Lerk Bite

CheesyPeteza · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">What are your views on it now?</div> First of all I cannot believe I am making this topic as I am just asking for flaming. But here goes anyway.

When Flayra did the poll asking whether lerks should keep their bite I voted against it. The reason being I was really annoyed with all the moaners and whiners on these forums who were not willing to try anything new. Insisting that Mother was called noname and saying that gorges can't have bile bomb and all sorts of other stuff I can't remember. Anyway I'm willing to try something new so thats why I put trust in Flayra and the testers to have bite removed.

Well we have all tried it and I'd like to know your views now. I personally don't find lerk as much fun anymore. Flying was a skill that had to be mastered to fly into and area of marines, umbra, bite and the leave. Now it is just a method to get from one place to another and is rarely used in combat. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

It would be good if someone could do a poll on one of the ns fan sites too see what the results would be now that we have all tried it out.

(Yes I know there is a plugin that enables it)

DarkFrost · October 2003

I loved 1.0 lerk, it was just immense, the lerk was perfect, the HP and armour was fine. the way umbra worked, was fine, the time to learn was about a week to use it properly. I fully agreed with primal scream being part of the lerk, but preferably the spores would have been removed, as it has done what i had imagined, we have a whole air force of "elite spore lerks" who never umbra, never spike and never primal scream, they find a spot and spore all game, even when the HA is coming, they spore spore spore, even after being told HA is immune to it.

I would like lerks HP and armour back how they were, and bite replacing spores as 1 hive ability, spikes seem weaker now also <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> - destroyed

I now fade, as fade now takes the skill the lerks of old took, I dont understand why lerk was nubbed so badly <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

*edit* - How many people who voted for the new lerk, were lerk players, i mean the kind who had lerked since the first day they played (yes even thro all that 1k ping <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>), Those of us who did, know that we supported the team better in 1.0 than lerks can ever hope to do now.

I know myself, cheezy, that you were not a fan of one hive lerks, but we stopped JP/HMG rush, Lerks were the balance, Those JPers intent on taking the hive were easy pickings as we could fly easier and packed a puch...

/me goes into a daydream, remembering saving viaduct hive from a 5 man squad of JP/HMG.. as a tear rolls down his face.

RabidWeasel · October 2003

The lerk needs something to dent HA with - I've heard suggestions of spike doing double damage to HA (not too good an idea IMO) or making spore do 1/2 dmg to HA (not a bad idea).

IMO the perfect change to lerks would be to make the hive 1 abilities bite and spore, replacing spike with bite (provided spore does damage to HA). I've never been a fan of spikes and enjoyed fighting good lerks in 1.04, (I didn't generally lerk as I wasn't good enough) and I think that lerks are too defenceless if pressured. Such a change would also cement the gorge as the only ranged base attacker and stop those extremely annoying vent lerks who spend hours spiking phase gates from afar.

antifreeze · October 2003

i prefer the 2.0 lerk you nubble (lets flameorz). No seriously i think the 2.0 lerk is best, appart from people who spend the whole match sporing and not working as a team, but i suppose thats pubs for ya.

G-ZeuZ · October 2003

I think the lerk is really well balanced now. it is a support unit for the kharaa and for that it dont need a strong offence (bite)

the spike is a weak offensive attack, but stacked with spores you can kill a marine amasingly fast
the spore is good against light marines, and give the skulks the advantage to only bite twice if the marines have level 1+ armor.
the umbra is extreamly helpfull in all areas, gives good cover for skulks/fades/onos that are engaging heavy armors.
the primal scream... 2x attack is always nice in close combat for skulks/fades/onos.

its health and armor makes it somewhat weak, and its also somewhat hard to controle the lerk in flight, and on the ground its somewhat slow. defently a support class, it should not be made an offensive unit.

CheesyPeteza · October 2003

I think the lerk is balanced now too and all the weapons have their uses. My issue is I just don't find it fun anymore.

DarkFrost · October 2003

You hit that right on the head cheezy, its not any fun, what difference if the lerk supports the attack from away in the backgrond, or right in the action, tearing chunck out of the marines, Fun factor, its no fun being lerk who sits a mile away.

Bringing lerks bite back would really make my day, but, i believe it shouldnt be the same bite, it should be the older 50 damage bite, so not to get tagged "the flying skulk" again, because.. well.. its not, nor is fade a "super skulk"!

