<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Apr 16 2003, 04:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Apr 16 2003, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--XCan+Apr 16 2003, 03:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Apr 16 2003, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why not simply make the hives start with 2 ocs? And the marine base start with some mines or turrets?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "Spawn Camping" - not lame, aliens should work together to prevent it. As for the mines or turrets or OCs, thats completely lame. Anyhow, I'd suggest you guys quit whining. "Camping" comes in many different forms and this "Spawn Camping" that you all whine about is a legitimate tactic.
This is war, its your life or theirs. No more cowardly complaining about "unfair" tactics, plz. Just about every person on this board probably ignorantly supports the war in Iraq, but you complain about "unfair" tactics in NS? Thats so ridiculous. Just like the US, those marines were playing to win. Nobody is playing "fair."
Btw, aliens do have a way to spawn more than one at a time: Multiple hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I for one don't support bush and I never have, besides it's not a war, its a superpower trampling around on a VERY small country. but this is a bit off topic the point is, hive lockdowns should be at least fair enough as to let at least ONE skulk get away unseen.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin--Hypergrip+Apr 16 2003, 08:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hypergrip @ Apr 16 2003, 08:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I do not consider it spawncamping... If it was a game like CTF, where your objective is to capture something, it would be lame... but in NS the goal is to KILL every enemy and to PREVENT them from respawning by taking out the hives or IPs. Killing an Marine or Alien that just spawned is another form of preventing them from spawning... let's just put it as "preventing the enemy from ACTING" instead of spawning. My oppinion, both as public and Clan player: YAY! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That pretty much sums it up.
Besides which, unless the spawn is full of marines, 1v1 a skulk should generally be able to spawn and kill a marine with ease, given he's next to an uber healing structure. Try holding down a move key and hitting space when you spawn, not after. I rarely get spawnkilled.
imo spawn camping is fine, its just that aliens need togain control of themselves quicker after spawning
but in this game there is no such thing as camping because unlike other fragfests we have real objectives <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The marine hive rush and lock down is pretty much the standard clan tactic now. The team that stays defensive for too long will most likley lose...
Here my personal flow chart that I have seen from the 20 or so demos I have watched of clans like sYn and eve play, and my own personal experience of getting my clan owned in a pre-season match by eve.
Game Beings :30-:2:00min OPTION 1 Inital skulks rush >result: Marines are "decent" shots and murder alien team, because of long respawn time and cost of rp's you just ended your alien teams chances of winning. >Game over for aliens OPTION 2 Skulks take defensive positions and parasite and ambush as best they can to hold marines up while gorge secures rp nodes and gets intial defense setup. >result: Marines either push through to hive(see 2b) and start spawn-camping to win. Or, they are held up while a gorge takes nodes(2a) and the game becomes a a normal teching match of capturing nodes, lossing nodes and such. First Half phase 2:00-10:00 2a) If the alien team can hold up the marines long enough and keep their rp's down low enough they can eventually win, and most likely will. At about the 10:00 mark into the game, you will almost always notice a turn around in play. The kharaa will have carapace by now and probally some decent resourse flow, and are saving up for a second hive. The marines are most likely on the defense and continuing to try and make pushes against the aliens. The aliens will go offensive for the most part and a truely tough battle will begin. ----->Go to 3a, 3b 2b)Marines make it to the hive and begin to kill it and any spawing aliens....this is where it gets hard. You have to switch your priority as a skulk to staying alive using harass tactics and have to have a gorge constantly healing a hive, and at least one skulk must go out and make sure the marines dont get rps. If you can get the marine force fought off for even a second head to their base and attempt to put them back on the defensive. keep you hive alive and capture any nodes you can as a gorge. Of course, if you can't fight them off the marines win. Second half phase 11:00-20:00 3a)The marines will begin a new rush and keep trying on their hive attacks and the kharaa will keep defending and attacking whenever they get the chance. Defense and offense will switch back and force constantly. The marines will start to get some defensive structures and will most likely attempt to secure 1 or 2 hives. If they secure two, the game is still on, and far from over until the marines max out their tech(about 17:00min), and if they secure one the game will be fought by both sides at pretty much max tech and probally go into what I consider extended play(20:00min-45:00min). Final Phase 20:00-45:00 At about 20:00min the kharaa should have the second hive up and begin to make strong pushes everywhere. If they marines have teched up they stand a chance of winning if AND ONLY IF they contine to make successful ground pushes and attacks.
