<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Would you like a tutorial on how to move the mouse with your hand in coordination with your eyes, also referred to as 'aiming', as well? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
reposted for your your benefit rennex:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im sorry but you simply cant compare tactics and aiming to bunnyhopping.
- Good aim and tactics can be worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others (now that we decent spectating modes). Both can easily be self taught. Both are intuitive.
-Bunnyhopping however is much more technical, involving a special combination of button and mouse movements. It is something that a new player has no hope of learning on his own. Granted, if a player is tutored, the technique is easily learnt and perfected. Otherwise their simply left confused and flustrated - that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Last.+Nov 8 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Nov 8 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--e.Nadagast+Nov 8 2003, 12:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Nov 8 2003, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a limit. I'd love it if there was no bhop cap OMG :o so much fun <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> showoff <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh what?
@Dead_Dan "In eclipse, if you're a good bunny hopper with celerity, you can go from Maint hive to Eclipse hive in about 5-7 seconds with one leap."
I'd love to see your demo. If there was a flat direct route from Maint to Eclipse this MIGHT be possible but I'm absolutely sure it's impossible with the map in the way.
Fastest I could do it (from hive room to hive room) with Celerity and 1 leap was about 10 seconds.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dead_Dan+Nov 8 2003, 05:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Nov 8 2003, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can get double the speed. With celerity you can go many, many times faster with bhop that a running skulk (with cel). In eclipse, if you're a good bunny hopper with celerity, you can go from Maint hive to Eclipse hive in about 5-7 seconds with one leap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suggest you watch an 11 second run:
11 seconds is pretty far from 5-7.... and like I said... I did it in about 9-10 seconds. Shaving off another 3-5 seconds would be very very hard if not impossible though. I did go through Triad instead of back side EC, which might've hurt my time.
<!--QuoteBegin--UKchaos+Nov 8 2003, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Nov 8 2003, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Would you like a tutorial on how to move the mouse with your hand in coordination with your eyes, also referred to as 'aiming', as well? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
reposted for your your benefit rennex:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im sorry but you simply cant compare tactics and aiming to bunnyhopping.
- Good aim and tactics can be worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others (now that we decent spectating modes). Both can easily be self taught. Both are intuitive.
-Bunnyhopping however is much more technical, involving a special combination of button and mouse movements. It is something that a new player has no hope of learning on his own. Granted, if a player is tutored, the technique is easily learnt and perfected. Otherwise their simply left confused and flustrated - that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Re-double-dual-squared posted for your benefit whoever did it:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just read that and ull get there eventually...just dont try it with CS cause it dont work with CS...whatever he tells you to do apply it to somewhere in NS...i would say like the long hallway above viaduct hive...
Bunnyhopping IS intuitive for anyone whos ever heard of half-life. and considering the game is what, 5+ years old, as is quake, you should now how to do it. Or you might be in a server, see a guy going 2x normal speed, and say "hey, how are you going 2x normal speed?. " problem solved
Or you could learn how to do it and quit bitching all together. Its not too late to learn how, I'm just now learning how to do it on my own, with a little advice from maven and nadagast. It's an important skill to be a better alien player. Notice how I said "skill".
So your answering my post by repeating it back to me?, does that mean you agree?
Or, are you suggesting that a player can discover the strafe jumping technique on his own simply by observation and without any tutoring?
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
RiotingNerd:
Actually most players (expecially new ones) have no knowledge of the quirks of the quake/half-life engine so they cant work it out that way. Asking another player in game is how I found out about it, but that was when it was considered a bug. Now that its a feature, the game should teach you, not its players.
Again i must stress, im not againt bunnyhopping in ns, i just dont like the way its kept below boards.
i learned bhopping in beta 7.2 for CS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think almost any game made based on the quake engines has some form of bunnyhopping. Some people just get confused with strafe jumping and bunny hopping....its only when you link strafejumps together properly can you start to bunnyhop, in quakeworld its fairly easy and in the early cs it was pretty difficult, I'm sure its possible in NS
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Nadagast+Nov 8 2003, 08:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Nov 8 2003, 08:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Last.+Nov 8 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Nov 8 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--e.Nadagast+Nov 8 2003, 12:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Nov 8 2003, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a limit. I'd love it if there was no bhop cap OMG :o so much fun <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> showoff <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh what?
