Frequent, random crashes

13

Comments

  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    @0x6A7232 The event viewer brought up a few interesting possibilities;
    Log Name:      System
    Source:        Display
    Date:          7/25/2017 16:08:52
    Event ID:      4101
    Task Category: None
    Level:         Warning
    Keywords:      Classic
    User:          N/A
    Computer:      DESKTOP-EVO7BM7
    Description:
    Display driver amdkmdap stopped responding and has successfully recovered.
    Event Xml:
    <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
      <System>
        <Provider Name="Display" />
        <EventID Qualifiers="0">4101</EventID>
        <Level>3</Level>
        <Task>0</Task>
        <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
        <TimeCreated SystemTime="2017-07-25T21:08:52.682910200Z" />
        <EventRecordID>4964</EventRecordID>
        <Channel>System</Channel>
        <Computer>DESKTOP-EVO7BM7</Computer>
        <Security />
      </System>
      <EventData>
        <Data>amdkmdap</Data>
        <Data>
        </Data>
      </EventData>
    </Event>
    
    I'm betting that when it says it recovered that just means we got the picture back... which we do, just not the video from the game. So it crashes, we get the blue screen, then it recovers and we get the desktop. There are multiple identical entries of this, sometimes a few in quick succession. So maybe these are just stumbles and not actual crashes.

    Under the "Application" branch of the tree I found one stretch of particularly interesting logs. Starting at 05:19:39 with a "LiveKernelEvent" message there were dozens of logs over the next several seconds, culminating in;
    Log Name:      Application
    Source:        Application Hang
    Date:          9/27/2017 05:19:47
    Event ID:      1002
    Task Category: (101)
    Level:         Error
    Keywords:      Classic
    User:          N/A
    Computer:      DESKTOP-EVO7BM7
    Description:
    The program Subnautica.exe version 5.6.2.0 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Security and Maintenance control panel.
     Process ID: 58c
     Start Time: 01d33779243b2308
     Termination Time: 4294967295
     Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Subnautica\Subnautica.exe
     Report Id: 62740cf6-a36d-11e7-a7f8-001d60555739
     Faulting package full name: 
     Faulting package-relative application ID: 
    
    Event Xml:
    <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
      <System>
        <Provider Name="Application Hang" />
        <EventID Qualifiers="0">1002</EventID>
        <Level>2</Level>
        <Task>101</Task>
        <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
        <TimeCreated SystemTime="2017-09-27T10:19:47.751635400Z" />
        <EventRecordID>61600</EventRecordID>
        <Channel>Application</Channel>
        <Computer>DESKTOP-EVO7BM7</Computer>
        <Security />
      </System>
      <EventData>
        <Data>Subnautica.exe</Data>
        <Data>5.6.2.0</Data>
        <Data>58c</Data>
        <Data>01d33779243b2308</Data>
        <Data>4294967295</Data>
        <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Subnautica\Subnautica.exe</Data>
        <Data>62740cf6-a36d-11e7-a7f8-001d60555739</Data>
        <Data>
        </Data>
        <Data>
        </Data>
        <Binary>54006F00700020006C006500760065006C002000770069006E0064006F0077002000690073002000690064006C00650000000000</Binary>
      </EventData>
    </Event>
    
    There were multiple "AppHang81" errors, multiple "PnPGenericDriverFound" messages, multiple "StoreAgentDownloadFailure1" messages, multiple "PerfWatsonVS12Data" messages, a few "WindowsUpdateFailure3" messages, and an "APPCRASH" message for Radeon.exe all within a span of 7-8 seconds. It looks like it may be that Windows is trying to update behind the scenes and that causes too much draw on the system. So we get multiple crashes because Windows keeps trying to update and we keep trying to play.
  • nesrak1nesrak1 Places Join Date: 2016-12-04 Member: 224536Members Posts: 299 Advanced user
    Are you in fullscreen?
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    You'll want something that stresses both the CPU and GPU, I'd think, because that's what a game would do. (Especially one that's not finished being optimized).

