Speaking personally the only time I've had problems with cara/cele fades as an HMG/HAer are when they're accompanied by a gorge webbing or lerk umbraing. I'd LOVE for some of you decent players to come and show me how good it really is!!
Roo
163.1.180.217:27016
(PS I'll try it out myself sometime too, I've not used it yet as I've also had very few problems as a regen/adren fade, not saying I'm good, just saying I've not had problems with the opposition so far)
DID YOU KNOW THAT: if you jump, then crouch in mid air, and then blink, the success rate goes thru the roof? KNOW YOU KNOW!
(an s*load of cool points if anyone can name the TV show where that comes from) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bill ny the science guy? (spelling <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteBegin--Rion+Apr 1 2003, 07:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rion @ Apr 1 2003, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fades cost way to much to do a Skulk's job. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um... last time i checked Fades take a TAD longer to die under HMG fire than skulks. And if you would like to put it this way i can say Onos cost too much res to destroy a marine base, since a skulk could. Please. and in reply to roobuba, maybe you havent been playing against good fades yet <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> just my 2 cents
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Nah, to avoid sounding conceited, sure, I'll be wary of a 3/3 HA/HMG, but hey, he's got what? Over 200 rez worth of kit there. By the time they have 3/3, I should be Onos <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually, I you need a bit of a mixture of range and melee to be a good fade team....
If a team focusses too much on one aspect of fades, they will be less efficient as the way of dealing with them will be more predictable.
Example: The marine counter to a team of all melee fades is simple: Spread out, and be focus fire on a single fade, this is not as hard when it's not you he is trying to kill.
The counter for all range fade team is even simpler: Have one or two marines cut off their retreat (always very important). Then have the rest charge them, this will usually send them running. Hiding out near the DC farm where they will all go can be very satisfying
On a side note... Redemption works fine if you have only one guy shooting at you, if its two, you will often die before you redeem out.
I seem to remember someone saying "what do I do against a shotgun, then?":
Shotgun dodging is different from dodging continuous-fire weapons like machineguns. You get really good at it from playing TFC (lots and lots and lots of shotgun duels in TFC). Most of the rules for machinegun dodging do not apply - you're allowed to cross over the line of fire as many times as you like because there isn't really one. The trick is to move unpredictably to throw off them anticipating you, rather than dodging around their fire.
Anyways, if you want to get good at dodging shotgun fire: play lots and lots of TFC. If you want to get good at dodging machinegun fire: play lots and lots of Perfect Dark.
i have been meaning to try melee fade. I usually stick with my skulk as I'm better in melee then with acid rockets. now I have something that will let me have more melee fun. Just have to work on perfecting my blink and I'm set!
Btw: The quote is from G.I. Joe <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone who can beat a HMG/HA marine with claws is playing against really bad marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd put my money on claws beating HA over acid rocket. Not to mention it really isnt all that hard, just find the train and pick off the last guy, with celerity you can run circles around the guy and avoid most of the fire.
I did try this a few times but I can't see much benefit over Blink & Claw. Celerity isn't much faster than bunny hopping, and blinking provides a perfect escape.
I've never had any problems with blinking, and players who use Blink alot, will probably testify that it's one of the best things to have.
Blink, bunnyhopping & clawing at same time, blink to safety, heal, repeat....
Celerity is best when used in areas that have a lot of turns. Not only can you feign a retreat and then just as quickly pop out, but blink is somewhat negated by the fact that it must be done several times. Celerity also makes it more difficult to hit a fade in close combat, and to close shorter distances. Blink is an effective method of transportation, but loses some of the efficiency and accuracy of walking/running at shorter ranges. You are also able to move quickly, even when you have less energy than required to blink.
I've been doing celerity + carapace now since 1.02 and what can i say, I love it. You can spin circles around marines and 95% of the time be gone before his buds have a chance to kill you, especially if you are blinking and running, talk about impossible to catch. I can easily outshine the acid spammers in terms of kills, and no a heavy is no much for you if you are smart. Just circle strafe constantly. If you get badly injured leave, heal, and come back, you can do it in nothing flat. And yes if you crouch when using your blink you will up your success rate dramatically.
