Lithium Walls

MaxAstroMaxAstro Join Date: 2005-07-07 Member: 55451Members Posts: 136 Advanced user
One thing I've noticed in my most recent playthrough of the game is that lithium walls kinda trivialize basebuilding constraints.

Once you know where to find it, lithium is easy to acquire in very large quantities, and lithium walls are fairly cheap. The bonus they give also feels rather out of line with the rest of the building system, especially considering you can easily spam them on multipurpose rooms. Why bother building foundations or worrying about base size when plating a single multipurpose room gives enough HP to support a massive, mostly glass base? Usually what I will do, since I like having glass walls on the rooms I actually visit, is to add an unused MPR above or below my main room and cover it in lithium; never really have to worry about HP limits again.

No idea if this is intended to work the way it does or if/how it should be changed - just thought I'd share a thing a noticed while building my latest superbase. :)
"The world ends with you. If you want to enjoy life, expand your world. You gotta push your horizons out as far as they'll go." - Sanae Hanekoma
JozrozShuryCZmatijas_05robotflyAvimimusNansenEstebanLB01

Comments

  • NerdyEricNerdyEric Join Date: 2016-11-15 Member: 223876Members Posts: 192 Advanced user
    edited May 2017
    I've always believed as long as its not too powerful in a game, building should always be made cheaper and easier in a survival game. Because the people who do truly care about making things look nice will just be limited.
    Rainstorm
  • JozrozJozroz Sweden Join Date: 2017-05-15 Member: 230525Members Posts: 21 Fully active user
    Didn't they give a much smaller bonus in earlier versions? Back then the bonus was far too small, but now they've rather over-compensated.
    76561198061453791.png
  • FathomFathom Earth Join Date: 2016-07-01 Member: 219405Members Posts: 614 Advanced user
    What would you think of requiring a section to be fully reinforced in all possible places before getting a section dependent bonus to base integrity?

    Say, a T-Corridor (1 wall) gives 4, a I-Corridor (2 walls) 7, a MP-Room (4 walls in x set) 14 and a Moonpool (4 walls) 7. Deep sea bases would need a lot more reinforcements to stay tight.
  • MaxAstroMaxAstro Join Date: 2005-07-07 Member: 55451Members Posts: 136 Advanced user
    Requiring full reinforcement would encourage my current cheese instead of stopping it - I sometimes mix lithium and glass, that would just push me to have more random additional sections that just exist for reinforcement.

    The main thing that feels out of whack is foundations. I get that they are slightly earlier game, but considering foundations are more expensive and bigger, there's never really any reason to use them unless you need somewhere to put a planter.
    "The world ends with you. If you want to enjoy life, expand your world. You gotta push your horizons out as far as they'll go." - Sanae Hanekoma
    robotfly
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,329 Advanced user
    ... and you really don't need them for the Exterior Planter either, as long as you can find a fairly flat place to put one.

    B)
    0x6A7232
  • MaxAstroMaxAstro Join Date: 2005-07-07 Member: 55451Members Posts: 136 Advanced user
    ...Huh. I'm totally putting planters on top of my moonpool next game... XD
    "The world ends with you. If you want to enjoy life, expand your world. You gotta push your horizons out as far as they'll go." - Sanae Hanekoma
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,329 Advanced user
    MaxAstro wrote: »
    ...Huh. I'm totally putting planters on top of my moonpool next game... XD

    Heh...

    I'm gonna have to give that a go, just to see if...

    :D
  • scifiwriterguyscifiwriterguy Sector ZZ-9-Plural Z-α Join Date: 2017-02-14 Member: 227901Members Posts: 858 Advanced user
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    MaxAstro wrote: »
    ...Huh. I'm totally putting planters on top of my moonpool next game... XD

    Heh...

    I'm gonna have to give that a go, just to see if...