Kharaa will win by basic resourse attrition in every game. This is extremely important to remember if you are in a clan match. Keep it under 20:00min and you will most likly win as marines, if it goes over, you will most likely fail as marines and the kharaa will win. These are the basic goals. Keep the other team defensive and slow. Change strategies often. And Always continue teching up. Marines keep it short, kharaa keep them slow until you can reach full potential.
<b>A note on resourse attrition</b> Touranment mode cost >of a battle feild marine :1 rp >kharaa :1rp Kharaa with best possible equiptment : 6rp Marine with best possible equiptment :either 25HMG+9JP, or 25HA+25HMG
healing cost...2rp/heal for marins, 14 for a permanant heal for aliens or free from gorge.
As you can see, the kharaa will win a long game, as the marines will begin to starve if the marine team does not control the map. Take note that the aliens, because of mobility, have a "slightly" easier (IMO and based on what I have seen) time controling the map and taking out a marine outpost. Its important as a marine team commander, that if you dont win withthe hive rush to immediately begin securing nodes and defending them.(this includes hives).
Ok guys, this is totally based on what I have seen, and I want to thank all the clans that we have fought and spectated that have taught me so much.
Spawn camping is perfectly acceptable tact. If you want to win, your going to camp and destroy everything the enemy has in order to do so. Your not going to meet in some long battlefield and fire shots at each other from 500 yards away.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
We tried invulnerability in playtest... it doesn't work, unfortunately. ): Whether a skulk is invincible for a set time, or until he attacks, or a combination of both, what it does is allow him to close to melee range with a marine while completely immune to any bullets fired at him. You change the problem from skulks being killed on spawn to marines being killed by spawning skulks - 100%, every time.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twisted Master+Apr 16 2003, 03:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twisted Master @ Apr 16 2003, 03:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Faster respawning or double respawning (like marines have) is needed currently, but I'm not sure how it'll work out it 1.1.
As for right now? A good tactic if the rest of the marines move in afterword and mop up (aka, killing the hive). If they were there just to rack up "their" kill count, it's lame.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it's totally acceptible, the aliens deserve their ruthless punishment for not working as a team.
spawn camping annoys the **** out of me...but sadly there isn't anything I can think of to defeat it. It's an excellent question and i suppose depends a lot on who is playing. Best case would be if that happens a lot as described...swhitch servers or hope an admin pops in soon.
Enemy its hard to work as a team dude if THE WHOLE TEAM IS DEAD AND ONLY ONE SPAWNS IN AT A TIME. It is relatively easy to sneak out of base hide in an area and wait for a few skulks to run by move up some hide wait again move up some hide wait again then when you are in the hive pick a point where you can see all the spawn points and wait. When a skulk spawns in theres no carapace, no ranged attack worth trying and you dont even gain control until you hit the ground. it only takes 9 bullets to kill a skulk without carapace.
Therefore since only one spawns at a time *bang bang bang* *dead skulk* *bang bang bang* *dead skulk* so where exactly does the teamwork come into play. And if the marines get 2 or 3 in there then the aliens may as well F4.
Somethings do not always work in the real world, as a ServerOP you should be conscience that there ARE infact spawn campers. If you want to stop it; you come up with a way to deturr it or a way to punish them for such behavior.
actually i've mixed reactions to spawn camping. for 1 thing, ns maps hasnt implement a system to deal with spawn campers aka some dod maps. secondly, i cant think of a reason to back this up with how the game works.
i say "nay" for personal gains, ego, "frag score" or whatever reason that doesnt benefit the team much.
but, i say yes when a squad of marines are taking down skulks spawning in while 1 or 2 stays back and prepare a siege/phase. If u guys dled the RED vs EVE match demo, u see that almost the entire team waiting for the skulks to come in and not killing the hive. intimidation won the game. cheap tactic? u decide.
