As per usal, a topic like this comes down to 2 factions, well i guess you could say 3. Those who say there are cheats, those who say no (becuase i can do that), and finally, those who pick the argument apart.
Fact of the matter is, there are cheaters. One would be naive to think that there are no cheaters in the game. Yet one would also be naive to think that when someone kills oyu, they must be cheating. Yet that is how it goes.
More then likely, so called persons are not using a real cheat, but rather just a modification of there. Like no muzzle flash. Many have said that this does not distract them, but to me, on my 1024 res, it takes up a good part of the crosshair, and if a skulk goes into the flash, you might as well stop firing so you can see him again. So thoe kind of advantages, can really help.
Its just a balance of things. When you see a guy, right from the begganing of a new game, pick skulks off the wall in a dark corner with a small burst, and then run into the hive, and consequnetly kill al lwho come to oppose him, over and over, hes not playing normal. Unfortunly for many, i have noticed alot of clan members once again becoming top dogs. Not really becuase of skill, but becuase they decided to mess with there NS files.
Theres no end to this argument, and one shouldn;t try to finish it.
Just acknowledge that there are cheaters, and you are going to play with them, wether it be in a public server, or a clan match, they will always be there.
Yo, dudes, try this one! I just gonned the ban ip treatement at www.sniperlust.com for my mad hacks.... as a SKULK!! ROFL.
What kind of crack are those people on? Do they really think I got an aimbot on a zero-range bite weapon? Or maybe they think that 3 marines (I ate 3 marines at a time maybe 3 times, and racked up something like 18 kills in 10 minutes or so of gameplay), should be able to take out one skulk? True, 3 talented marines should be able too... but these guys weren't exactly aiming godlike, and they were often distracted by either building stuff, or the fact that I jump like mad from side to side when I attack (without warning of course). Also, I had the Carapace upgrade after a few minutes of game time.
I mean, Skulking is an art! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Jump from side to side when attacking (only very talented marines can kill you if you do this) <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> Turrets can't shoot a rapidly moving target very well. Also, they can't shoot a target hidden behind a Turret Factory, Resource Collector, another Turret, a small bump in the map, whatever. Use this to your advantage always. And of course, if you eat the Turret Factory, the turrets are all de-activated. Chomp fest! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> If you get dammaged, even for 20 hp and 10 armour, it's almost always worth running away to get healed, then comming back, since: 1) Spawn time is really slow. 2) You save two credits and evolving time if you had an upgrade. 3) You look way l33ter if you have lots of frags but few deaths <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Lastly, if you want to avoid being Admin Ban bait, which will only be an issue for the somewhat skilled vs the very n00bish, jump all over the marines and fire your parasite gun reapetedly. The parasites will enfuriate them without doing more than tickle damage, and give them an opportunity for them to lay into you with their 50 bullet clips.
Cheating and hacking is something that we have to grudgingly tolerate. There are some of us who work to fight the cheaters with anti-hacking software, but the cheaters will always find a way around the programs. Nothing's infallible. I think the best way of getting the cheaters out of your servers is to simply ban them. If you want to get a bit extreme, you might want to create a blacklist of cheaters that server admins have banned. The only problem is we might be banning people who don't cheat while those who do lurk in our midst...
I think the main concrete thing we could lobby for would be spectator modes that show the world from the observed player's point of view with crosshair.
How about we all chip in and hire hitmen for all confirmed cheaters? I suppose we could get away with not even doing a propper hit just breaking afew things then after news gets around no more cheaters..
<!--QuoteBegin--NinjaBurger+Dec 11 2002, 01:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NinjaBurger @ Dec 11 2002, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I probably should have been more clear in my original post.
I wasn't saying "Hey, guys, there are people CHEATING in this game. Gasp." Everyone knows cheating goes on. I'm not naive.
My point was this:
I've been playing NS for about a month now. And through that time, I and all the other newbies had a learning curve, and we got better, and games got better. And now I can see who the new newbies are, and can easily see how I made the same mistakes, and can watch them learn and get better, progressively.
