Changing the order of the lifeforms to gorge -> skulk -> lerk really needs to happen. In a game just today, a new player went gorge, promptly died, typed "this is bullshit" and quit the game.
I feel like society failed this man in his upbringing more than the game did.
Changing the order of the lifeforms to gorge -> skulk -> lerk really needs to happen. In a game just today, a new player went gorge, promptly died, typed "this is bullshit" and quit the game.
Thank you for the affirmation of that idea.
I have also though that in addition to that, making gorges free might also simplify things but it would be more difficult to change than just adjusting the gui.
SamusDroidColoradoJoin Date: 2013-05-13Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited December 2015
I've never understood the point of changing the order of lifeforms, it makes no sense to me. Why put gorge before skulk when you have to use res to go gorge but skulk is free...
Changing the order of the lifeforms to gorge -> skulk -> lerk really needs to happen. In a game just today, a new player went gorge, promptly died, typed "this is bullshit" and quit the game.
Thank you for the affirmation of that idea.
I have also though that in addition to that, making gorges free might also simplify things but it would be more difficult to change than just adjusting the gui.
Why would changing one number be more difficult than moving the order of GUIs?
Changing the order of the lifeforms to gorge -> skulk -> lerk really needs to happen. In a game just today, a new player went gorge, promptly died, typed "this is bullshit" and quit the game.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
The readyroom need an some informations about the current gamestate.
If vets joining a server and a round is already running, they press tab to see the current roundtime and scores.
This plus the current kills giving them an idea of whats going on.
And after going spec (some servers blocking this) they already see that there is no point in joining the round for example.
Imagine a new player got slaughtered a multiple times on a server, so he switched server and joining into this round only to get slaughtered again.
Its just not fun to join a alienteam for example surrounded by exos and arcs.
So you join into a already lost round.
And on top of that you losing skillpoints for this already lost round you playing maybe 30 sec.
Changing the order of the lifeforms to gorge -> skulk -> lerk really needs to happen. In a game just today, a new player went gorge, promptly died, typed "this is bullshit" and quit the game.
Thats a real stupid idea, sorry.
How about Lerks 1st, new players tend to walk around as Lerks.
Or Fades 1st, new players as Fade running in, swiping like idiots and die within seconds.
Same with onos.
You know, there really dumb players out there.
In every game.
And these player are so dumb, no dumbing down in the world would help them.
If you dont know how to play a lifeform, its ok. Thats part of learning.
And if the player of the example just leave after 1st death.
Well, NS2 might be the wrong game for him.
Happen.
IxianDenmarkJoin Date: 2014-03-16Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
Managing player expectations hasnt been done very well. I've seen green players ragequit because the "shadow things" just insta-kills them when they are 0/1 marines. 0/1 marines are not supposed to kill fades really. Highlighting the asymetrical nature, and the fact that some combats cannot be won, could have a positive effect.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
Changing the order of the lifeforms is intended to show the strength in combat of a lifeform... currently rookies are evolving to gorge thinking they are upgrading to a stronger lifeform (an easy mistake to make considering the order the lifeforms are in and the cost of res needed to upgrade)
By changing the order, it will feel like you're taking a "step down" in combat effectiveness... pnewbies will be less likely to jump straight to gorge expecting a stronger lifeform... Also, adding descriptions to the in game evolve UI will help stop these mistakes from happening too.
so yes, changing the order is a good idea.
@Ixian nothing can really be done about that, if a fade is near enough insta killing then maybe they are too high skilled to be going against rookies (many suggestions about server limitations etc have been brought up to try to limit it though) or the rookie is just oblivious (more likely) in which case encouragement and people explaining what the game is like is the only real way to solve it at the moment... if the rookie isn't willing to stick around and listen to people, there isn't really anything you can do about it.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I have just spent a good few hours over the last few days playing with entire servers of rookies, and when they were playing Aliens, 'this is bullshit' is the most common phrase I heard from rookies.
