Discussion on hostile creature spawn rates and coverage areas

04Leonhardt

So, something that was kind of bothering me about the sheer amount of hostile creatures in each biome.

There's way too damn many.

I get that it's meant to be dangerous, but I feel that we could use fewer predators, and have them more spread out over the different biomes, so that

A: You're not always under constant attack outside of the Safe Shallows
B: Predator attacks are more rare, but also more unique and potentially more threatening.
C: Players feel like the game is less about fighting off predators, and more about exploring the world.

What I would propose, is make each predator unique to only a few specific biomes.

For example, the Bone Shark could be unique to the Grand Reef and Jelly Shroom Caves, removing it from the overly hostile Red Plains and Grassy Plateaus, as well as the Mushroom Forest and Floating Islands.
~Biterfish could be moved to the Sparse Reef, and to the Mushroom Forest in place of the Bone Shark.
~Sand Sharks are fine in their place in the Red Plains/Grassy Plateaus as well as in the Dunes, but could be made more rare, since it's easy to find packs of 3 swimming around together.
~Bleeders are also fine.
~Stalkers are fine, though I would make them less hostile, perhaps only attacking if the player picks up scrap metal near them.
~The Reaper Leviathan in the Mountains should stay near the sea floor, or be removed altogether. They are currently fine spawning in great numbers around the Aurora and in the Dunes.
~Crashes are fine, but I feel they could have their damage and swim speed nerfed slightly.
~Spike Plants could actually be spread out to more biomes, though their attack speed needs to be nerfed as well. They'd fit well in the Safe Shallows amongst the other coral formations.



I believe the goal should be to make each hostile creature encounter more unique, yet also a bit more rare, so the game is less about fighting off sea monsters.

You picking up what I'm putting down?

TL;DR The Bone Shark is freaking everywhere and there's too many monsters in other biomes trying to ruin your day

Duff_McDuggin

I agree with the bone sharks being too numerous. I was trying to collect silver in the red grass area just past the big round jelly shroom cave entrance in the shallows. I encountered at least six bone sharks along the cliff wall where the green and red area met. The bone sharks were mid water while the sand sharks were bottom, I had nowhere to go. I had to go find silver elsewhere to make enough tech to make a stasis rifle, and used up a basic knife culling the herd before I could even use the area. I like a challenge. The ocean should never be safe. The bone sharks though, I believe are just a bit too densely populated. On that note I sense that the devs are trying to get all the pieces on the board, and then determine placement. So I dont expect the predators to be well placed at this point, but I make this assertion so that it may effect their placement down the road.

tyler111762

i would also like a peaceful mode, for collecting gameplay outside of using freecam

Naali

Also, I've had stalkers show up in "safe" shallows MANY times directly below the escape pod on a completely new save file. Before I could even get a knife.

ChaosKnight626

Might I also mention a respawn rate would be good, namely because I want to be able to kill Reapers, if they end up respawning that will be fine with me.

sayerulz

Yea, being under constant attack doesn't really make sense for a supposedly non violent game. Having endless swarms of enemies while keeping the player helpless is not really a good formula.

Seldkam

sayerulz wrote: »

Yea, being under constant attack doesn't really make sense for a supposedly non violent game. Having endless swarms of enemies while keeping the player helpless is not really a good formula.

Is the whole "super mega aggressive " ai bug still a problem ?

sayerulz

Seldkam wrote: »

sayerulz wrote: »

Yea, being under constant attack doesn't really make sense for a supposedly non violent game. Having endless swarms of enemies while keeping the player helpless is not really a good formula.

Is the whole "super mega aggressive " ai bug still a problem ?

Not as far as I know, but just exploring around bonesharks aggro on you very frequently, in a way that makes little sense. Since there are no human sized creatures in the bone sharks areas besides bone sharks themselves and sand sharks, it is safe to assume that such large creatures are not a regular part of their diet. So why will they attack a human on sight 100% of the time?

Seldkam

sayerulz wrote: »

Seldkam wrote: »

sayerulz wrote: »

Yea, being under constant attack doesn't really make sense for a supposedly non violent game. Having endless swarms of enemies while keeping the player helpless is not really a good formula.

Is the whole "super mega aggressive " ai bug still a problem ?

Not as far as I know, but just exploring around bonesharks aggro on you very frequently, in a way that makes little sense. Since there are no human sized creatures in the bone sharks areas besides bone sharks themselves and sand sharks, it is safe to assume that such large creatures are not a regular part of their diet. So why will they attack a human on sight 100% of the time?

Yea no, I agree that all predators shouldn't attack the player on sight-- I was just curious since before that game breaking little hitch, the predators were mostly easy to deal with

Bale

I have to admit that the boneshark is a pain, being in most of the biomes, and i find him sometimes really difficult to avoid because this guy is pretty damn fast and he does hide pretty well in the environment at great depths .