FlyFlown · October 2003

I find the NS 2.0 really fun to play eventhough it became a little bit spamy or lame as Darkfrost wrote. Bite ase a skill but being a good lerk in 2.0 is also a skill.

Mr_Charisma · October 2003

From what I have hathered from playing as lerk in 2.0 compared to 1.0x. Is that the lerk is NOT designed to take on bands of marines and fly away chuckling with a few kills. It's ment to be hit, run hit again. Or support other attacking aliens, there was a reason they gave it primal scream, and umbra (with range). Think about it.

Edit: "Unbra" LOL

aegix · October 2003

Lerks are the ultimate in support/annoyance tactics, and its a role that suits them very well. Ever been a HA and had a lerk constantly hit and run spiking you? Its extremely annoying to say the least.

Zek · October 2003

I never play Lerk and neither do 90% of the players I know. I've tried it plenty of times and simply have never found it to be as fun in 2.0. Bite made Lerks much more interesting if you ask me. I'm not going to deny that they're relatively balanced now, but I just don't think they're much fun to play, and evidently a lot of players agree because you very rarely see them used in pubs(and even more rarely do you see people who play them with any regularity).

For those of you who are defending the purpose of the Lerk, I'm just curious to know whether or not you actually play them on a regular basis, and if not, why? It's easy to say that they're useful but very few are willing to actually play them.

2of12B0RG · October 2003

I used to own with lerk in 1.x and would play as one exclusively the entire match. Now the lerk is a p*ssy.

MadcapMagician · October 2003

I think the 2.0 lerk is great. Now it just fills a different role so people don't think it's fun because they can't get in your face intense action. Thats because they don't have the patience or strategy for playing lerk. A lerk properly used can rack up dozens of kills and tip the scale in alien favor. A lerk can completely control a wide open space or a long corridor. When you're up against light armor marines there is no other creature that causes as much havoc. Sure they lose their usefullness against HA but thats ok. And at 30 res they are a great deal.
I think lerks are way to underused. One or 2 can have a huge impact on the game, especially early. You just have to change your way of playing. They aren't close combat fighters, they are standoff fighters and room clearers.

Mr_Charisma · October 2003

I am defending the lerk, and yes i rarely use it. Personally i prefer a fade, or other high class units. But i would never hesitate to accompany a lerk for it's support. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> = Win

Aphon · October 2003

Flayra is adding lerk bite in for my birthday

Forlorn · October 2003

The lerk in 2.0 owns believe it or not, but it's extreamlly difficult to get the amount of paitience you need to use it properly.

Also, the lerk dies way too easily for 30 res in my oppinion.

I know a few individuals who love the lerk and pratically never miss a spike, they really enjoy playing as lerk.

However, I do have to say, I never had fun with the new lerk, nor the old lerk. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

<i>You can please every person some of the time, or you can please some of the people all the time.</i>

Norml_E_High · October 2003

Well I too miss the bite, but, IMO there isn't really much you can do... Lets say bite becomes one of the 1 hive abilities. So say, bite and spore. Then 2nd hive would be spike or umbra. Lets say spike was 2 hive ability. So now you have spike, bite, and spore for having 2 hives. IMO that wouldn't work because umbra is very important to a teamwork orientated alien team. So you would end up with bite, and spore for first hive, umbra for second, and a useless spike for the third hive of which you would probably never get anyway, because most games never make it to the third hive, and even then for long. You could put the lerk back to the way it was and have no spore until 3rd hive, but then it would practically be the same, something you wouldn't have very long, and no longer works against HA, which would most likely be around by third hive time...

I miss bite, but I like the lerk the way it is now. It is more useful as a whole IMO, 1st hive to 3rd hive. Primal scream is useful, but its in no way something that would be lame not to have at 1st or second hive (spore or umbra).

MagiTek · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I now fade, as fade now takes the skill the lerks of old took, I dont understand why lerk was nubbed so badly</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Bingo, this is by design. Look, part of what makes NS so interesting is that the two teams are so dissimilar -- marines are squad-based jacks-of-all-trades, aliens are class-based with specific roles. The role of the Lerk was always meant to be support, the Fade was always meant to be a skirmisher. In 1.04, the Lerk excelled at both skirmish AND support while the Fade was an all-around tank. This has been fixed in 2.0, giving each of these classes a more specific role. Since the 2.0 Fade is one of the most potent units in the game, the aliens have clearly benefited from it.

You enjoy being a skirmisher. That is why you liked playing 1.04 Lerk, and playing 2.0 Fade. You haven't lost anything.

