ns2_hera2018

XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
edited November 10 in Mapping
Hi,

Following this topic, I honored my promise releasing an ns2_hera :)

https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/140321/port-ns2-hera/p1


WORKSHOP LINK =

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1550262479



Here are the boring informations :

Creators :
ns_hera by...

ns2_hera for Diamondgammer server (+ NS1 mod) by Avoca & Rusty :

ns2_hera_2018 for NS2.0 by Xale (NS1Player)


Changelog

This changelog apply to Rusty's version released ~4 years ago

- April 2018 : Beginning of the project
- September 2018 : Beta Testing
- October 2018 : Released !

#### Changelog ####


ReadyRoom :


- Removed Diamonds
- Added some Ready_Room_Player
- added some lights
- added ambiance sounds

Entities :

- ns2_gamerules : Now in center of readyroom
- skybox : Now in center of readyroom
- path_meshing : Created in center of readyroom
-
- Added power_points for each room
- Added some Commander_camera

Light :

- Extra Light for some rooms especially Entrance & Reception / Maintenance Corridor


RT Change :

- Added a node in Maintenance Corridor (like in old NS)
- Processing node is now downstairs (N2 behavior)
- Marine start RT replaced inside as in NS1.0 (NB : outside is blocked by a force field now sorry)
- Holoroom has 2 ress nodes (like original ns_hera) but one is not working and obstructed by a piece of metal. This is to help rookie understand this is an important place in the map (for PG for example), but I didn't want a double ress here (or I should have delete Cargo...).



Gameplay :



- removed some ladders and replaces by stairs or blocks. Everything has been tested so that the drifter could sort it out
- Added a small corridor in processing otherwise Ventilation 3-C was a bit too isolated
- blocked Waste near entrance with crates (since they're is no weldable door marine would rush/ARC this hive too fast from Marine Start)
- added an access on Ventilation-3C for the drifter to be able to go up/down
- Alpha some props so the commander has a cleaner view
- Removed the floor door in cargo and as Onos would get stucked and won't be able to go up

- Added armory for Marines at start because it's a hard map for marine I think.


Graphics :

- Entrance & Reception remade a bit (one of my favorite part of the map)
- Reworked some Textures on Data Core Delta
- Added a planet prop in Holoroom
- Waterfall texture replaced with more realistic water texture
- Lots of little stuff......



Optimisation :

- Absolutely no "OcclusionGeometry" was in the map (Crappy FPS you guess...) so I added them. It's still far from perfect. But the map doesn't use much props so the framerate seems ok.
- Remove some point/lines, hope this will help too


Sounds :

- added some ambiant sound, always helps :)


Possible gameplay changes possible (depending on win/lose ratio) :


- Making Data Core Delta defaut hive for alien.
- Remove Cargo RT and put double RT in holoroom
- Remove crates in Marines start, opening it to Cargo


Known problem :

- Still some pathing for Drifter/Mac (fixed)
- Vents doesn't appear in the overview



Overview (updated 10/11/2018) :

l49l3ax7wypn.jpg


Screenshots :

m8xesx6668li.jpg

cgnd7puwzozt.jpg

jy0hth03391p.jpg




I won't improve this version so much since It has been original imported from NS1 trough Blender ( https://www.blender.org/ ). Technicaly, they are tons of duplicate line & point, and lots of points aren't even in the grid, making it very painfull to work on some areas.


I may plan doing a new ns_hera from schratch, or at least a descent Layout (I've drawn a new layout on small tile sheet). Oh by the wait if you know a way to contact Janos & Alibi who started to remade ns_hera (but abandonned) I'm interested.



I know the map isn't perfect, thus I spend a lot of time on it (200 hours I guess ...to be honest I tough I would give up !), but I hope you'll be happy to play a descent version of hera in NS2...!!


Don't hesitate to post constructive feedback here or on the steam workshop page (I don't use discord sorry).



