<!--QuoteBegin--CheesyPeteza+Oct 10 2003, 08:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Oct 10 2003, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now it is just a method to get from one place to another and is rarely used in combat. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wish I was here to see the fantastic aerial battles people must have had in Lerk Bite vs. LMG + JP
I've only been into NS since 2.0, so I don't have anything to compare.
However, I am one of those absolutely wierd peaple who has fun playing support. I usually spend most of the game playing Gorge. However, when the endgame starts and it's time to close the noose around the necks of our marine foes, I go lerk.
Shoot, just last night I helped break the marine hold on Sat Comm by exploiting their badly placed IP's with spores. 2 games after, I was in the vent with a Fade in Bast, keeping the Fade Umbra'd and Primaled while he spammed the marine base with Acid Rockets. Later that night I was flying over a team of 3 Ohnos , screaming my head off and watching in satisfaction while they tore the marine structures apart at double speed.
I'm having fun with it... guess I just have the right mentality for the 2.0 Lerk.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I bet you all had great memories of playing with the lerk bite (yes, it was fun), but it has a great role as a support class right now. I like it the way it is -- I'll take gameplay over individual skill show-off.
<!--QuoteBegin--CheesyPeteza+Oct 11 2003, 01:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Oct 11 2003, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What type of muppet would try to bite a jet packer as lerk? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's what I loved to do, mid-air snacks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I loved the lerk bite.. I remember one round of Nancy where they were seiging Subspace from Mother Interface. None of the others could get in there because they kept getting shot. So I jumped behind the TF and used umbra, then continued to bite away at the TF. I'd like to see a 2.0 lerk do that. Yes, 2.0 does try to expand on the teamwork side of aliens, but really.. 1.0x "loner" system also worked quite well in my mind..
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I used to own with lerk in 1.x and would play as one exclusively the entire match. Now the lerk is a p*ssy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I believe that was the entire point. The Lerk is a <i>support</i> alien. It's not meant to be able to take on a group of marines. It's not really meant to be able to take on head on 1!
I absolutely anniliated marines in 1.x as Lerk, Ziggy or some of the Warservers guys of the time know that, as do some of the ex Gridlock players. But I'm glad it's the way it is now. I miss bite, for what I could do with it, but that doesn't mean it was a balanced thing to have in.
If bite was put back in, I'd like to see it at damage so it was 3/3/4/5 bites for a standard/1/2/3 armour marine. That means it'll be good for finishing off wounded stragglers (A role it is perfect for) but unlikely to take on a full health marine, especially late game, when it should be supporting larger species & supporting, rather than a harasser.
The problem would then be, what to drop? It's weapon slots are full, and the only one that could possibly be shifted in some way is Primal Scream (some form of passive ability gained at 3 hives perhaps?)
I'd like bite back, but I can't see a way to wedge it in.
I havent read all the posts so excues me if what i propose was already mentioned here. I would simply suggest to make spores damage the armour value of the HA. The players health should not be damaged until the HA armour rating reaches zero. This would keep lerks in game till the end and greatly help to counter HA trains.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Oct 12 2003, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Oct 12 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I used to own with lerk in 1.x and would play as one exclusively the entire match. Now the lerk is a p*ssy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I believe that was the entire point. The Lerk is a <i>support</i> alien. It's not meant to be able to take on a group of marines. It's not really meant to be able to take on head on 1!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im sorry mate, but im fed up with this line, Skulk is a Scout class, its not meant to take on the entire marine team and come out on top, but it does, as i said, bite or not 2.0 lerk is so easy you can take on groups of LA/LMG marines easilly and win alone, Its just not as much Fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
i really like the spores at 1st level hive....smashing for stopping a marine rush, you need the spikes to whittle down evil shotties energy from a distance, and Umbra is a great support for your skulky teammates.
I LOVED bite.....nothing funnier than sitting on the walkway on viaduct seeing a marine running around below tne swooping down and popping the poor blokes skull cap off....
Would i give up spores for bit.....i dont think i would....i love the wiff of gass straight from the 1st hive:D
How about we get 3 yeas three power from the start, bite spike and gass... dump primal screem, and give us back the abilty to make marines soil their pants as we flap round their heads biting them <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> hovar with flapping?
<!--QuoteBegin--Mintman+Oct 11 2003, 10:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mintman @ Oct 11 2003, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 0. Spike 1. Umbra 2. Bite 3. Old strength spore <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1 hive Umbra won't happen. It will have to have such a nerf that would make the advantage negligible, compared to, say, carapace. However, if it can be stacked... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ive only read about 80%-90% of the posts here so i hope im not just repeateing what other people said but heres what I think....
