Hacking And Cheating And Aimbots
NinjaBurger
Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9931Members
Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9931Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Oh my</div> Since I have no specific proof of anything, I wouldn't dream of pointing out specific names and incidents.
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?
Comments
Skulk running along, stops, lurks above door, marine comes in, having seen the blue dot moving, and starts shooting upwards, skulk leaps down on him but dies - normal.
Skulk lurking in top corner of a room for several minutes, marine comes through door on opposite end of room, fires several pistol shots that all hit the skulk, skulk dies - not normal.
Skulk chewing on turret, dies. Repeats 6 times, then finally destroys turret - normal.
Skulk chewing on turret for a full minute while three turrets fire at him non-stop, and skulk does not die - not normal.
Marine enters room with 5 skulks in it. All skulks attack him. He kills two with LMG but is killed by skulks when reloading - normal.
Marine enters room with 5 skulks in it. Skulks attack. He kills them all without dying or reloading - somewhat short of miraculous, and not normal.
There are no doubt players who are *that good*. But it seems within the past week the number of these players has skyrocketed. And it's much more plausible that people are using cheats, than to believe that suddenly hundreds of players have received divine insight into playing Natural Selection with godlike ability.
ok, that out of the way (I just wanted to point out that it is literaly imposible)
I often get those skulks that have been sitting on a wall (even with out motion tracking) b/c I am a paranoid screwhead, it happenes, live with it
as for 5 skulks, meh, it happenes
look, aim bots are not going to help much (confire, no location dmg etc)
and if a marine manages to off 5 skulks with out getting touched, those skulks deserve to die (It is not a matter of his skill, it it is simply that the TIME it would take to kill 5 skulks, even if they were lined up and not moving, should give them the time to at least chomp him once)
I personaly have pulled off the 5 skulk thing (as well as 5 marines)
As of yet I have not seen anyone who was cheating, if you realy want to find out, spec them, that is the only realy relible way (and don't forget about sound, paranoia, and LAG)
/me looks at website.
/me likes
That is indeed the best website ever Ninja!
ok, that out of the way (I just wanted to point out that it is literaly imposible)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen it happen twice in the past 24 hours. So something's wrong then.
And I'm not saying that killing with such divine mastery is impossible. I'm just saying that it's somehow become much more common, much more quickly. It just doesn't seem right.
and my responses are that invuln are literaly imposible (would take alterations to server side files and such)
as for aim bots, I am not denieing their existance (I have not looked for them recently, yes I have used most cheats, again only to test em)
and the best ways to see if some one is cheating are:
1) spec em, you see what they see, if you watch them track something through a wall, there is a decent chance of cheating, just remember that some ppl realy are just good.
2) get a demo of them and send it to the admins, admins will often be all to happy to perma ban cheaters.
Really wouldnt like to play against immortal people, they just ruin the fun in it
and another thing just for the cheaters out there reading this ...
You arent a great player when you can kill an entier team WHILE CHEATTING!!! your just a stupid **obscenity** who tries to screw the game for the rest of the players.
thank you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh and about the website <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Iff seen beter <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopefully VAC with help when its finally intergrated into NS.
Well, pistol is pretty good ranged, and IIRC, only 3 shots need to hit to kill a base skulk...that is if the skulk isn't already low on health. Here is a tip: just because you are on the ceiling doesn't mean smart marines will not look for you. Smart marines should ALWAYS watch the ceilings and corners when entering a new room, and shoot at suspicious shapes for the hell of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk chewing on turret for a full minute while three turrets fire at him non-stop, and skulk does not die - not normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is very feasible to set up turrets so that there are areas which cannot be hit...e.g., behind any structure. Also, if the turrets are tracking other enemies they might not attack you. Edit: also remember turrets have vertical range limitations, they can't go too far up or down....like +-30 degress or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marine enters room with 5 skulks in it. Skulks attack. He kills them all without dying or reloading - somewhat short of miraculous, and not normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I have killed 4 in a row. Maybe 5. Granted that is pretty rare, but every once in a while when you're in the zone it's possible.