    :D

    Same here! Nothing says "well maintained future seabase" like a moonpool covered in weeds. ;)
    The poor mesmer. Beautiful fish. Too bad it's named after a jerk.
  • HiguideHiguide NJ Join Date: 2017-04-03 Member: 229385Members Posts: 55 Advanced user
    prefer it that way than always have to invest in titanium simply not to flood my base. plastering like 20 foundations just to simply do what 5 reinforced hulls can
  • sayerulzsayerulz oregon Join Date: 2015-04-15 Member: 203493Members Posts: 744 Advanced user
    What kind of imbecile would reinforce a seabase with one of the softest metals there is, and one that reacts violently with water? I can think of no worse material for underwater construction than one of the alkali metals.
  • FathomFathom Earth Join Date: 2016-07-01 Member: 219405Members Posts: 614 Advanced user
    sayerulz wrote: »
    What kind of imbecile would reinforce a seabase with one of the softest metals there is, and one that reacts violently with water? I can think of no worse material for underwater construction than one of the alkali metals.
    Probably the kind of imbecile who knows something about metallurgy and not just elemental chemistry.
    0x6A7232narfblatJacke
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 5,239 Advanced user
    sayerulz wrote: »
    What kind of imbecile would reinforce a seabase with one of the softest metals there is, and one that reacts violently with water? I can think of no worse material for underwater construction than one of the alkali metals.
    Fathom wrote: »
    sayerulz wrote: »
    What kind of imbecile would reinforce a seabase with one of the softest metals there is, and one that reacts violently with water? I can think of no worse material for underwater construction than one of the alkali metals.
    Probably the kind of imbecile who knows something about metallurgy and not just elemental chemistry.

    Hey, hey, hey! What happens when you have a room full of oxygen, and you release hydrogen into it, and there is an ignition source present? A pretty violent reaction.

    Ok, now what happens when we have Hydrogen and Oxygen in a stable configuration (H2O), and there is an ignition source present? Your ignition source fizzles out.

    See? Same idea. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in the analogy, anyone who knows about this stuff. @scifiwriterguy ?)
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games | How to easily update your drivers
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive | Solve options not saving or black screens by deleting options file | Possible workaround for Pause / Menu Bug | Rescue a trapped Seamoth / PRAWN
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Categorized list of mods, including 1st playthrough-friendly Hey, look, mods! ReShade mods Subnautica NexusMods
    Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
    Forum BBCode Rainbow text generator
  • narfblatnarfblat Utah, USA Join Date: 2016-05-15 Member: 216799Members Posts: 562 Advanced user
    edited June 2017
    Googling lithium titanium alloy, top result is this article, which lists a high strength-to-weight alloy(also contains magnesium, aluminum and scandium).

    Another thought, steel is created from iron and carbon. Carbon in its common form isn't strong at all, but in diamond form is rather strong(as long as you don't strike it certain ways)

    If the builder tool were possible, we could arrange the right metals into a very strong alloy. The only thing in doubt is whether it's going to be lithium with titanium, but science fiction takes certain liberties. :)
    How to clear your Cache, by 0x6A7232.
    How to use console commands. (Currently PC only, sorry)
    Stuck, and just want to most recent base/Cyclops? Use "Warpme" command. Want to get out of the ceiling? Press F1 and note your camera postion. First number is North/South, second number is up/down, and third is East/West. Reduce the 2nd number by 10, then use "warp x y z" (where x, y, and z are the position you want to be).
  • sayerulzsayerulz oregon Join Date: 2015-04-15 Member: 203493Members Posts: 744 Advanced user
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    sayerulz wrote: »
    What kind of imbecile would reinforce a seabase with one of the softest metals there is, and one that reacts violently with water? I can think of no worse material for underwater construction than one of the alkali metals.
    Fathom wrote: »
    sayerulz wrote: »
    What kind of imbecile would reinforce a seabase with one of the softest metals there is, and one that reacts violently with water? I can think of no worse material for underwater construction than one of the alkali metals.
    Probably the kind of imbecile who knows something about metallurgy and not just elemental chemistry.

    Hey, hey, hey! What happens when you have a room full of oxygen, and you release hydrogen into it, and there is an ignition source present? A pretty violent reaction.

    Ok, now what happens when we have Hydrogen and Oxygen in a stable configuration (H2O), and there is an ignition source present? Your ignition source fizzles out.

    See? Same idea. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in the analogy, anyone who knows about this stuff. @scifiwriterguy ?)


