if you get to see the marine kills who should get sentry kills. who should get siege turret kills? the commander? or anyone who touched the turret while building it? it may actually help the teamwork of the marines because people love thier score like an idol and will do anything to get it higher, as in helping to build to get stuff faster.
i like the way it is now, but there is a way to see the marine kills and just making oyu type in the console command wastes time.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cry Havoc+Jan 28 2003, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cry Havoc @ Jan 28 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [QUOTE=FireWater,Jan 28 2003, 03:15 PM] <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE] 2 kills but he can take out a bunch of towers? Ok Ok, lets say there is a wall of lame by horseshoe side of eclipse. Now 5 people go to attack the hive that is at Computer Core, and mister 2/20 goes to take out that wall of lame. Who is of more use, the people that attack the hive and could potentially end the game, or the guy who has no pressure on him to take out D chambers with his knife, should this guy be rewarded over the guys at the hive?
is he the better teamplayer? or are the better team players are the ones who can listen to the commander not be dead weight.
Who would you trust with expensive equipment, the people that can move and aim correctly, or someone that can press their "e" key and knife structures.
All circumstances based on the marine team wanting to win of course. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE] Exactly. Those who obey orders and work to help the team are more valuable then someone who just has more kills. If someone gets a kill or two while completing an objective, then all the better. But helping to further the team's goals is what's important, which is something that isn't shown in a simple kill count.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I dunno the way i see it, people who cant see their own scores cannot improve. By not seeing one's own score, one does not have incentive
i.e.
"Oh **** i'm 2/9 i should step up my game a little otherwise the commander wont drop me any good gear"
"WOW i'm 40/5?!? damn all that practicing has been paying off, if i keep this up, maybe some clan will notice me".
It does not hurt to know your own personal progress and unless a brand new point system is in place, the only way to show marine scores.
I know I've said this before, but on the Marine team, having the most kills does NOT make you the best player on your team. Just because <b>YOU</b> possess the ability to run off and hose the entire alien team with an LMG whilst ignoring any and all orders from your Commander does not make you the best player on the team. The player who follows the orders to his maximum ability and tries his best to excel in that particular job is undoubtedly the MVP. There are many valuable players on a team, not just Mr. Sylvester Stallone.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet as 9 pages is a bit much on this topic BUT, a commander can tell the best shots on his team by the position OF the names. Even though the marines CAN'T see their individual scores their scores are tallied AND adjustments made in the player listing. If you watch who's name is at the top of the list you will know who your best shots are. Adding the stats view won't change that, really if you didn't know that you have to be pretty dense, especially if yoou have played any other HL mod.
Personally i feel we should be able to see our scores, but its not CS, i know that. but if your not gonna show the scores. then you should change the way it looks on the HUD too.
Ugggg, PLEASE don't remove the kills from aliens. If you do this you're removing one of the neat things about this game...that each side is fun for different reasons.
Honestly, I don't see what removing the kills from alien side would do. How would this in any way make aliens work together more? What would this add to the gameplay?
If you changed anything I would suggest making it so only the commander of the team can see his marines scores (to help with doling out weapons and ammo). Otherwise PLEASE keep it the same.
I think that each player should see only his or her own stats. Why show the stats of your teammates? or that of the opposing team? It's useless. No point in seeing someone elses score.
If a player needs the kills/deaths to figure out if they're improving, they must not be paying attention to the stuff that matters.
Having fun, and feeling confident. Both are far more reliable indicators <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> As Mark Twain said, there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Competition is a GOOD thing for the Kharaa playstyle. If everyone is interested in their killscores and trying to beat the others, the whole team does more damage. The marines have to be self-sacrificing; the Kharaa just have to be skilled teamplayers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I mostly play Kharaa, and I <i>like</i> competing with the other skulks to try to get the highest killscore. And I still rally to defend hives and stuff, it's not like I think of kills first last and only. Please leave it in? It's not doing any harm (not nearly as much harm as putting it in for marines would do).