@Dead_Dan "In eclipse, if you're a good bunny hopper with celerity, you can go from Maint hive to Eclipse hive in about 5-7 seconds with one leap."
I'd love to see your demo. If there was a flat direct route from Maint to Eclipse this MIGHT be possible but I'm absolutely sure it's impossible with the map in the way.
Fastest I could do it (from hive room to hive room) with Celerity and 1 leap was about 10 seconds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok 5-7 seconds might have been pushing it but I do think it is very possible. You have to be a very skilled bhopper (I've been doing this since the early tfc days when soldier could go up to 20x faster than scout, ah no caps were fun!) and get pretty damn lucky on 1 area of it. I'll install the game again tommorow and try for a 5-7 second run.
<!--QuoteBegin--UKchaos+Nov 8 2003, 10:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Nov 8 2003, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or, are you suggesting that a player can discover the strafe jumping technique on his own simply by observation and without any tutoring?
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
Well, most people probably already know that I don't have a high opinion of the veteran program, but that aside, I have to agree with eggmac. This topic is bullsh1t. Shut the **** up.
<!--QuoteBegin--Rennex+Nov 9 2003, 02:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Nov 9 2003, 02:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--UKchaos+Nov 8 2003, 10:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Nov 8 2003, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or, are you suggesting that a player can discover the strafe jumping technique on his own simply by observation and without any tutoring?
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
<!--QuoteBegin--UKchaos+Nov 8 2003, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Nov 8 2003, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually most players (expecially new ones) have no knowledge of the quirks of the quake/half-life engine so they cant work it out that way. Asking another player in game is how I found out about it, but that was when it was considered a bug. Now that its a feature, the game should teach you, not its players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So should there also be guides on how to devour properly? Should it include the "expliots" that can be acheived from that, which have been accepted (the massive range etc.)?
Honestly, you ahve to draw the line somewhere, you cant hold the hand of the player the entire game. Let them discover it themselves.
so is it right that a more skilled alien runs faster than a less skilled alien? seems counterintuitive to the whole idea of RTS/FPS.
tonight my clan (9th in cal) scrimmed another (tied in score 10th in cal). we were fighting for a spot in the playoffs.
they could bhop, and managed to set up ambushes around the map in amazing time, covering every potential marine RT. we could not bhop and played a solid normal game, rushed fades, DC's etc. we got whooped.
okay, so i sound like a whiney nub to some of you, but think about it, should they really be allowed faster transit? it has nothing to do with tactics, nothing to do with skills or strategies, just who knows how to turn their mouse rhythmically and hit space at the exact right moment (which requires very high and stable framerates) and pulling strafe midair.
its excrutiatingly counterintuitive, counterproductive to the game, and the requirement of high stable frames is even worse!
i know my words will change no ones mind on the subject, but i want them heard.
People keep saying bhop is nothing but coordination of mouse/keyboard.
What is aim then?
Bhop needs a **bit** more coordination, but even newbies can learn it good, other then becoming good at bhopping requires a bit of practice.
I can sum up the topic in a few short words.
"OMGZ!!! TEH ALIANS CAN JUMPZ LIEK TEH BUNNIEZ OF DEWM!!! NURF!!! NURF!!!!!!!!!111oneoneoneeleven"
If you feel that Bhopping is an exploit, set up your own server and ban anyone that bhops. Until it's considered an official exploit by the dev team, you will simply have to deal with it and adapt to it.
Sure, that skulk can come at you and close the distance in seconds, but a simple side strafe at the right time and you can pummel him as he runs right past you. If he's truly elite, then he'll bite you as he glances by. Thats either an aimbot or supreme skill.