WORKSHOP LINK :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1549261792

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1550262479
Post edited by Xale on
Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
.trixX.
«1

Comments

  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited November 17
    I'll add the following important changelog here :


    Changelog (28/10/2018) :
    - Placed Ventilation 3c a little bit further because ARCs (Thanks The_Welsh_Wizard)
    - Removed Pathing for stairs replacing it by CollisionsGeometry (fixes Drifter & bots issue)
    - Lots of Optimisation !
    - Also Removed a Cargo door by mistake but I guess no one cares

    Changelog (10/11/2018)
    - Vents now appears in Minimap
    - Remove some outdoor section for Minimap (CommanderInvisible)
    - Added CommanderInvisible for some brushes

    Optimisations :

    - Removed unused vertice/faces/lines
    - Remove some Entities
    - Fixed a Hole in Cargo
    - added some Oclussion Geometry

    Changelog (17/11/2018)
    - Removed Maintenance Corridor RT (11 RT is said to be too much)
    - Added some various cosmetic & Crates for gameplay
    - Little Optimisation

    - Made Minimap is more accurate Since Cargo is not accessible from Marine Start (for now at least)

    - Added music "Astral Signs (Instrumental Version)" in Ready-Room (composed by myself). Check www.spiralstatic.eu for more

    Need Help
    - I'm having an issue with the light_spot in Vent Cavity that appears plain (This only happens in DX11)
    - I have lights in Maintenance Corridor that I want to be socketed only by power_point, but they are always lit. The parameter "Ignore Power Point" is set to False... :|



    Post edited by Xale on
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    So... you took the NS1 hera and edited it or you took the DMD hera and edited it?
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    I took the DMD hera and edited it. I ask Rusty before don't worry :smiley:
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • RustyRusty Canada Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185850Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver Posts: 64 Advanced user
    It's great to see this map being worked on more :) It's a good map. It was originally setup for Classic mod and needed some restructuring for NS2 style gameplay. It was left uncompleted and I know the amount of work that needed to go into it and am grateful for your time spent on it Xale! I can't wait to try it out :smiley: Thanks Xale!
    DiamondGamers.net
    A Rich Gaming Experience.
    Xale
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    I think this map needs more adjustments to NS2. First of all: Get rid of that giant outside area on the minimap. There is no reason fot it to be rendered. Then, remove the starting armory. This messes with the game balance.

    There are also some layout issues. Marines should not be able to immediately reach the center of the map. There seems to be overconnectivity issues in some areas and also LOS issues. It seems there are unfair ARCing spots for Data Core and Ventilation. The way Archiving is connected to only one other room will lead to problems. The way Ventilation is connected also seems problematic. There is a general lack of vents in this map.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    I think this map needs more adjustments to NS2. First of all: Get rid of that giant outside area on the minimap. There is no reason fot it to be rendered.

    Perhaps I should change my mini-map extent you mean ?
    Then, remove the starting armory. This messes with the game balance.

    This is more a personal feeling about NS2 in general. Amonst all, marines have 2 big issue : if they start with 1 IP, they are fucked : a 2nd IP cost Waaaaaay too much. 2nd issue is RT that cost 10 in marine, they cost 8 in aliens. Knowing hera for a long time, this has always been seen as an alien-favourite map even in the well balanced NS3.2.

    Thus, the armory starts unbuild.
    There are also some layout issues. Marines should not be able to immediately reach the center of the map.

    They don't. I have blocked the path with crates (you didn't launch the map did you ? :disappointed: à. I remembered BeigeAlert message : "2 exits are enough, it's not about how marine can go out it's about how alien can go in"

    There seems to be overconnectivity issues in some areas and also LOS issues.

    Not sure by what you mean by LOS ?
    It seems there are unfair ARCing spots for Data Core and Ventilation.
    I don't think for Datacore because theyre is different level on processing (but will test)

    You're right I should test for Ventilation
    The way Archiving is connected to only one other room will lead to problems. The way Ventilation is connected also seems problematic. There is a general lack of vents in this map.

    Wow I just realised they don't appear in the overview. If someone has tip to get them appear, give me some tip or links please !


    Here is the vent corrected overview (blue means it's blocked) :


    ohurd00f9d80.jpg



    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    @Xale

    Here are a few little tips based on this forum thread so far :)

    1. LoS means "Line of sight"

    2. To add vents to a map, add the props + geo used to a layer called "Vents" (no quotes)

    3. I would seriously suggest you don't have any structures for either team at the start of a round that aren't typically in all the other maps, regardless of your beliefs about balance, it will create inconsistency between maps and make the game as a whole more difficult to learn for newer players.