    Oh. You could also try this (but if you already reset your PC, probably no need. But it can't hurt):

    From an admin cmd prompt using Win+X+A (opens PowerShell, almost the same thing as cmd, although if you really need the old cmd prompt, put in cmd and enter in PowerShell and it'll open the old prompt. For these tasks, however, PowerShell will work fine.)
    dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth
    

    and then
    sfc /scannow
    

    EDIT: curious, what brand & model PSU did you get?
    Running that reset code now. I feel all Linux-y playing in the command prompt.

    The PSU is an Evga 500W unit. It's not the fanciest available. But It's a huge improvement over the Coolmax unit that was in the rig when I bought it.

    EDIT:
    The OCCT stress test at least appears to be very thorough. It does run both the GPU and CPU to their limits. It even has a PSU "test" where it ramps up everything to draw as much power as possible.
  • elfcrisiselfcrisis Join Date: 2017-05-13 Member: 230466Members Posts: 511 Advanced user
    Also, components can have the same issues: GPU works fine under light load, but under heavy load, the voltage regulators have broken down to the point where they can't handle the normal required power to perform, and screw everything up.

    @0x6A7232 This is exactly what I was thinking when he said it had started to crash with other games.

    @SouthernGorilla It's possible for new stresses to degrade an old part fairly quickly. My rig is pretty old, but the video card in it was doing fine for the light duty I'd been giving it for a while. I'd stopped gaming on it for a long time, living on my XBox instead, but when I was gaming, it ran fine. Things like Starcraft 2, for instance.

    Theeeen my wife got me to install Overwatch so I could play with her (she's aiming for Grandmaster Junkrat by sometime next year). It played fine for about a week and then started crashing. And then other things started crashing. And then my computer wouldn't boot... until I replaced the video card. Seems Overwatch put enough stress on the video card to cause it to break when otherwise it would have lasted a lot longer.

    I'm thinking Subnautica may have done the same thing for yours, but it's just a theory.

    Also, by the time you're done with this issue, you can put this kind of troubleshooting on your resume'. This is some serious low-level troubleshooting you're going at it like a champ. When I was a Microsoft contractor for several years, I lived and breathed this kind of thing and it fills me with a kind of nostalgic terror to see it again. Good times!
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    nesrak1 wrote: »
    Are you in fullscreen?

    @SouthernGorilla
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
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  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    nesrak1 wrote: »
    Are you in fullscreen?
    Yes. It hadn't occurred to me to try windowed mode.

    elfcrisis wrote: »
    Also, components can have the same issues: GPU works fine under light load, but under heavy load, the voltage regulators have broken down to the point where they can't handle the normal required power to perform, and screw everything up.

    @0x6A7232 This is exactly what I was thinking when he said it had started to crash with other games.

    @SouthernGorilla It's possible for new stresses to degrade an old part fairly quickly. My rig is pretty old, but the video card in it was doing fine for the light duty I'd been giving it for a while. I'd stopped gaming on it for a long time, living on my XBox instead, but when I was gaming, it ran fine. Things like Starcraft 2, for instance.

    Theeeen my wife got me to install Overwatch so I could play with her (she's aiming for Grandmaster Junkrat by sometime next year). It played fine for about a week and then started crashing. And then other things started crashing. And then my computer wouldn't boot... until I replaced the video card. Seems Overwatch put enough stress on the video card to cause it to break when otherwise it would have lasted a lot longer.

    I'm thinking Subnautica may have done the same thing for yours, but it's just a theory.

    Also, by the time you're done with this issue, you can put this kind of troubleshooting on your resume'. This is some serious low-level troubleshooting you're going at it like a champ. When I was a Microsoft contractor for several years, I lived and breathed this kind of thing and it fills me with a kind of nostalgic terror to see it again. Good times!

    I could see it hurting an old card, but I bought this card specifically so I could play games. The card is *maybe* six months old. Unless playing for hours at a time has sped up the degradation process. But if GPUs wear out that easily I'm going to quit games. I can't afford to buy a new card every few months. Based on what I saw from the event viewer I tend to think it's just an issue with the rig itself being too old to keep up. It's PCI-E 1.1, which can't be very fast compared to 3.0. Plus the SATA to the HD is slower. It's a 7-yr old motherboard. There may be all manner of bottlenecks causing issues. Not to mention the CPU itself.