Like it or not, Bhop stays so long as the devs dont consider it an exploit.
FFS, if bunnyhopping was supposed to be in the game they would just have you move at that speed... I find it amusing that people don't realize that any idiot can bhop... its just not intended... and just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. I am all about evasion and working around getting a kill... but turboing around the map is lameness that was never intended to be a part of the game... celerity is part of the game get it if you want to move faster! Of course this will be the part where vets come and call me a nub and all that, even though I have been gaming longer than some of them have been alive, I try to play the game, the way it was supposed to be played, I like my NS like my coke VANILLA! Sadly the game that Flayra and the devs put forth is not good enough for some people.. so they take the HL/quake gameflaw and make it not only acceptable, but manditory for several NSD teams and Clans... I shouldn't be such a nub really I mean I only got NS on day 1 so I plainly have no credibilty anyway...
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> check out my "elite" b hop! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> I can outrun marines with my bhop <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> I got you all licked... I mean somone with my build is ment to bounce around like a jackrabbit... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> ... dont look at me I was in a killer CS clan I already have 1337zor hop 5K11z
Let me explain why I think Bunnyhopping is important to the game.
Marines are normal FPS units. And, like all FPS, to be a really good marine you have to have a lot of skill. Skulks on the other hand, don't really need aim. You have to be able to bite someone jumping around I suppose, but I don't see this being as skillfull as someone with really good aim. Bunnyhopping closes this gap in my opinion. In order to be a really good skulk, you have to spend the time it takes to get good at bunnyhopping. Why is this so horrible? It gives the good players an alternative to camping over a doorway for 5 min. Even then camping over a doorway is better. I just get bored with it. I can get just as much speed as Nad, and it is not 3x the speed. Believe me, bunnyhopping now feels VERY slow compared to the way it used to be. It just seems to be 3x the speed if you're on the wrong end of it. I also know that 1 good player can consitantly knock me down even if I am going full speed. A good ambush spot always gets me more kills than just ramboing around the map using bunnyhopping. Distance is the deciding factor here, just as it is with a normal skulk. Also, multiple bunnyhopping aliens usually don't work that great, because they tend to hit each other and slow each other down. I also don't notice much of a speed increase with a celerity bunnyhopping skulk. Maybe someone can correct me on this, but that was the way it seemed when I tried it.
I think the important thing is this: Bunnyhopping DOES balance the game, in a way that simple increased skulk speed would not. Bunnyhopping gives players a speed advantage, but ONLY experienced players. If you gave everyone a skulk speed increase, then servers with less experienced players would be alien dominated, because they wouldn't have skilled marines to counter the unskilled but now faster aliens. Bunnyhopping balances the skill element of the game, and that is why it should stay.
I would hate to see NS follow the path CS took, which is to make everything as easy and as chance filled as possible. I understand the need to cater to newer players, but I also like to see experience players rewarded for the time they have put into the game. I don't want to see bunnyhopping removed, recoil added to marines, fades slowed down but given more health, and that sort of thing to produce the same results regardless of skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--Rennex+Nov 9 2003, 07:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Nov 9 2003, 07:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--UKchaos+Nov 8 2003, 10:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Nov 8 2003, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or, are you suggesting that a player can discover the strafe jumping technique on his own simply by observation and without any tutoring?
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. That was how I learned. It just took me a week to get really good at it. All you have to do is ask someone, get a verbal description, spec them a little, and then try. I'm not saying it is EASY, it takes work, but that is what skill is about: IT SHOULD TAKE WORK TO GET GOOD.
I regret I allowed this thread to go on for so long. Despite some very good posts in the last ten replies, I'm <span style='color:red'>***locking***</span> it now for unnecessaryily hostile behaviour on the side of too many of you. Note that the next person telling someone to 'shut up', 'S.T.F.U.', 'SUYF', or what have you, will get a free one week cooldown period. Get a grip and realize that you're talking to humans.
