far as shaders go, they're just.. erm... How can I put it.. They make things look neat. Very very very neat. You've seen the 'water' effect of hl2? that's a shader. The bump mapped brick walls that look like its actually 3d, but its actually an illusion as the entire wall is 1 polygon? Also shaders. That's a brief overview anyway... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I can give the reasoning for that

    They haven't completed writing the RAD and VIS tools required. ATM they're using ye olde compiler and ye olde graphic engine w/ improvements.

    Proof? Strider video.
    The walls broke unrealisticably, like in HL. Be also reminded that they said they were building it off the HL engine so there's a possibility some of HL was left behind there in the preview.
    Why left behind? The answer is simple.....

    Placeholder <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    do I need to explain shadow volumes to you people?
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  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    The requirements were something like 600mhz/800mhz or something

    128mb ram, *TNT2 32mb video card* <---that shocked me the most.


    Thats the minimum that has been thrown around.
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  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I have a crappy 1.2Ghz processor but the rest of my system is pretty good. Still, if the lighting system in HL2 is seriously as bad as DOOM says it is then the game just lot a lot of respect in the graphics department.
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+Apr 17 2004, 03:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Apr 17 2004, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Be also reminded that they said they were building it off the HL engine so there's a possibility some of HL was left behind there in the preview. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, Source is supposed to be completely from scratch.

    And considering that they are licensing it to other people, if there IS any bit of half-life 1 code left in there they are going to be sued by id, because Half-life uses licensed id technology as a foundation.
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  • MonkfishMonkfish Sonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed&#33; Join Date: 2003-06-03 Member: 16972Members
    Its a good thing ubisoft werent making it ...

    *gf4mx users* "wow hl2 im gonna buy me that"
    *ubisoft* "OLO YOUR GFX CARD IS TOO CRAPY BUY NEW ONE!!11111"
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  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Members
    There has to be some form of original Half-Life code in there (...perhaps written again for no reason <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) if it's going to be able to compile current HL mods in the engine.

    Unless the mods have to make changes to their code...but I assumed they'd just get a compiler and be able to run the game on HL2.
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  • DrSuredeathDrSuredeath Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8217Members
    edited April 2004
    I'm giving a lotta respect for the developers for this one.

    I don't really buy the argument, "Give the developers all the tools they need."

    Average Joe like me don't know what the heck is the difference between the sound cards, much less the (Insert Technical Jargon here) lighting and (another Jargon here) lighting.

    If they can scale the game that far back for the good of everyone and still appeals to the high end machine, thumbs up for them.
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  • XythXyth Avatar Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22312Members
    You people who are critizing the HL2 engine <i>based souly on really old demo video that was released half a year ago</i> need to rethink some stuff...
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  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Xyth+Apr 18 2004, 06:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xyth @ Apr 18 2004, 06:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You people who are critizing the HL2 engine <i>based souly on really old demo video that was released half a year ago</i> need to rethink some stuff... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Exactly. New stuff is coming out over the next few weeks (especially at E3) so let's just see how the game looks presently.
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Well, there is one thing I'm really excited about that no other game has done yet(that I know of): Damage effects on models.

    That is gonna be SO cool.
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  • Har_Har_the_PirateHar_Har_the_Pirate Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19388Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 18 2004, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 18 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, there is one thing I'm really excited about that no other game has done yet(that I know of): Damage effects on models.

    That is gonna be SO cool. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    well some games have, like soldier of fortune, unless ur talking bout something else
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Apr 18 2004, 05:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Apr 18 2004, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless the mods have to make changes to their code...but I assumed they'd just get a compiler and be able to run the game on HL2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, it doesn't work that way. You won't be able to just put NS in your hl2 directory and have it start working...

    The HL2 SDK is supposed to be very similar to the HL1 SDK, with similar classes and methods and etc, but the core engine itself should be an entirely different animal.

    And as far as not judging something from 1 year old information, its better than judging it from complete rumors and speculation...
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  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 18 2004, 07:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 18 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    And as far as not judging something from 1 year old information, its better than judging it from complete rumors and speculation... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's better to not judge at all <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-dirtygabbsnevada+Apr 18 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dirtygabbsnevada @ Apr 18 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 18 2004, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 18 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, there is one thing I'm really excited about that no other game has done yet(that I know of): Damage effects on models.

    That is gonna be SO cool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    well some games have, like soldier of fortune, unless ur talking bout something else <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hasn't been done before?

    I can go on and on listing games where it has:

    Soldier of Fortune (the one that used the Quake 2 engine)
    Soldier of Fortune 2
    Jedi Knight 2 (blaster marks on stormtroopers)
    Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
    Max Payne 2
    Painkiller
    Black & White
    ...

    Yeah, that's nothing new...
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  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 18 2004, 07:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 18 2004, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-dirtygabbsnevada+Apr 18 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dirtygabbsnevada @ Apr 18 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 18 2004, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 18 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, there is one thing I'm really excited about that no other game has done yet(that I know of): Damage effects on models.

    That is gonna be SO cool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    well some games have, like soldier of fortune, unless ur talking bout something else <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hasn't been done before?

    I can go on and on listing games where it has:

    Soldier of Fortune (the one that used the Quake 2 engine)
    Soldier of Fortune 2
    Jedi Knight 2 (blaster marks on stormtroopers)
    Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
    Max Payne 2
    Painkiller
    Black & White
    ...

    Yeah, that's nothing new... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Far Cry does it pretty well.
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Max Payne did it? I never saw any specific bullet holes in him. And SoF does it differently, with the model, and frankly- it looks like crap when it does( 1 & 2), at least IMO.

    Either way, HL2 will be the best game evar, so ha.
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  • HybridclawHybridclaw Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22271Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 18 2004, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 18 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Either way, HL2 will be the best game evar, so ha.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    hmmm...
    it will be competeing against Halo 2 and Doom 3.........

    <span style='color:red'>The battle of the games is amoung us!!!!!</span>
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  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Hybridclaw+Apr 18 2004, 10:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hybridclaw @ Apr 18 2004, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 18 2004, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 18 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Either way, HL2 will be the best game evar, so ha.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    hmmm...
    it will be competeing against Halo 2 and Doom 3.........

    <span style='color:red'>The battle of the games is amoung us!!!!!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Gordon's beard wins by default.
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    I don't think Halo 2 even factors in. Sleek, sexy high-end computing rig... versus mid-low end computer with a green circle sticker slapped on it.

    Personally, I'm more looking forward to HL2. Sure, DooM 3 will be pretty as all get-out. But I doubt it'll deliver more than a very pretty place to shoot stuff up.
    Half-Life 2 will present a whole storyline... a world to immerse yourself in and follow. Not to mention the difference between the mod support between the two.. personally, I'd back Valve just for that aspect of it.
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