Spores is thier best weapon (early-midgame). If it is removed lerks will suck. It is the aliens only effective means to slow or halt a marine rush (if used properly). It also really pisses of the Marines. You can pop a few down in Marine spawn, and then fly the hell back to safety while the 'rines humping the armory start barfing chunks. Spike is also a good EARLY weapon. It shoots exactly where the curser is and has virtually 0 flight time, making it like a sniper weapon to me. It also does more damage than it used to , I believe its 18dmg a shot now. Its also the only weapon lerks have that can be shot while flying without worrying about tiring (running out of adrenalin). Umbra feels useless to me, now that fades move so quick. It isnt as effective, and now , when I use it people dont take advantage of it. Primal Scream is VERY cool and effective, however , not necessary. IMHO, keep lerk the SAME , but make Umbra alittle cooler and make BITE a hive 1 weapon WITH spores. Yes , 2 abilities for 1 hive. Us Lerkies need bite to make leveling undefended RTS faster. The only way we have to damage buildings is spike ,and that uber sucks verse buildings. As far as ANTI HA issuses, I think gorg bilebomb should damage HA ARMOR , not health. Tha should be the anti HA.
BTW , I love playing 2.0 LERK more than any class in ANY HL MOD.
It seems that naturally the veterans of 1.0 lerk will like lerk with bite, but there are plenty of newcomers who love the new lerk.
I doubt the lerk is going to change, but if it were to be changed, I'd do this:
1. Bite 2. Spores 3. Umbra (Make it last 1 second longer) 4. Primal Scream (Make it last 3 seconds longer... period)
To be honest, spikes and spores kinda overlap with each other... if you see lots of marines or even one marine you will most likely spore them to death rather than spike him and risk losing your 30 res investment. Spores and spikes are also both long range damage, does anyone else see the resembelence? It's redundant, and a lerk bite makes a lot more sense to me.
With bite, you could defend yourself against lone marines, and spores would still make you the uber support unit at hive 1.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ahhh the memories. I remember seeing that spray on pubs for weeks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The new lerk is okay, but not all that much...fun...the bite returning would probably not make the Lerk into a super skulk like the fade, even with the bite both classes would take very different roles. Lerks are really not strong enough to be good shock troopers like the fade. If umbra is kept as a firing weapon with the same power as now, the whole casting umbra on your self and then biting wouldn't be quite as powerful. For example:
Hive 0 - Bite Hive 1 - Spikes Hive 2 - Umbra (as is now) and spores (a bit more powerful than they were, perhaps does a little bit of damage to heavies) Hive 3 - Primal Scream This gives the lerk a way to attack res nodes in the early game but keeps it from sporing marines until a little later. It doesn't really diminish the role as a support class too much, as umbra and biting jpers would be absolutely essential, but at the same time it gives the lerk a bit more ramboing capability.
Granted, my theories aren't totally solid, but I sure do miss lerk bite, and definately wish to see it in the future.
I voted against removing the bite, it was good because it did way more damage than crappy spore or spike and it was a great assassin move, cloak and wait in an area with celerity then once the Marine train goes past swoop in from behind and bite the entire team before they knew what was happening. It was good for jet packers tooo, you could keep up with them and take them out with bite soooo easily. And Umbra being fixed around the lerk had the advantage of a large range but the Lerk had to get its hands dirty, it felt like u were getting <i>involved</i> in the assault instead of being a distant bystander. I still vote "no" for changing bite and regualrly play 1.0-.04 with mates over LAN's because of this and the welder <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> and the older blink
Comments
Wish I was here to see the fantastic aerial battles people must have had in Lerk Bite vs. LMG + JP
However, I am one of those absolutely wierd peaple who has fun playing support. I usually spend most of the game playing Gorge. However, when the endgame starts and it's time to close the noose around the necks of our marine foes, I go lerk.
Shoot, just last night I helped break the marine hold on Sat Comm by exploiting their badly placed IP's with spores. 2 games after, I was in the vent with a Fade in Bast, keeping the Fade Umbra'd and Primaled while he spammed the marine base with Acid Rockets. Later that night I was flying over a team of 3 Ohnos , screaming my head off and watching in satisfaction while they tore the marine structures apart at double speed.
I'm having fun with it... guess I just have the right mentality for the 2.0 Lerk.
I bet you all had great memories of playing with the lerk bite (yes, it was fun), but it has a great role as a support class right now. I like it the way it is -- I'll take gameplay over individual skill show-off.
you need spores to kill vent camping marines
...you need bite to... play 1.0? ;p
That's what I loved to do, mid-air snacks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll say, 1.04 lerk was more fun then 2.0.
Yes, 2.0 does try to expand on the teamwork side of aliens, but really.. 1.0x "loner" system also worked quite well in my mind..
And I believe that was the entire point. The Lerk is a <i>support</i> alien. It's not meant to be able to take on a group of marines. It's not really meant to be able to take on head on 1!
I absolutely anniliated marines in 1.x as Lerk, Ziggy or some of the Warservers guys of the time know that, as do some of the ex Gridlock players. But I'm glad it's the way it is now. I miss bite, for what I could do with it, but that doesn't mean it was a balanced thing to have in.
