<!--QuoteBegin--Praevus+Apr 13 2003, 04:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Praevus @ Apr 13 2003, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lets put it this way, would you prefer Sensory Chambers as the first chamber? Oh wow, cloak for offense.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, yes I would many times, but I'm sure you've already seen the other threads on this topic. Just a little hint: if you're using cloak the same way as you would as a carapace skulk, you're probably not going to meet with much success...
hehe i usually go for Redemption just for kicks hehe <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
let me quote something from a certain PSX RPG(the nineth part of the series). the only certain thing about the future is unreliable(i think it should be unreliability). i think it means that you can't be certain o'what will happen in the future. while all these stategy guides on the strategy forums are in the most decent case 50% crap(i once posted one), this is about all the strategys explained. whle strategical evolutions/class will get the most out of that class. if you post a faq ,or guide you don't have to give them your entire res plan and let 'em do it. you otta explain what does what and how theyrecognize what the other team has(like hives and certain tech) and say what things should/could be usefull, they should present scenarios and give your solution and let the others come up with others and then compile them in one faq. other peeps play different techniqeus, but when someone starts using a different techniqeu, he thinks that the others have no skill since they utilize techniqeus that are common used. and according to me has the original poster of the topic insulted us, for thinking that his so called 1 3 3 7 techniqeus are better than ours( he has not insulted us aware of it perhaps but his post does gives me the impression when reading it). For instance i think snipers are just a bunch of camping pantysniffers that try to look cool and get easy kills. they think we should honor them but i can't find any reason for it, since they just sit there and shoot(in real life things are different), the day i see a sniper actually requiring stealth and skill, then i shall play it and apologize. one other thinks that snipers are the pinacle of skill(not in MOHAA and BF1942 tough) so i punch him in the face and jam a flagpole up his *ss( <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ). K' so this is overreacting. but don't think that using regen or building movements first makes you more skilled, you never know what the future holds so you can regret that you build MC five minutes later. MT can be ressed horrendous fast so silence won't cover yo, so you'll have to switch to celerity to get to the enemy quicker. there was a time when regen was number uno, but then i started with carapace. the good thing about cara is that it raises your armor absorption rate, and that you'll armor will be able to absorb more hits. the extra armor is a bonus to make sure you won't die with 10 armor left ( altough it happens with lerk that i have 20HP and 45 AP left with cara). and Lv3 cara gives 33% extra armor absorb and ATk enhancements gives 30% Dmg so you'll have 3% remaining . so honestly, i don't give a **** about which upgrades you use. post this in the strategy forum, where peeps willl actually interest(don't know why tough) for your opinion., there is even a ELITE LERK SYNDICATE?w that thinks spikes is for lamers and not ELITE SYNDICATE-LERKS O' DOOM-ish?(no insult intended), well i haven't seen the 'rine comm act like: OH **** they got a ELITE SYNDICATE-LERK?, alright team, lets F4. 'hell, i use spikes all the time and hitting peeps shooting at you while you hover around and watch your energy isn't that easy. i can already imagine some new guilds: THE AXIS OF ELITE REGEN-EVOLVING SKULKS? and: THE UNION OF MOVEMENT FIRST GORGES?. why not immediatly get some organized crime-organizations: THE EVIL COMMANDER MAFFIA?. THE EVIL GORGE-KUZA? (they build sensorys if you don't listen to them and the name gorge-kuza is a parody of yakuza). and why not some NS insurance company FADE-CO?,who will cover you for loosing your gear or devolving back to skulk and loosing upgades as a conseqeunce of death. really,peeps. if acting different than the crowd makes you 1 3 3 7, then i must be uber 1 3 3 7.
the essence o' NS is to adapt to your current needs of your team and not yourself also, NS games are mostly different and will require other techniqeus to reach victory. also preset strategys are crap, you'll rarely encounter the exact situation and there are more than one way to counter it.
