@mendasp: simply put
You gave copyright to UWE by signing a NDA. This includes all the work you do as a CDT member.
If you still want to add things to NS2+. Up to you to choose to continue on the official version or your own.
This is a choice. The worst that can happen is to change the mod name.
Good side of things : life is more simple. You're your own boss.
Bad side of things :
You're on your own. Welcome to the world...
Here's the funny thing: I didn't sign anything giving UWE any rights to use my work in vanilla. So they have a legal problem there, I didn't bring it up here because I didn't feel it was relevant, but since you mentioned it...
And there's nothing legal stopping me from working on NS2+, the mod is mine, not UWE's, it existed prior to the CDT and it still exists, and they never had any claim about it because it's always been mine. Not sure why you think it's theirs at all. To be honest I wonder if they even know about it and its importance. I don't work on it out of a matter of dignity, I am not going to drag myself in the mud, they are in the wrong here. They don't deserve my work.
The problem is they claim to value community contributions and contributors, except the biggest mod for NS2 and its author of course.
At the rate this is going it doesn't look like they will ever post here, which is ok, however not even trying to fix it privately either and hoping the problem might go away on its own displays a serious lack of professionalism and zero care for its community. And it goes against everything claimed in these recent blog posts. Then again we're all kind of used to empty promises.
Perhaps I should disable the mod a day or two and see what happens.
@mendasp: simply put
You gave copyright to UWE by signing a NDA. This includes all the work you do as a CDT member.
If you still want to add things to NS2+. Up to you to choose to continue on the official version or your own.
This is a choice. The worst that can happen is to change the mod name.
Good side of things : life is more simple. You're your own boss.
Bad side of things :
You're on your own. Welcome to the world...
Here's the funny thing: I didn't sign anything giving UWE any rights to use my work in vanilla. So they have a legal problem there, I didn't bring it up here because I didn't feel it was relevant, but since you mentioned it...
And there's nothing legal stopping me from working on NS2+, the mod is mine, not UWE's, it existed prior to the CDT and it still exists, and they never had any claim about it because it's always been mine. Not sure why you think it's theirs at all. To be honest I wonder if they even know about it and its importance. I don't work on it out of a matter of dignity, I am not going to drag myself in the mud, they are in the wrong here. They don't deserve my work.
The problem is they claim to value community contributions and contributors, except the biggest mod for NS2 and its author of course.
At the rate this is going it doesn't look like they will ever post here, which is ok, however not even trying to fix it privately either and hoping the problem might go away on its own displays a serious lack of professionalism and zero care for its community. And it goes against everything claimed in these recent blog posts. Then again we're all kind of used to empty promises.
Perhaps I should disable the mod a day or two and see what happens.
I acknowledge your mod, and hard work, has done a lot for the game experience. But it's worth getting real about the fact that UWE don't owe you anything.
You created a mod for a product which you didn't create and which you don't own. You did this voluntarily and (by your own admission) with no expectation, guarantee, promise or pledge of any reward then or in the future.
NS2 is the property of UWE. You were only able to create the mod because UWE made NS2. NS2+ would not be needed if there was no NS2.
In fact, they could just say that your mod no longer meets UWE's quality/gameplay standards, and could deactivate it themselves.
At the risk of being put on to your "enemies list" and having the game rendered unplayable through your underhanded viewmodel rotate shenanigan, I suggest you not try to push your luck.
I thought you signed a Nda. My bad. So if anything written / made by you, is shipped with the game. Any file touched by you it subject to a claim. UWE would be in bad position.
Not that it is a big revenue as not many copies are sold i guess. But it's still earnings. So it's a 'topic' to say the least.
There is the international copyright treaties that cover this area i guess.
@mendasp: simply put
You gave copyright to UWE by signing a NDA. This includes all the work you do as a CDT member.
If you still want to add things to NS2+. Up to you to choose to continue on the official version or your own.
This is a choice. The worst that can happen is to change the mod name.