    4. If you don't want something to appear on the minimap, add the geo to a group called "CommanderInvisible" (no quotes) and select the props and set the value of commander alpha to 0.

    (Note, groups and layers are different things and perform different functions.)

    Welcome to the mapping community, its great to have more new faces around!
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    Oh yea, sorry I should have explained things better.

    As Kash says: Everything inside of minimap extends is rendered for the minimap. If you want things to not appear on the minimap, you place the geo in the CommanderInvisible group and put commander alpha value to 0 on props. If something is outside of the playable area nad just there for visuals, it should not be seen on the minimap because it is an unneccessary cluttering of the view. It is also something the commander does not need to be able to see.

    And yea, there must be some consistency between maps in general. Personal opinions on balance should not affect the map. Besides that, balance changes often, and you want your map to be playable in NS2 in a general sense, not only for this specific build.

    I am sorry, I didn't launch the map yet, I gave feedback based only of the minimap you show. I will take a run around on the map as soon as I can.
    On the map it looks like the pathway from Marine Start to the center is not blocked. If it is, I hope it also blocked for aliens. Because inaccessible vents leading into marine start, especially if marines need such a long way to get to the other side, is frustrating and should be avoided.
    Either way, it is either a vent and should be marked as that, or it is a dead end and those should be avoided in general too.

    I will test the ARCing spot in Processing. But honestly I can't see how this could be fair with this layout.

    My feeling is, this map looks a bit too much NS1, and not enough NS2.

    I think that vents and pathing geo are layers instead of groups is very weird and can only be confusing for new mappers.
    But yea, everythign in the layer called Vent will render in those orange vent colors on the minimap. If you want a vent to be in addition commander invisible however, you need to put it into a group (!) CommanderInvisibleVents.

    I am glad too see new mappers aswell. Looking forward playing this map. Make sure it is play ready so it can be played at SCC. I also highly recommend you join SCC on Discord, it is much easier and faster to get assistance in mapping there.

    Oh and a general advice: There are two very helpful tools in the mapping editor under the Entitiy category:
    arc_range_circle will show the exact range of an ARC.
    relevancy_range_circle will show you the exact range of LOS, meaning, how far things get rendered. You probably know how players disappear in North Tunnels on Tram if you stand in South Tunnels because they are too far away. This should be avoided and that circle entity helps you to see in the editor how far the relevancy distance is.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Your mod is not correctly setup. You should use LaunchPad for it. Start LaunchPad and press New. Then name your mod (I suggest ns2_hera), check "Create from a basic template" -> This will setup the mod folder correctly for you. If you have done that, press on the source folder icon in LaunchPad, then you will find more folders there. One of them is mapsrc. As long as you don't have any custom assets, this is the only folder you need. Inside of that mapsrc folder, place your level file. It should look like this: [...]ns2_hera/source/mapsrc/ns2_hera.level. This is the one you should work with. If you want to publish your map in the workshop, click on builder in LaunchPad and let it build, it will automatically create the proper output folder for you. Then, just hit publish and it will upload your mod correctly to the workshop.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    Kasharic wrote: »
    @Xale

    Here are a few little tips based on this forum thread so far :)

    1. LoS means "Line of sight"

    Yeah I figured this but not sure how it applies in NS2...!
    3. To add vents to a map, add the props + geo used to a layer called "Vents" (no quotes)

    I already have that... strange...
    4. I would seriously suggest you don't have any structures for either team at the start of a round that aren't typically in all the other maps, regardless of your beliefs about balance, it will create inconsistency between maps and make the game as a whole more difficult to learn for newer players.

    I understand but hera is very special. Thus it's very easy to edit for further version.

    4. If you don't want something to appear on the minimap, add the geo to a group called "CommanderInvisible" (no quotes) and select the props and set the value of commander alpha to 0.
    5. (Note, groups and layers are different things and perform different functions.)

    Ok not sure what I don't want on the minimap. Maybe outside i'd give a try


    Welcome to the mapping community, its great to have more new faces around!

