Smart Players can craft ALL TOOLS with ONE BATTERY
KuBaN
Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
This is somewhat of a bug/suggestion/discussion, so not sure where it really should be.
Craft one battery, then craft a Flashlight, use up all the battery, then remove the battery, then use it in your next recipe to craft (for example) a Scanner. The Scanner has a completely charged battery in it. You've now crafted two tools with one battery, and recharged that battery, way before you've conceivably built a base, found the battery charger blueprint, and rounded up the materials to build a charger or two batteries.
Sure, you've ultimately got to craft multiple batteries to conveniently use each one without swapping back and forth, but in the meantime, you can have every tool available to you way before it seems like you were intended to (since in theory you should have had to farm for enough copper to craft as many batteries as you have tools).
Solutions
Thoughts?
Sidenote: Most recipes require a battery as a crafting requirement. The repair tool doesn't require one, which effectively let you craft a free battery. I get, no one's mass producing welders, and it's a challenge enough to find crashfish powder, but still, an inconsistency worth pointing out.
Craft one battery, then craft a Flashlight, use up all the battery, then remove the battery, then use it in your next recipe to craft (for example) a Scanner. The Scanner has a completely charged battery in it. You've now crafted two tools with one battery, and recharged that battery, way before you've conceivably built a base, found the battery charger blueprint, and rounded up the materials to build a charger or two batteries.
Sure, you've ultimately got to craft multiple batteries to conveniently use each one without swapping back and forth, but in the meantime, you can have every tool available to you way before it seems like you were intended to (since in theory you should have had to farm for enough copper to craft as many batteries as you have tools).
Solutions
- Removing the battery requirement and fabricating the tool without a battery has the problem of misleading new players into thinking they won't need a battery (simple fix, add a "Battery Sold Separately" tooltip in the recipe) until after they've crafted it.
- Adding the raw materials for a battery (x1 copper, x2 acid mushroom) as required materials and spawning the tools with batteries solves the battery up-cycle abuse, but undervalues any batteries you may have already crafted or found in chests.
- Transferring the charge % of the battery that's being used to craft the tool fixes the recharge exploit, but not the "one battery to craft them all" issue.
Thoughts?
Sidenote: Most recipes require a battery as a crafting requirement. The repair tool doesn't require one, which effectively let you craft a free battery. I get, no one's mass producing welders, and it's a challenge enough to find crashfish powder, but still, an inconsistency worth pointing out.
Comments
I am, however, fine with batteries being recharged by fabrication of tools. I don't deny it's an exploit (one I gladly make use of in early game), but it's not all that illogical when the fabricator makes charged batteries to begin with. The fabricator as an indirect recharger nicely fills up the gap until the battery recharger is acquired, imo.
Also while on the subject, I'd like to point out the processing of fish. You can obviously cure fish vs cooking them so they stay fresh while moving about, but live fish stay alive indefinitely when stored in lockers, no water needed... shouldn't they die and rot?. Also, you can take fish that were killed by heat, poison clouds or Seamoth impacts (oops) and let them rot to maximum negative values... But if they're cooked or cured, they'll return to their maximum positive values, just as if they were still alive.
Now this happens as the game tracks items with 'progress' meters, such as power values or fish freshness. Items that don't have them (such as normal fish) don't change values they don't have. Also when crafting, the game just checks to see if you have the base items and crafts the end result, whether the quality of the base items would logically affect the result or not.
Now, it doesn't bother me at all now, but for the final retail launch I would like to see this changed. While I know this is more work for the devs to have to deal with, I feel it would make the game more realistic. An Old Dead Peeper should be inedible when cooked, and harm the player if he eats it. A Power Cell should have the average power level of the two Batteries that made it. I hate to be a nag, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.
I'm more concerned with the design/experience ramifications than the canonical logic of it. It's a convenient exploit, but not an intended one. If your battery dies, you should have to craft a new one, unless you have a Charger. That's what makes the Recharger useful; you no longer have to keep crafting batteries. The disadvantages are: you have to build a base, you have to build the Battery Charger, you have to power the base, and you have to wait a good bit of time for it to recharge. I'll cede the fact that you do eventually have to build a base and power it for a million other reasons, so we can ignore the cost of all of that and ignore that this exploit potentially alters the timeline of when a player would choose to build a base.