But suddenly within the past week or so, there's a new class of player out there who is UBER-LEET and can do things the other 99% of the players do not do. The guy who can seemingly see you around a wall, hit you on his first try, every time, and can take down a room full of skulks without getting scratched.
Now, I grant you, there are certainly those players who are THAT GOOD and can pull off amazing feats. I'd love to become one of them. But it just seems unlikely that there are that many people with superhuman reflexes and X-ray vision out there.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these people are really a new breed of human who can track five moving targets and cap them all without taking a scratch. I just have my doubts.
My point, then, was to see if others noticed the same thing, particularly in the last week or so. Of 30 or so posts, maybe 2 or 3 agreed, and the vast majority said I should shut up. So I'll shut up. Maybe there's nothing going on here. And maybe even if there is, it's not worth talking about.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's a logical explination for that:
The UBER-LEET gamers play religiously for about 12 hours a day.
Practice makes perfect. Instead of trying to blame cheats or whatnot, try to get better with your skills and defeat those UBER-LEET players.
I've yet to encounter anyone cheating (aimbot/wallhack) in any of the NS games I've been in. I've been called a cheater a few times (ok, more then a few), which is just sad.
Video games are just like any other game on the planet. You have your Kobe Bryants, and then you have your (insert some crappy NBA player's name here). Does Kobe hack because he gets more points then Joe Shmoe? No, he's just better. People are just better at certain things then others. Calling people hackers is just paranoia, and for the most part, an attempt at self gratification (ie: trying to make yourself feel better... "I'M THE BEST NON-HACKER ALIVE!!!!!! ANYONE WHO KILLS ME HACKS!!!!").
An unupgraded skulk is about the easiest thing to kill in any game I've ever played. The reasons? a) 9 bullets. ONLY 9 BULLETS. Nuff said. b) They make noise WHENEVER they move. (Walking, running, jumping, crouching.. etc) c) They're not overly fast. (ie: quite easy to keep your xhairs on them, jumping about hardly makes a difference)
Now, if you throw lvl3 Carapace or Celerity on a skulk, it gets a ton harder.
I think the #1 thing which SHOULD be changed to help skulks out... NO NOISE WHEN THEY WALK. It's hard enough that a skulk has to deal with motion tracking, at least give them the chance to get into a hiding spot silently.
<!--QuoteBegin--romano+Dec 15 2002, 06:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (romano @ Dec 15 2002, 06:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've yet to encounter anyone cheating (aimbot/wallhack) in any of the NS games I've been in. I've been called a cheater a few times (ok, more then a few), which is just sad.
Video games are just like any other game on the planet. You have your Kobe Bryants, and then you have your (insert some crappy NBA player's name here). Does Kobe hack because he gets more points then Joe Shmoe? No, he's just better. People are just better at certain things then others. Calling people hackers is just paranoia, and for the most part, an attempt at self gratification (ie: trying to make yourself feel better... "I'M THE BEST NON-HACKER ALIVE!!!!!! ANYONE WHO KILLS ME HACKS!!!!").
An unupgraded skulk is about the easiest thing to kill in any game I've ever played. The reasons? a) 9 bullets. ONLY 9 BULLETS. Nuff said. b) They make noise WHENEVER they move. (Walking, running, jumping, crouching.. etc) c) They're not overly fast. (ie: quite easy to keep your xhairs on them, jumping about hardly makes a difference)
Now, if you throw lvl3 Carapace or Celerity on a skulk, it gets a ton harder.
I think the #1 thing which SHOULD be changed to help skulks out... NO NOISE WHEN THEY WALK. It's hard enough that a skulk has to deal with motion tracking, at least give them the chance to get into a hiding spot silently.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's why I've put my suspicions to the test. I think everyone should realize that no matter how good you are, there are players better than you are.
Having said that, I've done some calculations. In the time it takes to unload 6 rounds, the gunfire sound goes off about 4 times. Now that's roughly once per two rounds. The LMG of the person that I had suspicions about went of <u>once</u>. This was after I was already in mid-air. I dropped *snaps fingers* dead.