    Thanks !

    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    Oh yea, sorry I should have explained things better.

    As Kash says: Everything inside of minimap extends is rendered for the minimap. If you want things to not appear on the minimap, you place the geo in the CommanderInvisible group and put commander alpha value to 0 on props. If something is outside of the playable area nad just there for visuals, it should not be seen on the minimap because it is an unneccessary cluttering of the view. It is also something the commander does not need to be able to see.

    For the moment it seems ok
    And yea, there must be some consistency between maps in general. Personal opinions on balance should not affect the map. Besides that, balance changes often, and you want your map to be playable in NS2 in a general sense, not only for this specific build.

    Yeah I totally got your point, but I'm really fed up and frustrated with game balance. I always feel playing "hard" when playing marines...

    I am sorry, I didn't launch the map yet, I gave feedback based only of the minimap you show. I will take a run around on the map as soon as I can.
    On the map it looks like the pathway from Marine Start to the center is not blocked. If it is, I hope it also blocked for aliens. Because inaccessible vents leading into marine start, especially if marines need such a long way to get to the other side, is frustrating and should be avoided.
    Either way, it is either a vent and should be marked as that, or it is a dead end and those should be avoided in general too.

    I blocked a door with crates that's why. Props are easy to add/remove.

    I will test the ARCing spot in Processing. But honestly I can't see how this could be fair with this layout.

    Well I tryed, it arcs. But I think "it's in the game". Central hive has an impressive avantage in general, especially if it's the first hive. so it's not unfair to nerf it a bit. Arcs cost much and processing is hard to keep for marine I think. So it's fair.


    (For Ventilation you were right, I moved the hive a bit !)

    My feeling is, this map looks a bit too much NS1, and not enough NS2.

    ns_veil too :smile:
    I think that vents and pathing geo are layers instead of groups is very weird and can only be confusing for new mappers.
    But yea, everythign in the layer called Vent will render in those orange vent colors on the minimap. If you want a vent to be in addition commander invisible however, you need to put it into a group (!) CommanderInvisibleVents.

    mm I got to dig that. My Vents are already in a "Vents" Group :/
    I am glad too see new mappers aswell. Looking forward playing this map. Make sure it is play ready so it can be played at SCC. I also highly recommend you join SCC on Discord, it is much easier and faster to get assistance in mapping there.

    I already tryed Discord and failed, really not used to it.

    Oh and a general advice: There are two very helpful tools in the mapping editor under the Entitiy category:
    arc_range_circle will show the exact range of an ARC.
    relevancy_range_circle will show you the exact range of LOS, meaning, how far things get rendered. You probably know how players disappear in North Tunnels on Tram if you stand in South Tunnels because they are too far away. This should be avoided and that circle entity helps you to see in the editor how far the relevancy distance is.

    Yeah I found arc_range_circle !

    I think my LOS is ok on the map. The rooms aren't big.
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Xale wrote: »
    Kasharic wrote: »
    @Xale

    Here are a few little tips based on this forum thread so far :)

    1. LoS means "Line of sight"

    Yeah I figured this but not sure how it applies in NS2...!
    In this scenario I mean, because this is an asymmetrical game (ranged versus melee race), it is generally bad for gameplay if LOS is too large, which basically means something like 1) Too empty / big rooms 2) Too long corridors / not enough cover for the length.
    3. To add vents to a map, add the props + geo used to a layer called "Vents" (no quotes)

    I already have that... strange...
    Did you build the map using builder?
    4. If you don't want something to appear on the minimap, add the geo to a group called "CommanderInvisible" (no quotes) and select the props and set the value of commander alpha to 0.
    5. (Note, groups and layers are different things and perform different functions.)

    Ok not sure what I don't want on the minimap. Maybe outside i'd give a try
    You don't want anything on the minimap that isn't in the playable area for example. The complete outside area shouldn't be on the minimap.