If you can just circumvent all of that by crafting Flashlights at the cost of just 1 glass and INSTANTLY get a recharged battery, why would you ever waste the Computer Chip and the Copper Wire on a recharger? Those are resources better spent on a multitude of other structures, until later when you're swimming in those resources. Recharger rendered obsolete.
But I think the problem with removing storing live fish is that's a big change to put into Subnautica this late in the development. Right now it's not too much of a burden hunting for fish as you can easily get an excess that you can stockpile. But if you couldn't store fish to cook and eat late, that means you'd have to cure them all. And that means more salt would be needed and it would be a slightly more complex start to the game, especially for a new player.
Because I can repurpose a computer chip and copper wire when used in furniture. Anything spent on tools is Lost Forever. And in the given example, quartz/glass is a valuable material. Plus a battery charger requires nothing more of me than energy and can accommodate four batteries at once, while having to go out to collect materials to fabricate anything (+ dispose of the product later) as a recharge method is a hassle at one battery already.
I don't agree the gameplay consequences are that big a deal because laziness is a powerful motivating factor. So's impatience, but once you've got about six batteries, which you easily get from looting wrecks, exchanging them in the battery recharger from time to time voids the waiting period. I know I don't bother with the fabricator recharge option anymore when I've got a functional collection because it loses its appeal compared to the battery recharger by then.
If the fabricator recharge option would be removed, however, I need UWE to concurrently make plants regrow. Because as it is, the reason I like the exploit is because I loathe to destroy the environment and it takes to midgame (unless you force-play to the island early) before you can farm water plants. The exploit allows me to minimize the damage I cause.
As for the Battery being recharged, technically the Power used to fabricate the Tool does this. What if using a depleted (or anywhere between 0-99%) Battery for the blueprint resulted in an equal amount of Power used by the Battery Charger to charge it being added to the cost?
I sort of trust the wiki when it says the Battery Charger takes 11 minutes to charge one Battery and uses 20 Power doing so. Now that's a bit of a whopper for your little Lifepod to take all at once, but the cost will vary depending on the charge level as it does with the Battery Charger. This way the energy is accounted for, neutralizing that part of the exploit.
I don't think you'll be able to get away with not allowing an empty Battery to be used but you can put a price to it. Would that be reasonable?
As for the repair tool not needing a battery, I think sometimes it's ok for a recipe not to include every item (glass for light on seaglide,) especially at the beginning of the game where we already need to make plenty of batteries and the collection of the crafish powder is challenge enough. Copper and Shrooms are both readily available so not having to click three more buttons doesn't really ruin my experience.
Power level carry over in batteries while crafting i can support though, seems fair and reasonable.
That's what I always assumed that the Aquariums were for (not the Alien Containment); a way to 'store' fish with the exchange of having a small storage - and then later upgrading to the AC. I've personally never made an Aquarium since Storage works as it does, then the AC will propagate fish indefinitely after. While I can get behind Storage Lockers storing stuff on a 'quantum level' (they don't decay) it renders Aquariums as pointless... not to mention the fact that cooked fish will decay and then rot in Storage, while live fish never changes.
I'm of the opinion that all organic stuff should decay unless they are Cured, but either way they should all react the same way. Having a split decision on both sides will cause more questions once 1.0 goes live, I think.
Problem there is that I've never been able to build an aquarium inside a corridor. Is that supposed to be possible (I tried last previous stable)? Because if it's MProom only, that means you have to wait a pretty while before you can store live fish.
I've kinda been wanting a stasis fridge for a while as an excuse/means to keep food/fuel from dying and rotting. Could easily be a remodel of the current wall lockers. Throw in a lead-based wall locker for uranium & uranite and you could use both perks as upgrades for Seamoth/PRAWN storage modules too.
So What?
If you don't like using a particular function in the game, then don't.
This is a Solitary Player Game...
Stop trying to make the game into something that only fits your particular playstyle, you ARE NOT the only one playing the game.
Some folks may like that function, some may not, use it or don't, but "Less Options" is not a great way to draw in and keep people playing ones game.