One of the hardest jobs I had explaining was the Gorge is not an upgrade, it is not a battle unit, it is a builder and support unit. The most common response was if it isn't an upgrade why does it show as being better than a skulk in the menu.
They have no comprehension when they are in obs range and can be seen through walls.
They can't understand the concept of aliens hiding and ambushing, they've seen the films, aliens can just rush and over power marines. (Blame Aliens, Starship troopers etc)
I have been playing NS for years, and I am not very good at the game, but when you see rookies trying to grasp the concepts of the game, you can see right away why they constantly scream about 'bullshit mechanics' and 'hackers'.
After spending this time dedicating myself to trying to teach rookies, the problems in-game become glaringly obvious, but there are too many to be completely solved.
I don't hold out much hope of NS2 ever drastically increasing it's retention rate because there are too many fundamental issues for rookies that need to be addressed, and the return on that financially can't be worth it.
This isn't so much about teaching rookies, this is an issue of the mechanics are really messed up.
NS2 was always meant to be designed as a more accessible game than NS, hence why elements of combat were included, buying your own weapons as marines for example. I feel the game we have ended up with is actually infinitely less accessible. There is no cohesion between the lifeforms, and so many hidden or just illogical, to a rookie, mechanics that the game just ends up being 'bullshit'
I have come across so many rage quitting rookies, and this is on games where I am the only non rookie, and all I am doing is helping others play and learn the game.
Tutor and teach people all you want, it's the mechanics of the game that are causing the problems with new players.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I see your point. But I do not believe mechanics should be dumbed down to much in favour of rookie ease.
If they can not phatom a obs can work through walls, well.. that is one mechanic I would not want to lose, for example.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I am not saying the mechanics need dumbing down, however, they do need rethinking and revising on a scope that I think is beyond simple tweaks to fix the game. There is no coherence among the aliens, the classes, abilities etc, and thats the main problem.
The obs was just a point about the little things we take for granted, that new players have absolutely no idea of what it means. I mean, why would a cool effect on your body mean you are visible to marines through a wall? There is no reason for them to think that.
The obs thing could be solved with a message advising, when you see this effect on your screen, you are in range of a Marine obs and can be seen through walls.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2015
That why i post my idea about a new trailer in another thread wich explains the alien-lifeforms and how to ambush, etc. http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2263468/#Comment_2263468
This trailer should be ingame also and it should be forced at 1st start.
So people can "learn" things before they klick the buy button.
There some simple rules people forget when playing skulk:
In every fukin shooter out there you have to be silent when you try to ambush someone
You dont run straight into 4 enemys alone.
Did i mention that some players are dumb?
When they run around as skulk and making these loud footsteps, do they really believe noone can hear them?
When they cant kill a single marine alone cause bitespam all day long, do they really believe they can kill 4?
This doesnt work in ANY shooter, why are they trying this in NS2?
When i see 4 soldiers on an open field in a WW2 shooter and i have only a knife, it doesnt make any sense to attack them over the long field.
But people doing exact this as skulk.
Nonstop.
Yeah "bullshit mechanic"
And the Shoppage says: "NS2 is an FPS/RTS hybrid"
What is the most important thing in EVERY fukin RTs game?
Right,
Ressources.
So could it be that a hybrid game with RTs elements is about ressources also?
Hmm, maybe.
Thats why i dont understand that new players dont understand that its better to flank 4 marines and bite ressources instead of trying to kill these 4 alone.
Did i mention that some, aehm. yes.
The role of the gorge is not well communicated right now. This is evident in the Polaris videos where half the team was often gorge. It is also evidenced in public games where rookie aliens evolve gorge fairly often. Looking at the upgrade menu it is no surprise that rookies don't understand the role of the gorge.