    I didn't realize I was digging that deep with all this. I spent a decade playing with Linux on several desktops and laptops. So troubleshooting is just "normal" to me since nothing works out of the box with Linux.
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    I tried windowed mode and ran for a good 45 minutes or so before I got annoyed with being in windowed mode. So I went back to fullscreen, but kept the lower resolution. Then I got a crash about twenty minutes in. So maybe windowed mode would run fine or maybe the crash would have still happened. I'm thinking within the next couple weeks I'll be upgrading to an SSD. Maybe having quicker access to data will help. After that it will be a matter of waiting until I have the money to upgrade the whole rig. I just don't think this rig can move bytes like it needs to despite being overclocked.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    Well, SSD is one... you can fix the SATA bottleneck by buying a SATA PCI-E card (probably not worth it, just upgrade the rig, you've got a lot of other bottlenecks).

    You could also try installing, say, an older version of Windows on a separate partition and seeing if that helps (mobo not quite compatible with Win 10? I have a laptop like that, it can be a pain sometimes, but it does run 10, it just needs a lot of encouragement lol)
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
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  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    I don't see any problems with Windows in general. It boots promptly and doesn't seem to have any hiccups. But it is obviously a bigger strain on the system than a lightweight Linux distro would be. Maybe Windows and gaming are just a deadly combo in this case. It won't hurt to get the SSD since, as we've already mentioned, it can swap over with the rebuild. But I'm convinced there's nothing more that can be done to save this rig. It seems to be running as well as it can. It's just not up to the task.
  • elfcrisiselfcrisis Join Date: 2017-05-13 Member: 230466Members Posts: 511 Advanced user
    I could see it hurting an old card, but I bought this card specifically so I could play games. The card is *maybe* six months old.

    Ahah, okay. Yeah that would sink my initial theory, though it's also possible you got a defective video card, and it only causes a crash under very specific conditions. But I think that's unlikely, and as you say, there are a lot of other factors/bottlenecks we can't really test, and a new rig will probably solve it all anyway. Here's to hoping you can get it sooner rather than later.
    So troubleshooting is just "normal" to me since nothing works out of the box with Linux.

    Hahahah, you got that right, bro. At one of my MS jobs, I spent /seven weeks/ on a customer's Linux problem. I got so deep into the troubleshooting that I inadvertently became the team's "Linux expert", lol.

    0x6A7232
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    elfcrisis wrote: »
    Ahah, okay. Yeah that would sink my initial theory, though it's also possible you got a defective video card, and it only causes a crash under very specific conditions. But I think that's unlikely, and as you say, there are a lot of other factors/bottlenecks we can't really test, and a new rig will probably solve it all anyway. Here's to hoping you can get it sooner rather than later.
    I'm really thinking about the fullscreen question now. Every crash we've ever had has been with a fullscreen program. It's entirely possible that an RX 460 just can't drive a 42" TV at 1080p. Or maybe it can just barely handle it and the slightest hiccup crashes it. We're going to experiment this weekend and see if we can run windowed mode for an extended period. That wouldn't explain why we didn't have any problems for the first few weeks though.
    Hahahah, you got that right, bro. At one of my MS jobs, I spent /seven weeks/ on a customer's Linux problem. I got so deep into the troubleshooting that I inadvertently became the team's "Linux expert", lol.
    I thoroughly enjoyed Linux for the first few years. But it's become such a cluster that it's simpler to deal with Windows. The problem is too many arrogant devs think every Linux box should be built to suit their ideals rather than designing their programs to suit the inherent flexibility of the OS. So you need to have at least two different graphics toolkits and who knows how many different versions of other libraries and programs just to run the basics of a desktop. It's absurd. [/rant]