I play aliens more than I do marines. So I KNOW where the hiding spots are, thus those are the first spots that I check. Also, I know the in's and out's of 90% of the maps. So if I'm building something, or camping in a room, and I see the motion tracking dot go up and then disappear, when I go into that hall/room the first place I'm gonna look is where that dot stopped (even if I don't go into that hall/room until 5 minutes later I'm still checking there first).
As for the pistol, it's very accurate, and you don't need more than a couple bullets to connect to kill a skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk chewing on turret, dies. Repeats 6 times, then finally destroys turret - normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it takes you six lives to kill a turret you need more practice as a skulk. The only time it's gonna take me six lives is if the room has marines in it. If the room is clear of marines it's cake.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk chewing on turret for a full minute while three turrets fire at him non-stop, and skulk does not die - not normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's all about where you position yourself. You can line yourself up behind buildings/turrets so you're blocked from fire of certain turrets. Also, if there's room to move around the turret, you can circle-strife the turret and easily take it down without dying.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marine enters room with 5 skulks in it. Skulks attack. He kills them all without dying or reloading - somewhat short of miraculous, and not normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's possible, I've seen it and I've done it. But usually requires the use of your pistol as well.
<b><span style='color:green'>***SPORED*** Watch your language.</span></b>
Oh, and [EC.eBnar] isn't cheating. He really is that good.
[off-topic] /me hopes that kid with the "tilt" avatar has actually heard of tilt, and doesn't just like to... lift trucks.... [/off-topic]
As for other stuff going around. Yes, It takes away the fun for us, and I could never picture It being FUN to have an overwhelming advantage to other people. I love it when I'm down to 5 rounds of my pistol, my jetpack is out of fuel, and theres a fade rushing me. I usually yell Tallyho! and then get my face melted off, but all the same...
As for aimbot or wallhack. I'm not quite sure how they would work on a game like NS, such as in comparison to something like CS *Cringe*, but the server I play on uses a lasersight add on, and there have been times when I'll be sitting there, patiently, for quite some time as a skulk, and then some guys will come down the elevator, and the whole time... I see this laser following me as they go down the elevator... It just kinda makes you wonder.
OH well, until gaming is recognized as an olympic event, and Hacking is a federal offense that is punishble by death, we won't get true satisfaction. Ah, the future should be bright for our children...Or our childrens children. Depends on how long it takes for Valve to stay out of anti cheat software... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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If the marine commander didn't place the turrents proper then a skull can easily sneek into it's blind spot and seeing how turrents can't shot though the TF it will eventually get destoryed
if that server was called voogru then it is possible to get fades within 4 mins of the start of the game W00H00 gotta luv voogro for it's ultra-|33t Server
But it seems strange that over the past week or so there's a sudden increase in the number of Uber-good players who can spin around a corner, spot you in the corner and instantly kill you by firing one or two perfectly aimed shots.
Or the number of skulks who can sit underneath a turret which is merrily firing at them and eat the whole thing in one sitting, without flinching or suffering damage at all.
Or the number of marines who can stand in the middle of a room full of five skulks and kill them all with a single clip from an LMG while taking no damage.
Yes, there are good players out there. Yes, there are people who are Uber-good and can pull this off. But there aren't that many who can do the impossible, over and over again. There is cheating going on, my friends. Wall hacking and Aim botting and whatnot. And unless it's stopped, it'll ruin it for the rest of us.
This, then, is a call for discussion on the topic, not an attempt to point fingers at people. Maybe it's not a real problem at all. I think it is. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Regarding cheating.
Unless you are a programmer and you have the perfect foolproof anti-cheat software ready to impliment into NS this thread pretty much sums how everyone feels.
In other words, it is a useless thread.
You're telling us that you are suspicious of cheaters. We tell you that we are suspicious of cheaters. I hope you are content with that because these thread only spiral into speculative examples of cheating that only adds to the "underlying tension" that exists in all HL related MODs (CS, DOD etc).
There is a "Kicked and Banned for Owning" Thread on here somewhere that could be a direct example of this tension wreaking things for potentially legitimate players.
NS Developers know about cheaters.
You know about cheaters.
We know about cheaters.
We all don't like them, they could be anywhere. What more needs to be said?
Don't have a dead horse pic but you get the point.
Regarding Ninja Burger.
