Age rating and description of the game
zds
Finland Join Date: 2017-08-08 Member: 232317Members
Finland Join Date: 2017-08-08 Member: 232317Members
Hello!
First of all, I have to say Subnautica in VR mode is wonderful, but also deeply terrifying. I've played computer games for 30 years and this is the first time a game comes to haunt me in my dreams.
So, I'm wondering if this should somehow be reflected in the game description. At least on Steam page the description focuses on lush reefs, not to the horror that lie deep below. In some discussions people have even recommended the game to kids: https://steamcommunity.com/app/264710/discussions/0/617330406660720276
In VR mode where the experience is even more overwhelming I would put hard limit somewhere between 16 and 18 years of age. This just is not a game for children.
First of all, I have to say Subnautica in VR mode is wonderful, but also deeply terrifying. I've played computer games for 30 years and this is the first time a game comes to haunt me in my dreams.
So, I'm wondering if this should somehow be reflected in the game description. At least on Steam page the description focuses on lush reefs, not to the horror that lie deep below. In some discussions people have even recommended the game to kids: https://steamcommunity.com/app/264710/discussions/0/617330406660720276
In VR mode where the experience is even more overwhelming I would put hard limit somewhere between 16 and 18 years of age. This just is not a game for children.
Comments
How can you think Half-Life or, say, Halo, where people are actively being devoured and turned into zombies while conscious of the fact, register below Subnautica on a horror scale? In Half-Life, in the beginning, you only have a Crowbar!
I get what you mean about Subnautica being scary, I just don't understand why the other games did not leave the hair on the back of your head standing up when you first played them.
Lot's of children have actually enjoyed the game, the forum here is full of kids and their moms and dads posting the drawings of their kiddos or even play dough models, it's pretty neat actually! Which gives me the impression that the E10+ rating is dead on, as they don't seem to complain about the game being waaaaaaay too scary.
Which would imply parental guidance for younger kids, they are also playing the game and having a blast with their parents. Let's let the parents do the parenting shall we, less meddling more self responsibility, so to speak
I don't deny that there is that dread from the deep vibe in this game, especially with their awesome sound design and apparent helplessness in hardcore and survival mode. But that is also tied into people's tolerance level for those kinds of things. I for one have a fear for whirlpools, those tings scare me to the bone, especially knowing I'm in an area where one could suddenly pop up, good thing they are not in game
I for one wouldn't have kiddos in VR mode or without adult supervision up to 11-12-ish? From what I've seen, kids actually enjoy the game a lot and tend to play the game with their moms or dads and I've yet to hear of kids actually getting scared or having nightmares. Usually they tend to play on freedom mode, is my guess
THIS!
Always makes me go
But if... they... If they add that, I don't want the rating to change...
@Obraxis @Squeal_Like_A_Pig Please don't add that!
1. Holy shit your making a game and it looks bad ass, I'm guessing you took inspiration from Bebop
2. You sound like a Dutch Bond villain, the second best type.
I demand links! PM if you must, but I want to check that out.
There's always the "old versions"* in my sig, that image is kinda based on Booster Z-Frame mixed with another game idea I have. It feels a bit strange to post on the Subnautica forums about games I'm making, especially in a thread that is about something completely different, is all
*those alpha tests/proof of concepts are quite archaic, kinda fun to see that compared to now
There's really no reason to jack up the age range. Back in the day, Nintendo released a Wii game called Endless Ocean that was a non-violent exploration game. Everything from shallow reefs to deep trenches. (And we're just going to scoot right past the impossibility of that.) There were plenty of scary moments in that, from giant squid to shadowy behemoths of the deep - not to mention the fear that deep water provokes in a sizable portion of the population - and they got an E for that. For Subnautica, with its non-photorealistic violence, lack of blood, and lack of even death animations, E10 is certainly appropriate. I'm an adult and deep water still scares the spit out of me...does that mean that it should be rated at some mythical point above AO because the ALZ kinda freaks me out? Nope. That's my problem, not the game's or the developers'.
On the larger issue, we're talking about game ratings. This is the same as talking about movie ratings. They do not remove the responsibility of being a parent. In film, PG stands for "Parental Guidance," which the MPAA defines as "may contain some content that parents might not like for their young children" - or, in basic Human, "parents, you need to think about this one; while on average it's believed to be okay, it still might not be a good idea for your particular larval humans." PG-13 (a rating bought and paid for by Steven Spielberg - no joke) was designed to split the difference between PG and R, but still indicate to parents "hey, you need to step in and make a decision here" and do so more strongly than PG. (Actual wording: "Parents strongly cautioned.")