Good side of things : life is more simple. You're your own boss.
Bad side of things :
You're on your own. Welcome to the world...
Here's the funny thing: I didn't sign anything giving UWE any rights to use my work in vanilla. So they have a legal problem there, I didn't bring it up here because I didn't feel it was relevant, but since you mentioned it...
And there's nothing legal stopping me from working on NS2+, the mod is mine, not UWE's, it existed prior to the CDT and it still exists, and they never had any claim about it because it's always been mine. Not sure why you think it's theirs at all. To be honest I wonder if they even know about it and its importance. I don't work on it out of a matter of dignity, I am not going to drag myself in the mud, they are in the wrong here. They don't deserve my work.
The problem is they claim to value community contributions and contributors, except the biggest mod for NS2 and its author of course.
At the rate this is going it doesn't look like they will ever post here, which is ok, however not even trying to fix it privately either and hoping the problem might go away on its own displays a serious lack of professionalism and zero care for its community. And it goes against everything claimed in these recent blog posts. Then again we're all kind of used to empty promises.
Perhaps I should disable the mod a day or two and see what happens.
I acknowledge your mod, and hard work, has done a lot for the game experience. But it's worth getting real about the fact that UWE don't owe you anything.
You created a mod for a product which you didn't create and which you don't own. You did this voluntarily and (by your own admission) with no expectation, guarantee, promise or pledge of any reward then or in the future.
NS2 is the property of UWE. You were only able to create the mod because UWE made NS2. NS2+ would not be needed if there was no NS2.
In fact, they could just say that your mod no longer meets UWE's quality/gameplay standards, and could deactivate it themselves.
At the risk of being put on to your "enemies list" and having the game rendered unplayable through your underhanded viewmodel rotate shenanigan, I suggest you not try to push your luck.
See, technically you're right, they don't technically owe me anything. However, do you think what they did is right? Do you think it will look good for them to take down NS2+? As a matter of fact, how does such a move benefit them at all?
They claim transparency and that they listen to the community, but this move is certainly the opposite, don't you think?
Don't worry, I lost hope that this would get fixed a while ago. It's just frustrating that they wouldn't even be decent enough to talk to me directly.
I thought you signed a Nda. My bad. So if anything written / made by you, is shipped with the game. Any file touched by you it subject to a claim. UWE would be in bad position.
Not that it is a big revenue as not many copies are sold i guess. But it's still earnings. So it's a 'topic' to say the least.
There is the international copyright treaties that cover this area i guess.
Well, the wording is confusing, since I did sign one for being a PT, so it COULD be covered, but I don't know 100%.
Regarding the use of NS2+ features in vanilla, it falls under the following within the Terms of Use:
Submissions
Unknown Worlds welcomes your comments, feedback and input regarding Unknown Worlds products through this Site. However, Unknown Worlds does not accept or consider any material for use in any of its products (including, but not limited to, demos, sketches, drawings, notes, stories, and game or character ideas), that has not been specifically requested by Unknown Worlds. Accordingly, Unknown Worlds asks you not to send us any such materials. If you ignore this request, any such materials, comments, suggestions or other information submitted by you to Unknown Worlds will become the property of Unknown Worlds, with Unknown Worlds exclusively owning all known and hereafter existing rights to such materials, and you acknowledge and agree not to contest Unknown Worlds’ rights to use and disclose such materials in any manner and for any purpose, commercial or otherwise, without compensation to you.
The wording is (like pretty much all legal documents) vague and all-encompassing, and NS2+ absolutely fits into that threshold. You can consult various free legal resources out there if you're not keen on taking my word.
But before everyone gets the pitchforks, damned near *every* company out there does this (not that I agree with it to begin with... but it's not UWE-specific). Anything you upload, discuss, or contribute is owned by that company and their plethora of siblings/parents/partners forever and they can do anything they want with it. The vast majority of the "make your own shirt/poster/calendar/mug/whatever" sites do it, image hosts do it, website/server hosts often do it, all major social media outlets do it, all the various Google projects do it, etc.