Right now the gorge appears to be an upgrade to a rookie, when in reality it is at best a sidegrade to a skulk. It looks like an upgrade because the order of progression. The upgrade menu is skulk, gorge, lerk, fade, onos. This looks like Skulk < Gorge < Lerk < Fade < Onos. This wrong progression is further progressed by the pres costs. A gorge costs 8 res, therefor it must be better than a free skulk. A fade costs 30 pres, therefor must be better than a lerk. A fade is better than a lerk, but a gorge is not better than a skulk.
There are 3 ways to better communicate the role of the gorge.
Make better role descriptions in the upgrade menu.
Change the position of the gorge in the upgrade menu.
Make gorges free.
1) Making a better text description would be the smallest change out of all 3 mentioned. This could be done for all lifeforms for greater effect. I don't think anyone really disagree's with this so I don't see a reason to discuss it further.
2) Changing the menu to Gorge < Skulk < Lerk < Fade < Onos would better communicate the gorges role. It is not better than a skulk. It is not an upgrade. It is at best a side grade but often a downgrade from a skulk. It is a support class.
This new order would better communicate the role. Some say this would be unnecessary if there were better text descriptions. Text descriptions only go so far. Changing the order in the evolve menu would be visual and not need text. A gorge would look like it is worse than a skulk. Changing the role and having a better text description would complement each other really well.
Some say this idea is a L2P issue. That is correct. The game can make it a little easier to L2P though. This would be an incredibly simple fix that would no effect on veterans. Are you as a veterans actually going to care if a gorge moved to the left? Do you even gorge?
I got this idea by playing the game Unvanquished, which is a slightly similar alien vs marines asymmetrical shooter. It is a Tremulous remake. In this game they have a builder support class similar to the gorge. In their upgrade menu the gorge equivalent is before the skulk equivalent. I would have figured it out in 2 minutes that the gorge equivalent was not fit for combat, but the order they had the menu in I realized it in 2 seconds. That little bit of visual communication went a long way.
3) Unvanquished also makes the gorge equivalent free. It is set up as a side grade support class to the skulk equivalent. I like the idea of making our ns2 gorges free, but I know it is not that simple. A free gorge would solidify the communication of the gorges role.
A free gorge would have large ripple effects and would require a rebalance. I like the idea of a free gorge but I am not sure yet if it is realistic. Because I don't think I can adequately describe how this might be a beneficial change beyond better communication I won't argue for its inclusion.
@SamusDroid, you are correct just changing the pres value of a gorge to 0 would take 30 seconds. It would be that easy. The problem with that a free gorge would have large ripple effects on balance. Bile bomb and tunnels would both become more overpowered than they already are. Tunnels could easily be balanced by adjusting their pres cost, but bilebomb would not be so easy. It would take a few weeks, at least, to playtest this one balance change. In comparison nothing else would need to be touched if the GUI was changed in upgrade menu.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2015
Mentor programms didnt work, didnt you learn anything from the past 4 trys?
The game should explain things by itself
All we need is:
- a feature trailer like i mentioned above shown @1st start ingame
- Improved tutorial in whatever way
- some mechanics (hud, sound,..) that explain important situations for the new players
- Skill based servers
With these 4 things you dont need to dumb down the game or change proven gamemechanics.
SamusDroidColoradoJoin Date: 2013-05-13Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Yes but if you have to explain the order of the lifeforms to someone like me what good would it do in game, just seems illogical. There's better ways of fixing the problem. If people can't figure out that gorge is a support lifeform I doubt they are going to deduct this from switching the order.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2015
@SamusDroid -You don't seem to grasp how an average person thinks. If x costs money and comes after the skulk in the list, people will assume it is an upgrade, I mean, you pay for upgrades right? Not for making you worse?
The fact the skulk is in the list, means everything to the right of it is an upgrade.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Just need to explain that these are not upgrades per se because players DO think that and then their Onos is melted in 3 seconds much to their surprise.
Re ordering the GUI won't solve that (see prior Onos example) .. only proper training and explanation that these are ROLES to be played and not necessarily direct upgrades.