A request from a career Lerk, if you are a Redemption Fade, please inform your Lerk support crew of that, so they don't chase you into melee to umbra you, just to have you disappear... leaving the poor Lerk as the only target. When I'm Support Lerking I assume the Fades I'm with are either Regen or Carapace and do my best to extend their life and assist them in melee. If I know they're Redemption, I'll let them run in and just support them from afar with spikes and fly off when they get pulled out. I'd just like to know ahead of time so I don't have to lose 37 rez points to learn it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The advantage of celerity isn't just that it helps you to close the distance. It lets you move faster in the melee when you actually arrive at your target, enabling you to dodge the gunfire better. Also, the bhopping argument isn't valid because it's being removed in 1.1 (thank god). Anyways, celerity and blink are far from mutually exclusive. I use blink a fair bit but I don't find it reliable enough to trust in every situation. I use it as a trick up my sleeve, but I never rely on it.
Not to be a show stealer, but I think a lot of you guys are getting too caught up in the tactical aspect and not the "paper/rock/scissors" strategy aspect of combat. Adren/regen/acid rocket fades can typically beat a HA/HMG with ease. HA/HMG takes down melee fades if they are slightly skilled low pingers. Melee fades take out LA, lmg marines. Meanwhile a skilled lmg marine can typically beat the Adren/regen/acid rocket fade. Think of it strategically, and if you are trying to assert which one is the best, it totally depends on the player, and team play dynamic. A fast fade is useful in sneak attacks on LA opponents anywhere on the map. A adreny, acid rocket fade is more suited for long range combat where retreating is a viable option. Choose your poison folks, but seriously stop asserting tactical dominance on what is the best. Oh and folks claw fades are relatively novel that is why they are more effective as of the moment, but overall that will not be the ase when marines adapt to it. Thats when the strategy gets mixed up and its a fun game. :-)
<!--QuoteBegin--Little Hunter+Mar 29 2003, 12:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Little Hunter @ Mar 29 2003, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In most games when the alien team gets two hives, the fades always grab the upgrades regeration and adren. As we all know the point of this set up upgrades is for the fade to pop out, shot off three acid rockets then duck behind cover and heal up. However, many skilled marines, jetpackers, and hev armor guys can counter this plan by chasing the fade down or absorbing the damage. I'm sure many of you are shouting blink at me right now, but we all know that it only works about 60% of the time. One idea for the fade I have been trying out is what I have nicknamed the "claw" fade. In stead of getting adren and regn when I become a fade, I instead get redemption and celecy. The plan for the claw fade is to run into a pack of marines (or buildings) and slash everying with his claws. When he gets damaged he will be redemptioned out. Because redemption works on precents of health and the fade has 300 hp (with armor) there is a good buffer zone so you will almost never die. Also since with redemption you only dissapear, it can leave panicing marines firing at the wall, instead of your teammates. For those of you who thing celecy is useless try it on a fade. Even with out blinking a level 3 celecy fade can move almost as fast as a leaping skulk. One of the better thing about the claw fade is that since he has redemption you wont be needing to spend 54 res to reevolve often. This can help since in many clan games the aliens are able to get fades just before one of their hives are killed by a group of jetpackers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, this is something I've been using for quite sometime. Good tactic for more people too see. A recommended read for everyone. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Um... i rmb many MANY ppl posting this before. All were trying to do is convince MORE ppl that acid spamming = no no. BUT, in a squad of fades, there should be SOME versatality. A mix of celerity and adren would kill anything.
You redemption lovers need to learn to set up a healing station. Nothing like taking twice the hits and running half as far to attack again....
Remeber: No Cara -> 23 - 29 LMG shots to kill a fade. Full Cara -> 58 - 77 LMG shots.
No Cara -> 12 - 15 Pistol. Full Cara -> 28 - 37 Pistol.
No Cara -> 13 - 17 HMG. Full Cara -> 32 - 40 HMG.
No Cara -> 1.5 - 1.9 Shotgun. Full Cara -> 3.6 - 4.7 Shotgun.
No Cara -> 10 - 13 Turret shots. Full Cara -> 25 - 32 Turret shots.
This and more facts I have NOTHING to do with, and deserve 0 credit for. <a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm</a>
I myself go for cara adren, due to the ability to acid and melee very well
Also I am a blink fanatic so adren is a must.