The main sites that *don't* do it are: legit mass-manufacturing/printing services intended for industry professionals not common users (though plenty of them still pull this kind of crap), and sites run by amateurs. Pretty much any site that has ever consulted with a lawyer has this type of wording... both for protection, and legal theft.
It's a harsh lesson to learn, but if you want to truly have legal rights to your own work you had better sit down with a lawyer beforehand. Granted even then whoever has the larger legal team will probably win, but at least you won't be caught unaware. ALWAYS read ToS/etc. and take it seriously... companies certainly do. And remember: most have wording that allows them to change it at any time without notice, so even if it's fine one day it may not be the next.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. I worked as a high level internal auditor for a large Medicare Advantage company and became very familiar with legal contracts, particularly on the web. I'm also paranoid and have been screwed over before by this type of situation. So... yeah. Definitely consult a legal advisor for future projects, but I'll bet my limbs that they'll say essentially what I have.
I acknowledge your mod, and hard work, has done a lot for the game experience. But it's worth getting real about the fact that UWE don't owe you anything.
You created a mod for a product which you didn't create and which you don't own. You did this voluntarily and (by your own admission) with no expectation, guarantee, promise or pledge of any reward then or in the future.
NS2 is the property of UWE. You were only able to create the mod because UWE made NS2. NS2+ would not be needed if there was no NS2.
In fact, they could just say that your mod no longer meets UWE's quality/gameplay standards, and could deactivate it themselves.
At the risk of being put on to your "enemies list" and having the game rendered unplayable through your underhanded viewmodel rotate shenanigan, I suggest you not try to push your luck.
Is basic manners and courtesy not to be expected anymore? Only legal obligations? It's not just about NS2+ and Mendasp, I think every member of the CDT has the right to be offended by what I assume was UWE informing only the relevant people and freezing the rest of them out of the loop.
Edit - Looking at the post below, maybe we can expect another open letter.
My problem isn't with the legal issues here, I have already acknowledged here that I can't ask for any compensation (and it's not the goal of my complaints, which I've mentioned a few times too), I am not entitled to anything in that sense. I just made a side note and now everyone's talking about it. Perhaps I shouldn't have even mentioned it because people always focus on this kind of thing and it's not my intention.
Let me be clear: I'm not fishing for a contract or other compensation here.
The hypocrisy of this whole thing is the problem. Surely you can't say you value your community and want them to be heard and then go and do the exact opposite while showing zero respect and empathy.
If they value their community and transparency so much, why don't they come forward and we get to the bottom of this? How come everyone in the team recommended me but it was silently ignored?
The worst part is from the few conversations I've been able to have, it seems like they even want me to apologize for exposing this.
I acknowledge your mod, and hard work, has done a lot for the game experience. But it's worth getting real about the fact that UWE don't owe you anything.
You created a mod for a product which you didn't create and which you don't own. You did this voluntarily and (by your own admission) with no expectation, guarantee, promise or pledge of any reward then or in the future.
NS2 is the property of UWE. You were only able to create the mod because UWE made NS2. NS2+ would not be needed if there was no NS2.
In fact, they could just say that your mod no longer meets UWE's quality/gameplay standards, and could deactivate it themselves.
At the risk of being put on to your "enemies list" and having the game rendered unplayable through your underhanded viewmodel rotate shenanigan, I suggest you not try to push your luck.
Is basic manners and courtesy not to be expected anymore? Only legal obligations? It's not just about NS2+ and Mendasp, I think every member of the CDT has the right to be offended by what I assume was UWE informing only the relevant people and freezing the rest of them out of the loop.
No one is saying it was good to ignore contributors.
But this discussion is just dragging on into a tiresome sense of egocentric entitlement now.