Just need to explain that these are not upgrades per se because players DO think that and then their Onos is melted in 3 seconds much to their surprise.
Re ordering the GUI won't solve that (see prior Onos example) .. only proper training and explanation that these are ROLES to be played and not necessarily direct upgrades.
To paraphrase it sounds like you agree more communication is needed.
I disagree that they are not upgrades. An indirect upgrade is still and upgrade. Assuming a competent player, an onos is an upgrade over the fade. An onos is more valuable than a fade from a strategic point of view. So is a fade over a lerk. They all have a role to play, but they are a more valuable role. It is an upgrade none the less.
Proper training such as the coming enhanced tutorials and training will help. Do you really think that will fix everything? Do you not think that a revised GUI would further complement new tutorials and training's?
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Improving the GUI to properly show/explain the lifeform's combat roles would be a step in the right direction. Just so people know that a Gorge is primarily a Healer/Engineer and not a Playerkiller/Harasser. Otherwise we can have a graph comparing the lifeforms base health/speed/dps to eachother.
Why not add something like "Role Meters?" for the Upgrade Menu? Let me explain:
You click on the Skulk and you see different meters pop up. Maybe ones like "Speed,Combat,Sound,Stealth,and Support."
So for example,a new rookie can see the Gorge in the menu and see that his Combat Meter is very low,yet his Support Meter is very high. This would let him know that the Gorge is better suited for support and is not a direct upgrade Combat-Wise,but an upgrade for Support! So there really is no "Direct-Upgrades",it's all about the current situation! The Sound Meter would also be great to tell Rookies that X alien makes little noise n' such. Example: A new player sees that an Onos makes way to much noise,so he decides to wait it out until a push,where no silence is needed.
What do ya think? Could probably use some improvements,but it's still somethin!
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2015
A upgrade is more passive= more damage or more armor.
While a Lerk itself is a very fragile lifeform, its only a deadly in the hand of a skilled player.
In the hand of an rookie, a lerk is not better than a skulk. Same with the fade.
So if new players are thinking that a higher lifeform is an upgrade wich make them automatic stronger is simply not true.
In theorie yes, a fade is stronger than a skulk. But with the missing knowledge of the rookies the fade going down in 2 sec.
What an awesome upgrade is this?
And thats why we need ways to teach them to understand how a fade or lerk work.
Changing lifeform order wouldnt change anything.
I think a linear order is just the wrong way to display the lifeforms. Even Lerks/Fades/Onoses are more complicated than just being a stronger Skulk. The evolve menu should be in a circle I think, with proper role descriptions for each lifeform.
I think a linear order is just the wrong way to display the lifeforms. Even Lerks/Fades/Onoses are more complicated than just being a stronger Skulk. The evolve menu should be in a circle I think, with proper role descriptions for each lifeform.
I got the idea to move the gorge on the upgrade menu from the game Unvanquished, and they do exactly that. They have everything in a circle but still showing linear progression.
Assuming a competent player, an onos is an upgrade over the fade.
A competent player, by definition, understands the roles. A rookie does not and assumes the Onos being the most expensive is tankier than they really are.
I am not opposed to redesigning the GUI.. I am opposed to re ordering the lifeforms in lieu of explaining the roles through the GUI, much like zek's comment points out or the picture you posted of a radial menu.
Re ordering will still result in the same issues, but removing any ordering (like a radial menu) will not, so that may work. Just don't have a wall of text explaining the role like that picture.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
Today i saw a player going Lerk the 1st time.
How did he play?
He was running most of the time and flapping sometimes only to end in a wall.
I told him to hold space to glide.
So far so good.
After a break i joined another server 2 hrs later and saw the same player playing Lerk.
What should i say.
He was still running and flapping a bit.
He learned nothing during these 2 hrs.
THATS the problem of the game. Hidden mechanics like to hold space.
