<!--QuoteBegin--Mythr1l+Nov 8 2003, 03:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mythr1l @ Nov 8 2003, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh really now shut the **** up newbies, bunnyhopping was allowed to stay in 2.01, so stop whining about it just cos you get owned. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <3 myth
<!--QuoteBegin--Cronos+Nov 8 2003, 06:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Nov 8 2003, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Double - Triple speed? Now I know your exaggerating.
Air speeds are limited to about 1.5x base speed. It makes you a "little" faster, but not by much.
In any case, aliens are meant to be the mobile ones.
Marine Bhopping in 1.04 makes current alien bhopping look like molasses in subzero temprature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He's not exagerating. Good bhoppers can move VERY fast and make themselves very hard to hit.
I think bhopping is an essential alien skill -- maybe a lil overpowered, but not that bad really since most people cant bhop anyway. Might wanna consider adding a limit to the speed boost like they did for Science and Industry.
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Nadagast+Nov 8 2003, 12:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Nov 8 2003, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a limit. I'd love it if there was no bhop cap OMG :o so much fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> showoff
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Nadagast+Nov 8 2003, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Nov 8 2003, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a limit. I'd love it if there was no bhop cap OMG :o so much fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But the limit of a skulks bunny hop is definately NOT 1.5x normal skulk speed as eggmac suggested. Again, I am not whining/argueing that it should be changed, just correcting your false statement. If you need demos of skulks going more than 2x normal speed I will send.
Regardless of speed its not unbalanced at all. A skulk charges a a marine with let say the supposed 3x speed of bunny hopping he will get owned. I remember scrimming with er once and this one skulk could bunny hop the entire length of topo in 3 hops.. Well during game he did that against me, the lone marine in topo, and got owned halfway there. So my advice, aim better cause there is absolutely nothing wrong with bunny hopping. Although i will admit it does look weird when oni start hopping. Maybe they should take that one out.
[edit] this is in responce to the posts above insomnia's[/edit]
freaking yes it is, the limit is 1.5x the normal speed, I promise that you just think it's faster. If it was possible to go 3x as fast as normal speed, THEN we'd have a problem, but I can promise you that it does not go over 1.5x the normal speed if your just bhopping.
I remember airspeeds being increased beyond 1.5 for the JPers and Lerks. Definately JPers can fly very fast still. I think it was stated as being a bit more than 2x.
EDIT: OH YEAH FORGOT TO SAY. Three pages already. Godjob guys! ++
somebody go find a b-hop tutorial or whatever that lists the rates/speeds that can be attained in half life... then post a link, just so everybody will shut up.
as stated before, b-hop is there for aliens for a reason. I admire those that can do it. I watch and drool because I can't, but also don't feel like learning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->somebody go find a b-hop tutorial or whatever that lists the rates/speeds that can be attained in half life... then post a link, just so everybody will shut up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I think the airspeed is specific to this game only. I don't think looking up HL's maximum airspeed is going to solve anything. Should just ask Flayra.
yeah it's correct that it was increased for lerks and JPers, but Im very sure in the changelog it was stated that for everything else it stays at 1.5x.
Have you ever leaped like 3 times in a row before and felt how it just kind of doesnt go faster than a certain point? that would be the limit acting how it should...
what I don't get is that if they are indeed more agile, why they don't just make them go faster so everyone can be on equal foot, instead of having to learn to bh.
edit: to see how bhing would work, make a server, go in a large room with a FLAT ceiling, put 0 grav, jump, and just try to move around with the strafe keys while moving your mouse around <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> After some time you stop going faster, I believe.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nerdy+Nov 8 2003, 09:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nerdy @ Nov 8 2003, 09:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I mean running speed w/o celerity. Trust me. mediocre bunny hoppers can get 2x easily. Good ones can get up to 3x and even some a little more then 3x. If you don't believe me watch nadagast, su1c1dal maniac, remics, syckness, Maven. There many more people who can also do this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you (or anyone else) have a demo of this?
First of all, if indeed bunnyhopping is a recognized feature of the game, then lets discuss it like one. Lets analyze it, just as we would a new weapon or alien ability. Please dont reduce the issue down to petty insults or who is a greater "noob" (sigh).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bhopping isn't in the manual probably because it hasn't been updated.
Next, the technique is obscure, however, so is proper aim, or any good tatics with aliens/marines... and none of that is close to being listed in the manual. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sorry but you simply cant compare tactics and aiming to bunnyhopping.
- Good aim and tactics can be worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others (now that we decent spectating modes). Both can easily be self taught. Both are intuitive.
-Bunnyhopping however is much more technical, involving a special combination of button and mouse movements. It is something that a new player has no hope of learning on his own. Granted, if a player is tutored, the technique is easily learnt and perfected. Otherwise their simply left confused and flustrated - that is the problem.