My problem isn't with the legal issues here, I have already acknowledged here that I can't ask for any compensation (and it's not the goal of my complaints, which I've mentioned a few times too), I am not entitled to anything in that sense. I just made a side note and now everyone's talking about it. Perhaps I shouldn't have even mentioned it because people always focus on this kind of thing and it's not my intention.
Let me be clear: I'm not fishing for a contract or other compensation here.
I know, I just mentioned the legal stuff because folks are often quite ignorant to what using a site actually means and I figured that would at least help quell the "OMG SUE" momentum that seemed to be building... as well as potentially educate a few out there on what is in the big walls of text they never read, yet still agree to on a daily basis.
OK, so here is the Deep Observation™ of the day:
Did anyone notice when Mendasp was all like: "Farewell, cruel world! I'm outta here"
...101 people instantly went: "Awesome!"
The problem is they claim to value community contributions and contributors, except the biggest mod for NS2 and its author of course.
We learned that the hard way years ago, there have been quite a few people burned by this during the NS2 development cycle. Your frustration is fully justified and are indeed correct that it does not make sense at all that they don't show that they value all that hard work.
Instead of focusing on what you did for them think more what you did for the players! This thread shows how much the community loves your work! Your work made the game so much more enjoyable and allowed players to have a blast playing NS2! You should be happy with what you accomplished instead of wasting energy being frustrated at UWE:). They are not worth it!
In the end UWE has always been disconnected form what their players wanted. This is why so many community projects turned out so successful because they did exactly what the game needed. The CDT team has done much better job at focusing on the right things that UWE ever did, the performance update is the proof of that. But it will be hard for the new team to get this game back going without the ability to do some major changes, I wish them best of luck though.
Perhaps I should disable the mod a day or two and see what happens.
Seen this kind of thing been done before, UWE won't blink a eye to it. The only ones that would be affected by this are the players that love using NS2+.
The fact is we are all grateful for your amazing work you did for the community Mendasp! .
Exactly, if any of the members were doing things for UWE we would end up with more posts about flying over the ground and less bug fixes.
The CDT worked to improve the game and did so in ways that UWE would never and could never match b/c they cared about the game itself as they were actually players of said game.
OK, so here is the Deep Observation™ of the day:
Did anyone notice when Mendasp was all like: "Farewell, cruel world! I'm outta here"
...101 people instantly went: "Awesome!"
For shame, NS2 Community, for shame!
Should a gamer be considered as a groupie by default ?
Or is there more than one type of gamer ?
Regarding the use of NS2+ features in vanilla, it falls under the following within the Terms of Use:
Submissions
Unknown Worlds welcomes your comments, feedback and input regarding Unknown Worlds products through this Site. However, Unknown Worlds does not accept or consider any material for use in any of its products (including, but not limited to, demos, sketches, drawings, notes, stories, and game or character ideas), that has not been specifically requested by Unknown Worlds. Accordingly, Unknown Worlds asks you not to send us any such materials. If you ignore this request, any such materials, comments, suggestions or other information submitted by you to Unknown Worlds will become the property of Unknown Worlds, with Unknown Worlds exclusively owning all known and hereafter existing rights to such materials, and you acknowledge and agree not to contest Unknown Worlds’ rights to use and disclose such materials in any manner and for any purpose, commercial or otherwise, without compensation to you.
The wording is (like pretty much all legal documents) vague and all-encompassing, and NS2+ absolutely fits into that threshold. You can consult various free legal resources out there if you're not keen on taking my word.
But before everyone gets the pitchforks, damned near *every* company out there does this (not that I agree with it to begin with... but it's not UWE-specific). Anything you upload, discuss, or contribute is owned by that company and their plethora of siblings/parents/partners forever and they can do anything they want with it. The vast majority of the "make your own shirt/poster/calendar/mug/whatever" sites do it, image hosts do it, website/server hosts often do it, all major social media outlets do it, all the various Google projects do it, etc.