I'm always cara - longer lifespan means more to me than regenerating health. Here, lets take a look at it this way: Leave to regen heal and let the marine finish what he was doing OR finish him right there and go back to heal when you can
You need carapace because you need life all at once. Screw 9 lmg bullets, a skulk without carapace takes 5 pistol bullets; or 6 shotgun pellets e.g. only 60% accuracy with it. 2 Marines can kill one non-cara skulk instantly; they can kill a large number of skulks without carapace in a few seconds. Marines with just one level of armor upgrade take 33% more damage to kill, one entire more bite. If they have any skill, they will jump back/sideways while being attacked; 9 random lucky bullets and you're gone. Carapace removes that luck factor; the marines have to be very accurate, almost twice as accurate.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twilight[ChBr]+Apr 13 2003, 11:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twilight[ChBr] @ Apr 13 2003, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As others have said, it's all about hiding, surprising, in other words: SKULKING around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are correct, good sir, and it is rare to find the alien with enough patience and sneaky underhandness to set up a good ambush.
I love ramboing as marine right from the start of the game because against your average skulk, or good skulks who have gone lazy, I can sometimes kill the entire team 1.5 times before dying once.
However a skulk who somehow has only let me know of their presence by biting my feet is gonna kill me in the next few secs, unless I am able to dance around him and even then the next skulk who bites me is teh winn4r.
With carapace swarms of skulks are much more effective and the rambo is at best a temporary distraction rather than the path of death - however I'd really like to see sensory and mov't tactics used in the beginning of the game, it would help significantly to retrain those CS nubs and help them on both marine and alien sides.
The problem is that if widespread adoption of sneaky tactics occurs, it <i>might</i> be that aliens will get used to relying on super quick kills, such that if the marine doesn't die immediately and moves erratically, he will be able to pwn the aliens 1 by 1 since they can't track him effectively, having been out of practice. Another thing is that the marines might tend to move in better organized and effective groups, as well as employing real tactics in general (as opposed to running around), but IMO that would be a good development and so mov't sensory adoption helps both sides.
Carapace became essential as soon as marines realised that it only takes a bit of spray in their dirrection to kill them.
Regen is good if you plan on either killing them very very quickly, or running at the first sign of a marine.
Redemption is nice.. but hardly a way to clear some turrets guarded by a marine.
This is all for a skulk though.. 9 bullets to kill an uncarapaced skulk.. with level 0 weaponry. Motion Tracking removes any sorts of ambushing you can do.. unless you feel like sitting still for a very long time=no marine harasment.
It's also very very tough to save your RTs when they kill you as soon as they see you =/
skulks don't really need carapace unless the marines have weapon upgrades, then it becomes necessary, because the lmg will rip skulks apart if it is upgraded
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
Well i suppose that sounds promising <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I have never used carapace as a skulk, I've always used regen or redemption (regen 90% of the time). The main reason for this is the way I play, I go by the saying 'If they can't hit you, they can't kill you'. Now I'm well aware that this is <b>much</b> easier in theory then it is in practise, but being able to dodge like a gerbil on speed is extremely useful. I don't consider myself an expert at this, but by using this playing style and regen I have done many unreal things. Killed 3 marines with shotguns who were standing on the raised part of chemical transport on Tanith. Ran from the north entrance of Ventilation (?) in nothing (anyway it's the room south of Viaduct with the inaccessable walkway above the node) , up the south wall and then charged the guy with the HMG who was up at the other end and had been firing at me ever since I entered the room (I believe I got hit 2-3 times). Jumped into a squad of marines (3 HA/HMG, 1HA/GL, 1GL, 1HMG) outside Eclipse hive and proceeded to bounce between them for half a minute.
<!--QuoteBegin--NoImagination+Apr 14 2003, 04:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NoImagination @ Apr 14 2003, 04:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You say it like it's a good thing. What upgrade comes first doesn't really matter, one upgrade will. The only differance between that order and the previous was that it was switched. Just cosmetics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And as an additional comment - New toys are always more appealing than old toys.
Not that i claim to know which chamber is currently most effective in 1.1 but... I wouldn't expect anything less than every tester wanting to play with the new gadgets. You have a bunch of kids set loose in toys'r'us, it isnt untill the appeal and wonder of the new features fades that you'll start to see people choosing their strategy sensibly.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
First, regen=auto-tracking for marines. (Think the movie with the audio device that gets louder as aliens move closer)
Second, it's faster to bite stuff, and then run back to hive and heal, than it is to sit around and wait for regen.