Is this explained somewhere? Dont think so.
A different lifeform order wouldnt help this Lerk in any way.
And im sure, this player didnt feel stronger with his lerk bouncing from walls and dying all day long.
Comments
I feel like society failed this man in his upbringing more than the game did.
Thank you for the affirmation of that idea.
I have also though that in addition to that, making gorges free might also simplify things but it would be more difficult to change than just adjusting the gui.
Why would changing one number be more difficult than moving the order of GUIs?
clearly a game issue.
If vets joining a server and a round is already running, they press tab to see the current roundtime and scores.
This plus the current kills giving them an idea of whats going on.
And after going spec (some servers blocking this) they already see that there is no point in joining the round for example.
Imagine a new player got slaughtered a multiple times on a server, so he switched server and joining into this round only to get slaughtered again.
Its just not fun to join a alienteam for example surrounded by exos and arcs.
So you join into a already lost round.
And on top of that you losing skillpoints for this already lost round you playing maybe 30 sec.
Thats a real stupid idea, sorry.
How about Lerks 1st, new players tend to walk around as Lerks.
Or Fades 1st, new players as Fade running in, swiping like idiots and die within seconds.
Same with onos.
You know, there really dumb players out there.
In every game.
And these player are so dumb, no dumbing down in the world would help them.
If you dont know how to play a lifeform, its ok. Thats part of learning.
And if the player of the example just leave after 1st death.
Well, NS2 might be the wrong game for him.
Happen.
By changing the order, it will feel like you're taking a "step down" in combat effectiveness... pnewbies will be less likely to jump straight to gorge expecting a stronger lifeform... Also, adding descriptions to the in game evolve UI will help stop these mistakes from happening too.
so yes, changing the order is a good idea.
@Ixian nothing can really be done about that, if a fade is near enough insta killing then maybe they are too high skilled to be going against rookies (many suggestions about server limitations etc have been brought up to try to limit it though) or the rookie is just oblivious (more likely) in which case encouragement and people explaining what the game is like is the only real way to solve it at the moment... if the rookie isn't willing to stick around and listen to people, there isn't really anything you can do about it.
One of the hardest jobs I had explaining was the Gorge is not an upgrade, it is not a battle unit, it is a builder and support unit. The most common response was if it isn't an upgrade why does it show as being better than a skulk in the menu.
They have no comprehension when they are in obs range and can be seen through walls.
They can't understand the concept of aliens hiding and ambushing, they've seen the films, aliens can just rush and over power marines. (Blame Aliens, Starship troopers etc)
I have been playing NS for years, and I am not very good at the game, but when you see rookies trying to grasp the concepts of the game, you can see right away why they constantly scream about 'bullshit mechanics' and 'hackers'.
After spending this time dedicating myself to trying to teach rookies, the problems in-game become glaringly obvious, but there are too many to be completely solved.
I don't hold out much hope of NS2 ever drastically increasing it's retention rate because there are too many fundamental issues for rookies that need to be addressed, and the return on that financially can't be worth it.
This isn't so much about teaching rookies, this is an issue of the mechanics are really messed up.
NS2 was always meant to be designed as a more accessible game than NS, hence why elements of combat were included, buying your own weapons as marines for example. I feel the game we have ended up with is actually infinitely less accessible. There is no cohesion between the lifeforms, and so many hidden or just illogical, to a rookie, mechanics that the game just ends up being 'bullshit'
I have come across so many rage quitting rookies, and this is on games where I am the only non rookie, and all I am doing is helping others play and learn the game.
Tutor and teach people all you want, it's the mechanics of the game that are causing the problems with new players.
If they can not phatom a obs can work through walls, well.. that is one mechanic I would not want to lose, for example.
The obs was just a point about the little things we take for granted, that new players have absolutely no idea of what it means. I mean, why would a cool effect on your body mean you are visible to marines through a wall? There is no reason for them to think that.