You can recharge standard Alkaline batteries. The process just isn't efficient with the way that particular tech is implemented, and part of the discharge process isn't chemically reversible. They do however, have special rechargeable alkaline batteries that have these problems solved, so... in the futre, it's not inconceivable that any sensible battery that would be fabricated would do so with rechargeable chemistry.
http://www.tested.com/tech/1992-can-you-really-recharge-standard-alkaline-batteries/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_alkaline_battery
Therefore, it makes perfect sense that the fabricator would be able to revert any dead batteries to a charged state when used in crafting. (Although why it can't be used as an instant battery charger, I dunno, lol. Maybe to charge you for fabricating a battery charger when you get back to Alterra space?)
That's a pretty weak argument. "Don't fix things that make no sense and probably don't work the way they were intended because someone might like the option of abusing that loophole"... I'm sure there's a good tax code joke here, but whatever.
Personally I like the first suggestion - remove the batteries from all the crafting recipes, and you craft the tools without batteries. Then you can craft as many or as few batts as you want / think you can get by with.
This would also fix the floodlight exploit where you build / deconstruct floodlights repeatedly to fully charge batteries.
IF we were dealing with the IRS here, you might have a valid argument, but we're not.
It's A GAME.
And a Single Player Game at that.
What one person does in their particular game, has Absolutely No Effect one what another person does in their game.
As I have said before, stop trying to make the game in your preferred image, you are not the only one playing it...
Having the option to use or not use a particular function of the game, is the best way to accommodate any and all players that the Dev's most likely would want using Their creation.
Limiting the players choices doesn't bring in more folks, it drives them away.
If you can't figure out a way to get around NOT using something in the game, then that's on you, penalizing others should not be an option.
One way to make it work would be inserting the crafting requirements of the battery on the tool recipes. Instead of needing a battery, any tool would require 2 shrooms and copper.
Meh, the only way to see if it sticks is if it is added on a update and tested. I can't say exactely if I agree with this change or not: testing is required to see the viability.
Wait, this is a thing?? Hmm, I must test this out the next time I play... for research, I mean! Totally not as an exploit...
You know, What OP suggested said is valid. If these are exploits (not confirming nor denying
If the Fabricator used, say, a 54% charge battery, then the tool made with this battery should come with one at 54% charge imo. problem solved
Same goes for the Powercell exploit. the total charge of the Powercell should be the sum of the charges of the 2 batteries its made of I.E -- if one of the battery is at 55% charge and the second at 45% charge then the resulting Powercell should be at 100/200 energy when made (50% charge)
Being a single-player game does not somehow invalidate all discussion about fixing glaring exploits / bugs. And suggesting that said exploits should be fixed is not the same as trying to make the game all about one's self or one's own preferences.
If I were to say, write a chess game, and my game allowed you to do things that the rules of chess definitely do not allow, like move a pawn sideways, people would be completely within their rights to complain, even if my chess game were single-player only. Because it's not right. If exploits were "whatever, who cares, do as you like" space, then why did Skyrim get patched to close the loophole where you could read the Ogma Infinium (I probably got the name wrong, don't care) over and over again and instantly reach max level? You're talking like people are trampling on your rights or something because they dare to suggest that exploits are exploits and aught to be fixed. That's absurd.
...So the Ogma Infinium exploit was also designed into the game from the get-go? Also, Subnautica development isn't even done yet, so you can't really call it a closed book, it's still being written. :shrug:
Heh...
I don't even know what that is.
I took 5 seconds out of my life to search this on Google as a skyrim exploit for gaining xp.
It took 30 seconds to type this on my phone though
In context, if you read the post before your post (which is what I was responding to):
And, when in doubt,
...get Google out.
I haven't played Skyrim in about two years and, I don't go actively looking for exploits to the games I do play.
Call me old fashioned but, purposely cheating, isn't my forte.
I didn't even realize that the battery thing was an exploit until you pointed it out.
I just assumed that the fabricator somehow reenergized the whole new unit being built, since it is pulling energy from my base to create the things I want.
Perhaps instead of using just ten energy units, it should use 15 or 20 when a used battery is involved.
I love your account picture very much, makes me smile everytime i see it
that is all
FTFY