  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    Just did something I hadn't tried before. I ran GPU-Z while playing in windowed mode so I could see what was going on in real-time. Even during the load screen and while I had the game paused the GPU usage was almost constantly pegged at 100%. The memory controller usage fluctuated pretty wildly with multiple spikes over 90%. Power draw was also pretty erratic, with spikes over 70W. To me, it does look like the card is operating at its limits and the slightest extra stress puts it over. This card doesn't have an auxiliary power input, so the power draw is perilously close to the PCI 75W limit. I don't know if these numbers are really out of the ordinary or if they're even accurate. So I may be wrong in thinking they indicate a potential problem. At least temperatures were stable and reasonable.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    My R7 360 I just got has a 6-pin power connector; you're positive your RX 460 doesn't have one (I almost missed the one on my 360)? According to this, your 460 beats out my 360 by about 16%. Might be the 460 is more efficient though? I know at least some 460s require a 6-pin.

    Also, Linux is cool. Try Manjaro with the KDE desktop (unless you have a DE that you prefer; Manjaro has several, but KDE is pretty flexible and popular). See if that improves your GNU experience any. My preference: Manjaro > Linux Mint Debian Edition > Ubuntu (so far, anyways) -- I'd also love to get Ubuntu's Unity DE on other distros, but the standard response is "well then just use Ubuntu" but, if I wanted Mac OS X's interface over a Windows backbone, I wouldn't appreciate being told to "just use a Mac then". You're right, a lot of Linux guys are pretty stuck up about stuff. (Side note: I started tinkering with Linux back when Mandriva came out. Fun times!) One more thing: you can run the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 now (no, it's not an emulator, yes you can run WINE on it to support old Windows programs better than Windows can, or at least that's the eventual hope)
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
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  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    My R7 360 I just got has a 6-pin power connector; you're positive your RX 460 doesn't have one (I almost missed the one on my 360)? According to this, your 460 beats out my 360 by about 16%. Might be the 460 is more efficient though? I know at least some 460s require a 6-pin.
    Yup. I actually bought the card in part because it didn't need extra power. The original PSU didn't have an extra connection so I couldn't have hooked it up. Power may not be the issue. I'm just tossing out every idea I have at this point. We'll see if it runs in windowed mode. Then since it has a DVI connection I'll hook it to a 17" monitor I have laying around to see if it runs that. If it runs on the monitor I'll definitely know the card is just overwhelmed by the TV.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    My R7 360 I just got has a 6-pin power connector; you're positive your RX 460 doesn't have one (I almost missed the one on my 360)? According to this, your 460 beats out my 360 by about 16%. Might be the 460 is more efficient though? I know at least some 460s require a 6-pin.
    Yup. I actually bought the card in part because it didn't need extra power. The original PSU didn't have an extra connection so I couldn't have hooked it up. Power may not be the issue. I'm just tossing out every idea I have at this point. We'll see if it runs in windowed mode. Then since it has a DVI connection I'll hook it to a 17" monitor I have laying around to see if it runs that. If it runs on the monitor I'll definitely know the card is just overwhelmed by the TV.

    If it was the TV, it would be the resolution, so you could fix it by lowering the resolution (the inches make no difference to the card; it's just putting out whatever the resolution is set to, so, for 1080p, that's 1920 pixels across x 1080 pixels high).

    I guess what I'm trying to say is if your 17" is set to 1920x1080 you won't see a difference.
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
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  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    Gotcha. No need to experiment then. I already know it will crash at the next lower resolution.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    Gotcha. No need to experiment then. I already know it will crash at the next lower resolution.

    Could try halving the res, and using some sort of smoothing (antialiasing).
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
    Forum BBCode Rainbow text generator
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    Upgrading to an SSD didn't fix it. We expect a decent refund on our taxes this year. A portion of that money is going to a full rebuild of the rig. That rebuild may include a new GPU. I might just build a whole new rig and then upgrade this one a bit to send to my folks.
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members Posts: 922 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    Once upon a time, I used to build my own computer every couple of years. These days, I shop for deals and just buy pre-built computers from Dell. They have a section on their website called, I think, Dell Outlet or something where they sell refurbished computers. Yeah, yeah, I know. Who wants to buy a refurbished computer? But included in that section of the website, they actually sell three different categories of "not new":