3rd: Play better marines if they let you survive any significant length of time when you have regen. 9 bullets is all it takes. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> uncara skulks need to start with more armor.
The option of ambushing is always open for a skulk. With carapace, it just opens up an extra option: Rushing the marines head first.
If carapace is removed from the game right now, aliens would most likely lose 90% of all games. Cara is simply put the most efficient counter to ALL the upgrades the marines can research!
it makes 'good skulks better'...........until the other upgs become as efficient DCs are the best (almost 100% skulk effectiveness upped, and it heals things near it??? its a no brainer)
I only take regen to kill turret farms that aren't guarded by marines. Very good on refinery (bast), drop on top of the TF, run around a bit and bite it, then rush to the ceiling to heal and drop down again. Regen is good for healing when you know you will survive the attack. But carapace drastically increases your chances of surviving the attack while regen is sure death if you're going to attack competent marines with MT.
<!--QuoteBegin--wlibaers+Apr 14 2003, 08:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wlibaers @ Apr 14 2003, 08:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Regen is good for healing when you know you will survive the attack. But carapace drastically increases your chances of surviving the attack while regen is sure death if you're going to attack competent marines with MT. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Give this man a ceegar.
I'd like to know what servers you play on where you feel comfortable enough to use regen or no upgrades at all. Please give me some ip's and me and some others will help you change your mind real quick.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
MT doesnt make marines any better at killing. It only allows them to know your location. It is still quite easy to kill marines, just harder to ambush.
simple, regen is a waste of time with skulk. Unless u are taking marines on 1 by 1 in stealth u fight to your pretty much certain death. u last longer with carapace than regen.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
Regen isn't useless, you just don't use it right. You dont use regen like its carapace. Don't expect to jump into 3 marines and live. Regen is better used at other times.
It's not supposed to be used anything like carapace. You can't even use it for ambushing because carapace would actually do that job better. Where regen really shines is in a group and/or areas with lots of cover.
On another note, regeneration is a bit too good for larger aliens though they do die pretty fast against chasing JP/HMGs, then again a carapaced fade dies just as easily.
<!--QuoteBegin--XCan+Apr 13 2003, 11:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Apr 13 2003, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1 major problem for skulks without carapace. Turrets are going to own you, meaning forget taking down any fortified outposts by the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> fully upgraded turret filled room VS 1 skulk...
if the SKULK is me, and ive got regen, i can take down the whole room...
<b>it ALL depends on tactics...</b>
i never upgrade until i hit a room filled with something....unless i'm fade....
You can probably take it down faster using CAR. Just run back to the hive to heal up faster than using REG and while attacking you can take more bites out of the TF before you have to heal up. Overall better I beleive. Besides the faster you do the job the better as I'm sure marines will show up to protect/weld the tf.
[QUOTE=FireWater,Apr 13 2003, 05:59 PM] [QUOTE=sic8,Apr 13 2003, 12:42 PM] Twilight i recommend you test your theory on 65.170.14.110:27025 -=STD v1.04 NS Server=- <--------------- this server. We shall see whether you are playing against good marines or sloppy marines, and plz use regen! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE] Yeah. I kind of giggle at the thought of non-carapaced skulks vs the marine players that frequent that server.
Comments
Actually, yes I would many times, but I'm sure you've already seen the other threads on this topic. Just a little hint: if you're using cloak the same way as you would as a carapace skulk, you're probably not going to meet with much success...