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Jan 28 2003, 09:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jan 28 2003, 09:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Brutus+Jan 27 2003, 03:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brutus @ Jan 27 2003, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say all scores. Taking away the scoreboard will not make people play as a team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It won't make anyone play as a team, but in a teamgame like NS, the idea that frag-based scores say anything is just plain wrong. Until somebody comes up with a way of properly representing the individual achievement of each player, I'd say it's best to not show anything at all, because all it can do is mislead people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I fully agree with Nemesis Zero, which is why for the moment I'm in favor of showing nothing but team scores.
I'd post my idea of a damage/resource based score solution, but as I understand it the resource model may change in 1.1, and I don't know how significantly. So at least until then, I'll hold off my personal rantings of how my idea "roxors boxors" and so on.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>THE BEST SCORE IDEA I HAVE HEARD:</span>
Keep it how it is but remove deaths for the Aliens. This, IMO, provides the maximum incentive for aliens to be competitive with nothing holding them back, while still motivating them by providing competition between teammates. I personally think that is the best way to do things.
<!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+Jan 29 2003, 01:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Jan 29 2003, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dunno the way i see it, people who cant see their own scores cannot improve. By not seeing one's own score, one does not have incentive
i.e.
"Oh **** i'm 2/9 i should step up my game a little otherwise the commander wont drop me any good gear"
"WOW i'm 40/5?!? damn all that practicing has been paying off, if i keep this up, maybe some clan will notice me".
It does not hurt to know your own personal progress and unless a brand new point system is in place, the only way to show marine scores. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Now that the 'gauging value to the team based on number of kills' reasoning is kind of out of the way, I agree that a person should be able to tell how well they're doing. However, you can accomplish that without the need for a kill count to be shown to everyone.
<!--QuoteBegin--neonfaktory+Jan 29 2003, 06:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (neonfaktory @ Jan 29 2003, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>THE BEST SCORE IDEA I HAVE HEARD:</span>
Keep it how it is but remove deaths for the Aliens. This, IMO, provides the maximum incentive for aliens to be competitive with nothing holding them back, while still motivating them by providing competition between teammates. I personally think that is the best way to do things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not bad
All scores hidden in casual mode. All scores on in Tourney mode. My reasoning there is that if you're in a clan playing in a scrim, you really probably aren't too concerned about your frags, probably more concerned about your clan winning the match.
In pubs, people always look at their scores and play to frag people, which is not what the game's about. I think people will notice you if you do good anyway, I don't see a reason to track frags.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Cotillion+Jan 30 2003, 09:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cotillion @ Jan 30 2003, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Another pointless change brought about by whinging fools. Just show both scores, it will make no difference to how people play.
If you want a team game that doesnt have scores go play warcraft or something and stop crying about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that was the dumbest post. ever.
like saying if you want scores go play cs..or dod...or the other kazillion mods out there.
No one has given a good reason to show frags at all besides they like them. They claim its so the commander knows his better shots, or so they know they are doing well, but that is silly. A decent player doesn't need frag counts to know the answers to those. They just deny that people won't change the way they play which is wrong. I have seen the way stats effects players in CS and scores will be the same thing. I run a NS server and a CS server and I like the way the scores are now.
If anything is changed, I really hope that the server op can decide which method he/she wants to use. I see no reason to remove the aliens scores, as they do ened teamwork, but they don't have a commander to listen to. They can run off and get frags all they want. If a hive is being attacked, they go defend it and get scores. But what happens to the marine that is sitting in a hive doing his duty by protecting it, doesn't get attacked? He gets no frags, where some yahoo that runs off on his own and doesn't listen to the commander gets 10 frags cause he is a good shot... I know when I am doing well and when I am not doing well without frag counts...