Comments
reposted for your your benefit rennex:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im sorry but you simply cant compare tactics and aiming to bunnyhopping.
- Good aim and tactics can be worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others (now that we decent spectating modes). Both can easily be self taught. Both are intuitive.
-Bunnyhopping however is much more technical, involving a special combination of button and mouse movements. It is something that a new player has no hope of learning on his own. Granted, if a player is tutored, the technique is easily learnt and perfected. Otherwise their simply left confused and flustrated - that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
showoff <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh what?
@Dead_Dan "In eclipse, if you're a good bunny hopper with celerity, you can go from Maint hive to Eclipse hive in about 5-7 seconds with one leap."
I'd love to see your demo. If there was a flat direct route from Maint to Eclipse this MIGHT be possible but I'm absolutely sure it's impossible with the map in the way.
Fastest I could do it (from hive room to hive room) with Celerity and 1 leap was about 10 seconds.
I suggest you watch an 11 second run:
<a href='http://www.oclube.com/usuarios/teoh/ec2.rar' target='_blank'>http://www.oclube.com/usuarios/teoh/ec2.rar</a>
and then re-evaluate that 5 second statement.
edit: bleh he posted first with an edit, underhanded tactics i tell you..
reposted for your your benefit rennex:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im sorry but you simply cant compare tactics and aiming to bunnyhopping.
- Good aim and tactics can be worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others (now that we decent spectating modes). Both can easily be self taught. Both are intuitive.
-Bunnyhopping however is much more technical, involving a special combination of button and mouse movements. It is something that a new player has no hope of learning on his own. Granted, if a player is tutored, the technique is easily learnt and perfected. Otherwise their simply left confused and flustrated - that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-double-dual-squared posted for your benefit whoever did it:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://members.tripod.com/evolution32/news.htm' target='_blank'>http://members.tripod.com/evolution32/news.htm</a>
just read that and ull get there eventually...just dont try it with CS cause it dont work with CS...whatever he tells you to do apply it to somewhere in NS...i would say like the long hallway above viaduct hive...
NOW SHUT UP
[edit]
SUYF/gtfo/bs
So your answering my post by repeating it back to me?, does that mean you agree?
Or, are you suggesting that a player can discover the strafe jumping technique on his own simply by observation and without any tutoring?
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
RiotingNerd:
Actually most players (expecially new ones) have no knowledge of the quirks of the quake/half-life engine so they cant work it out that way. Asking another player in game is how I found out about it, but that was when it was considered a bug. Now that its a feature, the game should teach you, not its players.
Again i must stress, im not againt bunnyhopping in ns, i just dont like the way its kept below boards.
So if you want to learn, read it, it's very well done.
showoff <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh what?
@Dead_Dan "In eclipse, if you're a good bunny hopper with celerity, you can go from Maint hive to Eclipse hive in about 5-7 seconds with one leap."
I'd love to see your demo. If there was a flat direct route from Maint to Eclipse this MIGHT be possible but I'm absolutely sure it's impossible with the map in the way.
Fastest I could do it (from hive room to hive room) with Celerity and 1 leap was about 10 seconds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok 5-7 seconds might have been pushing it but I do think it is very possible. You have to be a very skilled bhopper (I've been doing this since the early tfc days when soldier could go up to 20x faster than scout, ah no caps were fun!) and get pretty damn lucky on 1 area of it. I'll install the game again tommorow and try for a 5-7 second run.
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
So should there also be guides on how to devour properly? Should it include the "expliots" that can be acheived from that, which have been accepted (the massive range etc.)?
Honestly, you ahve to draw the line somewhere, you cant hold the hand of the player the entire game. Let them discover it themselves.
tonight my clan (9th in cal) scrimmed another (tied in score 10th in cal). we were fighting for a spot in the playoffs.
they could bhop, and managed to set up ambushes around the map in amazing time, covering every potential marine RT. we could not bhop and played a solid normal game, rushed fades, DC's etc. we got whooped.
okay, so i sound like a whiney nub to some of you, but think about it, should they really be allowed faster transit? it has nothing to do with tactics, nothing to do with skills or strategies, just who knows how to turn their mouse rhythmically and hit space at the exact right moment (which requires very high and stable framerates) and pulling strafe midair.
its excrutiatingly counterintuitive, counterproductive to the game, and the requirement of high stable frames is even worse!
i know my words will change no ones mind on the subject, but i want them heard.