Im not outright againt bunnyhopping, i respect those that can do it. I just want to see it properly intergrated and balanced rather than leaving it alone and hoping everything will work out.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cypher---GorgeLover+Nov 8 2003, 04:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cypher---GorgeLover @ Nov 8 2003, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah it's correct that it was increased for lerks and JPers, but Im very sure in the changelog it was stated that for everything else it stays at 1.5x.
Have you ever leaped like 3 times in a row before and felt how it just kind of doesnt go faster than a certain point? that would be the limit acting how it should... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* maybe people will never understand. Ill have to put a link up to a demo later I guess. Yes ofcourse as leaping you will notice the air speed max, but not as bhopping.
Yes, please show us the demo of your 3x bunny hopper, I'd enjoy seeing it.
Oh, and are you sure this wan't some guy with celerity, leap, or even a script of some kind? I'm not a Half-Life Engine Wizard so I don't know if a script could do this but there's always the chance of it...
Bhoping with celerity is just too fast. It can acually be literally IMPOSIBLE for the rine to kill a skulk sometimes because the skulk can hop across the room before your gun can dispense 3 bullets.
You can get double the speed. With celerity you can go many, many times faster with bhop that a running skulk (with cel). In eclipse, if you're a good bunny hopper with celerity, you can go from Maint hive to Eclipse hive in about 5-7 seconds with one leap.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Nov 8 2003, 04:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 8 2003, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To end one aspect of this discussion: Alien bhopping is being officially <b>accepted</b>. It is <b>not</b> an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then I think the rest of us would appreciate a tutorial as to how to get bunny hopping to work.
edit: My main complaint about BH has been that not every player knows how to do it (intuitively) Im pretty sure it involves hopping involves strafing in the direction you are hopping but I am not sure. As I am pretty sure that real life physics prevent such an occurance of speeding up just by jumping sideways repeatedly.
I just consider bunnyhoppers better target practice <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
4 pages now Zerg <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ++
<!--QuoteBegin--Daxx22+Nov 8 2003, 06:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Nov 8 2003, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just consider bunnyhoppers better target practice <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Same here.
They make great practise for those celerity skulks, which can help tremendously
Ah yes, although I hate to reitterate, bhopping will remain in NS, therefore it is not an exploit. Marine bhopping howerver, is.<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Have a nice day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (+1)
I tend to despise bunnyhop , it's a crude way of moving (it does look ugly when a gorge or onos bunnyhops) and somewhat feels h4x. Experienced bunnyhoppers probably think it's "natural"... I've stopped whining about this , move the way you like , speed isn't everything. You can't spiral on walls and ceilings while you bunnyhop. You can't even stomp as an onos !...
What's the use of dancing right in front of marines , when you can drop on them , wait until they step on your jaws , or silently follow them and backstab them. There's a reason the first Kharaa evolution is named "skulk" and not "speedy gonzales" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Other forms of hopping are usually fair because you can't exploit them all day. Blinkhop is vital to fades , they'd never have enoug energy to slap marines and blink back without it. Leap hop is only useful in big open spaces and can be blocked by complicated architecture (light fixtures , railings) Anyone ever tried bunnyhopping as a lerk ?
<!--QuoteBegin--Stakhanov+Nov 8 2003, 06:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Nov 8 2003, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone ever tried bunnyhopping as a lerk ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesn't work since when you jump it directly goes to flight mode.
But I do agree that the Onos and gorge look awful bhopping.....*imagines silenced cloak onos bhopping*
Gives me the shivers, thank god the maps are jump right for the onos to NOT bhop <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--wizard@psu+Nov 8 2003, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Nov 8 2003, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Nov 8 2003, 04:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 8 2003, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To end one aspect of this discussion: Alien bhopping is being officially <b>accepted</b>. It is <b>not</b> an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then I think the rest of us would appreciate a tutorial as to how to get bunny hopping to work.
edit: My main complaint about BH has been that not every player knows how to do it (intuitively) Im pretty sure it involves hopping involves strafing in the direction you are hopping but I am not sure. As I am pretty sure that real life physics prevent such an occurance of speeding up just by jumping sideways repeatedly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would you like a tutorial on how to move the mouse with your hand in coordination with your eyes, also referred to as 'aiming', as well?
Comments
<3 myth
Air speeds are limited to about 1.5x base speed. It makes you a "little" faster, but not by much.
In any case, aliens are meant to be the mobile ones.
Marine Bhopping in 1.04 makes current alien bhopping look like molasses in subzero temprature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not exagerating. Good bhoppers can move VERY fast and make themselves very hard to hit.