    1. Refurbished - broken computers that were then fixed
    2. Scratch and Dent - minor cosmetic issues that don't affect internal function
    3. Previously purchased new - computers sold and shipped to a customer and then returned without powering on

    They sell the "Scratch and Dent" and "Previously purchased New" computers for the same discounted prices as the refurbished ones. So, if you can shop around and wait before buying a new PC, you can often get the equivalent of a brand new Dell PC for almost half off the regular price. That's where I bought my last 3-4 computers. I'd get either a Scratch and Dent or previously purchased new, and I've gotten 3-4 years of use out of each computer.

    At the moment, I'm actually playing Subnautica on a Dell server I picked up for only $300 and then added 16 GB of memory for around $100 and an nVidia 750TI for around $130 and a Samsung 512GB SSD for $170. So, let's call it $700 for my gaming PC. It is certainly not the cheapest PC I've every bought. But it plays Subnautic just fine. I'm very happy with its performance. And, since it was a server class computer, it is definitely rock solid reliable. (If I had it to do over, 256 GB SSD would have been more than enough as my 512 is still only half full.)






  • KurasuKurasu Join Date: 2017-06-24 Member: 231322Members Posts: 274 Advanced user
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    @SouthernGorilla Have a look through these: http://carlcheo.com/best-smart-monitoring-tools

    I've used CrystalDiskInfo and HDD Health before, and Acronis is good. Anyways, get a SMART tool, and see if it says your drive has issues.
    According to CrystalDiskInfo the drive is fine. But I don't understand most of the info it prints out.

    I was going to post a screenshot but it isn't giving me the option to upload a photo. Don't feel like putting it up somewhere else just so I can link to it.

    This board, for whatever reason, doesn't allow you to upload photos. The 'General' one does, but this one doesn't. You'd think the bugfix board is the one where they would *want* to allow uploading!
    garath
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members Posts: 922 Advanced user
    edited October 2017
    Kurasu wrote: »
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    @SouthernGorilla Have a look through these: http://carlcheo.com/best-smart-monitoring-tools

    I've used CrystalDiskInfo and HDD Health before, and Acronis is good. Anyways, get a SMART tool, and see if it says your drive has issues.
    According to CrystalDiskInfo the drive is fine. But I don't understand most of the info it prints out.

    I was going to post a screenshot but it isn't giving me the option to upload a photo. Don't feel like putting it up somewhere else just so I can link to it.

    This board, for whatever reason, doesn't allow you to upload photos. The 'General' one does, but this one doesn't. You'd think the bugfix board is the one where they would *want* to allow uploading!

    What's really strange is you can upload the photo to a post (in progress but not yet posted) in general, copy the link, paste it to a post here and then... just not complete the post on general and the photo uploaded to the post you *didn't* complete on general will link here just fine. :)


  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    I might look at the Dell option. But a huge part of why I build my own is just the enjoyment/satisfaction of the process and not the "I can do it better" factor.
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members Posts: 922 Advanced user
    I might look at the Dell option. But a huge part of why I build my own is just the enjoyment/satisfaction of the process and not the "I can do it better" factor.

    For my last PC, I *wanted* to buy a Dell Home PC that could take 32 GB of RAM but the Dell Sales Rep LIED to me and said only their super high end Business models could take that much memory. So, I decided to put one together myself. I bought all the parts and then re-used a case from one of my older PC's. But I made a critical mistake and didn't remove all the motherboard standouts on the back plane of the case. These are the little things that make metal to metal contact with the insulated parts of the motherboard and that you put the screws in. I was in a hurry and put new standouts to align with the screw holes for the new motherboard but left the old ones on the back plane. I assembled the entire computer and powered it on. Oops!