Like I said, as an alien, I'm used to getting blasted here and there. But there are situations in which a simple "well he's just better than you are" doesn't add up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NinjaBurger Posted: Dec 11 2002, 12:16 AM
Drone
Group: Members Posts: 23 Member No.: 9931 Joined: 25-November 02
Since I have no specific proof of anything, I wouldn't dream of pointing out specific names and incidents.
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no hacking going on in NS, people are just becoming better players. If you think someone is wallhacking, its motion tracking trust me. If you think a person has 'aimbot', its either you have low hp, they upgraded weapons (arms lab), or that person plays very well. You must also take into consideration that most people get Very Low fps in NS. I'am happy to say that I get a constant 99fps in all HL mods (geforce4ti4600 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->). I would have to say that it is very easy for me to take down skulks in the beggining of the game. I would also have to say that a 1337 skulk will come by and start bobing and weaving towards (makes it harder for me to hit) and bites my face open. I seriously doubt that they're are hacks in NS, most of these people complaing probably suck so bad, I've met a few of these people ingame. I've been called a h4x0r several times in NS, please you n00bs get some skill you go up against me, then call me a h4x0r.
You would have to be very naive to think that there are absolutely no cheaters in NS. Someone that uses a wallhack could always say that they saw their enemy on motion tracking or hive sight, these features in NS provides more of an cover up for the hacks and doesn't absolutely mean 100% of NS players are not cheaters. As for aimbots, I think something like 0GC would work for all mods, since all these mods (CS, NS, etc) are all running off the half life engine, and the cheats were made for the half life engine, and are not a specific mod exploit.
I was wondering if I was the only one who'd noticed this, Ninja. (And yes, your website rocks.)
I don't know if I agree with the invulnerable skulk theory - I know people personally who can do horrible things to turrets with circle-strafing, and I myself am a big fan of the hiding-behind-a-building theory.
There do exist marines, though, who open fire the very millisecond you enter the room, hit you with pinpoint accuracy, and then instantly switch to hit your buddy who's coming in from another angle.
Skulks aren't dying quicker because the marines have "upgrade" hacks, they're dying because every stinking bullet hits. For most normal players, a quickly-moving skulk is tough to hit if it surprises you - you shoot in its general direction, and some percentage of the bullets hit. The game is designed and balanced with this in mind. An aimbot, though, is untroubled by the speed of its target, and NS's guns are pinpoint-accurate compared to CS's. Instant skulk death.
I imagine wallhacks would also be handy for the marines if it's still the very start of the game and motion isn't up yet, since in the early game the aliens depend so much on stealth.
Wallhack+aimbot+skulks = quick ownage of aliens. And I've played more than a few games in which every skulk that sees a marine dies instantly. My response is typically to switch servers, since this sort of thing is still blessedly rare, and as far as I can tell the cheaters clump together.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
ok, those who think cheats don't exist, I am sorry you are wrong, most cheats work on all mods now (sad)
however here are a few things (I have said this like 5 times in this thread)
1) YOU CANT CHANGE WEAPON DMG!!! So you can't be 'invulnerable' you cant power up a gun, you cant do any of these things thus don't even bring em up
2) RP hacks are probably imposible (not positive b/c I don't know exactly how they are handled but I have a good idea) RPs are RPOBABLY done server side, thus they can not be 'hacked', what one person described sounded like sv_cheats being on, but I sorta don't think so
look, basicaly I am saying that some things are server side and thus can NOT be hacked, nufsaid
Don't really want to prolong this thread any longer but...
There is very little that can be done to make the game fun if you are playing with jerks. Obviously, cheats should be stopped whereever possible, but the if someone's cheating, just go to a different server, tell teh admin, whatever. Unless it gets to the stage where every server is filled with cheats, its not that much of a problem.
I would believe an aimbot could be at work. I have seen some marines who do an incredibly good job of gunning down skulks to the extent where they can, for example, take down three skulks with one clip of their unupgraded LMG in less than 3 seconds. Seems just a little better than humanly possible.
Besides that, not too worried about cheats. Wallhack? Eh, we all get a way to see through walls eventually. Thanks to revisions in half-life's code, just about everything else would have to be serverside, and if the server admin is cheating your hosed regardless.