  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    Your mod is not correctly setup. You should use LaunchPad for it. Start LaunchPad and press New. Then name your mod (I suggest ns2_hera), check "Create from a basic template" -> This will setup the mod folder correctly for you. If you have done that, press on the source folder icon in LaunchPad, then you will find more folders there. One of them is mapsrc. As long as you don't have any custom assets, this is the only folder you need. Inside of that mapsrc folder, place your level file. It should look like this: [...]ns2_hera/source/mapsrc/ns2_hera.level. This is the one you should work with. If you want to publish your map in the workshop, click on builder in LaunchPad and let it build, it will automatically create the proper output folder for you. Then, just hit publish and it will upload your mod correctly to the workshop.

    Ok I'll try that now !
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    h7e9oozbhbqt.png

    Do I need to check something here ?
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    No, that is just for tagging in the workshop. The important thing is to check the template thing so you get all folders in place.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    OK I have to recreate everything so it created a new Object in Worshop instead of updating it... :neutral:


    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1550262479



    EDIT :


    Changelog :
    - Placed Ventilation 3c a little bit further because ARCs
    - Removed Pathing for stairs replacing it by CollisionsGeometry (fixes Drifter & bots issue)
    - Lots of Optimisation !

    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    What is the new mod id? I still have problems loading the map.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    Not sure

    is there another way to get the ModID than going to this folder ?
    C:\Users\XXXX\AppData\Roaming\Natural Selection 2\Workshop

    Ok it's m5c6720cf
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    I have no idea. Join Discord ;)
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    I have no idea. Join Discord ;)

    I'm on it what's your Name on discord ?



    EDIT :


    I removed those lua line on gamesetup :
    <game>
        <name>ns2</name>
        <description>ns2_hera2018</description>
    [b]    <client>lua/ModClient.lua</client>
        <predict>lua/ModPredict.lua</predict>
        <server>lua/ModServer.lua</server>
        <loading>lua/ModLoading.lua</loading>[/b]
    </game>
    

    ... and it works...!!! what a surprise... :neutral:
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    oh yea just remove the game setup file, sorry lol I forgot it creates that. There shouldn't be anything else in the source folder than your map at this point. In your ns2_hera2018 folder there should not be anything else than the source and output folder, the mod.settings and the preview.jpg. You can replace that preview image with another one if you want your workshop image changed.

    https://discord.gg/RSyVNu Join here
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 28
    oh yea just remove the game setup file, sorry lol I forgot it creates that. There shouldn't be anything else in the source folder than your map at this point. In your ns2_hera2018 folder there should not be anything else than the source and output folder, the mod.settings and the preview.jpg. You can replace that preview image with another one if you want your workshop image changed.

    https://discord.gg/RSyVNu Join here

    ok

    I can't see any preview.jpg



    EDIT : This is ok :) Beautiful 512*512 image now :D



    EDIT2 : So so far everything is fine except that Vents doesn't appears on minimap :neutral: thus I think everything is ok :smile:


    This is a Vent near Archiving :

    zvaki3pe3k2p.png

    n1ghsbxpwead.png
    Post edited by Xale on
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 31
    Don't hesitate to download the map on the workshop, try it with bots, tell me your feeling and Ideas.

    .. and if your a mapper to tell me what's wrong with those vents... -_-


    Also tell me about performance. I may change layout a bit to physically separate Cargo from Marine Start, altough you can't access it because the door is blocked by crates. This would allow better understand of the layout and i'll be able to add a big occlusiongeometry.
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,702 Advanced user
    I just checked the map, because of your vent issue.
    I suspect it happens, because you also have a "vent" layer.
    Try this:
    Mark the vent layer so you select all the parts in it. Then uncheck the vent layer they are in. Then uncheck and recheck the Vents layer, so the vent-geo is only in that layer!
    Do the same for the other vent layer. After the vent layers are empty and everything is only in Vents, delete the two vent layers.


  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    I think the first thing to do should be improving the general layout and the room layouts before tackling smaller problems. The map needs more straightlined connections between rooms.

    The whole central and northern area is basically a mess. There are far too many connections. Examples: Northern Corridor to Hologram has 2 connections. Hologram to Processing has 2 connections. The long hallway between Maintenance, Cargo Storage and Processing is too narrow, too long and connects too many things. Ventilation to Maintenance is a maze with too many routes to count. The map generally feels very "compressed" on the North side. Because of the low distance between Ventilation and Delta you put the connections between them over Processing which looks like a band aid and creates a lot of problems. Archieving is not properly integrated into the map. It has 3 seperate entrances which are all next to each other and lead outside of the map. Cargo Storage has also a bad integration. Aside from that long hallway (which is basically a giant 180° turn you take if you use that from Cargo) it is basically a giant dead end.