As for the rest of the fauna, i think they are fine where they are.

I have a question for you. I have a base in kelp forest that was once surrounded by stalkers but they all disapeared and i am now alone in this part of the forest. Do the stalkers died by themselves or I will find them in a damn hole eating at metal ?

TotallyLemon

I'd like some sort of camouflage, so as to avoid being spotted by predators.

Captain_Pyro

I don't think i want the predators moved around. I think it'd be more realistic if some of them are bound to a specific biome and some roam around all over the ocean.
Some others said it above, they simply need to be less aggressive. I started a new game to see what the new island is like ... it's so annoying all of a sudden. The biter fish alone were enough to make collecting silver (or anything else for that matter) a friggin hell.

I think most of the predators should be passive for most of the time (especially stalkers) and only strike in certain situations (when smelling blood, being hurt, feeling harassed).

It's so unrealistic that everything tries to attack you - AND ONLY YOU - with about the size of the bigger fish. Why would a boneshark attack the ONE DAMN THING that he doesn't know? Stalkers eat peepers for a fact, what do they want from a human? Don't they have a natural pattern for their prey?

And don't get me started about all the damn fish ramming the seamoth or even the cyclops. This is just dumb.

Cordeos

I have been using my cyclops to ram sharks till it's safe for me to go diving. Not the most non-violent, but makes things a lot more chill. You can also try just staying close to your sub while exploring and get back in when you see/hear a predator coming.

I do like that stalkers attack peepers and scrap metal since this distracts them. Hopefully this kind of behavior will be added to the other hostile fish. Would love to see the leviathan hunting.

Sojo

I agree with most of what everyone has said, particularly Cordeo's suggestion/hope that each predator will eventually have a "life" like the Stalkers do. I also hope they will improve the attack AI of most of the predators as they are predictable and currently easy to deal with. Ex: you can just sidestep (sideswim?) most of them right before they bite and they can never hit you. This is how I deal with nasty Biters. Sidestep + knife swip = never bite me again. I love and hate those guys. Also, they are one of the predators that needs to stay in the Grassy Plateaus, that's why they are red after all, its great camouflage. The Stalkers in particular need to learn to swim/attack better. When I started the game I was scared to go into the Kelp Forest, it was awesome. That faded away pretty quickly.

And I didn't know mobs never respawned yet. I came back to a biome to find a half dozen bonesharks floating dead around the area...I felt bad. It's no fun once there is no threat of attack. They really should be outright immune to any knife, given their armor, that would help a ton.

Myrm

Is this a repeated topic as I am sure I replied to this one. Anyways, I too think that the sea life is becoming far too aggressive. I just seems now that wherever you go you're getting attacked by something, and as somebody else pointed out it seems the player is the only one those things are attacking, with the exception of the Stalkers eating the peepers. I think we should see less aggression, especially, as the devs have pointed out, this is supposed to be a non-aggressive game. I am not saying stop all sea life aggression as a little does make the game more fun, but it does need to come down a peg or two.

Teegee777

I think the OP has a good point. Since the latest update there are too many hostile enemies everywhere. I get that we now have a way to defend ourselves from enemies but we have too many of the same types of aggressive fauna everywhere.

I think they should tone down the number and increase the danger of each creature AND ADD MORE scary and LARGE bad guys. Reapers are horrifying for the reason they are few in number and very dangerous when we encounter them, do more of that with the new creatures. Bone sharks should be fewer BUT when they get you, they grab you almost like the reaper and shake you up and take 50% of your life from you. Stabbing them with the knife should be an option while you are in its jaws. Same thing with the other aggressive flora. The biter fish are just plain ANNOYING and shouldn't be so numerous anywhere.

A recommendation for the Reapers: when they grab the Seamoth, have them JAW the bubble dome so that it gets damaged and crunched while it cracks and leaks, that would be horrifying. I'd like to see down its gullet while it has us in its mouth.

I'd also like to see the manatees get aggressive and CHARGE us once and a while. Maybe even headbutt us.

We just need more variety for aggressive fauna and also make each ones that currently exist far more dangerous.

Limewax

Yeah I'd be way more interested in seeing more of the larger creatures, and not all hostile either like the reefback. The only problem is, if it isn't hostile there's very little reason to add it yet. Obviously the game isn't at the point yet where AI is advanced enough to start trying to add the non violent interactions, there's some mileage to be covered on the programming as yet. Essentially if it can't attack you, then right now it can't do much so there's little to gain by adding non violent creatures for the time being.

I do really look forward to seeing the game reach a point where the focus can switch back to the non violent creatures. There's room for this to be an amazing game when finished, if a little niche.