I'm more worried about cheesy tactics. Jetpacking on top of the hive and being force fed medpacks while you finish off the hive partially protected by it's own hitboxes, that's cheap. Siege cannon is cheese for many reasons, and I'll be glad when it's been nerfed in 1.04. Placing offencive towers under the elevator is cheap. Placing mines on the rotating elevator is cheap. Ect.
I've seen hacks used in CS many many times, and rarely are they ever caught by the Anti Cheat program. The only true security is had when an admin or multiple players actively spec the suspected cheater. It can work ok in CS because the murdered can watch him in First Person the rest of the round. In NS, however, people can not spec the other team (for good reason) nor can they view in first person. At least in all the servers I played on there was only third person available.
I don't know if this would be feasible with server memory etc, since I'm not a professional programmer, but I think the best remedy would be showing the recently deceased a 15-20 second instant replay of their death from their killer's first person view. This way, if a person is truely cheating, each person he haxors would become another vote to kick him off the server.
<!--QuoteBegin--NinjaBurger+Dec 11 2002, 12:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NinjaBurger @ Dec 11 2002, 12:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since I have no specific proof of anything, I wouldn't dream of pointing out specific names and incidents.
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If there ARE any cheaters, I hope measures will be taken against them in the shortest time lapse possible. Earlier, I got wrongfully accused of aimbotting because I kept killing fades at short range with an LMG clip ('Never missing' they said).. Which ended up in many tries to get me kicked. I hope one day, games (multiplayer ones, anyway) will be entirely software-cheat free so the innocent doesn't pay for the guilty's crimes.
well to be honest..maybe we all learned how to play? it happened to me...i was just a normal n00b...firing round after round at a skulk screaming...only to get chomped.
Then one day, i suddenly managed to kill about five skulks in under five minutes, (they just ran to the cc...and i leaped out of their way and killed them, they just kept repeating this method...they were dumb.)
and my confidence over came me. I learned to fire in short bursts, strafe and now i find skulk killing is easy, unless they have become veterans..what i am saying is, there are people out there who will always be god-like, maybe because of their pings...or maybe because they are paraniod and do in-fact look up from time to time.
Just a quick note. Even with a aimbot it is impossible to get 100% accuracy with lmg or most of the marine weapons. The cone of fire malarky is all sorted out server side. The pistol is 100% accurate, and I beleive it fires as fast you click - so an aimbot with that would possibly explain seeming insta-kills. The main issue with aimbots however, is it is impossible to hide from a player withan aimbot, since it looks in all directions all the time. Meh, this is topic has gone on too long, yet I keep on posting on it. Sorry.
The only thing I've seen that looked like cheating was when the aliens had one hive, and a skulk used Xenocide... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ...
It is not a big deal that the count of cheaters is rising. It is the same with other HL mods. And the VAC wont help much, coz the cheats are updated more frequently.
So relax and if you find something abnormal on the server simply leave it.
The reason for that is because I first played gorge and barely saw combat. Those marines attacked me in the early game ended up being killed by either a skulk or one of my defense chambers.
In the late game as we rushed the base I contineously used spore cloud on the Marines Spawn. Immediatly as they popped up they were dead.
Not to mention how **obscenity** they were about this.
It really isn't that hard to kill skulks esp since their isn't much in the way of cover or hiding spots on most maps. Their isn't even the random crate in the hallway thing going on. w/o upgrades I feel like I screwed up, in most cases, if I dont kill at least 3 skulks (2 from the lmg 1 from the pistol) coming at me in a group. Jumping around and circle strafing keeps the vast majority of skulks that manage to close on you biting the air in frustration. Keeping a fade centered in your crosshair is another easy thing to do, and is a quick way to get people screaming hacks!! h4x0r! esp if your using a hmg/jetpack combo. When you've got regen and cloaking you make alot of noise mmmm why is that corner making a healing noise..... I like playing against people that are on par, or better then I am, and I miss the early days of cs when servers where loaded with addicts that came to play for fun/competation rather then a bunch of "OMG t3`// h4x0r!" screw ups that can barely manage the game's basics. Worse are the posers(h4x0rs) that cause the above party to belive its just hacks rather then trying to play harder. I've the opinion that more people should attend lans just to cleanse their disbeliefs that noone could do x y or z just becuase they can't. Even I've fallen victim to that sort of stupidty after cs servers installed HLG etc and seeing every 20 mins someone was kicked for ogc xwyg?? etc. That combined with the fact that each patch past the beta 6s made the game worse and worse was reason I hardly play it anymore.