Both Yay and Nay. If used as an actual tactic and/or waiting for someone else to show up to help in killing the hive, Yay. If they're just lamers, Nay. That situation just aint fun since they're not killing the hive to end the game so you're just stuck in the respawn queue. You can't F4 either since the marines would just start calling you lame and stuff.
I have to say Aye (Yay?), because there are situations where you as member of your team, has to choose to either spawn camp some, or intentionally not help your team. The only time you can be in this position is if you are by yourself in a hive/marine base. There is little hope for a lone marine to hold spawning skulks at bay and kill the hive when the marine is being health/ammo spammed, and there is no chance of success without the ammo. when you are a lone skulk attacking multiple IP's, are you just going to sit there as marines spawn from them? This is a moral delima, because no one wants to be spawn killed, but you may not have a choice. I have been in many spawn killing situations before, and I was the killer much more often then the spawner. Unless it was just 2 IP's I would always ask for backup from my team to finish off the enemy; if they wouldn't come (as was the case too many times) I would disengage, sometimes suicidally, because I have no intention to camp, just to win.
<!--QuoteBegin--CutterJoe+Apr 17 2003, 04:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CutterJoe @ Apr 17 2003, 04:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> HA HA HA moo man doesnt play for fun. I guess he thinks he has a job playing ns and he needs to get real great at sneaking into a hive and spawn camping for ages until the aliens F4. It requires talent to sit in one spot and kill something with no ranged attack other than a parasite that does 4 damage, from a position that even a noob could kill all spawning aliens from. If you have to practice at spawn camping dude I feel for you and your clan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmmmm, odd attepmt to insult me.
Read what I said and it shows that when I spawn camp for a few minutes, it gives my team a greater chance to win. What I find fun in NS is playing my hardest to win, and so if that means spawn camping for 5 minutes, then i will do it. I dont find it "fun" by not trying my hardest to kill the enemy, that is pointless to me. If I can finish a game at any stage I will, mainly cos the MOST fun I have is playing against people who are trying their hardest against me and I am trying my hardest vs them. Thats why I dislike publics a lot, and mainly play as many organized games as I can.
Also the fact that if I can get into a hive in a CW and spawn camp sucessfully, guess what, WE WIN, so it IS good practice, as that is 1/2 of my job as a marine in CWs. The actual killing of the aliens isnt hard, the hard part that I practice is getting there, and killing every live alien that trys to kill me, once that is done, all I have to do is shoot at spawning skulks and we have virtually won.
"You feel for my clan" - lovely, you dont even know anything about startagy, so dont even try to talk about it.
Besides if you let me get into your hive and sucessfully kill all of the team, you deserve to loose.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Apr 17 2003, 05:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Apr 17 2003, 05:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's a little bit like TFC. I maintain that respawn camping in TFC, while a cheap tactic, is not really a seriously lame (ie, we should ban people from doing it) tactic.
But that's beside the point.
Speaking as primarily a kharaa player, I don't think it's that lame to have marines spawn camping. If you start moving as soon as you spawn, and stay close to the hive you can survive. They boosted the hive healing to deal with this. As for kharaa spawn camping the marines, if they've bottled up the entire team and are not killing the portals, it's incredibly lame. Marines have *NO* chance if a kharaa is camping the portals; the kharaa have some chance if marines are camping.