The obs thing could be solved with a message advising, when you see this effect on your screen, you are in range of a Marine obs and can be seen through walls.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2263468/#Comment_2263468
This trailer should be ingame also and it should be forced at 1st start.
So people can "learn" things before they klick the buy button.
There some simple rules people forget when playing skulk:
In every fukin shooter out there you have to be silent when you try to ambush someone
You dont run straight into 4 enemys alone.
Did i mention that some players are dumb?
When they run around as skulk and making these loud footsteps, do they really believe noone can hear them?
When they cant kill a single marine alone cause bitespam all day long, do they really believe they can kill 4?
This doesnt work in ANY shooter, why are they trying this in NS2?
When i see 4 soldiers on an open field in a WW2 shooter and i have only a knife, it doesnt make any sense to attack them over the long field.
But people doing exact this as skulk.
Nonstop.
Yeah "bullshit mechanic"
And the Shoppage says: "NS2 is an FPS/RTS hybrid"
What is the most important thing in EVERY fukin RTs game?
Right,
Ressources.
So could it be that a hybrid game with RTs elements is about ressources also?
Hmm, maybe.
Thats why i dont understand that new players dont understand that its better to flank 4 marines and bite ressources instead of trying to kill these 4 alone.
Did i mention that some, aehm. yes.
Right now the gorge appears to be an upgrade to a rookie, when in reality it is at best a sidegrade to a skulk. It looks like an upgrade because the order of progression. The upgrade menu is skulk, gorge, lerk, fade, onos. This looks like Skulk < Gorge < Lerk < Fade < Onos. This wrong progression is further progressed by the pres costs. A gorge costs 8 res, therefor it must be better than a free skulk. A fade costs 30 pres, therefor must be better than a lerk. A fade is better than a lerk, but a gorge is not better than a skulk.
There are 3 ways to better communicate the role of the gorge.
1) Making a better text description would be the smallest change out of all 3 mentioned. This could be done for all lifeforms for greater effect. I don't think anyone really disagree's with this so I don't see a reason to discuss it further.
2) Changing the menu to Gorge < Skulk < Lerk < Fade < Onos would better communicate the gorges role. It is not better than a skulk. It is not an upgrade. It is at best a side grade but often a downgrade from a skulk. It is a support class.
This new order would better communicate the role. Some say this would be unnecessary if there were better text descriptions. Text descriptions only go so far. Changing the order in the evolve menu would be visual and not need text. A gorge would look like it is worse than a skulk. Changing the role and having a better text description would complement each other really well.
Some say this idea is a L2P issue. That is correct. The game can make it a little easier to L2P though. This would be an incredibly simple fix that would no effect on veterans. Are you as a veterans actually going to care if a gorge moved to the left? Do you even gorge?
I got this idea by playing the game Unvanquished, which is a slightly similar alien vs marines asymmetrical shooter. It is a Tremulous remake. In this game they have a builder support class similar to the gorge. In their upgrade menu the gorge equivalent is before the skulk equivalent. I would have figured it out in 2 minutes that the gorge equivalent was not fit for combat, but the order they had the menu in I realized it in 2 seconds. That little bit of visual communication went a long way.
3) Unvanquished also makes the gorge equivalent free. It is set up as a side grade support class to the skulk equivalent. I like the idea of making our ns2 gorges free, but I know it is not that simple. A free gorge would solidify the communication of the gorges role.
A free gorge would have large ripple effects and would require a rebalance. I like the idea of a free gorge but I am not sure yet if it is realistic. Because I don't think I can adequately describe how this might be a beneficial change beyond better communication I won't argue for its inclusion.
@SamusDroid, you are correct just changing the pres value of a gorge to 0 would take 30 seconds. It would be that easy. The problem with that a free gorge would have large ripple effects on balance. Bile bomb and tunnels would both become more overpowered than they already are. Tunnels could easily be balanced by adjusting their pres cost, but bilebomb would not be so easy. It would take a few weeks, at least, to playtest this one balance change. In comparison nothing else would need to be touched if the GUI was changed in upgrade menu.