League play is unforetently no more fun then your average pub, and nowhere near as much fun as a good pub.
*edit* forgot to mention that cheat dection also does have false postives. one bug was when you hit esc and resumed the game it would complain you where trying to change a var that you weren't suppose to be messing with(fixed after a patch but still annoying), and another time while playing dod it gripped that I had a wallhack on, I went to the irc channel of the anticheat people only to be told that the server was running an old version.
<!--QuoteBegin--D3n15+Dec 14 2002, 01:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D3n15 @ Dec 14 2002, 01:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yo, dudes, try this one! I just gonned the ban ip treatement at www.sniperlust.com for my mad hacks.... as a SKULK!! ROFL. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, Sniperlust has to be one of the dumbest servers in NS. I like how when you swear, it deliberately makes you "stuck" in the floor and then taunts you with annoying messages.
Allow me to sum up my one and only game there:
*Round starts. *Skulk rush. *I get killed by spore cloud (the 3-hive lerk ability). <i>Me</i>: "What the F***?!" <i>Auto-server script</i>: "Acheron is stuck! HAHAHAHAHA WHAT A LOSER!"
It's the NS equivalent of Mega-TF. A newb heaven =/
I'd like to play the game for a while AFTER the drawviewmodel cheat is fixed. When that happens I think you may find many of these so-called 'l33t' players playing like noobs because their easy cheat was locked out.
Right now use of the drawviewmodel cheat is RAMPANT and we could really use a patch to get this fixed ASAP. It shouldn't be that hard to fix that one small thing right?
I was introduced to a resource point 'cheat' yesterday. This one works 100% and is a right **obscenity**. It doesn't require any hacks or scripts but when alien players perform certain actions the gorge can gain masses of rp really quickly. I was playing gorge and suddenly received 30 extra rp from a player who was aware of this feature as I had 50 already I was able to start the 2nd hive off earlier than I really should have. I won't go into any more details on an open forum but I would like to mention it to the development team in private so this can be sorted out for v1.04....
When one goes to ready room he give more resource than he currently have so gorgs get resource real quick, try going resource room repeatedly with a friend as a gorg the resource will just keep increasing.
Well easy way to fix is discarding the resource that the player currently has when he goes to ready room.
Comments
Fact of the matter is, there are cheaters. One would be naive to think that there are no cheaters in the game. Yet one would also be naive to think that when someone kills oyu, they must be cheating. Yet that is how it goes.
More then likely, so called persons are not using a real cheat, but rather just a modification of there. Like no muzzle flash. Many have said that this does not distract them, but to me, on my 1024 res, it takes up a good part of the crosshair, and if a skulk goes into the flash, you might as well stop firing so you can see him again. So thoe kind of advantages, can really help.
Its just a balance of things. When you see a guy, right from the begganing of a new game, pick skulks off the wall in a dark corner with a small burst, and then run into the hive, and consequnetly kill al lwho come to oppose him, over and over, hes not playing normal. Unfortunly for many, i have noticed alot of clan members once again becoming top dogs. Not really becuase of skill, but becuase they decided to mess with there NS files.
Theres no end to this argument, and one shouldn;t try to finish it.
Just acknowledge that there are cheaters, and you are going to play with them, wether it be in a public server, or a clan match, they will always be there.
ROFL.
What kind of crack are those people on? Do they really think I got an aimbot on a zero-range bite weapon? Or maybe they think that 3 marines (I ate 3 marines at a time maybe 3 times, and racked up something like 18 kills in 10 minutes or so of gameplay), should be able to take out one skulk? True, 3 talented marines should be able too... but these guys weren't exactly aiming godlike, and they were often distracted by either building stuff, or the fact that I jump like mad from side to side when I attack (without warning of course). Also, I had the Carapace upgrade after a few minutes of game time.