The main sites that *don't* do it are: legit mass-manufacturing/printing services intended for industry professionals not common users (though plenty of them still pull this kind of crap), and sites run by amateurs. Pretty much any site that has ever consulted with a lawyer has this type of wording... both for protection, and legal theft.
It's a harsh lesson to learn, but if you want to truly have legal rights to your own work you had better sit down with a lawyer beforehand. Granted even then whoever has the larger legal team will probably win, but at least you won't be caught unaware. ALWAYS read ToS/etc. and take it seriously... companies certainly do. And remember: most have wording that allows them to change it at any time without notice, so even if it's fine one day it may not be the next.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. I worked as a high level internal auditor for a large Medicare Advantage company and became very familiar with legal contracts, particularly on the web. I'm also paranoid and have been screwed over before by this type of situation. So... yeah. Definitely consult a legal advisor for future projects, but I'll bet my limbs that they'll say essentially what I have.
i don't think a lot of that stuff actually holds up in court. It strikes me as a EULA, and those have been tossed out for various reasons in the past. I honestly don't think someone can sign away the rights to their own work... without actually having signed anything.
I gotta say... since all this has shaken up, my desire to play ns2 has dwindled incredibly and it's a bummer. I don't know why, exactly, I love the game. But something about "UWE coming back to ns2 development" and the way it's been handled I think has really turned me off for reasons beyond the game itself. I thank and appreciate the CDT and am glad for the certain few who've been recruited, but things like this are what are turning me away and I doubt that I'm the only one.
Even if they don't officially owe him anything... they do owe him something in my book. Even if that's just recognition..
My problem isn't with the legal issues here, I have already acknowledged here that I can't ask for any compensation (and it's not the goal of my complaints, which I've mentioned a few times too), I am not entitled to anything in that sense. I just made a side note and now everyone's talking about it. Perhaps I shouldn't have even mentioned it because people always focus on this kind of thing and it's not my intention.
Let me be clear: I'm not fishing for a contract or other compensation here.
I know, I just mentioned the legal stuff because folks are often quite ignorant to what using a site actually means and I figured that would at least help quell the "OMG SUE" momentum that seemed to be building... as well as potentially educate a few out there on what is in the big walls of text they never read, yet still agree to on a daily basis.
If the work is uploaded onto UWE assets (FTP and such) : yes you're probably right.
If on the other hand, if it's uploaded onto Steam Workshop as it seems to be the case (even if an 'official' sticker is put on it), then it should be the Steam licence that prevals.
Those things have to be checked with particular focus by the people involved. I am not saying that one should sue etc. I have no interest in the matter.
Nothing is lost either concerning the first case.
It would be bad publicity for UWE to rip code / script and ship it without proper retribution to the authors.
A simple version update of the mod. Or change of name can do the trick.
hey mendasp, saw your post on reddit! i don't even play the game anymore, but your mod was that good, i sent in a password reset to this now misleading username to show some support.
your mod is easily the best i've used in ANY game when it came to customizing the players experience. it was amazing how much control your mod gave me to customize the little intricate details of the game. you let players customize the game to make the experience they wanted to have, not the one UWE wanted to force me to have. perfect example was the alien vision change. after how many years, they randomly change it to that godawful orange/yellow eye cancer. probably the largest thread on the forum with tons of people asking for it to change or the old option back. they never listened, but thankfully we had your mod that gave a few different options to change.
the uwe team has defintely been questionable to ME, so i can imagine what the way others can be treated in your position. i was temp banned for bringing up hit reg issues and providing video proof, while staff dismissed it in discussion. then warned not to post it again in the general discussion patch threads, meanwhile others freely discussed other issues.
had another time a mod told me a frequent griefer i was complaining about that ruined so many games by circumventing the broken vote kick wasn't their problem, contact the server owner! all griefers just left before the vote passed and rejoined instantly, bypassing the entire vote kick system, and that was somehow the server operators problem, lol! they told me to hunt down server owners to get manual bans placed, what a f'in joke. i wouldn't be surprised if that still isn't fixed.
and i won't be surprised if ironhorse (the guy that defends every NS2 broken mechanic until it's fixed, then it needed to be fixed) bans me again and deletes my post, lol! i'm actually surprised he hasn't deleted this thread, but then again, reading a few posts up of "ninja sink" is hilariously ironic.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2015
Figured I should write something proper.