I'll say the same thing I said about TFC: by all means, use lame tactics. Spawn camp, build sentries just outside my base, chase, turtle, DM. Be warned that if you do, I will make a point of fragging the stupid out of you every chance I get. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait a second, I think you've got this backwards. You think that marines, with ranged weapons, spawncamping an open hive area where alien players drop to the ground 10 seconds apart, unable to move for a second, have a hard job taking out the skulks? When you're in the marine base, and a new marine spawns through an IP, you need to be close enough to attack. When I know there are skulks waiting, I make sure to jump in some direction as soon as I respawn, and start spraying bullets. It doesn't always work, but it can be enough to confuse them and hopefully take them down. Contrast that with appearing in a wide open space (like Waste hive, which is basically an open field) with a marine trainign his lmg or pistol on you. You then have 2 options - try and close the ground between yourself and the marine, to try and take him out (good luck with that) or run like hell and hopefully get somewhere safe. Fish in a barrel for a marine with a half-decent aim. Plus marines can always rely on the comm jumping out at some point to take care of business. So although it's possible for both teams to have a rough time, I still say the marines have an advantage in this situation. A small chance vs no chance. (And let's not forget that marines get remote healing - a skulk in the marine spawn is going to be worn down eventually.)
I don't mind spawncamping when it's a means to an immediate end. Part of a hive rush for example, or trying to hold off the aliens until backup arrives. But merely camping out with the intention of killing everything before it has a chance to move *is* lame, and as such relies on the spirit of the marine team. I don't care whether they're doing it for fun or to allow the rest of the team to tech up for one huge assault. People say that it's your own fault for letting the marines get in that position - but then, it's possible for a marine to sneak their way in at the start, especially on smaller games. And of course, the kharaa are rushing at this point, which means they are constantly dying and respawning. And if they're respawning to instant death, it's pretty obvious that they're screwed.
As far as fixing it goes... I'd like to see the option for skulks to delay their respawn. Like moving from DEAD>REIN>REDY or something, with a 'click to respawn' message. That way a pack of skulks could prepare a small synchronized defensive strike, instead of being picked off one by one - kinda like the Distress Beacon, only with the respawn delay still in place. And hey - skulks waiting for backup instead of respawning are skulks who aren't defending the hive, which gives the marines an advantage in an attack. Unless of course, the marines aren't attacking the hive and are just camping to pick off skulks which are just waking up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Mooman good buddy I wasnt trying to insult you or youre clan. I was just pointing out my opinion. If you took that as an insult I apologize and withdraw the comment. And yes I know nothing of tactics thats why when I am a marine I follow the comm and hope he knows about tactics. That is why I try not to spawn camp unless we are trying to accomplish the objective of destroying the hive and winning the game. Im not in a clan nor do I wish to be. I have way too much going on in my life right now for that and as I remember from past clans I do not have time for that right now. I play for fun and when I have the time. Again sorry if I insulted you it wasnt my attempt it was just a way to try and make my opinion.
i have two opinions: spawn-camping in the end is not bad, cause the games gonna end soon and what better end than taking a few 'rines with you does there exist? spawn-camping for kills or any other reason that does not involve HMG teammies killin the hive is lame. delaying the enemy is not a valid reason, and preventing the enemy from action is a stupid theory. i have nothing against clanners(except when they do the clan on one team trick), but from my exp. i have learned they quite often rush.but there are cool clans who are fun to play with. as soon as i remember one i will tell about some.
Although on the whole I do not like the spawn-camping tactic, I recognize it as a valid and effective tactic for both the marines and aliens - whether shooting the hive/biting the ip or not. Though I don't like it, I will still use the tactic every now and again.
In clan matches and with teams of equal skill, spawn camping is perfectly legit. The players know what they're doing, and it's acceptable to do whatever you can to win...
I think the main problem comes when these '"elite"' marines who are very, very good at this strategy go onto public servers where the skill level of most, if not all, of the players is drastically lower than what the marine is used to. When this happens, it becomes a vary un-fun situation for at the very least the alien team. How can you say 'It's your fault for letting me get into your hive, killing all of you along the way,' in good conscience when you are in effect beating up on a team of NSPlayers? You KNOW you're better than them, and you KNOW they have basically no chance of stopping you, because you're much, much better than they are. Do it once, sure. Fine, you've proved that you're better than their entire team. Good for you. But when it becomes game after game after game of nothing but the same perma-rush to the hive to spawn camp, against a team of players that cannot stand up to you, it becomes lame as hell.