    The RT placement is a bit weird. There is too much value in holding the center of the map with 3 RTs. The RTs on the North side also seem to be much closer to each other than on the South side. Also the marine naturals are very inconsistent to each other because one is a lot closer than the other.

    In terms of room layout, there are often issues with too much level over level. Not only is it bad for commanders, it is also bad for gameplay. Processing is a maze with no clear path and no clear ways between the different height levels which are too many anyway. The room between Marine Start and Maintenance Corridor has waaaaaaay too much verticality and that should be avoided, it plays just frustratingly and it is much faster going down than going up.
    Do you consider this map greybox? Because there are a lot of issues with too empty rooms and very simplistic geo, which is kinda expected in a greybox map.
    Northern Corridor also should be some kind of room because right now it is a narrow carridor which doesn't offer good gameplay around RTs. The reason of existance for corridors is more to connect between rooms.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited October 31
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    I just checked the map, because of your vent issue.
    I suspect it happens, because you also have a "vent" layer.
    Try this:
    Mark the vent layer so you select all the parts in it. Then uncheck the vent layer they are in. Then uncheck and recheck the Vents layer, so the vent-geo is only in that layer!
    Do the same for the other vent layer. After the vent layers are empty and everything is only in Vents, delete the two vent layers.

    Ok will do !

    I think the first thing to do should be improving the general layout and the room layouts before tackling smaller problems. The map needs more straightlined connections between rooms.

    I think you didn't get the point of ns2_hera2018 :) It's basically a dirty port of ns2_hera from NS1 (v3.2 to be precise), because people like me & others absolutely loved this map ! I started the rework from NS2_hera from Rusty wich had LUA code with NS1 gameplay (I didn't want to work for something from scratch has this point because I didn't have enough skill). I removed all lua stuff and added NS2 gameplay mecanics, and fixed a lots of stuffs.


    So ns2_hera2018 has two main goals :
    - bringing a playable ns_hera to NS2
    - testing the vanilla gameplay of this map for maybe a later ns_hera build from scratch (not necessarly by me)



    So I won't improve MUCH the layout in this version (the geometry is very messy). On all that you say, I tend to agree on some points, and to disagree on other. Altough your comments are interesting, I think you are transposing too much the "what works on official map" & "what should be done" to this map. It's always interesting to have new layout and stuff. As I said, as long as you don't make stupid stuff like putting all 3 hives in the same room, or don't separate them with a least 1 RT, it's ok. Thus, it's an NS1 map, so the layout should be -somewhat- ok for NS2 (= it's not a CS map transposed to NS2 for example :lol: )


    The whole central and northern area is basically a mess.

    Welcome to Hera :smile:

    There are far too many connections. Examples: Northern Corridor to Hologram has 2 connections.

    One is up, it used to be some kind of vent
    Hologram to Processing has 2 connections. The long hallway between Maintenance, Cargo Storage and Processing is too narrow, too long and connects too many things. Ventilation to Maintenance is a maze with too many routes to count.

    Welcome to hera² :wink:
    The map generally feels very "compressed" on the North side. Because of the low distance between Ventilation and Delta you put the connections between them over Processing which looks like a band aid and creates a lot of problems.

    The compression is due to the fact NS1 map couldn't have been larger because of the HL1 engine. Yeah that connection is kind of "band aid" but no choice, thus it give an interesting layout.
    Archieving is not properly integrated into the map. It has 3 seperate entrances which are all next to each other and lead outside of the map.

    Yeah I tend to agree. Note : There use to be a weldable door between Entrance & Reception and Archiving
    Cargo Storage has also a bad integration. Aside from that long hallway (which is basically a giant 180° turn you take if you use that from Cargo) it is basically a giant dead end.

    Totally Agree, not sure what to do with this part of the map. Cargo used to have a Weldable door to Entrance & Reception.
    The RT placement is a bit weird. There is too much value in holding the center of the map with 3 RTs.