I dont think taking a specialised role will be so good unless u have true acid spammers as well, due the key to NS, Tactical versatility!!!
I can acid a base or some rines from a distance due to the aren, then blink and claw em due to the cara.
Ill admit I cant last forever, having to go back for healing a lot, but I AM a blink fanatic so I get place quickly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Debonair+Apr 9 2003, 12:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Debonair @ Apr 9 2003, 12:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not to be a show stealer, but I think a lot of you guys are getting too caught up in the tactical aspect and not the "paper/rock/scissors" strategy aspect of combat. Adren/regen/acid rocket fades can typically beat a HA/HMG with ease. HA/HMG takes down melee fades if they are slightly skilled low pingers. Melee fades take out LA, lmg marines. Meanwhile a skilled lmg marine can typically beat the Adren/regen/acid rocket fade. Think of it strategically, and if you are trying to assert which one is the best, it totally depends on the player, and team play dynamic. A fast fade is useful in sneak attacks on LA opponents anywhere on the map. A adreny, acid rocket fade is more suited for long range combat where retreating is a viable option. Choose your poison folks, but seriously stop asserting tactical dominance on what is the best. Oh and folks claw fades are relatively novel that is why they are more effective as of the moment, but overall that will not be the ase when marines adapt to it. Thats when the strategy gets mixed up and its a fun game. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really. A skilled melee fade is able to drop a HA\HMG most of the time. Melee fades a good for a hell of a lot more than hunting down LA\LMG - they can do anything an acid fade can do, and they'll do it more efficiently too. The drawback of melee is that it's not as safe as acid, so if you screw up you get killed. The advantage is that you do much more damage.
Can we drop the ridiculous "Acid fade" / "Melee fade" labels? I don't see a little option when i go fade asking me if i want to use claws or acid rockets. You have BOTH weapons, and practically zero weapon switch time. Use them BOTH, as applicable to the situation.
Choosing adrenaline does not stop you from blinking and clawing, choosing celerity does not stop you from using hit and run.
Although on a side note, choosing regeneration or redemption does stop you from staying in a fight for more than a brief moment against any concentrated fire :)
As it stands in 1.04, carapace is so godly overpowered in comparison to every other upgrade that there is no reason to choose anything other than carapace unless you are gorging. Wake up and smell the coffee, redeption dramatically reduces the amount of damage you can actually inflict. Never dying is quite meaningless if you can acomplish little more than the occasional LA kill before being ported back to the hive. A carapace fade tanks for so much damage that you have a massive safety buffer if you wish to avoid death, take a look at the figures. After taking enough damage to redeem a redemption fade, a carapace fade still has over 2 thirds of his life left, if you wish to escape manually after this amount of damage there is very little that can stop you doing so. Repemption fades **** marines off, carapace fades win games in 30 seconds.
Comments
I'd LOVE for some of you decent players to come and show me how good it really is!!
Roo
163.1.180.217:27016
(PS I'll try it out myself sometime too, I've not used it yet as I've also had very few problems as a regen/adren fade, not saying I'm good, just saying I've not had problems with the opposition so far)
DID YOU KNOW THAT: if you jump, then crouch in mid air, and then blink, the success rate goes thru the roof?
KNOW YOU KNOW!
(an s*load of cool points if anyone can name the TV show where that comes from) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bill ny the science guy? (spelling <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Um... last time i checked Fades take a TAD longer to die under HMG fire than skulks. And if you would like to put it this way i can say Onos cost too much res to destroy a marine base, since a skulk could. Please. and in reply to roobuba, maybe you havent been playing against good fades yet <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> just my 2 cents
If a team focusses too much on one aspect of fades, they will be less efficient as the way of dealing with them will be more predictable.
Example:
The marine counter to a team of all melee fades is simple: Spread out, and be focus fire on a single fade, this is not as hard when it's not you he is trying to kill.
The counter for all range fade team is even simpler: Have one or two marines cut off their retreat (always very important). Then have the rest charge them, this will usually send them running. Hiding out near the DC farm where they will all go can be very satisfying
On a side note... Redemption works fine if you have only one guy shooting at you, if its two, you will often die before you redeem out.