I remember when the mod was still called CHUD and when the ENSL had seasons where they refused to use it. The AUS public community was likely the first to be using your mod and our league was definitely the first to be running CHUD in our tournaments and cups. I still recall installing it and showing it off to everyone. The lowlights, vision obscuration tweaks and many quality of life improvements your mod featured even at its initial stages were crucial to our scene having as much success as it did. I would like to thank you for that.
It's been a great joy following the mod through its development and the constant flow of updates meant that NS2 was continually improved upon even when the UWE updates dried up. You have always been extremely open about the mods development and easily contactable. I could always ask if new updates was on the way, what would be in it, what you were working on. Perhaps simple things, but over such a long period of time it really did add up. I appreciate you never blocking me on Steam after I don't know how many options I asked for.
I would not have been playing this game for as long as I did without this mod. I know many others feel the same way. It's a real shame how this has gone down with the PDT. If you do decide to stop (permanently this time, aye?) then it's the community that will suffer from that.
Now I know this is Mendasps thread and all that. But from my experiences with Samusdroid I think a lot of this applies to him as well. The work both of you did for the past few years has been amazing.
Comments
You gave copyright to UWE by signing a NDA. This includes all the work you do as a CDT member.
If you still want to add things to NS2+. Up to you to choose to continue on the official version or your own.
This is a choice. The worst that can happen is to change the mod name.
Good side of things : life is more simple. You're your own boss.
Bad side of things :
You're on your own. Welcome to the world...
Here's the funny thing: I didn't sign anything giving UWE any rights to use my work in vanilla. So they have a legal problem there, I didn't bring it up here because I didn't feel it was relevant, but since you mentioned it...
And there's nothing legal stopping me from working on NS2+, the mod is mine, not UWE's, it existed prior to the CDT and it still exists, and they never had any claim about it because it's always been mine. Not sure why you think it's theirs at all. To be honest I wonder if they even know about it and its importance. I don't work on it out of a matter of dignity, I am not going to drag myself in the mud, they are in the wrong here. They don't deserve my work.
The problem is they claim to value community contributions and contributors, except the biggest mod for NS2 and its author of course.
At the rate this is going it doesn't look like they will ever post here, which is ok, however not even trying to fix it privately either and hoping the problem might go away on its own displays a serious lack of professionalism and zero care for its community. And it goes against everything claimed in these recent blog posts. Then again we're all kind of used to empty promises.
Perhaps I should disable the mod a day or two and see what happens.
I acknowledge your mod, and hard work, has done a lot for the game experience. But it's worth getting real about the fact that UWE don't owe you anything.
You created a mod for a product which you didn't create and which you don't own. You did this voluntarily and (by your own admission) with no expectation, guarantee, promise or pledge of any reward then or in the future.
NS2 is the property of UWE. You were only able to create the mod because UWE made NS2. NS2+ would not be needed if there was no NS2.
In fact, they could just say that your mod no longer meets UWE's quality/gameplay standards, and could deactivate it themselves.
At the risk of being put on to your "enemies list" and having the game rendered unplayable through your underhanded viewmodel rotate shenanigan, I suggest you not try to push your luck.
Not that it is a big revenue as not many copies are sold i guess. But it's still earnings. So it's a 'topic' to say the least.
There is the international copyright treaties that cover this area i guess.
See, technically you're right, they don't technically owe me anything. However, do you think what they did is right? Do you think it will look good for them to take down NS2+? As a matter of fact, how does such a move benefit them at all?
They claim transparency and that they listen to the community, but this move is certainly the opposite, don't you think?