So in some instances, spawn camping is just fine. But it would be nice if the players who *can* effectively spawn-camp against people of equal or lower skill would try to keep in mind the feelings of all the players on the server. Try to make the game as fun as possible for *everyone*, not just yourselves or the part of your team that needs that extra minute and a half to jp/hmg rush (bleh). Make games more *interesting* than the usual '2 marines spawn-camp while the rest of the team conquers the map and then jp/hmg rushes.' Save your "elite" spawn-camping skills for a clan match, or a game where everybody is equally skilled and equipped to deal with such a strategy.
in clan matches we always send a guy to contantly it their hive, their gorge or their res or there def chambers. thats all he does, hunts gorges kinfes res and picks off aliens in thier spawn.
Its a wonderful way to slow the enemy team.
but if you insist.
if aliens dont attack marines spawn
then we wont attack aliens spawn.
As marines we constantly attack one building in their spawn, usually the obs until they get a proto then its the proto. You will be suprised how slow marines go without jpacks and phase gates.
I hate losing my obs as much as i hate losing def chambers.
if you are first of your team there with another few coming in 20 seconds or wahtever then I say YAY!, but if your doing it purley to get more kills then NAY.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->spawning camping is not lame, its really useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is admittedly very useful - but when people of really high skill levels go onto essentially n00b servers to spawn camp and do *nothing* else, until jp/hmg comes out, then I do believe it *does* become lame. They should make the game fun, instead of flaunting their better twitch skills on a server of players that can't fight back.
this is not tfc or cs ... when killing the hive (your objective) and a skulk spawns, are you going to kill it?
It's pretty simple if you ask me. I'm not going to go in-depth on why people should do it, or why they shouldn't because ultimately people that label this tactic 'spawn camping', are just scrubs.
people need to stop making excuses for their losses.
<!--QuoteBegin--Toshax+Apr 18 2003, 03:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Toshax @ Apr 18 2003, 03:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> this is not tfc or cs ... when killing the hive (your objective) and a skulk spawns, are you going to kill it?
It's pretty simple if you ask me. I'm not going to go in-depth on why people should do it, or why they shouldn't because ultimately people that label this tactic 'spawn camping', are just scrubs.
people need to stop making excuses for their losses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> People need to start reading topics they reply to
lol no you see, I am one of the people that most everyone is complaining about. Not because I sit in a hive and kill only spawning skulks, but because I rush the hive and end the game in 2 minutes. I've played in a lot of pubs and everytime I end the game in such a manner, all the aliens begin to whine. There is a difference between your fragfest term and what we call a legitimate tactic.
Comments
"Spawn Camping" - not lame, aliens should work together to prevent it.
As for the mines or turrets or OCs, thats completely lame.
Anyhow, I'd suggest you guys quit whining. "Camping" comes in many different forms and this "Spawn Camping" that you all whine about is a legitimate tactic.
This is war, its your life or theirs. No more cowardly complaining about "unfair" tactics, plz.
Just about every person on this board probably ignorantly supports the war in Iraq, but you complain about "unfair" tactics in NS? Thats so ridiculous.
Just like the US, those marines were playing to win. Nobody is playing "fair."
Btw, aliens do have a way to spawn more than one at a time: Multiple hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one don't support bush and I never have, besides it's not a war, its a superpower trampling around on a VERY small country.
but this is a bit off topic the point is, hive lockdowns should be at least fair enough as to let at least ONE skulk get away unseen.
If it was a game like CTF, where your objective is to capture something, it would be lame... but in NS the goal is to KILL every enemy and to PREVENT them from respawning by taking out the hives or IPs.
Killing an Marine or Alien that just spawned is another form of preventing them from spawning... let's just put it as "preventing the enemy from ACTING" instead of spawning.
My oppinion, both as public and Clan player: YAY! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That pretty much sums it up.