    If this analogy were to have any validity, titanium and lithium would have to react chemically with each other to bond and form a new chemical compound, rather than just a mixture, and they don't.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members Posts: 582 Advanced user
    sayerulz wrote: »
    If this analogy were to have any validity, titanium and lithium would have to react chemically with each other to bond and form a new chemical compound, rather than just a mixture, and they don't.
    Well, technically, Ti and Li do bond together in a alloy. They form metallic bonds.
    The 'e' is silent. BRING BACK "Great job not dying." !!!
  • sayerulzsayerulz oregon Join Date: 2015-04-15 Member: 203493Members Posts: 744 Advanced user
    Jacke wrote: »
    sayerulz wrote: »
    If this analogy were to have any validity, titanium and lithium would have to react chemically with each other to bond and form a new chemical compound, rather than just a mixture, and they don't.
    Well, technically, Ti and Li do bond together in a alloy. They form metallic bonds.

    I won't pretend to understand all of what was on that wikipedia page, although it looks like it could be interesting some other time. However, there is still no such thing as "Titanium lithide" or whatever such a compound might be called. Alloying it with titanium will not eliminate lithium's tendency to react with water.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members Posts: 582 Advanced user
    sayerulz wrote: »
    I won't pretend to understand all of what was on that wikipedia page, although it looks like it could be interesting some other time. However, there is still no such thing as "Titanium lithide" or whatever such a compound might be called. Alloying it with titanium will not eliminate lithium's tendency to react with water.
    Metals have their common properties because their atoms share their outer electrons in their mutual conductance band, which is metallic bonding. In most cases they have a shiny metallic hue, high conductance of electricity and heat, fairly ductile, and when ground to a powder appear dark or black.

    I investigated Lithium trying to find out its reactivity in alloys, primarily with Aluminium (most commonly with no more than 4.2% Li, although other concentrations are being researched). In those, the Lithium fits into gaps in the crystaline structure of Aluminium when formed from the molten state. While there are cautions about needing to shield the molten alloy from water vapour and the finely divided powder alloy (like Aluminium powder) can be explosive, for the alloy at common temperatures I found it described as a lack of resistance to corrosion rather than anything worse.

    I don't think it would be good to submerge Lithium alloys in salt water. It's not going to explode or burn, but it will corrode.
    The 'e' is silent. BRING BACK "Great job not dying." !!!
  • BDelacroixBDelacroix Florida Join Date: 2016-04-08 Member: 215511Members Posts: 90 Advanced user
    While we are all pushing for more realism.... I think we should be made to deal with hypoxia.. fiddle with mixed gases and have to experience real decompression.... Yea, because realism. In a game... on an alien planet... in a pretend future...
    Nansen
  • NansenNansen Join Date: 2017-06-02 Member: 230896Members Posts: 23 Advanced user
    The thing is that the ratio glass wall, reinforcement changes at different depth. In real life which is far less advanced than the Anterra tech in Subnautica we can build a glass dome at 20m depth no problem, it is not normal glass, and a concave form destributes the pressure. Yes it is not 100% accurate, but it is a video game, and personally i find it ok as it is.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 5,239 Advanced user
    Jacke wrote: »
    I don't think it would be good to submerge Lithium alloys in salt water. It's not going to explode or burn, but it will corrode.

    Maybe explains the rust on the Degasi bases?
    UWE Community guidelines | Guide to play in VR with Google Cardboard or Gear | Increase Subnautica view distance | Useful info to post with error reports | Recovery of corrupted saved games | How to easily update your drivers
    Crashing, lag problems? Or maybe your old save didn't get the latest update? Upload your saved game folder to help the devs troubleshoot, then try clearing your cache directories | Automatic Cache cleaning tool here | How to use the Debug Console | How to play any version of Subnautica using Steam | Tips for Subnautica beginners | Why can't the devs "just fix it"? - a modding session for you to educate yourself with Want more frames? Try adding this to your launch options: -window-mode exclusive | Solve options not saving or black screens by deleting options file | Possible workaround for Pause / Menu Bug | Rescue a trapped Seamoth / PRAWN
    Slow loading / textures popping in? Try moving Subnautica to an SSD | How to switch Subnautica to Experimental mode (clear cache afterwards) | How to run chkdsk on your drive | How to verify integrity of your game cache (in the "Installation" section) | Blue screens or computer freezing up? Try this fix (updates a corrupted DX10 compatibility file in the graphics driver that sometimes doesn't get updated)
    Subnautica launches in a tiny window? Use Task Manager to Maximize it (Thanks FlippingPower) | How to place your Moonpool so it connects correctly (includes diagrams) | Want to hang out with fellow players and the devs? Subnautica Discord server ← swing on by! | SuspensionRailway's Modding Emporium Categorized list of mods, including 1st playthrough-friendly Hey, look, mods! ReShade mods Subnautica NexusMods
    Humans don't crush at the depths you might think
    Joystick problems? | Xpadder | UJR / vJoy | JoyToKey | Get detailed info for troubleshooting: CPU-Z | GPU-Z | HWiNFO64 | Speccy | Pastebin | Recover the data on your crashed hard disk! | I'm a Total Geek
    Forum BBCode Rainbow text generator
  • xm234xm234 Poland Join Date: 2017-03-26 Member: 229207Members Posts: 42 Advanced user
    edited June 2017
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    Jacke wrote: »
    I don't think it would be good to submerge Lithium alloys in salt water. It's not going to explode or burn, but it will corrode.