If bite was put back in, I'd like to see it at damage so it was 3/3/4/5 bites for a standard/1/2/3 armour marine. That means it'll be good for finishing off wounded stragglers (A role it is perfect for) but unlikely to take on a full health marine, especially late game, when it should be supporting larger species & supporting, rather than a harasser.
The problem would then be, what to drop? It's weapon slots are full, and the only one that could possibly be shifted in some way is Primal Scream (some form of passive ability gained at 3 hives perhaps?)
I'd like bite back, but I can't see a way to wedge it in.
- Shockeh
I would simply suggest to make spores damage the armour value of the HA.
The players health should not be damaged until the HA armour rating reaches zero.
This would keep lerks in game till the end and greatly help to counter HA trains.
And I believe that was the entire point. The Lerk is a <i>support</i> alien. It's not meant to be able to take on a group of marines. It's not really meant to be able to take on head on 1!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sorry mate, but im fed up with this line, Skulk is a Scout class, its not meant to take on the entire marine team and come out on top, but it does, as i said, bite or not 2.0 lerk is so easy you can take on groups of LA/LMG marines easilly and win alone, Its just not as much Fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
i really like the spores at 1st level hive....smashing for stopping a marine rush, you need the spikes to whittle down evil shotties energy from a distance, and Umbra is a great support for your skulky teammates.
I LOVED bite.....nothing funnier than sitting on the walkway on viaduct seeing a marine running around below tne swooping down and popping the poor blokes skull cap off....
Would i give up spores for bit.....i dont think i would....i love the wiff of gass straight from the 1st hive:D
How about we get 3 yeas three power from the start, bite spike and gass... dump primal screem, and give us back the abilty to make marines soil their pants as we flap round their heads biting them <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> hovar with flapping?
agreed
1. Umbra
2. Bite
3. Old strength spore <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 hive Umbra won't happen. It will have to have such a nerf that would make the advantage negligible, compared to, say, carapace. However, if it can be stacked... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
agreed
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any thought of maybe moving primal to skulk (instead of xeno)?
I'm sure everyone is going to say xeno is needed.
I gotta agree that the 2.0 lerk is useful and powerful, but doesn't have any skill and isn't that much fun.
Pls let control make you go down as a lerk. And up the cap. So that flying can be like it used to (only better).
Spores is thier best weapon (early-midgame). If it is removed lerks will suck. It is the aliens only effective means to slow or halt a marine rush (if used properly). It also really pisses of the Marines. You can pop a few down in Marine spawn, and then fly the hell back to safety while the 'rines humping the armory start barfing chunks. Spike is also a good EARLY weapon. It shoots exactly where the curser is and has virtually 0 flight time, making it like a sniper weapon to me. It also does more damage than it used to , I believe its 18dmg a shot now. Its also the only weapon lerks have that can be shot while flying without worrying about tiring (running out of adrenalin). Umbra feels useless to me, now that fades move so quick. It isnt as effective, and now , when I use it people dont take advantage of it. Primal Scream is VERY cool and effective, however , not necessary. IMHO, keep lerk the SAME , but make Umbra alittle cooler and make BITE a hive 1 weapon WITH spores. Yes , 2 abilities for 1 hive. Us Lerkies need bite to make leveling undefended RTS faster. The only way we have to damage buildings is spike ,and that uber sucks verse buildings. As far as ANTI HA issuses, I think gorg bilebomb should damage HA ARMOR , not health. Tha should be the anti HA.
BTW , I love playing 2.0 LERK more than any class in ANY HL MOD.
I doubt the lerk is going to change, but if it were to be changed, I'd do this:
1. Bite
2. Spores
3. Umbra (Make it last 1 second longer)
4. Primal Scream (Make it last 3 seconds longer... period)
To be honest, spikes and spores kinda overlap with each other... if you see lots of marines or even one marine you will most likely spore them to death rather than spike him and risk losing your 30 res investment. Spores and spikes are also both long range damage, does anyone else see the resembelence? It's redundant, and a lerk bite makes a lot more sense to me.
With bite, you could defend yourself against lone marines, and spores would still make you the uber support unit at hive 1.
<a href='http://www.savethebite.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.savethebite.com/</a>
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ahhh the memories. I remember seeing that spray on pubs for weeks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Wyzcrak
Hive 0 - Bite
Hive 1 - Spikes
Hive 2 - Umbra (as is now) and spores (a bit more powerful than they were, perhaps does a little bit of damage to heavies)
Hive 3 - Primal Scream
This gives the lerk a way to attack res nodes in the early game but keeps it from sporing marines until a little later. It doesn't really diminish the role as a support class too much, as umbra and biting jpers would be absolutely essential, but at the same time it gives the lerk a bit more ramboing capability.
Granted, my theories aren't totally solid, but I sure do miss lerk bite, and definately wish to see it in the future.