    I don't think so. You won't hold these 3 RTS. I think the best PG placement are Holoroom & that place where you could siege Ventilation before correction (pretty sure it use to have a specific name, I need to check this..!). Of course it's always interesting to have a PG in the center of the map for that reason :blush:
    The RTs on the North side also seem to be much closer to each other than on the South side. Also the marine naturals are very inconsistent to each other because one is a lot closer than the other.

    Again it's an Hera thing. If I remember well, Maintenance Corridor use to have an RT, then was removed in NS2.0 due to cargo storage beeing directly accessible. I decided to put it again, because I blocked again the way to Cargo storage. It's true that it's closer from Entrance & Reception, maybe I should have rework the giant room with stairs here. BUT from a different perspective, Maintenance Corridor has very poor light, giving an advantage for aliens.
    In terms of room layout, there are often issues with too much level over level. Not only is it bad for commanders, it is also bad for gameplay. Processing is a maze with no clear path and no clear ways between the different height levels which are too many anyway. The room between Marine Start and Maintenance Corridor has waaaaaaay too much verticality and that should be avoided, it plays just frustratingly and it is much faster going down than going up.

    Yeah of course I noticed this map has too much up and down. Most of remake (like Ns_nothing or ns_origin) have smaller up/down.
    Do you consider this map greybox? Because there are a lot of issues with too empty rooms and very simplistic geo, which is kinda expected in a greybox map.
    Northern Corridor also should be some kind of room because right now it is a narrow carridor which doesn't offer good gameplay around RTs. The reason of existance for corridors is more to connect between rooms.



    So as you understood, they're has never really been a "greybox" ns2_hera2018. FYI I Started a build from skratch an ns2_hera2019 wich is greyboxed :smiley: I'd really like to give an awesome hera but I'm not sur I have the motivation & time. Also I have a big health problem with my right arms. I really should stop mapping, it's really not good for my health. But I like it so much... :neutral:


    If you want you can draw a layout on small tiles paper. I've done that, will post this later I guess.
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    Hey guys !


    I finally figure it out. There was another Layer called "Marine corri smthing" that took the Vents functions of the overview (that's why I had some Yellow in maintenance Corridor". I guess it's a SPARK bug, so I removed that layer and also all Vent/Vents layer close editor and create a new Vents layer = now it work !!

    Here is the new layout :

    l49l3ax7wypn.jpg


    Changelog
    - Vents now appears in Minimap
    - Remove some outdoor section for Minimap (CommanderInvisible)
    - Added CommanderInvisible for some brushes

    Optimisations :

    - Removed unused vertice/fac/lines
    - Remove some Entities
    - Fixed a Hole in Cargo
    - added some Oclussion Geometry

    Don't hesitate to give me feedback.

    By the way it seems I have a Light_spot problem in vent_cavity. I'm pretty sure it's a DX11 problem because it was working well when I had the game in DX9
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
    .trixX.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited November 17
    Small update + Youtube video today :

    - Removed Maintenance Corridor RT (11 RT is said to be too much)
    - Added some various cosmetic & Crates for gameplay
    - Little Optimisation

    - Made Minimap is more accurate Since Cargo is not accessible from Marine Start (for now at least)

    - Added music "Astral Signs (Instrumental Version)" in Ready-Room (composed by myself). Check www.spiralstatic.eu for more

    yho4r211caay.jpg



    https://youtu.be/BQ43JFJy1l8



    I need help to resolve this :
    I have lights in Maintenance Corridor that I want to be socketed only by power_point, but they are always lit. The parameter "Ignore Power Point" is set to False... :|
    Post edited by Xale on
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
    .trixX.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 318 Advanced user
    I have lights in Maintenance Corridor that I want to be socketed only by power_point, but they are always lit. The parameter "Ignore Power Point" is set to False... :|

    Just make sure the lights are within the location entity :smile:
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 126 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    I have lights in Maintenance Corridor that I want to be socketed only by power_point, but they are always lit. The parameter "Ignore Power Point" is set to False... :|

    Just make sure the lights are within the location entity :smile:

    they are :| :|
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Re-Worked ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Released : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
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