Besides which, unless the spawn is full of marines, 1v1 a skulk should generally be able to spawn and kill a marine with ease, given he's next to an uber healing structure. Try holding down a move key and hitting space when you spawn, not after. I rarely get spawnkilled.
but in this game there is no such thing as camping because unlike other fragfests we have real objectives <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
so I say YAY
The team that stays defensive for too long will most likley lose...
Here my personal flow chart that I have seen from the 20 or so demos I have watched of clans like sYn and eve play, and my own personal experience of getting my clan owned in a pre-season match by eve.
Game Beings :30-:2:00min
OPTION 1 Inital skulks rush
>result: Marines are "decent" shots and murder alien team, because of long respawn time and cost of rp's you just ended your alien teams chances of winning.
>Game over for aliens
OPTION 2 Skulks take defensive positions and parasite and ambush as best they can to hold marines up while gorge secures rp nodes and gets intial defense setup.
>result: Marines either push through to hive(see 2b) and start spawn-camping to win. Or, they are held up while a gorge takes nodes(2a) and the game becomes a a normal teching match of capturing nodes, lossing nodes and such.
First Half phase 2:00-10:00
2a) If the alien team can hold up the marines long enough and keep their rp's down low enough they can eventually win, and most likely will. At about the 10:00 mark into the game, you will almost always notice a turn around in play. The kharaa will have carapace by now and probally some decent resourse flow, and are saving up for a second hive. The marines are most likely on the defense and continuing to try and make pushes against the aliens. The aliens will go offensive for the most part and a truely tough battle will begin.
----->Go to 3a, 3b
2b)Marines make it to the hive and begin to kill it and any spawing aliens....this is where it gets hard. You have to switch your priority as a skulk to staying alive using harass tactics and have to have a gorge constantly healing a hive, and at least one skulk must go out and make sure the marines dont get rps. If you can get the marine force fought off for even a second head to their base and attempt to put them back on the defensive. keep you hive alive and capture any nodes you can as a gorge. Of course, if you can't fight them off the marines win.
Second half phase 11:00-20:00
3a)The marines will begin a new rush and keep trying on their hive attacks and the kharaa will keep defending and attacking whenever they get the chance. Defense and offense will switch back and force constantly. The marines will start to get some defensive structures and will most likely attempt to secure 1 or 2 hives. If they secure two, the game is still on, and far from over until the marines max out their tech(about 17:00min), and if they secure one the game will be fought by both sides at pretty much max tech and probally go into what I consider extended play(20:00min-45:00min).
Final Phase 20:00-45:00
At about 20:00min the kharaa should have the second hive up and begin to make strong pushes everywhere. If they marines have teched up they stand a chance of winning if AND ONLY IF they contine to make successful ground pushes and attacks.
Kharaa will win by basic resourse attrition in every game. This is extremely important to remember if you are in a clan match. Keep it under 20:00min and you will most likly win as marines, if it goes over, you will most likely fail as marines and the kharaa will win.
These are the basic goals. Keep the other team defensive and slow. Change strategies often. And Always continue teching up. Marines keep it short, kharaa keep them slow until you can reach full potential.
<b>A note on resourse attrition</b>
Touranment mode cost
>of a battle feild marine :1 rp
>kharaa :1rp
Kharaa with best possible equiptment : 6rp
Marine with best possible equiptment :either 25HMG+9JP, or 25HA+25HMG
healing cost...2rp/heal for marins, 14 for a permanant heal for aliens or free from gorge.
As you can see, the kharaa will win a long game, as the marines will begin to starve if the marine team does not control the map.
Take note that the aliens, because of mobility, have a "slightly" easier (IMO and based on what I have seen) time controling the map and taking out a marine outpost. Its important as a marine team commander, that if you dont win withthe hive rush to immediately begin securing nodes and defending them.(this includes hives).