I mean, Skulking is an art!
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Jump from side to side when attacking (only very talented marines can kill you if you do this)
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> Turrets can't shoot a rapidly moving target very well. Also, they can't shoot a target hidden behind a Turret Factory, Resource Collector, another Turret, a small bump in the map, whatever. Use this to your advantage always. And of course, if you eat the Turret Factory, the turrets are all de-activated. Chomp fest!
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> If you get dammaged, even for 20 hp and 10 armour, it's almost always worth running away to get healed, then comming back, since:
1) Spawn time is really slow.
2) You save two credits and evolving time if you had an upgrade.
3) You look way l33ter if you have lots of frags but few deaths
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Lastly, if you want to avoid being Admin Ban bait, which will only be an issue for the somewhat skilled vs the very n00bish, jump all over the marines and fire your parasite gun reapetedly. The parasites will enfuriate them without doing more than tickle damage, and give them an opportunity for them to lay into you with their 50 bullet clips.
*sigh* if only.
BlueGhost
I wasn't saying "Hey, guys, there are people CHEATING in this game. Gasp." Everyone knows cheating goes on. I'm not naive.
My point was this:
I've been playing NS for about a month now. And through that time, I and all the other newbies had a learning curve, and we got better, and games got better. And now I can see who the new newbies are, and can easily see how I made the same mistakes, and can watch them learn and get better, progressively.
But suddenly within the past week or so, there's a new class of player out there who is UBER-LEET and can do things the other 99% of the players do not do. The guy who can seemingly see you around a wall, hit you on his first try, every time, and can take down a room full of skulks without getting scratched.
Now, I grant you, there are certainly those players who are THAT GOOD and can pull off amazing feats. I'd love to become one of them. But it just seems unlikely that there are that many people with superhuman reflexes and X-ray vision out there.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these people are really a new breed of human who can track five moving targets and cap them all without taking a scratch. I just have my doubts.
My point, then, was to see if others noticed the same thing, particularly in the last week or so. Of 30 or so posts, maybe 2 or 3 agreed, and the vast majority said I should shut up. So I'll shut up. Maybe there's nothing going on here. And maybe even if there is, it's not worth talking about.
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There's a logical explination for that:
The UBER-LEET gamers play religiously for about 12 hours a day.
Practice makes perfect. Instead of trying to blame cheats or whatnot, try to get better with your skills and defeat those UBER-LEET players.
Come on, that post was entirely pathetic.
Video games are just like any other game on the planet. You have your Kobe Bryants, and then you have your (insert some crappy NBA player's name here). Does Kobe hack because he gets more points then Joe Shmoe? No, he's just better. People are just better at certain things then others. Calling people hackers is just paranoia, and for the most part, an attempt at self gratification (ie: trying to make yourself feel better... "I'M THE BEST NON-HACKER ALIVE!!!!!! ANYONE WHO KILLS ME HACKS!!!!").
An unupgraded skulk is about the easiest thing to kill in any game I've ever played. The reasons?
a) 9 bullets. ONLY 9 BULLETS. Nuff said.
b) They make noise WHENEVER they move. (Walking, running, jumping, crouching.. etc)
c) They're not overly fast. (ie: quite easy to keep your xhairs on them, jumping about hardly makes a difference)
Now, if you throw lvl3 Carapace or Celerity on a skulk, it gets a ton harder.
I think the #1 thing which SHOULD be changed to help skulks out... NO NOISE WHEN THEY WALK. It's hard enough that a skulk has to deal with motion tracking, at least give them the chance to get into a hiding spot silently.
Video games are just like any other game on the planet. You have your Kobe Bryants, and then you have your (insert some crappy NBA player's name here). Does Kobe hack because he gets more points then Joe Shmoe? No, he's just better. People are just better at certain things then others. Calling people hackers is just paranoia, and for the most part, an attempt at self gratification (ie: trying to make yourself feel better... "I'M THE BEST NON-HACKER ALIVE!!!!!! ANYONE WHO KILLS ME HACKS!!!!").