Twilight
EDIT: as a skulk anywayz hehehe
the only certain thing about the future is unreliable(i think it should be unreliability). i think it means that you can't be certain o'what will happen in the future. while all these stategy guides on the strategy forums are in the most decent case 50% crap(i once posted one), this is about all the strategys explained. whle strategical evolutions/class will get the most out of that class. if you post a faq ,or guide you don't have to give them your entire res plan and let 'em do it. you otta explain what does what and how theyrecognize what the other team has(like hives and certain tech) and say what things should/could be usefull, they should present scenarios and give your solution and let the others come up with others and then compile them in one faq. other peeps play different techniqeus, but when someone starts using a different techniqeu, he thinks that the others have no skill since they utilize techniqeus that are common used. and according to me has the original poster of the topic insulted us, for thinking that his so called 1 3 3 7 techniqeus are better than ours( he has not insulted us aware of it perhaps but his post does gives me the impression when reading it). For instance i think snipers are just a bunch of camping pantysniffers that try to look cool and get easy kills. they think we should honor them but i can't find any reason for it, since they just sit there and shoot(in real life things are different), the day i see a sniper actually requiring stealth and skill, then i shall play it and apologize. one other thinks that snipers are the pinacle of skill(not in MOHAA and BF1942 tough) so i punch him in the face and jam a flagpole up his *ss( <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ). K' so this is overreacting. but don't think that using regen or building movements first makes you more skilled, you never know what the future holds so you can regret that you build MC five minutes later.
MT can be ressed horrendous fast so silence won't cover yo, so you'll have to switch to celerity to get to the enemy quicker. there was a time when regen was number uno, but then i started with carapace. the good thing about cara is that it raises your armor absorption rate, and that you'll armor will be able to absorb more hits. the extra armor is a bonus to make sure you won't die with 10 armor left ( altough it happens with lerk that i have 20HP and 45 AP left with cara). and Lv3 cara gives 33% extra armor absorb and ATk enhancements gives 30% Dmg so you'll have 3% remaining . so honestly, i don't give a **** about which upgrades you use. post this in the strategy forum, where peeps willl actually interest(don't know why tough) for your opinion., there is even a ELITE LERK SYNDICATE?w that thinks spikes is for lamers and not ELITE SYNDICATE-LERKS O' DOOM-ish?(no insult intended), well i haven't seen the 'rine comm act like: OH **** they got a ELITE SYNDICATE-LERK?, alright team, lets F4. 'hell, i use spikes all the time and hitting peeps shooting at you while you hover around and watch your energy isn't that easy. i can already imagine some new guilds: THE AXIS OF ELITE REGEN-EVOLVING SKULKS? and: THE UNION OF MOVEMENT FIRST GORGES?. why not immediatly get some organized crime-organizations: THE EVIL COMMANDER MAFFIA?. THE EVIL GORGE-KUZA? (they build sensorys if you don't listen to them and the name gorge-kuza is a parody of yakuza).
and why not some NS insurance company FADE-CO?,who will cover you for loosing your gear or devolving back to skulk and loosing upgades as a conseqeunce of death.
really,peeps. if acting different than the crowd makes you 1 3 3 7, then i must be uber 1 3 3 7.
the essence o' NS is to adapt to your current needs of your team and not yourself
also, NS games are mostly different and will require other techniqeus to reach victory. also preset strategys are crap, you'll rarely encounter the exact situation and there are more than one way to counter it.
Nah, can't say anything new with also saying anything nice. Basically, play against good marines.
As others have said, it's all about hiding, surprising, in other words: SKULKING around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct, good sir, and it is rare to find the alien with enough patience and sneaky underhandness to set up a good ambush.
I love ramboing as marine right from the start of the game because against your average skulk, or good skulks who have gone lazy, I can sometimes kill the entire team 1.5 times before dying once.
However a skulk who somehow has only let me know of their presence by biting my feet is gonna kill me in the next few secs, unless I am able to dance around him and even then the next skulk who bites me is teh winn4r.
With carapace swarms of skulks are much more effective and the rambo is at best a temporary distraction rather than the path of death - however I'd really like to see sensory and mov't tactics used in the beginning of the game, it would help significantly to retrain those CS nubs and help them on both marine and alien sides.
The problem is that if widespread adoption of sneaky tactics occurs, it <i>might</i> be that aliens will get used to relying on super quick kills, such that if the marine doesn't die immediately and moves erratically, he will be able to pwn the aliens 1 by 1 since they can't track him effectively, having been out of practice. Another thing is that the marines might tend to move in better organized and effective groups, as well as employing real tactics in general (as opposed to running around), but IMO that would be a good development and so mov't sensory adoption helps both sides.