Don't worry, I lost hope that this would get fixed a while ago. It's just frustrating that they wouldn't even be decent enough to talk to me directly.
Well, the wording is confusing, since I did sign one for being a PT, so it COULD be covered, but I don't know 100%.
I wasn't talking about NS2+. NS2+ is my own thing, I was talking of my CDT work. NS2+ is obviously outside of that.
The wording is (like pretty much all legal documents) vague and all-encompassing, and NS2+ absolutely fits into that threshold. You can consult various free legal resources out there if you're not keen on taking my word.
But before everyone gets the pitchforks, damned near *every* company out there does this (not that I agree with it to begin with... but it's not UWE-specific). Anything you upload, discuss, or contribute is owned by that company and their plethora of siblings/parents/partners forever and they can do anything they want with it. The vast majority of the "make your own shirt/poster/calendar/mug/whatever" sites do it, image hosts do it, website/server hosts often do it, all major social media outlets do it, all the various Google projects do it, etc.
The main sites that *don't* do it are: legit mass-manufacturing/printing services intended for industry professionals not common users (though plenty of them still pull this kind of crap), and sites run by amateurs. Pretty much any site that has ever consulted with a lawyer has this type of wording... both for protection, and legal theft.
It's a harsh lesson to learn, but if you want to truly have legal rights to your own work you had better sit down with a lawyer beforehand. Granted even then whoever has the larger legal team will probably win, but at least you won't be caught unaware. ALWAYS read ToS/etc. and take it seriously... companies certainly do. And remember: most have wording that allows them to change it at any time without notice, so even if it's fine one day it may not be the next.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. I worked as a high level internal auditor for a large Medicare Advantage company and became very familiar with legal contracts, particularly on the web. I'm also paranoid and have been screwed over before by this type of situation. So... yeah. Definitely consult a legal advisor for future projects, but I'll bet my limbs that they'll say essentially what I have.
Make your jokes while you can @Benson, because I can now see the peak of your power!
While I'm only beginning to tap into mine...
You see I have finally realized the legend...
That right, you're not dealing with the average Kouji anymore, Benson...
I, Kouji... Have finally become... The legendary Super Cookie!
Edit - Looking at the post below, maybe we can expect another open letter.
Let me be clear: I'm not fishing for a contract or other compensation here.
The hypocrisy of this whole thing is the problem. Surely you can't say you value your community and want them to be heard and then go and do the exact opposite while showing zero respect and empathy.
If they value their community and transparency so much, why don't they come forward and we get to the bottom of this? How come everyone in the team recommended me but it was silently ignored?
The worst part is from the few conversations I've been able to have, it seems like they even want me to apologize for exposing this.
No one is saying it was good to ignore contributors.
But this discussion is just dragging on into a tiresome sense of egocentric entitlement now.
I know, I just mentioned the legal stuff because folks are often quite ignorant to what using a site actually means and I figured that would at least help quell the "OMG SUE" momentum that seemed to be building... as well as potentially educate a few out there on what is in the big walls of text they never read, yet still agree to on a daily basis.
Did anyone notice when Mendasp was all like: "Farewell, cruel world! I'm outta here"
...101 people instantly went: "Awesome!"
For shame, NS2 Community, for shame!
We learned that the hard way years ago, there have been quite a few people burned by this during the NS2 development cycle. Your frustration is fully justified and are indeed correct that it does not make sense at all that they don't show that they value all that hard work.
Instead of focusing on what you did for them think more what you did for the players! This thread shows how much the community loves your work! Your work made the game so much more enjoyable and allowed players to have a blast playing NS2! You should be happy with what you accomplished instead of wasting energy being frustrated at UWE:). They are not worth it!
In the end UWE has always been disconnected form what their players wanted. This is why so many community projects turned out so successful because they did exactly what the game needed. The CDT team has done much better job at focusing on the right things that UWE ever did, the performance update is the proof of that. But it will be hard for the new team to get this game back going without the ability to do some major changes, I wish them best of luck though.