ThE_HeRo · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Norml E. High @ Oct 11 2003, 12:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Primal scream is useful, but its in no way something that would be lame not to have at 1st or second hive (spore or umbra).  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Primal Scream is so god awful, that no one uses it. When I play marine, when I hear it, which is once in a blue moon, I still think there's an onos around the corner. When I'm alien, and a lerk uses primal scream, I receive the effects 15 seconds after the scream itself. And it lasts for two seconds. This is my only beef with the lerk. They need something WAY better than primal scream. Just do away with the abilty. And something else in. Give it bite back, but make it level 3. At least the lerks wouldn't be so useless later in the game.

Jim_has_Skillz · October 2003

Yes, my favorite class for aliens used to be lerk, now it is my least favorite class. Bite added soo much more to the lerk than any of its other skills, it made the lerk really fun to use and deploy in battle. Now that it has been given another role, which is support, it is rarely used anymore because it just doesn't do enough damage, and it dies to easily.

Now would be a great time to readd lerk bite. The reason why it would not be overpowered, like it once was, is that its armor has greatly been reduced. Carapace is no longer as effective as it once was and mixing it with the new umbra which goes away a lot faster and barely stops bullets, lerks will now be mince meat against marines up close UNLESS they have support.

Another reason it should be readded is for the fact that primal scream is utterly useless. I have almost never seen Primal Scream be used in battle, and even if it was used, there would be no need for it because the Onoses were tearing apart the infantry portals.

All these elements really allow for the lerk bite to make a comeback. You still get to keep your spikes, umbra, and spores, primal scream just goes. I haven't seen anyone advocating the use of Primal Scream in here, so why not put the lerk bite back?

Fade_Dunaway · October 2003

I was a big lerk fan back in 1.x, and I still am in 2.0. Admittedly, Lerk without bite is LESS fun than before, but it's still fun. I like spiking and flying, it's sorta tough to do. I enjoy umbraing fade/onos in tough situations, but I enjoyed that a lot in 1.x also and that's been made more effective.

Lerktards are an issue, but isn't every class/tard an issue? I think that's more a "stupid people" problem than a lerk one <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Norml_E_High · October 2003

Yeah, Lerk is one of my favorite classes in 2.0. I could see bite as a 3rd hive ability, just for the heck of it. But, primal scream is more fitting for the support role the lerk has. It already has two attack modes, spike and spore, and two support modes, umbra and P. scream. However, primal scream is less useful IMO, because it by the time you get it, it only helps to tear apart the marine base faster. There are some games where you get a 3rd hive, lose a 3rd hive, regain a 3rd hive, so on and so forth. But in my knowledge those games are few and far between. I mostly notice that when 3rd hive goes up, marines = imminent death. I've always loved being support classes in games, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. I love helping my teamates with umbra, because it DOES make a big difference. That skulk that normally would have been torn apart, ripped through 3 marines because he was in an umbra cloud. Fades are harder to umbra for though, what with blink and all. But you have to just start trying to think ahead of the fades moves. Shoot the marines with umbra you think he is going to go after, or the IP, or armory, etc etc. I dunno, maybe I just like the lerk more because it requires less skill than the fade, lol, which I'm terrible at. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a fade, in fact almost died to a marine with a welder the other day.

I would go fade more for practice, but by the time I have 50 res its hive time. As for lerks getting bite back, I just don't know if it fits the lerks new and improved support role in the days of new NS.

SuB · October 2003

I don't lerk much, but they royally **** me off as a marine. Even if they don't get many kills with spores, good sporage can make a situation that much more un-contendable for marines.

When a commander I always tell my team, 'Ignore the lerk as much as you can guys... try and stay out of the spore clouds cause it will waste away our res on medpacks', and IMO, that's what the lerk is most effective for. While they don't get many direct kills, they can stay away from the action and make life so much harder for marines.

Lerks can make ALL the difference in the clan matches we play, and the skill required to be an top level lerk is still immense. A well controled lerk properly upgraded can inflict a serious amount of damage, that's not always reflected in kills.

Primal scream on 3rd hive effects every unit and when it happens every alien thinks, 'good lerky, you rock!', as they all go ape **** with their respective abilities.

Anyways, bottom line, I think the lerk is still uber, it's presence and effect on the game is just not as... obvious.

RaVe · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SuB] @ Oct 11 2003, 03:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Anyways, bottom line, I think the lerk is still uber, it's presence and effect on the game is just not as... obvious.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Seconded.