Trust me, a pub server with frags will be like playing CS with differant skins. No one will want to command cause they want those frags, and no one will want to stay at a location where there arn't any enemys cause they won't get frags. The game will goto hell because the marines can't win without lots of teamwork (Aliens can win with only a little teamwork as long as the gorge is good)
If you really want scores, go get stats, phycostats will show you how your doing compared to the entire server, instead of just the people playing on one game, and that shows how you are doing better anyways, because you could get 20 - 0 against crappy players, and 0 - 20 against good players. Your score in a single game means nothing.
you guys do realise even if they take off the scores for both teams all you have to do is type in "status" in console and you get everyones score shown to you, with the wonid, deaths, time, and eveyrthing the server collect.
Trash talking hasn't stopped with hidden marine stats. And it isn't more than normal with shown alien stats. Everyone knows teamwork is unchanged due to this also. Matter of fact, aliens normally always have better teamwork.
Lets not forgot that this is a skill based game. If you cannot aim, shoot, kill, you simply will not survive. Yes being a builder and listener is a large part of the game... But who cares if you listen but can't get kills or always die when building. SHOW EVERYONES SCORES I say.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
jeb speaks the truth, as for trash talking sure, it happens but more of a joke or friendly way not in the im-better-than-you...although it DOES happen with aliens cause of scores <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Feb 1 2003, 09:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Feb 1 2003, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But who cares if you listen but can't get kills or always die when building. SHOW EVERYONES SCORES I say. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Apparently you care, since you believe it's worse than someone who goes around to up their kill count.
I don't think scores of any type should be shown, team scores are even worse. IMHO though, it would be great as a togglable server variable <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i agree, i think a server variable would be nice that way the dev team could test to see if the game play is better on the server without scores or the server with scores. Maybe like mp_showmarinescore or some sort of variable, i think it would be really nice, and would put the "OMG IF U SEE YOUR SCORE YOU WONT PLAY AS A TEAM" agruement to rest, because of hard results.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Zergling+Feb 3 2003, 07:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zergling @ Feb 3 2003, 07:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i like alien scores, simply because i can brag about that time I went 42-4 as skulk in a 8v8 game. (I did. Honestly.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> go back to cs. we don't care about your or anyone else's frags
Comments
i like the way it is now, but there is a way to see the marine kills and just making oyu type in the console command wastes time.
**if you type status in console it shows kills.
2 kills but he can take out a bunch of towers? Ok Ok, lets say there is a wall of lame by horseshoe side of eclipse. Now 5 people go to attack the hive that is at Computer Core, and mister 2/20 goes to take out that wall of lame. Who is of more use, the people that attack the hive and could potentially end the game, or the guy who has no pressure on him to take out D chambers with his knife, should this guy be rewarded over the guys at the hive?
is he the better teamplayer? or are the better team players are the ones who can listen to the commander not be dead weight.
Who would you trust with expensive equipment, the people that can move and aim correctly, or someone that can press their "e" key and knife structures.
All circumstances based on the marine team wanting to win of course. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> [/QUOTE]
Exactly. Those who obey orders and work to help the team are more valuable then someone who just has more kills. If someone gets a kill or two while completing an objective, then all the better. But helping to further the team's goals is what's important, which is something that isn't shown in a simple kill count.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno the way i see it, people who cant see their own scores cannot improve. By not seeing one's own score, one does not have incentive
i.e.
"Oh **** i'm 2/9 i should step up my game a little otherwise the commander wont drop me any good gear"
"WOW i'm 40/5?!? damn all that practicing has been paying off, if i keep this up, maybe some clan will notice me".
It does not hurt to know your own personal progress and unless a brand new point system is in place, the only way to show marine scores.
Honestly, I don't see what removing the kills from alien side would do. How would this in any way make aliens work together more? What would this add to the gameplay?
If you changed anything I would suggest making it so only the commander of the team can see his marines scores (to help with doling out weapons and ammo). Otherwise PLEASE keep it the same.
Having fun, and feeling confident. Both are far more reliable indicators <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> As Mark Twain said, there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Competition is a GOOD thing for the Kharaa playstyle. If everyone is interested in their killscores and trying to beat the others, the whole team does more damage. The marines have to be self-sacrificing; the Kharaa just have to be skilled teamplayers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I mostly play Kharaa, and I <i>like</i> competing with the other skulks to try to get the highest killscore. And I still rally to defend hives and stuff, it's not like I think of kills first last and only. Please leave it in? It's not doing any harm (not nearly as much harm as putting it in for marines would do).