    After that, I decided I didn't need 32 GB of memory and bought a Dell... which as it turned out could accommodate 32 Gig just fine. *sigh*

    I may try building my own PC again someday. Maybe. :)
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    I know the feeling. My first (only, so far) build I used a dual-socket server board and maxed out a credit card getting all the shiniest bits Newegg and Tiger Direct had to offer. Then I bought the cheapest PSU I could find... because PSUs don't matter, right? So I wound up with a $3,500 paperweight and a major shot to my credit when the PSU had a seizure. Needless to say, my next full build will have a very expensive PSU.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    Building your own PC, put it together and compare prices on pcpartpicker.com - test the benchmarks of the different components (which of these two components performs better?) at userbenchmark.com and read reviews / ask for advice on the forums from Ananadtech, Tom's Hardware, Hardware Canucks, and others listed here or here. Also /r/buildapc and /r/buildapcsales are handy for component selection. /r/helpmebuildapc if you need help while actually putting it together.

    Also, for PSUs, you don't necessarily want the most expensive (although, expect to pay a fair price). You want a reliable brand. The review sites above are helpful in that regard. Also, get a surge protector with a power filter. Look for something with a lot of joules of protection. (2-3,000?) Watch the surge protection light. Once it goes out, (usually in a few years unless a big surge hits) your surge protector has finally been chewed through by micro surges and needs replacement (as it's no longer filtering the power coming in). They aren't necessarily all that expensive, either. Also, if you want, you can get a crappy 500 or 1,000 joule protector, plug that into the wall, then plug the more expensive protector into that. So hopefully the crappy one protects the expensive one and gets replaced every so often, but if a big spike hits, the heavy duty protector won't let it pass through to your equipment.
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
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    SouthernGorilla
  • AkuMasterofMastersAkuMasterofMasters Join Date: 2017-09-10 Member: 232934Members Posts: 185 Advanced user
    edited November 2017
    This entire thread is in a language I'm too stupid to understand
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    This entire thread is in a language I'm too stupid to understand
    It's not stupid to be unfamiliar with jargon.

    By way of updating this situation, the crashes are getting worse. I get full crashes now sometimes, lose keyboard and everything and have to do a hard reboot. It's definitely not the game or the GPU. But I'm still at a loss to figure it out. We're holding out for our tax refund to rebuild the system. Especially now that it looks like my daily driver has blown a head gasket and needs immediate repair.

  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 4,923 Advanced user
    edited November 2017
    This entire thread is in a language I'm too stupid to understand
    It's not stupid to be unfamiliar with jargon.

    By way of updating this situation, the crashes are getting worse. I get full crashes now sometimes, lose keyboard and everything and have to do a hard reboot. It's definitely not the game or the GPU. But I'm still at a loss to figure it out. We're holding out for our tax refund to rebuild the system. Especially now that it looks like my daily driver has blown a head gasket and needs immediate repair.

    I forget (hey, it's been 3 pages) - have you run a Memtest on it? Make a Memtest86+ boot disk (just grab a FalconFour boot CD 4.6 + 4.61 patch, apply the patch to the 4.6 ISO) and put that on a USB key using Rufus.) and let that run overnight. (Only really need a few passes, though.)

    See if that runs through a few times with no problems.
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Hey, look, mods! | ReShade mods | Subnautica NexusMods | Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
    Forum BBCode Rainbow text generator
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    There's a built-in memory test that I have run. But I have not tried the fancy one. Mostly because it's not very convenient to use and I'm getting lazy in my old age.
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    Well, I need to experiment some more still... but it looks like the issue may be solved. I just played for about an hour with no issues whatsoever.

    Found a video that showed where to find the crash dump files (C:/Windows/Minidump/) and how to analyze them via an online dmp file analyzer. That led me to checking for a bad "atikmpag.sys" file in the System32/drivers folder. Turns out, the file wasn't bad... it was completely missing. Copied it over from the latest version in the appropriate AMD folder and voila! I'm guessing the file didn't get installed with one of the many updates and that's why we just suddenly started having trouble. I'll mark this thread SOLVED as soon as I'm sure this did the trick. As unpredictable as the crashes are it may take a few days to be fully confident in the solution. But I'm actually optimistic for once. I'll also post links to the info I used to find this out since the actual solution may be somewhat different for others.
    narfblat0x6A7232baronvonsatan
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