ns2_origin

pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by NatureGermany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
edited April 2017 in Mapping
- Remake of ns1_origin -

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=859097492

I put together some NS1->NS2 comparison shots for anyone interested or who never played the NS1 version
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I always wanted to make this remake. Even asked Cadaver for permission years ago.
The idea, layout, etc was growing in my head the last months and I finally started like two weeks ago.

I'm using a kinda veil-layout as blueprint, because obviously the NS1 version with all the vents between hive locations won't work.
I will add almost all vents tho, except the exit into marine start.
Edit: Changed to a kinda caged-layout to improve balance for aliens.

NS1-Overview:
n5IPtyh.jpg


Current Overview:
8A0FF747175827972465ADAE1085D04841691CC8
Post edited by pSyk0mAn on


BicsumSupaFredThe_Welsh_WizardKasharicIeptBarakatBeigeAlertJamezorgObraxis0x6A72322coughAntonintwiliteblueGhoulofGSG9McGlaspiemoultanoHandschuh
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Comments

  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 923 Advanced user
    I would recommend to not have the vent leading into marine base though
    return to zero
    Kasharic
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Double looks problematic to me.

    The distance from marine base to double is almost natural RT distance, which means that it will fall into marine hands most of the time.

    I think you should either:
    A ) scratch double and add a ventilation hive natural RT in coolant / generator
    B ) greatly increase the marine start to cargo distance by blocking the industrial to cargo path and rerouting the lava catwalk to cargo path to increase distance
    C ) keep cargo as marine double, but increase computer lab and laser drilling natural RT distance beyond the usual natural RT distance

    Furnace spawn lane
    jiklITl.jpg
    Biodome spawn lane
    kGQvSNu.jpg
    The_Welsh_WizardKasharic
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Great to see a new map coming. But I agree with Bicsum, double res node could be a problem here.
    Kasharic
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Thanks for the effort Bicsum.
    Those spawn lanes mean where teams meet first time in regards to travel time?

    I checked travel times as non-sprinting rifle marine and compared them to Veil.
    In Veil marines need ~30 seconds to Nano, here marines need 25s via Industrial and 30s via Drilling.
    Travel times to naturals are ~12s.

    I'd like to keep the layout as close to the original as possible, so I'd rather prefer to move industrial and cargo closer to enemy territory or hive locations closer to the middle.
    Also keep in mind cargo and industrial are more alien friendly compared to nano in veil due to vents and elevations.

    If things won't work out at all I can still change it.

    Edit: Well, I'm glad you brought it up. I rechecked alien travel times and the hive locations are a few seconds too far away for sure.
    Idk what i did there lol, cause I checked first when I made the floor layout.


  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Do you have workshop link?
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Nope, the map isnt playable yet.

    I have a few mapping questions tho:

    -Is it possible to rotate the skybox or would i have to create a new cinematic (sun location; dont wanna rotate the map) ?
    -Vertices still go off the grid, when you keep transforming and copying the same faces and cause these tiny flickering cracks. Is there a solution?
    -I can't properly search textures in the browser unless I remove "^materials/", but then I also get textures of props and other unwanted stuff.


  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,675 Advanced user
    I read in the designer notes a while ago (which I can't find now) that the map lanes were colored in a way to help prevent players from getting lost so easily, it would be cool if you kept to that design.

    Other than that, this is a dream come true and I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays.

    XBXPiuYm.jpg
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,817 admin
    edited February 2017
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    Nope, the map isnt playable yet.

    I have a few mapping questions tho:

    -Is it possible to rotate the skybox or would i have to create a new cinematic (sun location; dont wanna rotate the map) ?
    -Vertices still go off the grid, when you keep transforming and copying the same faces and cause these tiny flickering cracks. Is there a solution?
    -I can't properly search textures in the browser unless I remove "^materials/", but then I also get textures of props and other unwanted stuff.

    Unfortunately, no. A new skybox is needed if you want to rotate it.

    Make sure, when you're transforming, if you want to keep it relative to the grid you're on, use the "Move Origin Cycle (Previous)" option from the Edit menu (with the move tool). This makes the translation tool itself snap to the grid before you start dragging, so it doesn't force everything you've got to go off grid to put itself back on grid. Default is "," (comma) I believe...

    Put a space between "^materials/" and your search terms :) By typing immediately after the "/", you're specifying a sub-folder to restrict results to.
    Kasharic
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    -Is it possible to rotate the skybox or would i have to create a new cinematic (sun location; dont wanna rotate the map) ?

    I would just CTRL + A and rotate the map (with texture lock on if needed) until it is situated the way you want it to be.
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    -Vertices still go off the grid, when you keep transforming and copying the same faces and cause these tiny flickering cracks. Is there a solution?

    I use snap to grid, but it can be very risky in some situations... also, don't forget that you can weld vertices together to avoid certain overlap issues.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    I read in the designer notes a while ago (which I can't find now) that the map lanes were colored in a way to help prevent players from getting lost so easily, it would be cool if you kept to that design.
    Yes, I'm planning to use different colors like the original.

    Thanks BeigeAlert, that space so simple yet genious lmao.
    I didn't mean the moving of complex geometry tho. More like copy and pasting geometry over and over, scaling and changing it. Eventually you'll notice coordinates like xx.99 or yy.01
    ..it had something to do with meter and inches stuff in spark, if I recall correctly.