Similarly, E10, by the definition, means "Content is generally suitable for all ages" - key phrase here being generally suitable. Once again, it's not going to be for all kids. There are going to be some who freak the crap out when they encounter a Reaper, but I'm going to bet that most of them will be going "Wow, cool!" or some variant thereof. Could we say that Subnautica should be rated T? Sure, that argument could be made. "May contain violence...minimal blood..." Sure, that sounds like Subnautica. Buuuuuut so does E10, which has the criteria "may contain more...mild violence." Is Subnautica "violence" or "mild violence?" Well, there's dangerous fish that'll bite and/or eat you, so that's kinda violent, but at the same time you don't actually see an act of violence and you respawn immediately with no death screen to traumatize the little tots. Violence or mild violence? And that's where the system breaks down: it's subjective. There's no checklist. No thresholds. It's all what the reviewers feel is appropriate, and that's why the MPAA and ESRB systems suck. (Although, to be fair, since the MPAA has been at it longer, they're a bit better at it. But it's still subjective.)
It's also worth pointing out that ratings systems don't work much of the time because parents are, to be perfectly blunt, nimwits. You're taking a 9-year-old to see Deadpool? "It's a comic book!" and "My children are very mature." Well, bucko, you're about to acid-test that hypothesis in a big way.
So, while people nowadays love to think that systems designed to help them can just do things for them, that's not what they're meant to do. Lane assist and smart brakes can warn you if you mentally drift, but it's not a frickin' copilot; you still have to drive. Antivirus software helps protect you from malware, but doesn't mean you can go clicking every damn email attachment you can find. (Much in the same way that vaccines help keep you safe, but it's inadvisable for you pick up the hobby of licking random doorknobs.)
And rating systems of all stripes are there to help parents make informed decisions, not be the parent. When one's little progeny start asking for a game, it's a pretty crappy parent that just looks at a rating label and makes the decision from there, especially in this day and age - look at the videos in the preview of Steam or Xbox. Watch some footage on YouTube for crying out loud. Be a bloody parent.
So where does that leave us vis-a-vis Subnautica? Well, right where we started. Since the whole thing is subjective, to some, the rating will be spot-on, to others it'll be too low. (And to some others, too high.) I've had the crabsquid nightmare, sure - does that mean it should be an M because it scared an adult? No; it means I'm more sensitive to that particular content than the average human. It's all the averages game, and on that litmus, to an informed parent making an informed decision, the rating is suitable as it stands. However, while the rating might be just fine as an E10, @zds still makes a valid point: the description should be worded in such a way that people understand it ain't all hunky-dory here on 4546B, and that there will be times that the game is going to try to scare the bahoogies off of you. Creepy environments, jumpscares, the feeling of being an anchovy in the shark tank - it might not succeed more than half the time, but it's going to try. And there's nothing wrong with the description reflecting that. In fact, it would aid parents in being parents - informing them so as to make an informed decision.
(And since I know it's rattling around in some heads out there: it's unlikely to damage sales much, if at all. Sure, you're going to lose sales to some kids - which would probably have resulted in negative reviews from teed-off parents anyway - but you'll pick up new adult sales from folk who realize it's not a kiddie game. Net-net, it'll probably balance out.)
TL;DR - Keep the rating. Adjust the description. Goldfish contain actual gold. The planet Mercury is going to hit your house. Your vacuum and microwave are plotting against you. And the NFL has approved the use of snipers this season. (If you jumped straight here, you deserve the confusion.)
Endless ocean wasn't non violent from what I remember, then again it did scare the crumpets from my plater. I was about 8-9 at the time (I know I was a rebellious kid playing an E-10) and only thing I temper from that game is;
Scared cave
Giant trench I can't go in (both in game and through fear)
Dolfin with a medal
Diving with a bloke and a whale showing up, followed by me running out thof room screaming.
But back on topic.... again, the whole ESRB rating system is pointless unless the pearents/guardians care to actually look at a game rating. And now a days many new mainstream games are choosing to go kid freindly instead of the manhunt levels of violence, like seriously name a new 18 game outside of "HATRED" and existing franchises?