Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
doesent c-d work doifferently then vac?
Vac detects cheats, while C-d interupts the flow of info from the player to the server or something... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
CD does CunningTricks so that aimbots and wallhacks simply don't work. It moves all players who aren't visbile to you directly behind you so that wall hacks can't work, and does some strange jiggerypokery with moving all players around a bit so aimbots all miss. Prevents known AND unknown cheats from working. Some new cheats will get passed it, but it is updated very frequently (1* a month ish)
On a side-note: It's ok to disagree with someone. It's even ok to disagree with their opinions, but if you can't discuss your difference maturely, don't even think about hitting 'add reply'.</span>
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin--d0omie+Dec 11 2003, 05:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (d0omie @ Dec 11 2003, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CD does CunningTricks™ so that aimbots and wallhacks simply don't work. It moves all players who aren't visbile to you directly behind you so that wall hacks can't work, and does some strange jiggerypokery with moving all players around a bit so aimbots all miss. Prevents known AND unknown cheats from working. Some new cheats will get passed it, but it is updated very frequently (1* a month ish)
VAC just looks for cheats it knows and bans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> sounds like c-d is btter. I havent had any major probs with it....sometimes i open it too late and then i try to join a server and i get my files have been modified though....
I would vote CD if it worked. I start CD up, update it, join a server. And guess what? No CD logo! I have no idea why it does this, but I avoid cd servers like the plague because of this flaw.
<!--QuoteBegin--George_The_Gorge+Dec 11 2003, 06:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Dec 11 2003, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would vote CD if it worked. I start CD up, update it, join a server. And guess what? No CD logo! I have no idea why it does this, but I avoid cd servers like the plague because of this flaw. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Try re-downloading another copy of CD, or reinstall NS (or HL).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->im not one to know much cheats and anticheat programs, but there was this site telling how to spot and make cheaters game mizerable, like that aimbot that changed the color of the models and depending on your team your aim would automaticly go on the guy and with the color and lock onto him, if the cheaters terrorst, all you need is a blue spray, and the cheater would be stuck aiming at that spray, god the demo they put is HALAROUS!! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, that cheat is so old that even VAC could catch it. However, today cheats are MUCH more advanced than that, they lock onto models based on server side data that players are not ment to be able to access, most can lock onto a players head across the entire map and give you detailed information about them in the process; ie. hp, weapon used, and distance from yourself. they also come with a range of detailed options, like different points on the model that a player can chose to lock onto (in case you dont want to make your hacking too obvious) and toggleable everything (including wallhacks and anti recoil hacks). I would recomend that anyone who wants to know how to download an OCG demo vid (most anti cheat sites will have one) and take note of the way the hook behaves as it locks onto people, seeing it done in a gaurenteed hacking context makes it really easy to spot without all the bells and whistles that the hacker is seeing on thier screen.
C-D is really not that much better than VAC, both are very easy to circumvent. the only reason that C-D works so much better than vac, is that if a hacker sees that C-D is requried for a server, he is much more likely to go somewhere else that will be easyer to hack undetected. Never assume that godly player with the little C-D icon by his name is not hacking, many of the best hackers will do this to trick people, they simply run a hack that circumvents C-D and C-D at the same time so that they can hack to thier hearts content with little or no people acusing them, ie. free frustration. Although the former isn't the most common situation we see, it is very possible, and requires little work to achive. The only guarenteed way to catch a hacker is to catch his hacks in action, so if you see a hacker, dont bother acusing him, just go to spectator and record a nice little demo of his hacks in action, im sure the server admin would love to see it.
[Edit] PS. we'd love to see the dem too if you catch someone hacking.
Swiftspear, your words are very true, however I must disagree that CD is very easy to circumvent. It's actually quite a challenge to find a loophole and inject yourself into the game. And with the CD updating this frequently (VAC updates once / year) they're really making it pain in the **** for the coders.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->they simply run a hack that circumvents C-D and C-D at the same time so that they can hack to thier hearts content with little or no people acusing them, ie. free frustration.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
According to UA themselves that particular cheat(which pretends to be the cheating death client but does not disrupt the use of cheats) has not been functioning for several updates, and there aren't others like it that work.