I think bhopping is an essential alien skill -- maybe a lil overpowered, but not that bad really since most people cant bhop anyway. Might wanna consider adding a limit to the speed boost like they did for Science and Industry.
showoff
But the limit of a skulks bunny hop is definately NOT 1.5x normal skulk speed as eggmac suggested. Again, I am not whining/argueing that it should be changed, just correcting your false statement. If you need demos of skulks going more than 2x normal speed I will send.
freaking yes it is, the limit is 1.5x the normal speed, I promise that you just think it's faster. If it was possible to go 3x as fast as normal speed, THEN we'd have a problem, but I can promise you that it does not go over 1.5x the normal speed if your just bhopping.
<b>You are wrong.</b>
skulks can indeed bhop faster then 2x normal speed.... seems like nada can go around 2.5, if he has enough lenght to get up his speed.
EDIT: OH YEAH FORGOT TO SAY. Three pages already. Godjob guys! ++
as stated before, b-hop is there for aliens for a reason. I admire those that can do it. I watch and drool because I can't, but also don't feel like learning.
No I think the airspeed is specific to this game only. I don't think looking up HL's maximum airspeed is going to solve anything. Should just ask Flayra.
Have you ever leaped like 3 times in a row before and felt how it just kind of doesnt go faster than a certain point? that would be the limit acting how it should...
edit: to see how bhing would work, make a server, go in a large room with a FLAT ceiling, put 0 grav, jump, and just try to move around with the strafe keys while moving your mouse around <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
After some time you stop going faster, I believe.
Do you (or anyone else) have a demo of this?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bhopping isn't in the manual probably because it hasn't been updated.
Next, the technique is obscure, however, so is proper aim, or any good tatics with aliens/marines... and none of that is close to being listed in the manual.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sorry but you simply cant compare tactics and aiming to bunnyhopping.
- Good aim and tactics can be worked out on your own by practise, common sense and observing others (now that we decent spectating modes). Both can easily be self taught. Both are intuitive.
-Bunnyhopping however is much more technical, involving a special combination of button and mouse movements. It is something that a new player has no hope of learning on his own. Granted, if a player is tutored, the technique is easily learnt and perfected. Otherwise their simply left confused and flustrated - that is the problem.
Im not outright againt bunnyhopping, i respect those that can do it. I just want to see it properly intergrated and balanced rather than leaving it alone and hoping everything will work out.
Have you ever leaped like 3 times in a row before and felt how it just kind of doesnt go faster than a certain point? that would be the limit acting how it should... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* maybe people will never understand. Ill have to put a link up to a demo later I guess. Yes ofcourse as leaping you will notice the air speed max, but not as bhopping.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and are you sure this wan't some guy with celerity, leap, or even a script of some kind? I'm not a Half-Life Engine Wizard so I don't know if a script could do this but there's always the chance of it...
Bhoping with celerity is just too fast. It can acually be literally IMPOSIBLE for the rine to kill a skulk sometimes because the skulk can hop across the room before your gun can dispense 3 bullets.
Then I think the rest of us would appreciate a tutorial as to how to get bunny hopping to work.
edit: My main complaint about BH has been that not every player knows how to do it (intuitively) Im pretty sure it involves hopping involves strafing in the direction you are hopping but I am not sure. As I am pretty sure that real life physics prevent such an occurance of speeding up just by jumping sideways repeatedly.
4 pages now Zerg <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ++
Same here.
They make great practise for those celerity skulks, which can help tremendously
Ah yes, although I hate to reitterate, bhopping will remain in NS, therefore it is not an exploit. Marine bhopping howerver, is.<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Have a nice day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (+1)
What's the use of dancing right in front of marines , when you can drop on them , wait until they step on your jaws , or silently follow them and backstab them. There's a reason the first Kharaa evolution is named "skulk" and not "speedy gonzales" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Other forms of hopping are usually fair because you can't exploit them all day. Blinkhop is vital to fades , they'd never have enoug energy to slap marines and blink back without it. Leap hop is only useful in big open spaces and can be blocked by complicated architecture (light fixtures , railings)
Anyone ever tried bunnyhopping as a lerk ?
Doesn't work since when you jump it directly goes to flight mode.
But I do agree that the Onos and gorge look awful bhopping.....*imagines silenced cloak onos bhopping*
Gives me the shivers, thank god the maps are jump right for the onos to NOT bhop <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then I think the rest of us would appreciate a tutorial as to how to get bunny hopping to work.
edit: My main complaint about BH has been that not every player knows how to do it (intuitively) Im pretty sure it involves hopping involves strafing in the direction you are hopping but I am not sure. As I am pretty sure that real life physics prevent such an occurance of speeding up just by jumping sideways repeatedly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you like a tutorial on how to move the mouse with your hand in coordination with your eyes, also referred to as 'aiming', as well?