What is aim then?
Bhop needs a **bit** more coordination, but even newbies can learn it good, other then becoming good at bhopping requires a bit of practice.
I can sum up the topic in a few short words.
"OMGZ!!! TEH ALIANS CAN JUMPZ LIEK TEH BUNNIEZ OF DEWM!!! NURF!!! NURF!!!!!!!!!111oneoneoneeleven"
If you feel that Bhopping is an exploit, set up your own server and ban anyone that bhops. Until it's considered an official exploit by the dev team, you will simply have to deal with it and adapt to it.
Sure, that skulk can come at you and close the distance in seconds, but a simple side strafe at the right time and you can pummel him as he runs right past you. If he's truly elite, then he'll bite you as he glances by. Thats either an aimbot or supreme skill.
Like it or not, Bhop stays so long as the devs dont consider it an exploit.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> check out my "elite" b hop!
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> I can outrun marines with my bhop
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> I got you all licked... I mean somone with my build is ment to bounce around like a jackrabbit... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> ... dont look at me I was in a killer CS clan I already have 1337zor hop 5K11z
Marines are normal FPS units. And, like all FPS, to be a really good marine you have to have a lot of skill. Skulks on the other hand, don't really need aim. You have to be able to bite someone jumping around I suppose, but I don't see this being as skillfull as someone with really good aim. Bunnyhopping closes this gap in my opinion. In order to be a really good skulk, you have to spend the time it takes to get good at bunnyhopping. Why is this so horrible? It gives the good players an alternative to camping over a doorway for 5 min. Even then camping over a doorway is better. I just get bored with it. I can get just as much speed as Nad, and it is not 3x the speed. Believe me, bunnyhopping now feels VERY slow compared to the way it used to be. It just seems to be 3x the speed if you're on the wrong end of it. I also know that 1 good player can consitantly knock me down even if I am going full speed. A good ambush spot always gets me more kills than just ramboing around the map using bunnyhopping. Distance is the deciding factor here, just as it is with a normal skulk. Also, multiple bunnyhopping aliens usually don't work that great, because they tend to hit each other and slow each other down. I also don't notice much of a speed increase with a celerity bunnyhopping skulk. Maybe someone can correct me on this, but that was the way it seemed when I tried it.
I think the important thing is this: Bunnyhopping DOES balance the game, in a way that simple increased skulk speed would not. Bunnyhopping gives players a speed advantage, but ONLY experienced players. If you gave everyone a skulk speed increase, then servers with less experienced players would be alien dominated, because they wouldn't have skilled marines to counter the unskilled but now faster aliens. Bunnyhopping balances the skill element of the game, and that is why it should stay.
I would hate to see NS follow the path CS took, which is to make everything as easy and as chance filled as possible. I understand the need to cater to newer players, but I also like to see experience players rewarded for the time they have put into the game. I don't want to see bunnyhopping removed, recoil added to marines, fades slowed down but given more health, and that sort of thing to produce the same results regardless of skill.
The technique - Speed benefit from carefully timed strafe jumps combined with the correct mouse movements. Is it fair to expect a player to grasp all that without any guidance - simply from watching another player in spec view?
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Agreed. That was how I learned. It just took me a week to get really good at it. All you have to do is ask someone, get a verbal description, spec them a little, and then try. I'm not saying it is EASY, it takes work, but that is what skill is about: IT SHOULD TAKE WORK TO GET GOOD.
Note that the next person telling someone to 'shut up', 'S.T.F.U.', 'SUYF', or what have you, will get a free one week cooldown period. Get a grip and realize that you're talking to humans.