Contrary to what everyone wishes to believe, C-D is very difficult to get by, only the newest and hardest to find hacks get by it, and once C-D finds these hacks, guess what?
They change about 10 lines in the code of C-D and release a new version of it, and the hackers have to make an entire new program...
Basically, either the hackers are gonna quit due to frustration, or they will find and kill the C-D team, or they will continue with their meaningless lives of ruining competetive play in HL mods.
I feel more protected from cheaters when playing a CD game. Plus CD seems to update more frequently. I don't believe VAC is a good anti-cheat solution. just my experiences from playing Dod and NS. You still can't beat having a good admin though.
While VAC has the potential to be a reasonably effective cheat protection (it's like DRM: you can't ask technology to defeat technology), they don't seem to be putting enough effort into it for it to reach that potential.
C-D, on the other hand, gets much more attention from its developers. It shows. For now at least, C-D is a better choice.
It's interesting to note that if Valve put in more than 10 bucks a year into VAC, it would probably be the best form of anti-cheats around. All valve has to do is sink a little money into it, and in no time we could have class 1 cheat protection.
VAC could end up costing hackers alot of money compared to C-D which just minorly annoys them. I agree, all it would take is a little more money sunk into it, you'd think all the extra copies of halflife being bought might balance out the costs of keeping VAC uber L337.
Nope, Vac is outdated, in the following hours of recent VAC update a promenent member of the hacking scene released a updated version of his hack. Rendering VAC useless...oh wait...IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN USELESS!.....
thats kinda the problem isnt it, VAC needs to be updated more often, and less obviously, to catch more hackers more often. Once a hacker is caught by VAC they pretty much have to by a new copy of halflife, so in that respect it is capable of being much more effective than C-D.
<!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Dec 12 2003, 05:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Dec 12 2003, 05:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thats kinda the problem isnt it, VAC needs to be updated more often, and less obviously, to catch more hackers more often. Once a hacker is caught by VAC they pretty much have to by a new copy of halflife, so in that respect it is capable of being much more effective than C-D. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, that makes it less effective, as C-D will stop you entirely from hacking, VAC just means you buy another copy of HL and you DL a different hack online and try to log on a server again and see if VAC stops you.
On the other hand, if VAC was actually effective, they could make a nice little profit if hackers were determined enough to get around VAC but ended up buying several copies of HL in the process. The money is then sunk back into VAC, which then the cheaters must buy another copy of HL... and so on.
CD isnt a hassel at all, at most its like a 200k download, and it probably updates once every 2 weeks, now if you cant be arsed to download a tiny 200k program to stop MOST cheats then why are you complaining?
if you get annoyed because you have to run it each time get a program like HLSW (anyone still using the HL default game join = LOL) which will automatically detect a CD server and launch it when you join the game. its very simple and takes virtually no effort.
Something funny I noticed, recently valve breaks CD with <b>every</b> update without giving any warning to UD. So I'm beginning to wonder if they're trying to get rid of CD, they say they've always seen themselves as part of the community, I'm beginning to doubt that.
Errr... are there NS-specific cheats? I was under the impression that the cheats used in NS were originally designed for more popular mods.
Anyway, I'm a bit disappointed in VAC, but to claim it does nothing is just stupid. I see at least one person every day get busted by it. You know that message that just pops up very briefly? "Mr.Hax0r has been yada yadya", that's someone getting banned for 5 years.
Now that they've limited steam accounts to one per valid email+cdkey, the cheaters will be having trouble getting back on so I have high hopes for the future.
If you just want cheat protection right now though, CD is the answer.
Judging by the general replies in this thread, it seems like the consensus is that VAC is fairly useless. And if I understand the situation correctly, once NS goes onto Steam we'll have no choice; VAC will be the only thing we can use, right? Don't get me wrong; the idea behind both Steam and VAC seem solid, but the implimentation so far has been lackluster to say the least. What will this mean for NS? Will the game lose or gain players? Will people be willing to trust VAC? Because judging by this thread, that doesn't seem to be the case.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Dec 12 2003, 09:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Dec 12 2003, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On the other hand, if VAC was actually effective, they could make a nice little profit if hackers were determined enough to get around VAC but ended up buying several copies of HL in the process. The money is then sunk back into VAC, which then the cheaters must buy another copy of HL... and so on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is: VAC isn't accurate enough to determine who is actually cheating yet. Anyone want to be banned forever because of changing somethat that has no effect on gameplay? Or a little bit of data corruption gets detected as a hack?