Birdy · October 2003

I miss everything about the lerk <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Speed,armor,bite and umbra.

It was such a kick to dive down, cast umbra and kill the marine before his teammates could even know where i was <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Same as Dark, i gave up on the lerk and started fading alot.

Lerk is like dod 1.0 now. Made for noobs who can't play right.

MattHaX · October 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

I used to think a marine dying from a Lerk bite was embarrasing as dying by a parasite. It's such a skilled tactic, fly to marine->bite kill->fly away. Everytime I saw a Lerk bite kill I used to laugh with everyone else. Only person I saw that mastered this, was some geezar on the ^NuT^ clan server.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

1. Bite [1]
2. Spike [1]
3. Umbra [2] w/ Increased power or increased duration
4. Spore [3] w/ 1/5th damage to HA

This makes Lerk useful at the beginning, and the end of the game

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

Stormeh · October 2003

I agree with MattHax amongst others, bring back the lerks to the way it was back in 1.xx. It was so much funnier to play as, and we wouldnt have to put up with the current sporespam.

DarkFrost · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MadcapMagician @ Oct 11 2003, 05:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Thats because they don't have the patience or strategy for playing lerk. A lerk properly used can rack up dozens of kills and tip the scale in alien favor. A lerk can completely control a wide open space or a long corridor.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Oh no u have me wrong, 2.0 Lerk is increadably easy, you forget, we had spikes in 1.0, anyone who has seen me go lerk recently will know that i take on groups of marines, with only spike, and have come out standing triumphant many times, and this is playing within biting range of them, with no spores.

Being able to use the 2.0 lerk, and having fun using it, are two different things entirely.

Beast · October 2003

"Bringing lerks bite back would really make my day, but, i believe it shouldnt be the same bite, it should be the older 50 damage bite, so not to get tagged "the flying skulk" again, because.. well.. its not, nor is fade a <u>"super skulk"!</u> "
That's plain obvious isn't it ^^

Current lerk is fine IMO <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> I personally find it more fun, on the odd occasion I do go lerk. It's just a case of playing with the marines. Oh, and spikes seem to do a LOT more damage that 1.04 (to marines at least). Which is kinda cool <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Fro5ty · October 2003

I do miss the Lerk bite, it allowed a lerk to better help in taking down a resource node then sitting in a vent half the map away, and spike spike spike spike till the onos comes... But I have always prefered the support role over the direct combat.

As with the third hive, not all games end when that third hive goes up. Marines can last a long time if they are able to take out RTS because most of the aliens are focused on attacking the marine base and not their RTs, thinking that victory is imminent. Having a lerk go to the onos squads, primal squak and then umbra an area and shoot a cloud of spores will make the Onos job a lot easier. They will rush in faster to the umbra cloud and smack anything in there, while the spores knock down the light guys to where the onos just horns em once and that's it. Like said before, it's all about teamwork, the point of the lerk has always been support role. I do miss the bite, but I have more fun now as that I don't have to get in as close to the rines and make myself a target. The closer a <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'> is to an <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> = a dead lerk. I am glad for a lot of the 2.0 changes, Fades don't mean the end of the game, Onos actually appear now, lerks are easier to stay out of the fray with, gorges are seen enmasse now and are useful, and I can actually get kills with a skulk.

IN all, 2.0 is a mixed bag, early onos pretty much means an end game, and it's possible to get one very quick if one person is the designated res hoarder, and everyone else drops RTs and that guy manages to kill about ten marines within the first two minutes. But marines are actually now able to counter them, even with LMGs. The only thing I'd wish to have changed with the aliens is a kill button for being devoured. The onos still gets res, health and you're out of circulation for the duration, but you don't have to stare at that damned red stomach and could possibley spectate the game while in waiting.

NSCypher · October 2003

Personally I find flying at high speed and spiking to be more fun than biting - it's actually a fight with a marie rather tha an instant kill before he sees you. This is also the reason I used to use the Scout or Autosnipers in CS instead of the AWP - I get no satisfaction out of one-shot-killing someone who has no chace to fight back, I would rather fight them and have fun (even if they do kill me...). Anyway, I wouldn't mind if bite came back (eg. instead of primal)- I probably just wouldn't use it anywhere near as much as spike <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> .

PS - I take no responsibility for any 'n's missing in the above post - the button is messed up on this rubbish school keyboard (too much Coke spilled on it...)

Lerk Bite

Comments