Shotgun dodging is different from dodging continuous-fire weapons like machineguns. You get really good at it from playing TFC (lots and lots and lots of shotgun duels in TFC). Most of the rules for machinegun dodging do not apply - you're allowed to cross over the line of fire as many times as you like because there isn't really one. The trick is to move unpredictably to throw off them anticipating you, rather than dodging around their fire.
Anyways, if you want to get good at dodging shotgun fire: play lots and lots of TFC. If you want to get good at dodging machinegun fire: play lots and lots of Perfect Dark.
Btw: The quote is from G.I. Joe <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd put my money on claws beating HA over acid rocket. Not to mention it really isnt all that hard, just find the train and pick off the last guy, with celerity you can run circles around the guy and avoid most of the fire.
I've never had any problems with blinking, and players who use Blink alot, will probably testify that it's one of the best things to have.
Blink, bunnyhopping & clawing at same time, blink to safety, heal, repeat....
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Think of it strategically, and if you are trying to assert which one is the best, it totally depends on the player, and team play dynamic. A fast fade is useful in sneak attacks on LA opponents anywhere on the map. A adreny, acid rocket fade is more suited for long range combat where retreating is a viable option. Choose your poison folks, but seriously stop asserting tactical dominance on what is the best. Oh and folks claw fades are relatively novel that is why they are more effective as of the moment, but overall that will not be the ase when marines adapt to it. Thats when the strategy gets mixed up and its a fun game. :-)
You know, this is something I've been using for quite sometime. Good tactic for more people too see. A recommended read for everyone. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Remeber:
No Cara -> 23 - 29 LMG shots to kill a fade.
Full Cara -> 58 - 77 LMG shots.
No Cara -> 12 - 15 Pistol.
Full Cara -> 28 - 37 Pistol.
No Cara -> 13 - 17 HMG.
Full Cara -> 32 - 40 HMG.
No Cara -> 1.5 - 1.9 Shotgun.
Full Cara -> 3.6 - 4.7 Shotgun.
No Cara -> 10 - 13 Turret shots.
Full Cara -> 25 - 32 Turret shots.
This and more facts I have NOTHING to do with, and deserve 0 credit for. <a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm</a>
I myself go for cara adren, due to the ability to acid and melee very well
Also I am a blink fanatic so adren is a must.
I dont think taking a specialised role will be so good unless u have true acid spammers as well, due the key to NS, Tactical versatility!!!
I can acid a base or some rines from a distance due to the aren, then blink and claw em due to the cara.
Ill admit I cant last forever, having to go back for healing a lot, but I AM a blink fanatic so I get place quickly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Think of it strategically, and if you are trying to assert which one is the best, it totally depends on the player, and team play dynamic. A fast fade is useful in sneak attacks on LA opponents anywhere on the map. A adreny, acid rocket fade is more suited for long range combat where retreating is a viable option. Choose your poison folks, but seriously stop asserting tactical dominance on what is the best. Oh and folks claw fades are relatively novel that is why they are more effective as of the moment, but overall that will not be the ase when marines adapt to it. Thats when the strategy gets mixed up and its a fun game. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. A skilled melee fade is able to drop a HA\HMG most of the time. Melee fades a good for a hell of a lot more than hunting down LA\LMG - they can do anything an acid fade can do, and they'll do it more efficiently too. The drawback of melee is that it's not as safe as acid, so if you screw up you get killed. The advantage is that you do much more damage.
Choosing adrenaline does not stop you from blinking and clawing, choosing celerity does not stop you from using hit and run.
Although on a side note, choosing regeneration or redemption does stop you from staying in a fight for more than a brief moment against any concentrated fire :)
As it stands in 1.04, carapace is so godly overpowered in comparison to every other upgrade that there is no reason to choose anything other than carapace unless you are gorging. Wake up and smell the coffee, redeption dramatically reduces the amount of damage you can actually inflict. Never dying is quite meaningless if you can acomplish little more than the occasional LA kill before being ported back to the hive. A carapace fade tanks for so much damage that you have a massive safety buffer if you wish to avoid death, take a look at the figures. After taking enough damage to redeem a redemption fade, a carapace fade still has over 2 thirds of his life left, if you wish to escape manually after this amount of damage there is very little that can stop you doing so. Repemption fades **** marines off, carapace fades win games in 30 seconds.
Yay, some1 agrees with me!(note the whole tactical versatility thing)