As it stands, VAC probably has more false alarms than it does successes.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Dec 13 2003, 12:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Dec 13 2003, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Judging by the general replies in this thread, it seems like the consensus is that VAC is fairly useless. And if I understand the situation correctly, once NS goes onto Steam we'll have no choice; VAC will be the only thing we can use, right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It is possible to use CD after it gets onto Steam however for some completely retarded reason with every steam-update also comes with a "Break-tEh-CD" update, I don't know why, but I think it's really impolite by valve to ignore the hard working UD like that especially when valve said that they felt they were part of the community.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Dec 12 2003, 08:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Dec 12 2003, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Contrary to what everyone wishes to believe, C-D is very difficult to get by, only the newest and hardest to find hacks get by it, and once C-D finds these hacks, guess what?
They change about 10 lines in the code of C-D and release a new version of it, and the hackers have to make an entire new program...
Basically, either the hackers are gonna quit due to frustration, or they will find and kill the C-D team, or they will continue with their meaningless lives of ruining competetive play in HL mods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> meta² has C-D proof built in. I have personally tested it so that i can vouch for its validity, and it indeed works.
this is not intended to induce unconstructive flaming, but you seriously don't know what you're talking about
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Dec 12 2003, 04:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Dec 12 2003, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's interesting to note that if Valve put in more than 10 bucks a year into VAC, it would probably be the best form of anti-cheats around. All valve has to do is sink a little money into it, and in no time we could have class 1 cheat protection. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i'd like to know how you figure this conclusively? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> that's a rather bold assumption... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Dec 12 2003, 09:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Dec 12 2003, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Dec 12 2003, 05:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Dec 12 2003, 05:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thats kinda the problem isnt it, VAC needs to be updated more often, and less obviously, to catch more hackers more often. Once a hacker is caught by VAC they pretty much have to by a new copy of halflife, so in that respect it is capable of being much more effective than C-D. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, that makes it less effective, as C-D will stop you entirely from hacking, VAC just means you buy another copy of HL and you DL a different hack online and try to log on a server again and see if VAC stops you.
On the other hand, if VAC was actually effective, they could make a nice little profit if hackers were determined enough to get around VAC but ended up buying several copies of HL in the process. The money is then sunk back into VAC, which then the cheaters must buy another copy of HL... and so on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you bring up an excellent point, i always wondered how they could alienate the average PC user who just tries a hack for kicks and finds themselves bannd for 5 years.. how could they do such a thing? a month is fine, to teach them the lesson... but 5 years?
its obvious why they do such a thing; so that you'll buy another copy of the game and give them more money. there's no other explination
Comments
Vac detects cheats, while C-d interupts the flow of info from the player to the server or something... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
VAC just looks for cheats it knows and bans.
On a side-note: It's ok to disagree with someone. It's even ok to disagree with their opinions, but if you can't discuss your difference maturely, don't even think about hitting 'add reply'.</span>
VAC just looks for cheats it knows and bans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
sounds like c-d is btter. I havent had any major probs with it....sometimes i open it too late and then i try to join a server and i get my files have been modified though....
Try re-downloading another copy of CD, or reinstall NS (or HL).
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, that cheat is so old that even VAC could catch it. However, today cheats are MUCH more advanced than that, they lock onto models based on server side data that players are not ment to be able to access, most can lock onto a players head across the entire map and give you detailed information about them in the process; ie. hp, weapon used, and distance from yourself. they also come with a range of detailed options, like different points on the model that a player can chose to lock onto (in case you dont want to make your hacking too obvious) and toggleable everything (including wallhacks and anti recoil hacks). I would recomend that anyone who wants to know how to download an OCG demo vid (most anti cheat sites will have one) and take note of the way the hook behaves as it locks onto people, seeing it done in a gaurenteed hacking context makes it really easy to spot without all the bells and whistles that the hacker is seeing on thier screen.