    IeptBarakat
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Make sure, when you're transforming, if you want to keep it relative to the grid you're on, use the "Move Origin Cycle (Previous)" option from the Edit menu (with the move tool). This makes the translation tool itself snap to the grid before you start dragging, so it doesn't force everything you've got to go off grid to put itself back on grid. Default is "," (comma) I believe...

    Oh... my... god.

    Why is it set to comma/period... when rotation is set to apostrophe/semi-colon!

    I've been living without this for so long! #SadPanda
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 Advanced user
    great to see you back and making a map, of course and help you need please don't hesitate to ask!
    pSyk0mAn
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    Those spawn lanes mean where teams meet first time in regards to travel time?

    No, no, it's where (I guess) the marines will most likely try to contain the aliens in order to win. It's where the marines are able to lane block enough ground in order to not let the aliens get three techpoint or more than 3 RTs, while having at least 4 RTs themselves.
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    I checked travel times as non-sprinting rifle marine and compared them to Veil.
    In Veil marines need ~30 seconds to Nano, here marines need 25s via Industrial and 30s via Drilling.
    Travel times to naturals are ~12s.

    I'd like to keep the layout as close to the original as possible, so I'd rather prefer to move industrial and cargo closer to enemy territory or hive locations closer to the middle.
    Also keep in mind cargo and industrial are more alien friendly compared to nano in veil due to vents and elevations.

    If things won't work out at all I can still change it.

    Edit: Well, I'm glad you brought it up. I rechecked alien travel times and the hive locations are a few seconds too far away for sure.
    Idk what i did there lol, cause I checked first when I made the floor layout.

    I'm trying to wrap my head around why Veils double works and I think it is because of its dead end design. Pushing nano means not blocking lanes , which makes you prone to base rushes.

    A double res node in a central / hub room design means that pushing equals lane blocking. Like: you have to lane block industrial antechamber anyway, so you might as well push cargo double.


    Post edited by Bicsum on
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & QA Lead, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,986 admin
    Great to see you working on a map again @pSyk0mAn - please shout if you need anything. :smile:

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

    NS2 Discord: https://discord.gg/0TKQwZWu7JEPeAgW

    Subnautica Discord: https://discord.gg/subnautica

    pSyk0mAnBeigeAlert
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    @Bicsum: You might be right. Lets see how lane blocking works out with all these vents around.


    BicsumBeigeAlert
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 1,024 Advanced user
    The man, the myth, the legend! Good to see you at it again.
    BeigeAlert
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 938 Advanced user
    Ooh, I'm excited for you taking on this one, @pSyk0mAn :D

    Killer Monkey did this version of the map a long time ago that we played as SCC regularly for a while. Might be worth looking at (if you haven't yet) to see some of his choices.


    pSyk0mAn
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 427 Advanced user
    May i ask you to preserve Lava Catwalk and vents above leaving to cargo?

    Thanks. :)
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
    IeptBarakat
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    I kinda finished Lava Catwalk the last days
    yZoaqxY.jpg

    ..and I'm planning to keep those vents above the hallway to cargo. Not sure about the vent connection from Lava to Industrial tho.


    BeigeAlertKasharic
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,675 Advanced user
    Doesn't look like it from the cargo screenshot, but will the northern coolant/genmon/vent area retain it's lower elevation?

    I know NS2 can't suffice with ladders but a ramp or staircase leading down to coolant monitoring would keep a lot of the flavor of the original map as opposed to the vertical sameness NS2 maps generally suffers with.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    I'd love to, but Onos and Gorge need to get into Cargo from Vent easily.
    They will retain their lower elevation tho, but with stairs instead of an elevator shaft.


    IeptBarakat
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    This is coming along nice and fast, its great to see, I'm looking forward to seeing it in game and testing it in general.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    Bicsum
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 427 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Hey pSyk0mAn, if you need some help with prop placement for jumps and or chain jumping, i can be of assistance. Nostalgia trips will ensue i promise :) and if you do decide to put some vents in and around, do you think you could level them at just enough height to allow for marines to gain the traditional speed boost? <3<br>
    I'll play around with some content creation and attempt to make some holograms.
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
    pSyk0mAnBicsum
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    This is not the inspiration I need right now to return to mapping, @pSyk0mAn. I need time off, damnit!

    Looks pretty cool.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    BeigeAlertIeptBarakatKasharicpSyk0mAn
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    Zavaro wrote: »
    This is not the inspiration I need right now to return to mapping, @pSyk0mAn. I need time off, damnit!

    Looks pretty cool.

    No time off for you, get mapping! ;)
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    Archie wrote: »
    Hey pSyk0mAn, if you need some help with prop placement for jumps and or chain jumping, i can be of assistance. Nostalgia trips will ensue i promise :) and if you do decide to put some vents in and around, do you think you could level them at just enough height to allow for marines to gain the traditional speed boost? <3</div>
    What's the min. height for vents to get the speed boost?
    Thanks for the offer, I'm open for these kind of suggestions once the map is playtested.

    Kinda finished Furnace. Too much symmetry due to copy paste, I know lol, but its good enuff for playtest.
    fjKOb2Z.jpg
    y2fPvGv.jpg




    IeptBarakatKasharicVetinari
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 794 Advanced user
    aaahhh... memories... can't wait to play it! x)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    Aah man, i'm so hyped about this, its great to see someone working at a high speed. I'm loving this! XD
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Wow, you do not fuck around. At this rate the map should be ready to be playtested in two or three weeks.
    BeigeAlert
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