    Maybe explains the rust on the Degasi bases?

    All you would really need to prevent the alloy from corroding, is to leave a thin layer of pure titanium on the surface. With how fabricators and builders work in Subnautica, it should be rather easy. I'm not sure, if it would be neccesary - TiO2 layer could shield the alloy just fine. (I might be wrong here)

    About the rust on Degasi bases, it could be explained by them using steel instead of titanium, since TiO2 looks totally different. Or the devs simply made a mistake :)
    0x6A7232
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,329 Advanced user
    edited June 2017
    ...or maybe it's not rust, but some microscopic organism that we are unaware of that is coating the base and eating the titanium.
    B)
    0x6A7232
  • kingkumakingkuma cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members Posts: 825 Advanced user
    Just as a note, the atomic structure for plastered would be TiLi4 and the technical name should be Titanium(IV) tetralithide
    I am Kingkuma, Leader of the PH/SP , Slayer of Cuddlefish, Conspiracy theorist , Humanizer of warpers , Shifter of sands , Creator of Fanart , Enemy of Crabsquids , Hater of Lava Larvae , Winner of the great stalker bar brawl of 2017 , Creator of flowcharts , Killer of time , Romancer of warpers ,and head designer for the ALTERRA 5th airborne division.

    I have a webcomic. It involves Tsundere Nereids, Canadians, magic, girls wielding crossbows, and possibly Scott Pilgrim. It updates every Wednesday at 4 pm EST. Check it out. (No, please, check it out.)

    Also: Stop hating on the warpers. They have feelings too, ya'know.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members Posts: 582 Advanced user
    kingkuma wrote: »
    Just as a note, the atomic structure for plastered would be TiLi4 and the technical name should be Titanium(IV) tetralithide
    This isn't a covalent or ionic compound, this is a metal alloy bound by metallic bonds into a crystallized structure. It's mostly Ti with some Li introduced into the crystals to change the overall properties. Having about 1 Li to 10 Ti by mass (assuming fromo the blueprint) is about 3 TI atoms to 2 Li atoms, which is way more Lithium than is found in current and even experimental Lithium alloys.
    The 'e' is silent. BRING BACK "Great job not dying." !!!
  • xm234xm234 Poland Join Date: 2017-03-26 Member: 229207Members Posts: 42 Advanced user
    Jacke wrote: »
    kingkuma wrote: »
    Just as a note, the atomic structure for plastered would be TiLi4 and the technical name should be Titanium(IV) tetralithide
    This isn't a covalent or ionic compound, this is a metal alloy bound by metallic bonds into a crystallized structure. It's mostly Ti with some Li introduced into the crystals to change the overall properties. Having about 1 Li to 10 Ti by mass (assuming fromo the blueprint) is about 3 TI atoms to 2 Li atoms, which is way more Lithium than is found in current and even experimental Lithium alloys.

    I don't think, there is pure lithium in those nodes, since this metal is highly reactive. (as mentioned above)
    So instead of pure lithium, we seem to gather minerals containing Li bound in one of its many compounds. Having that in mind, our magigal plasteel contains maybe about 1% lithium, which should be enough to greatly affect microstructure of said alloy.
    Fathom
  • FathomFathom Earth Join Date: 2016-07-01 Member: 219405Members Posts: 614 Advanced user
    And even if you happen to have reaction of lithium in the alloy, you'd only get surface corrosion as titanium isn't particularly porous.
Sign In or Register to comment.