C-D is really not that much better than VAC, both are very easy to circumvent. the only reason that C-D works so much better than vac, is that if a hacker sees that C-D is requried for a server, he is much more likely to go somewhere else that will be easyer to hack undetected. Never assume that godly player with the little C-D icon by his name is not hacking, many of the best hackers will do this to trick people, they simply run a hack that circumvents C-D and C-D at the same time so that they can hack to thier hearts content with little or no people acusing them, ie. free frustration. Although the former isn't the most common situation we see, it is very possible, and requires little work to achive. The only guarenteed way to catch a hacker is to catch his hacks in action, so if you see a hacker, dont bother acusing him, just go to spectator and record a nice little demo of his hacks in action, im sure the server admin would love to see it.
[Edit] PS. we'd love to see the dem too if you catch someone hacking.
According to UA themselves that particular cheat(which pretends to be the cheating death client but does not disrupt the
use of cheats) has not been functioning for several updates, and there aren't others like it that work.
They change about 10 lines in the code of C-D and release a new version of it, and the hackers have to make an entire new program...
Basically, either the hackers are gonna quit due to frustration, or they will find and kill the C-D team, or they will continue with their meaningless lives of ruining competetive play in HL mods.
C-D, on the other hand, gets much more attention from its developers. It shows. For now at least, C-D is a better choice.
Actually, that makes it less effective, as C-D will stop you entirely from hacking, VAC just means you buy another copy of HL and you DL a different hack online and try to log on a server again and see if VAC stops you.
On the other hand, if VAC was actually effective, they could make a nice little profit if hackers were determined enough to get around VAC but ended up buying several copies of HL in the process. The money is then sunk back into VAC, which then the cheaters must buy another copy of HL... and so on.
if you get annoyed because you have to run it each time get a program like HLSW (anyone still using the HL default game join = LOL) which will automatically detect a CD server and launch it when you join the game. its very simple and takes virtually no effort.
Anyway, I'm a bit disappointed in VAC, but to claim it does nothing is just stupid. I see at least one person every day get busted by it. You know that message that just pops up very briefly? "Mr.Hax0r has been yada yadya", that's someone getting banned for 5 years.
Now that they've limited steam accounts to one per valid email+cdkey, the cheaters will be having trouble getting back on so I have high hopes for the future.
If you just want cheat protection right now though, CD is the answer.
The thing is: VAC isn't accurate enough to determine who is actually cheating yet. Anyone want to be banned forever because of changing somethat that has no effect on gameplay? Or a little bit of data corruption gets detected as a hack?
As it stands, VAC probably has more false alarms than it does successes.
It is possible to use CD after it gets onto Steam however for some completely retarded reason with every steam-update also comes with a "Break-tEh-CD" update, I don't know why, but I think it's really impolite by valve to ignore the hard working UD like that especially when valve said that they felt they were part of the community.
They change about 10 lines in the code of C-D and release a new version of it, and the hackers have to make an entire new program...
Basically, either the hackers are gonna quit due to frustration, or they will find and kill the C-D team, or they will continue with their meaningless lives of ruining competetive play in HL mods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
meta² has C-D proof built in. I have personally tested it so that i can vouch for its validity, and it indeed works.
this is not intended to induce unconstructive flaming, but you seriously don't know what you're talking about
i'd like to know how you figure this conclusively? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> that's a rather bold assumption... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually, that makes it less effective, as C-D will stop you entirely from hacking, VAC just means you buy another copy of HL and you DL a different hack online and try to log on a server again and see if VAC stops you.
On the other hand, if VAC was actually effective, they could make a nice little profit if hackers were determined enough to get around VAC but ended up buying several copies of HL in the process. The money is then sunk back into VAC, which then the cheaters must buy another copy of HL... and so on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you bring up an excellent point, i always wondered how they could alienate the average PC user who just tries a hack for kicks and finds themselves bannd for 5 years.. how could they do such a thing? a month is fine, to teach them the lesson... but 5 years?
its obvious why they do such a thing; so that you'll buy another copy of the game and give them more money. there's no other explination