An unupgraded skulk is about the easiest thing to kill in any game I've ever played. The reasons?
a) 9 bullets. ONLY 9 BULLETS. Nuff said.
b) They make noise WHENEVER they move. (Walking, running, jumping, crouching.. etc)
c) They're not overly fast. (ie: quite easy to keep your xhairs on them, jumping about hardly makes a difference)
Now, if you throw lvl3 Carapace or Celerity on a skulk, it gets a ton harder.
I think the #1 thing which SHOULD be changed to help skulks out... NO NOISE WHEN THEY WALK. It's hard enough that a skulk has to deal with motion tracking, at least give them the chance to get into a hiding spot silently.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's why I've put my suspicions to the test. I think everyone should realize that no matter how good you are, there are players better than you are.
Having said that, I've done some calculations. In the time it takes to unload 6 rounds, the gunfire sound goes off about 4 times. Now that's roughly once per two rounds. The LMG of the person that I had suspicions about went of <u>once</u>. This was after I was already in mid-air. I dropped *snaps fingers* dead.
Like I said, as an alien, I'm used to getting blasted here and there. But there are situations in which a simple "well he's just better than you are" doesn't add up.
Drone
Group: Members
Posts: 23
Member No.: 9931
Joined: 25-November 02
Since I have no specific proof of anything, I wouldn't dream of pointing out specific names and incidents.
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no hacking going on in NS, people are just becoming better players. If you think someone is wallhacking, its motion tracking trust me. If you think a person has 'aimbot', its either you have low hp, they upgraded weapons (arms lab), or that person plays very well. You must also take into consideration that most people get Very Low fps in NS. I'am happy to say that I get a constant 99fps in all HL mods (geforce4ti4600 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->). I would have to say that it is very easy for me to take down skulks in the beggining of the game. I would also have to say that a 1337 skulk will come by and start bobing and weaving towards (makes it harder for me to hit) and bites my face open. I seriously doubt that they're are hacks in NS, most of these people complaing probably suck so bad, I've met a few of these people ingame. I've been called a h4x0r several times in NS, please you n00bs get some skill you go up against me, then call me a h4x0r.
I don't know if I agree with the invulnerable skulk theory - I know people personally who can do horrible things to turrets with circle-strafing, and I myself am a big fan of the hiding-behind-a-building theory.
There do exist marines, though, who open fire the very millisecond you enter the room, hit you with pinpoint accuracy, and then instantly switch to hit your buddy who's coming in from another angle.
Skulks aren't dying quicker because the marines have "upgrade" hacks, they're dying because every stinking bullet hits. For most normal players, a quickly-moving skulk is tough to hit if it surprises you - you shoot in its general direction, and some percentage of the bullets hit. The game is designed and balanced with this in mind. An aimbot, though, is untroubled by the speed of its target, and NS's guns are pinpoint-accurate compared to CS's. Instant skulk death.
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I imagine wallhacks would also be handy for the marines if it's still the very start of the game and motion isn't up yet, since in the early game the aliens depend so much on stealth.
Wallhack+aimbot+skulks = quick ownage of aliens. And I've played more than a few games in which every skulk that sees a marine dies instantly. My response is typically to switch servers, since this sort of thing is still blessedly rare, and as far as I can tell the cheaters clump together.
however here are a few things (I have said this like 5 times in this thread)
1) YOU CANT CHANGE WEAPON DMG!!!
So you can't be 'invulnerable' you cant power up a gun, you cant do any of these things thus don't even bring em up
2) RP hacks are probably imposible (not positive b/c I don't know exactly how they are handled but I have a good idea)
RPs are RPOBABLY done server side, thus they can not be 'hacked', what one person described sounded like sv_cheats being on, but I sorta don't think so
look, basicaly I am saying that some things are server side and thus can NOT be hacked, nufsaid
There is very little that can be done to make the game fun if you are playing with jerks.