Ok guys, this is totally based on what I have seen, and I want to thank all the clans that we have fought and spectated that have taught me so much.
you don't have to ban someone for spawncamping hint hint
As for right now? A good tactic if the rest of the marines move in afterword and mop up (aka, killing the hive). If they were there just to rack up "their" kill count, it's lame.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's totally acceptible, the aliens deserve their ruthless punishment for not working as a team.
yay
Therefore since only one spawns at a time *bang bang bang* *dead skulk* *bang bang bang* *dead skulk* so where exactly does the teamwork come into play. And if the marines get 2 or 3 in there then the aliens may as well F4.
i say "nay" for personal gains, ego, "frag score" or whatever reason that doesnt benefit the team much.
but, i say yes when a squad of marines are taking down skulks spawning in while 1 or 2 stays back and prepare a siege/phase. If u guys dled the RED vs EVE match demo, u see that almost the entire team waiting for the skulks to come in and not killing the hive. intimidation won the game. cheap tactic? u decide.
I have been in many spawn killing situations before, and I was the killer much more often then the spawner. Unless it was just 2 IP's I would always ask for backup from my team to finish off the enemy; if they wouldn't come (as was the case too many times) I would disengage, sometimes suicidally, because I have no intention to camp, just to win.
Hmmmm, odd attepmt to insult me.
Read what I said and it shows that when I spawn camp for a few minutes, it gives my team a greater chance to win. What I find fun in NS is playing my hardest to win, and so if that means spawn camping for 5 minutes, then i will do it. I dont find it "fun" by not trying my hardest to kill the enemy, that is pointless to me. If I can finish a game at any stage I will, mainly cos the MOST fun I have is playing against people who are trying their hardest against me and I am trying my hardest vs them. Thats why I dislike publics a lot, and mainly play as many organized games as I can.
Also the fact that if I can get into a hive in a CW and spawn camp sucessfully, guess what, WE WIN, so it IS good practice, as that is 1/2 of my job as a marine in CWs. The actual killing of the aliens isnt hard, the hard part that I practice is getting there, and killing every live alien that trys to kill me, once that is done, all I have to do is shoot at spawning skulks and we have virtually won.
"You feel for my clan" - lovely, you dont even know anything about startagy, so dont even try to talk about it.
Besides if you let me get into your hive and sucessfully kill all of the team, you deserve to loose.
But that's beside the point.
Speaking as primarily a kharaa player, I don't think it's that lame to have marines spawn camping. If you start moving as soon as you spawn, and stay close to the hive you can survive. They boosted the hive healing to deal with this. As for kharaa spawn camping the marines, if they've bottled up the entire team and are not killing the portals, it's incredibly lame. Marines have *NO* chance if a kharaa is camping the portals; the kharaa have some chance if marines are camping.
I'll say the same thing I said about TFC: by all means, use lame tactics. Spawn camp, build sentries just outside my base, chase, turtle, DM. Be warned that if you do, I will make a point of fragging the stupid out of you every chance I get. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait a second, I think you've got this backwards. You think that marines, with ranged weapons, spawncamping an open hive area where alien players drop to the ground 10 seconds apart, unable to move for a second, have a hard job taking out the skulks? When you're in the marine base, and a new marine spawns through an IP, you need to be close enough to attack. When I know there are skulks waiting, I make sure to jump in some direction as soon as I respawn, and start spraying bullets. It doesn't always work, but it can be enough to confuse them and hopefully take them down. Contrast that with appearing in a wide open space (like Waste hive, which is basically an open field) with a marine trainign his lmg or pistol on you. You then have 2 options - try and close the ground between yourself and the marine, to try and take him out (good luck with that) or run like hell and hopefully get somewhere safe. Fish in a barrel for a marine with a half-decent aim. Plus marines can always rely on the comm jumping out at some point to take care of business. So although it's possible for both teams to have a rough time, I still say the marines have an advantage in this situation. A small chance vs no chance. (And let's not forget that marines get remote healing - a skulk in the marine spawn is going to be worn down eventually.)