It won't make anyone play as a team, but in a teamgame like NS, the idea that frag-based scores say anything is just plain wrong.
Until somebody comes up with a way of properly representing the individual achievement of each player, I'd say it's best to not show anything at all, because all it can do is mislead people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully agree with Nemesis Zero, which is why for the moment I'm in favor of showing nothing but team scores.
I'd post my idea of a damage/resource based score solution, but as I understand it the resource model may change in 1.1, and I don't know how significantly. So at least until then, I'll hold off my personal rantings of how my idea "roxors boxors" and so on.
Keep it how it is but remove deaths for the Aliens. This, IMO, provides the maximum incentive for aliens to be competitive with nothing holding them back, while still motivating them by providing competition between teammates. I personally think that is the best way to do things.
i.e.
"Oh **** i'm 2/9 i should step up my game a little otherwise the commander wont drop me any good gear"
"WOW i'm 40/5?!? damn all that practicing has been paying off, if i keep this up, maybe some clan will notice me".
It does not hurt to know your own personal progress and unless a brand new point system is in place, the only way to show marine scores. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that the 'gauging value to the team based on number of kills' reasoning is kind of out of the way, I agree that a person should be able to tell how well they're doing. However, you can accomplish that without the need for a kill count to be shown to everyone.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keep it how it is but remove deaths for the Aliens. This, IMO, provides the maximum incentive for aliens to be competitive with nothing holding them back, while still motivating them by providing competition between teammates. I personally think that is the best way to do things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
not bad
All scores hidden in casual mode. All scores on in Tourney mode. My reasoning there is that if you're in a clan playing in a scrim, you really probably aren't too concerned about your frags, probably more concerned about your clan winning the match.
In pubs, people always look at their scores and play to frag people, which is not what the game's about. I think people will notice you if you do good anyway, I don't see a reason to track frags.
<i>edit:</i> dei spelling
If you want a team game that doesnt have scores go play warcraft or something and stop crying about it.
If you want a team game that doesnt have scores go play warcraft or something and stop crying about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that was the dumbest post. ever.
like saying if you want scores go play cs..or dod...or the other kazillion mods out there.
They just deny that people won't change the way they play which is wrong. I have seen the way stats effects players in CS and scores will be the same thing. I run a NS server and a CS server and I like the way the scores are now.
If anything is changed, I really hope that the server op can decide which method he/she wants to use.
I see no reason to remove the aliens scores, as they do ened teamwork, but they don't have a commander to listen to. They can run off and get frags all they want. If a hive is being attacked, they go defend it and get scores. But what happens to the marine that is sitting in a hive doing his duty by protecting it, doesn't get attacked? He gets no frags, where some yahoo that runs off on his own and doesn't listen to the commander gets 10 frags cause he is a good shot...
I know when I am doing well and when I am not doing well without frag counts...
Trust me, a pub server with frags will be like playing CS with differant skins. No one will want to command cause they want those frags, and no one will want to stay at a location where there arn't any enemys cause they won't get frags. The game will goto hell because the marines can't win without lots of teamwork (Aliens can win with only a little teamwork as long as the gorge is good)
If you really want scores, go get stats, phycostats will show you how your doing compared to the entire server, instead of just the people playing on one game, and that shows how you are doing better anyways, because you could get 20 - 0 against crappy players, and 0 - 20 against good players. Your score in a single game means nothing.
Lets not forgot that this is a skill based game. If you cannot aim, shoot, kill, you simply will not survive. Yes being a builder and listener is a large part of the game... But who cares if you listen but can't get kills or always die when building. SHOW EVERYONES SCORES I say.
down with the scores!
Apparently you care, since you believe it's worse than someone who goes around to up their kill count.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
go back to cs. we don't care about your or anyone else's frags