Regen is good if you plan on either killing them very very quickly, or running at the first sign of a marine.
Redemption is nice.. but hardly a way to clear some turrets guarded by a marine.
This is all for a skulk though.. 9 bullets to kill an uncarapaced skulk.. with level 0 weaponry. Motion Tracking removes any sorts of ambushing you can do.. unless you feel like sitting still for a very long time=no marine harasment.
It's also very very tough to save your RTs when they kill you as soon as they see you =/
1. Enter their base, chew the phase gate, kill the infantry portal.
It take times and spawning marines, hence regen
2. Waiting for ambush
hence regen
3. Killing turret factories and RT
hence regen
<---I'm not sure why you said uncarapaced skulk has no chance killing TF. It's the chew-run tactic that kills TF.
I haven't played much 1.1 yet. However...
1) Every game I have played (I've only played Kharaa so far), we have gotten Sensory first.
2) In my second to last game, we got Sensory, and then Defense... and many people were annoyed that the gorge dropped Defense instead of Movement.
I rarely ever use regeneration while playing skulks, since I can't do hit and run attacks - that splooshing sound gives me away every time.
Killed 3 marines with shotguns who were standing on the raised part of chemical transport on Tanith.
Ran from the north entrance of Ventilation (?) in nothing (anyway it's the room south of Viaduct with the inaccessable walkway above the node) , up the south wall and then charged the guy with the HMG who was up at the other end and had been firing at me ever since I entered the room (I believe I got hit 2-3 times).
Jumped into a squad of marines (3 HA/HMG, 1HA/GL, 1GL, 1HMG) outside Eclipse hive and proceeded to bounce between them for half a minute.
And as an additional comment - New toys are always more appealing than old toys.
Not that i claim to know which chamber is currently most effective in 1.1 but... I wouldn't expect anything less than every tester wanting to play with the new gadgets. You have a bunch of kids set loose in toys'r'us, it isnt untill the appeal and wonder of the new features fades that you'll start to see people choosing their strategy sensibly.
Second, it's faster to bite stuff, and then run back to hive and heal, than it is to sit around and wait for regen.
3rd: Play better marines if they let you survive any significant length of time when you have regen. 9 bullets is all it takes. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> uncara skulks need to start with more armor.
The option of ambushing is always open for a skulk. With carapace, it just opens up an extra option: Rushing the marines head first.
If carapace is removed from the game right now, aliens would most likely lose 90% of all games. Cara is simply put the most efficient counter to ALL the upgrades the marines can research!
it makes 'good skulks better'...........until the other upgs become as efficient DCs are the best
(almost 100% skulk effectiveness upped, and it heals things near it??? its a no brainer)
in 1.1 I hope it changes
Regen is good for healing when you know you will survive the attack. But carapace drastically increases your chances of surviving the attack while regen is sure death if you're going to attack competent marines with MT.
Give this man a ceegar.
I'd like to know what servers you play on where you feel comfortable enough to use regen or no upgrades at all. Please give me some ip's and me and some others will help you change your mind real quick.
forget MT, how about just "competent marines".
On another note, regeneration is a bit too good for larger aliens though they do die pretty fast against chasing JP/HMGs, then again a carapaced fade dies just as easily.
fully upgraded turret filled room VS 1 skulk...
if the SKULK is me, and ive got regen, i can take down the whole room...
<b>it ALL depends on tactics...</b>
i never upgrade until i hit a room filled with something....unless i'm fade....
Overall better I beleive. Besides the faster you do the job the better as I'm sure marines will show up to protect/weld the tf.
Twilight i recommend you test your theory on 65.170.14.110:27025 -=STD v1.04 NS Server=- <--------------- this server. We shall see whether you are playing against good marines or sloppy marines, and plz use regen! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE]
Yeah. I kind of giggle at the thought of non-carapaced skulks vs the marine players that frequent that server.