If Ninja Burger sold stock, I'd get me a piece of that action. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I understand it can be a legit concern, but I'd hate to go through that kind of thing in NS. =\ (Not that I'm quite as good anymore. haha)
NS Developers know about cheaters.
You know about cheaters.
We know about cheaters.
We all don't like them, they could be anywhere. What more needs to be said?
Don't have a dead horse pic but you get the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. There's quite a bit of usefull things left to be said.
For starters, threads like this rise public awareness of a very real danger to a game we all love. While the potential exists for people to cry "cheater!" every time they get owned, there are events that go way beyond the plausible. These should be investigated by the dev team, NOT discussed on the boards.
Threads like this should become a locked sticky that contains the following information:
How to find out the IP address, and any adminmods running on the server in question.
How to capture a SS/demo of a suspected cheat.
Contact information of NS dev team persons that investigate suspected cheating.
This is not a dead horse. Mabe in other games the horse has been allowed to die. That does not mean that we, as a community, have to just shrug and move on to another server untill there are no more.
It is in the player's power to police the servers they play on. If you see obvious cheating like rocketing resources in the first minute of the game, you should report it to the dev team. The more they know about it, the better they can patch that stuff out of the game. If we just shrug it off, this will become just one more of those games that we remember fondly "Gee, I miss playing NS. Too bad it became a h4x0r playground"
<span style='color:red'> ****in read this article for crying out loud.
<a href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A27226-2002Dec8¬Found=true' target='_blank'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p......8¬Found=true</a>
WHere the heck is vac and Valves supposed cheat blockers. For ***** sake arn't these people being paid to be an upperhand to online hackers. These people get paid big bucks for what, making a program to supposedly stop hackers? Can we do soemthing to fix the entire freakin HL community</span> I'm sure some bright people with the profession of stopping hackers can do soemthing for this community. I have played many PC games with no hacking, Wtf Hl and its mods? YOu know the main reason why people who don't play CS hate CS? Because of hackers. Its amazing that after so long since HL's release that we are even seeing this problem to this day. Is it money issues, don't even start there because I think there is well enough to hire some dood with 30 years of hacking experence to counter the some 10 or 12 ****'s who keep making this crap and releasing them to the hordes of 10 year olds wanting to win win win!
Ok I'm done already. I have always hated cheating and stand for the people who suffer for all this.
Omg what the Heck is this I see:
<a href='http://www.zeroping.com/counter-hack/sp_programs.cfm' target='_blank'>http://www.zeroping.com/counter-hack/sp_programs.cfm</a>
A bunch of people attempting to stop hacking but why do I feel like its not professionally being organized. Canw e get these guys tons of money to be more productive, geesh. We can't expect these guys to keep up with the neverending saga of cheating. Lets get these groups tons of freakin mula and get more done so we can be happy. Thats only one link and I'm sure there are more project oriented people trying to stop the hacking so this site may be a bad example. I also heard a rumor that VALVE turned down Paladin for what reasons? I don't understand. I'm confused at the moment. Maybe valve likes hackers.
Joe Marine is aimed straight up at the ceiling, fires a few times, kills me, and then runs back where he came from.
I wasn't saying "Hey, guys, there are people CHEATING in this game. Gasp." Everyone knows cheating goes on. I'm not naive.
My point was this:
I've been playing NS for about a month now. And through that time, I and all the other newbies had a learning curve, and we got better, and games got better. And now I can see who the new newbies are, and can easily see how I made the same mistakes, and can watch them learn and get better, progressively.
But suddenly within the past week or so, there's a new class of player out there who is UBER-LEET and can do things the other 99% of the players do not do. The guy who can seemingly see you around a wall, hit you on his first try, every time, and can take down a room full of skulks without getting scratched.
Now, I grant you, there are certainly those players who are THAT GOOD and can pull off amazing feats. I'd love to become one of them. But it just seems unlikely that there are that many people with superhuman reflexes and X-ray vision out there.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these people are really a new breed of human who can track five moving targets and cap them all without taking a scratch. I just have my doubts.
My point, then, was to see if others noticed the same thing, particularly in the last week or so. Of 30 or so posts, maybe 2 or 3 agreed, and the vast majority said I should shut up. So I'll shut up. Maybe there's nothing going on here. And maybe even if there is, it's not worth talking about.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wasn't saying "Hey, guys, there are people CHEATING in this game. Gasp." Everyone knows cheating goes on. I'm not naive.