Seen this kind of thing been done before, UWE won't blink a eye to it. The only ones that would be affected by this are the players that love using NS2+.
The fact is we are all grateful for your amazing work you did for the community Mendasp!
Thanks again for your hard work!
The CDT worked to improve the game and did so in ways that UWE would never and could never match b/c they cared about the game itself as they were actually players of said game.
Should a gamer be considered as a groupie by default ?
Or is there more than one type of gamer ?
i don't think a lot of that stuff actually holds up in court. It strikes me as a EULA, and those have been tossed out for various reasons in the past. I honestly don't think someone can sign away the rights to their own work... without actually having signed anything.
also, apparently, changing TOS may invalidate the contract entirely...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_v._Blockbuster,_Inc.
in the US.
Even if they don't officially owe him anything... they do owe him something in my book. Even if that's just recognition..
If the work is uploaded onto UWE assets (FTP and such) : yes you're probably right.
If on the other hand, if it's uploaded onto Steam Workshop as it seems to be the case (even if an 'official' sticker is put on it), then it should be the Steam licence that prevals.
Those things have to be checked with particular focus by the people involved. I am not saying that one should sue etc. I have no interest in the matter.
Nothing is lost either concerning the first case.
It would be bad publicity for UWE to rip code / script and ship it without proper retribution to the authors.
A simple version update of the mod. Or change of name can do the trick.
your mod is easily the best i've used in ANY game when it came to customizing the players experience. it was amazing how much control your mod gave me to customize the little intricate details of the game. you let players customize the game to make the experience they wanted to have, not the one UWE wanted to force me to have. perfect example was the alien vision change. after how many years, they randomly change it to that godawful orange/yellow eye cancer. probably the largest thread on the forum with tons of people asking for it to change or the old option back. they never listened, but thankfully we had your mod that gave a few different options to change.
the uwe team has defintely been questionable to ME, so i can imagine what the way others can be treated in your position. i was temp banned for bringing up hit reg issues and providing video proof, while staff dismissed it in discussion. then warned not to post it again in the general discussion patch threads, meanwhile others freely discussed other issues.
had another time a mod told me a frequent griefer i was complaining about that ruined so many games by circumventing the broken vote kick wasn't their problem, contact the server owner! all griefers just left before the vote passed and rejoined instantly, bypassing the entire vote kick system, and that was somehow the server operators problem, lol! they told me to hunt down server owners to get manual bans placed, what a f'in joke. i wouldn't be surprised if that still isn't fixed.
and i won't be surprised if ironhorse (the guy that defends every NS2 broken mechanic until it's fixed, then it needed to be fixed) bans me again and deletes my post, lol! i'm actually surprised he hasn't deleted this thread, but then again, reading a few posts up of "ninja sink" is hilariously ironic.
I remember when the mod was still called CHUD and when the ENSL had seasons where they refused to use it. The AUS public community was likely the first to be using your mod and our league was definitely the first to be running CHUD in our tournaments and cups. I still recall installing it and showing it off to everyone. The lowlights, vision obscuration tweaks and many quality of life improvements your mod featured even at its initial stages were crucial to our scene having as much success as it did. I would like to thank you for that.
It's been a great joy following the mod through its development and the constant flow of updates meant that NS2 was continually improved upon even when the UWE updates dried up. You have always been extremely open about the mods development and easily contactable. I could always ask if new updates was on the way, what would be in it, what you were working on. Perhaps simple things, but over such a long period of time it really did add up. I appreciate you never blocking me on Steam after I don't know how many options I asked for.
I would not have been playing this game for as long as I did without this mod. I know many others feel the same way. It's a real shame how this has gone down with the PDT. If you do decide to stop (permanently this time, aye?) then it's the community that will suffer from that.
Now I know this is Mendasps thread and all that. But from my experiences with Samusdroid I think a lot of this applies to him as well. The work both of you did for the past few years has been amazing.
Thanks.