Vets need to be encouraged to mentor and instruct rookies on public servers in a fashion that is fun.
Like squad 5 was designed to reward content contribution we need another squad badge or reward for consistent mentoring.
I haven't worked out the details on how it is earned. Nominations? In game thumbs up button? Server admins?
The game should explain things by itself
All we need is:
- a feature trailer like i mentioned above shown @1st start ingame
- Improved tutorial in whatever way
- some mechanics (hud, sound,..) that explain important situations for the new players
- Skill based servers
With these 4 things you dont need to dumb down the game or change proven gamemechanics.
The fact the skulk is in the list, means everything to the right of it is an upgrade.
Re ordering the GUI won't solve that (see prior Onos example) .. only proper training and explanation that these are ROLES to be played and not necessarily direct upgrades.
I disagree that they are not upgrades. An indirect upgrade is still and upgrade. Assuming a competent player, an onos is an upgrade over the fade. An onos is more valuable than a fade from a strategic point of view. So is a fade over a lerk. They all have a role to play, but they are a more valuable role. It is an upgrade none the less.
Proper training such as the coming enhanced tutorials and training will help. Do you really think that will fix everything? Do you not think that a revised GUI would further complement new tutorials and training's?
You click on the Skulk and you see different meters pop up. Maybe ones like "Speed,Combat,Sound,Stealth,and Support."
So for example,a new rookie can see the Gorge in the menu and see that his Combat Meter is very low,yet his Support Meter is very high. This would let him know that the Gorge is better suited for support and is not a direct upgrade Combat-Wise,but an upgrade for Support! So there really is no "Direct-Upgrades",it's all about the current situation! The Sound Meter would also be great to tell Rookies that X alien makes little noise n' such. Example: A new player sees that an Onos makes way to much noise,so he decides to wait it out until a push,where no silence is needed.
What do ya think? Could probably use some improvements,but it's still somethin!
While a Lerk itself is a very fragile lifeform, its only a deadly in the hand of a skilled player.
In the hand of an rookie, a lerk is not better than a skulk. Same with the fade.
So if new players are thinking that a higher lifeform is an upgrade wich make them automatic stronger is simply not true.
In theorie yes, a fade is stronger than a skulk. But with the missing knowledge of the rookies the fade going down in 2 sec.
What an awesome upgrade is this?
And thats why we need ways to teach them to understand how a fade or lerk work.
Changing lifeform order wouldnt change anything.
That is another way to communicate that, but it is also much more complicated than just reordering the menu.
So you think it would do absolutely nothing. Do you also think it would do any harm in any way?
I got the idea to move the gorge on the upgrade menu from the game Unvanquished, and they do exactly that. They have everything in a circle but still showing linear progression.
Granger = Gorge
Adv. Granger = Super wall walking gorge
Dretch = Skulk
Tyrant = Onos
I am not opposed to redesigning the GUI.. I am opposed to re ordering the lifeforms in lieu of explaining the roles through the GUI, much like zek's comment points out or the picture you posted of a radial menu.
Re ordering will still result in the same issues, but removing any ordering (like a radial menu) will not, so that may work. Just don't have a wall of text explaining the role like that picture.
How did he play?
He was running most of the time and flapping sometimes only to end in a wall.
I told him to hold space to glide.
So far so good.
After a break i joined another server 2 hrs later and saw the same player playing Lerk.
What should i say.
He was still running and flapping a bit.
He learned nothing during these 2 hrs.
THATS the problem of the game. Hidden mechanics like to hold space.
Is this explained somewhere? Dont think so.
A different lifeform order wouldnt help this Lerk in any way.
And im sure, this player didnt feel stronger with his lerk bouncing from walls and dying all day long.
That is an entirely separate issue that what I am even talking about.