Obviously, cheats should be stopped whereever possible, but the if someone's cheating, just go to a different server, tell teh admin, whatever. Unless it gets to the stage where every server is filled with cheats, its not that much of a problem.
Besides that, not too worried about cheats. Wallhack? Eh, we all get a way to see through walls eventually. Thanks to revisions in half-life's code, just about everything else would have to be serverside, and if the server admin is cheating your hosed regardless.
I'm more worried about cheesy tactics. Jetpacking on top of the hive and being force fed medpacks while you finish off the hive partially protected by it's own hitboxes, that's cheap. Siege cannon is cheese for many reasons, and I'll be glad when it's been nerfed in 1.04. Placing offencive towers under the elevator is cheap. Placing mines on the rotating elevator is cheap. Ect.
I don't know if this would be feasible with server memory etc, since I'm not a professional programmer, but I think the best remedy would be showing the recently deceased a 15-20 second instant replay of their death from their killer's first person view. This way, if a person is truely cheating, each person he haxors would become another vote to kick him off the server.
-Leu
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there ARE any cheaters, I hope measures will be taken against them in the shortest time lapse possible. Earlier, I got wrongfully accused of aimbotting because I kept killing fades at short range with an LMG clip ('Never missing' they said).. Which ended up in many tries to get me kicked. I hope one day, games (multiplayer ones, anyway) will be entirely software-cheat free so the innocent doesn't pay for the guilty's crimes.
it happened to me...i was just a normal n00b...firing round after round at a skulk screaming...only to get chomped.
Then one day, i suddenly managed to kill about five skulks in under five minutes, (they just ran to the cc...and i leaped out of their way and killed them, they just kept repeating this method...they were dumb.)
and my confidence over came me. I learned to fire in short bursts, strafe and now i find skulk killing is easy, unless they have become veterans..what i am saying is, there are people out there who will always be god-like, maybe because of their pings...or maybe because they are paraniod and do in-fact look up from time to time.
The pistol is 100% accurate, and I beleive it fires as fast you click - so an aimbot with that would possibly explain seeming insta-kills.
The main issue with aimbots however, is it is impossible to hide from a player withan aimbot, since it looks in all directions all the time.
Meh, this is topic has gone on too long, yet I keep on posting on it. Sorry.
So relax and if you find something abnormal on the server simply leave it.
The reason for that is because I first played gorge and barely saw combat. Those marines attacked me in the early game ended up being killed by either a skulk or one of my defense chambers.
In the late game as we rushed the base I contineously used spore cloud on the Marines Spawn. Immediatly as they popped up they were dead.
Not to mention how **obscenity** they were about this.
League play is unforetently no more fun then your average pub, and nowhere near as much fun as a good pub.
*edit* forgot to mention that cheat dection also does have false postives. one bug was when you hit esc and resumed the game it would complain you where trying to change a var that you weren't suppose to be messing with(fixed after a patch but still annoying), and another time while playing dod it gripped that I had a wallhack on, I went to the irc channel of the anticheat people only to be told that the server was running an old version.
ROFL.
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Yes, Sniperlust has to be one of the dumbest servers in NS. I like how when you swear, it deliberately makes you "stuck" in the floor and then taunts you with annoying messages.
Allow me to sum up my one and only game there:
*Round starts.
*Skulk rush.
*I get killed by spore cloud (the 3-hive lerk ability).
<i>Me</i>: "What the F***?!"
<i>Auto-server script</i>: "Acheron is stuck! HAHAHAHAHA WHAT A LOSER!"
It's the NS equivalent of Mega-TF. A newb heaven =/
Right now use of the drawviewmodel cheat is RAMPANT and we could really use a patch to get this fixed ASAP. It shouldn't be that hard to fix that one small thing right?
Regards,
Savant
I won't go into any more details on an open forum but I would like to mention it to the development team in private so this can be sorted out for v1.04....
When one goes to ready room he give more resource than he currently have so gorgs get resource real quick, try going resource room repeatedly with a friend as a gorg the resource will just keep increasing.
Well easy way to fix is discarding the resource that the player currently has when he goes to ready room.