I don't mind spawncamping when it's a means to an immediate end. Part of a hive rush for example, or trying to hold off the aliens until backup arrives. But merely camping out with the intention of killing everything before it has a chance to move *is* lame, and as such relies on the spirit of the marine team. I don't care whether they're doing it for fun or to allow the rest of the team to tech up for one huge assault. People say that it's your own fault for letting the marines get in that position - but then, it's possible for a marine to sneak their way in at the start, especially on smaller games. And of course, the kharaa are rushing at this point, which means they are constantly dying and respawning. And if they're respawning to instant death, it's pretty obvious that they're screwed.
As far as fixing it goes... I'd like to see the option for skulks to delay their respawn. Like moving from DEAD>REIN>REDY or something, with a 'click to respawn' message. That way a pack of skulks could prepare a small synchronized defensive strike, instead of being picked off one by one - kinda like the Distress Beacon, only with the respawn delay still in place. And hey - skulks waiting for backup instead of respawning are skulks who aren't defending the hive, which gives the marines an advantage in an attack. Unless of course, the marines aren't attacking the hive and are just camping to pick off skulks which are just waking up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
nay
if your waiting for backup then yah
In clan matches and with teams of equal skill, spawn camping is perfectly legit. The players know what they're doing, and it's acceptable to do whatever you can to win...
I think the main problem comes when these '"elite"' marines who are very, very good at this strategy go onto public servers where the skill level of most, if not all, of the players is drastically lower than what the marine is used to. When this happens, it becomes a vary un-fun situation for at the very least the alien team. How can you say 'It's your fault for letting me get into your hive, killing all of you along the way,' in good conscience when you are in effect beating up on a team of NSPlayers? You KNOW you're better than them, and you KNOW they have basically no chance of stopping you, because you're much, much better than they are. Do it once, sure. Fine, you've proved that you're better than their entire team. Good for you. But when it becomes game after game after game of nothing but the same perma-rush to the hive to spawn camp, against a team of players that cannot stand up to you, it becomes lame as hell.
So in some instances, spawn camping is just fine. But it would be nice if the players who *can* effectively spawn-camp against people of equal or lower skill would try to keep in mind the feelings of all the players on the server. Try to make the game as fun as possible for *everyone*, not just yourselves or the part of your team that needs that extra minute and a half to jp/hmg rush (bleh). Make games more *interesting* than the usual '2 marines spawn-camp while the rest of the team conquers the map and then jp/hmg rushes.' Save your "elite" spawn-camping skills for a clan match, or a game where everybody is equally skilled and equipped to deal with such a strategy.
in clan matches we always send a guy to contantly it their hive, their gorge or their res or there def chambers. thats all he does, hunts gorges kinfes res and picks off aliens in thier spawn.
Its a wonderful way to slow the enemy team.
but if you insist.
if aliens dont attack marines spawn
then we wont attack aliens spawn.
As marines we constantly attack one building in their spawn, usually the obs until they get a proto then its the proto. You will be suprised how slow marines go without jpacks and phase gates.
I hate losing my obs as much as i hate losing def chambers.
if you are first of your team there with another few coming in 20 seconds or wahtever then I say YAY!, but if your doing it purley to get more kills then NAY.
So it depends on context I reckon
It is admittedly very useful - but when people of really high skill levels go onto essentially n00b servers to spawn camp and do *nothing* else, until jp/hmg comes out, then I do believe it *does* become lame. They should make the game fun, instead of flaunting their better twitch skills on a server of players that can't fight back.
The thing is when I play on high level pubs, we use good stratagys and spawn camping is vaild in them.
I dont exactly do it in every pub I play, I mean that is pointless, there are other things I have to do in matches that I can practice.
It's pretty simple if you ask me. I'm not going to go in-depth on why people should do it, or why they shouldn't because ultimately people that label this tactic 'spawn camping', are just scrubs.
people need to stop making excuses for their losses.
It's pretty simple if you ask me. I'm not going to go in-depth on why people should do it, or why they shouldn't because ultimately people that label this tactic 'spawn camping', are just scrubs.
people need to stop making excuses for their losses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
People need to start reading topics they reply to
read my post again
... next