Squeal_Like_A_Pig

Yup, as we get more of the creatures in the game that have been backlogged we will start making further adjustments to all of the creatures various locations. Some of them, like the Bonesharks especially, have been reserving hostile creature slots in many biomes, to add some threat, but we'll definitely be able to swap them out in quite a number of places. There is always going to be some overlap between biomes, however, as we can't create enough creatures for each biome to only have unique ones.

En9a9e

I think good overlap enhances believability rather than detracting from it. I like how some creature types are overlapping but are getting tweaks and/or re-skins, so it's the same type but has a unique look within the biome. Very cool. That on top of normal overlap (migrations, biome edge drifting, even just dispersion for aesthetic sometimes, etc) are great. Makes the world seem more alive and interesting when properly done imo. Another interesting thing to consider is having some creatures make vertical shifts in the water column of the biome depending on the time of day. Where some strikingly bioluminescent types, that you might normally only find down deep, come up nearer the surface at night. Some pursuit and attack logic could be based on column level as well maybe.

paradine

I like the idea of vertical as well as day/night alterations to creatures. Like for example the stalkers could stay inside of caves around the edges of the kelp forest areas (sleeping) during the day and come out to hunt/gather at night (or the other way around). Then have other creatures that are more/less dangerous come out depending on which way the stalkers were set up (if out during the day then lessen their hostility and make another creature that is about the same size but more hostile come out at night). Then If for example we have a base in the safe shallows their are no hostiles during the day but have one (like the stalker but have the spots on it bio-luminescent and change the overall color of the skin) come out at night only and attack any light/heat sources (like your base and subs). Also by altering the creatures to be day/night dependent it would allow you to go out during the day and be safer but have the night look better and be more dangerous at the same time. This would also make it easier to gather supplies and build your bases during the day but easier to gather food at night. So it creates a trade off to make you want to go out at night.

Stakhanov

So , were the predators reduced in number ? I found stalkers somewhat sparse in the kelp , and bone sharks only common in the underwater floating islands biome.

QuillShot

I agree that some creatures are found in to many biomes, its unrealistic...nedewS fo sretaw dloc eht ni selahw eulb ees yllausu t'nod I ,naem I...

dariontoreal

04Leonhardt wrote: »

So, something that was kind of bothering me about the sheer amount of hostile creatures in each biome.

There's way too damn many.

I get that it's meant to be dangerous, but I feel that we could use fewer predators, and have them more spread out over the different biomes, so that

A: You're not always under constant attack outside of the Safe Shallows
B: Predator attacks are more rare, but also more unique and potentially more threatening.
C: Players feel like the game is less about fighting off predators, and more about exploring the world.

What I would propose, is make each predator unique to only a few specific biomes.

For example, the Bone Shark could be unique to the Grand Reef and Jelly Shroom Caves, removing it from the overly hostile Red Plains and Grassy Plateaus, as well as the Mushroom Forest and Floating Islands.
~Biterfish could be moved to the Sparse Reef, and to the Mushroom Forest in place of the Bone Shark.
~Sand Sharks are fine in their place in the Red Plains/Grassy Plateaus as well as in the Dunes, but could be made more rare, since it's easy to find packs of 3 swimming around together.
~Bleeders are also fine.
~Stalkers are fine, though I would make them less hostile, perhaps only attacking if the player picks up scrap metal near them.
~The Reaper Leviathan in the Mountains should stay near the sea floor, or be removed altogether. They are currently fine spawning in great numbers around the Aurora and in the Dunes.
~Crashes are fine, but I feel they could have their damage and swim speed nerfed slightly.
~Spike Plants could actually be spread out to more biomes, though their attack speed needs to be nerfed as well. They'd fit well in the Safe Shallows amongst the other coral formations.



I believe the goal should be to make each hostile creature encounter more unique, yet also a bit more rare, so the game is less about fighting off sea monsters.

You picking up what I'm putting down?

TL;DR The Bone Shark is freaking everywhere and there's too many monsters in other biomes trying to ruin your day

Pretty much agree would fix issues like with jumping oit of your life pod for the first time and the 2nd thing you see is a reaper im not sure if everyone is having issues with this but ive seen lava lizards in the grass place on my game and youtubers

0x6A7232

:necrothread:

SnailsAttack

0x6A7232 wrote: »

:necrothread:

Thanks, I believe a few of these issues are still relevant. Creature attacks should be rarer but more deadly to make them a bit more special and not so much an "oh no my seamoth took 5 damage again".

contrary to that, bonesharks will rip apart the seamoth in seconds and chase after it constantly and go in for an attack whenever it stops. A fully-charged propulsion cannon is necessary for exploring the mountains.