My point was this:
I've been playing NS for about a month now. And through that time, I and all the other newbies had a learning curve, and we got better, and games got better. And now I can see who the new newbies are, and can easily see how I made the same mistakes, and can watch them learn and get better, progressively.
But suddenly within the past week or so, there's a new class of player out there who is UBER-LEET and can do things the other 99% of the players do not do. The guy who can seemingly see you around a wall, hit you on his first try, every time, and can take down a room full of skulks without getting scratched.
Now, I grant you, there are certainly those players who are THAT GOOD and can pull off amazing feats. I'd love to become one of them. But it just seems unlikely that there are that many people with superhuman reflexes and X-ray vision out there.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these people are really a new breed of human who can track five moving targets and cap them all without taking a scratch. I just have my doubts.
My point, then, was to see if others noticed the same thing, particularly in the last week or so. Of 30 or so posts, maybe 2 or 3 agreed, and the vast majority said I should shut up. So I'll shut up. Maybe there's nothing going on here. And maybe even if there is, it's not worth talking about.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like Bolter said these types of discussions are important <i>IF</i> they are about how we as a community should deal with cheaters. I agree with that.
I don't think you are whining or complaining but all you are telling us here is that you suspect that there are some UBER-LEET cheaters in the game. We know that.
Cheaters are no different then regular players, there are people who are good at it and there are people who aren't. Does it surprise me that people have gotten good at cheating? No, not really.
Let's turn this thread around... what should we do if we encounter a cheater? What information do we need? Who should be informed?
Everybody and their dog who plays FPS can post a story about how some uber-cheater wreaked the game for them... so much so that threads of that nature have long become repetitive and useless.
You have remained very civil and I'm sure you are just partially venting. I may have suggested that you "shut up" but I don't mean it that harshly, I am just as frustrated as you with cheaters. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
What I wanted to make you aware of is that <i>talking about how you are being cheated</i> is useless, <i>talking about how to DEAL with cheaters</i> is a far more constructive.
I hope Bolter puts up the Anti-Cheater Procedures because I woule be interested to taking those steps so cheating doesn't get out of hand in NS. I play this game for fun mostly, if I suspect a cheater I'll just join another server... just not worth it to fill my playtime with frustrations and potentially false accusations.
You have remained very civil and I'm sure you are just partially venting. I may have suggested that you "shut up" but I don't mean it that harshly, I am just as frustrated as you with cheaters. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
What I wanted to make you aware of is that <i>talking about how you are being cheated</i> is useless, <i>talking about how to DEAL with cheaters</i> is a far more constructive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point. I can start by stating the obvious - what won't work if you encounter a cheater: Accuse them of cheating.
Pointless. They will either get defensive and flame you, ignore you altogether or just flat out deny it. Human nature. Even if you get caught robbing a bank and you're on video camera, some people will deny it and try to lie about it in court. If someone is a cheater, chances are they're also a liar. So accusations do nothing.
That said, any process must involve:
Detection. Someone has to spot something funny first, because you can't monitor everyone all the time.
Observation. Watch them to see if what they're doing is consistently funny, and not just a fluke "I was in a zone and killed six fades with a knife." Is it cheating, a map exploit, or unexplained phenomena?
Confirmation. Difficult. Can any of this be proven from the server side? Or is it always just a strong assumption?
Reaction. Reporting. To who? To what end? Banning from server? Only spreads the disease to other servers.
Solution. Presumably a patch to prevent the activity from repeating. Or something that automatically deals with them if it detects known cheating behavior (is it possible to do this?)
again I posted this in this thread
what to do if you think some one is cheating (and realy care)
1) spec em, this will generaly tell you if they realy are cheating
2) remember, these are NOT cheats:
a) increase DMG
b) increase HP/invul
c) anything that would require changing server variables (those were 2 exaples)
3) if you REALY think some one is cheating send the admins of the server an email with a demo (in the con type "recored <i>filename</i>") as well as a description of what to look for, and their ID
4) don't try and flame em down in game, if they realy are making the game unplayable either leave or admin_vote_kick em AFTER you explain what they are doing