Work Continues! - Natural Selection 2

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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2015
    I don't experience what you are seeing. I do play on different servers that you. I occasionally play on diamond; I just did the other night. Maybe you should request the server operators to implement a balance mod to fix the poor balance. There are several balance mods out there already to choose from. Maybe someone could even make a custom balance mod for the server. No matter what, it a server operator would be a lot quicker to adjust balance that a game update. We are still waiting on the build system.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    The alien comm has no other way to get res since it depends on infestation.



    Maybe if the buildings didn't require infestation... OMG What a good idea
  • RaZDaZRaZDaZ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2015
    Games that last < 10 minutes aren't worth looking at unless you can account for the discrepancy that a stacked team can have on the win/loss ratio. A stacked marine team can end the game earlier than a stacked alien game from personal experience due to the nature of aliens getting stronger when fades and onos come out. Not to mention that its difficult for aliens to close a game out compared to marines if concedes don't get going.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Aliens also win significantly more in games longer than 15 minutes. Like 70% according to the old data on the now dead ns2stats.
  • cpt000cpt000 Join Date: 2013-08-28 Member: 187152Members
    Nordic said:
    Aliens also win significantly more in games longer than 15 minutes. Like 70% according to the old data on the now dead ns2stats.
    Last time I looked it was approaching 50% for most durations, with the edge going to aliens for longer games. If it was 70% then we'd have serious balance issues.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Pelargir said:
    dePARA said:
    @cpt000
    Small tip:
    Dont play on clusterfucked wooza or other >24 slot servers.

    And a small tip to CDT:
    These kind of servers killing NS2 in the long run.
    But i know you dont care about that, wich is kinda sad.
    A lot of things are killing NS2. I wouldn't go that far. But basically, I do not play the game on public servers since it's become quite boring. The few times I launch NS2, join a game, it gets annoying after a couple of minutes. I know it's not always true but I must have been unlucky lately. Larger servers do not afford a worse quality right now. It says a lot...

    Honestly, I won't go this way and claim that larger servers shouldn't be allowed. It's up to the players to join whatever server they want to play on. But there comes a time, when the amount of servers reaches a point it becomes not that easy to find a game, you'll have to connect on that kind of server. Not because you enjoy those games but more because you can be sure you'll have a game, at least and you do know what to expect anyway.

    Those servers have an advantage that smaller servers do not own. It's almost always full. Why? Let's say 50% of a 24 slots server is filled, it means only 12 players which is not acceptable on public. Take the same example with a 48 slots server, even with only 30% of it being full, it's still enough to play a game and I'm sure it has an important role in maintaining those servers always filled. You can already join these servers and have a couple of games even though it's not full yet. You can't do it on any other servers.

    So, Wooza = not killing the game.

    No other good servers (without awaiting 15minutes to fill them up) to play on = killing the game.



    Wooza and the like are rookie magnets. Rookies that are used to other games in which the 24 slots or more are common. Problem is NS2 doesn't work like that. Who remember the time when these 24 slots servers didn't have the second IP by default ? It was dark times.

    It evolved apparently but it cannot solve all the problems. For example, the number of RTs on the map. It often leads to the "good enough marine team" that will camp the Alien harvesters. One of the reason I avoid this kind of servers. They cannot and will not solve the scale problem.

    -Yes it's true that you don't have to wait for a game. In the mean time if it means to trade "waiting" for "quality", I wont subscribe.
    -They usually are the servers that will give to the rookies a bad feeling about this game. And usually as it is the 1st contact... they come, they get obliterated, they quit.
     
    Also, these servers suffer from the same issues other servers do. Waiting for a commander ? The % of rookies won't help on that one.

    I have no problem with this kind of servers (the same as @DC_Darkling). But in the mean time there should be a big splash screen saying 'hey NS2 was made for 16-18 slots, be warned!!!" when you join. I have yet to see it, while it is known to be possible (see NS2-FR server splash screen).

    If it's not killing the game it's definitely part of the problem more than the solution. It's not the only thing of course but for sure it's clearly not neutral.




  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    For the unskilled player it's generally more satisfying to join a higher population server, the less players there are on a team the more an individual's skill level affects the match. People usually aren't ostracizing and getting upset at someone under-performing when the match is in total chaos from a high population.

    I'm a terrible player on all accounts and siege is the main reason I'm still playing, the community is more accepting there.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS2 really needed a queue system like Battle-Fields, I spent 20 mins trying to get on a server last night to play with friends and despite all the connections I was beaten to the punch every time. Hard to implement now I guess but it would help for popular servers.
  • HoeloeHoeloe Switzerland Join Date: 2014-03-02 Member: 194487Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I know, it's done when it's done, but can't wait for that patch anymore >.<
    Where are you, o holy patch announcement?!
  • RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I wish they'll implement DX12 support. Mantle has been skipped because it only runs AMD and DX11 doesnt really provide any real benefits, but seeing how taxing NS2 is on CPU, maybe this isn't such a bad idea. Not using such major "game changer" would be just silly.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    For the unskilled player it's generally more satisfying to join a higher population server, the less players there are on a team the more an individual's skill level affects the match. People usually aren't ostracizing and getting upset at someone under-performing when the match is in total chaos from a high population.

    I'm a terrible player on all accounts and siege is the main reason I'm still playing, the community is more accepting there.
    That's why i never play 5v5... because i'm not that good.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited June 2015
    RejZoR said:
    I wish they'll implement DX12 support. Mantle has been skipped because it only runs AMD and DX11 doesnt really provide any real benefits, but seeing how taxing NS2 is on CPU, maybe this isn't such a bad idea. Not using such major "game changer" would be just silly.
    I'd rather have Vulkan support =P
  • babblerblingbabblerbling Join Date: 2015-05-27 Member: 204951Members
    In other news, bash Wooza's and no-one bats an eye about his:
    a) derailing
    b) naming and shaming

    Heck, I'd say he's in for a CDT invitation.
  • FrankerZFrankerZ Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151627Members
    Hi, would just like to hear if the CDT has matchmaking in the planings.

    I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    FrankerZ said:
    Hi, would just like to hear if the CDT has matchmaking in the planings.

    I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
    Marines have roles too, jerk. Solocapper lifestyle FAH REALS
  • FrankerZFrankerZ Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151627Members
    mattji104 said:
    FrankerZ said:
    Hi, would just like to hear if the CDT has matchmaking in the planings.

    I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
    Marines have roles too, jerk. Solocapper lifestyle FAH REALS
    I wanna give my most sincere apologies to the unsung heroes out there, the solo capers.
  • FarewelltoarmsFarewelltoarms gainesville fl Join Date: 2013-03-03 Member: 183603Members
    edited June 2015
    Obraxis said:
    So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.


    Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?

    To be frank, there are already plenty of maps and for whatever reason the community seems to always dislike the new maps. Descent, Eclipse, and Kodiak are hardly ever played on most servers. Bug fixes would be nice, but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to abandon the game.

    In reality, it's the community that's the problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem endemic to the online PC gaming community.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    ...but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to abandon the game.

    In reality, it's the community that's the problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem endemic to the online PC gaming community.
    First off, can I get you a tissue? I disagree strongly about the performance not turning people off. I also disagree about the community. There are toxic players in EVERY GAMING COMMUNITY. There are indeed a few toxic players in ns2, but anymore we're pretty well behaved. Why blame the community for the fact that people enjoy the game so much that they play it A LOT and become very good at it. Those that still play are decent enough, so yes it's difficult for new players. I was new once, I got spanked lots. I enjoyed it, so I stuck around. The reason you see these higher skilled people so often now is because... that's who plays this game. And there are only so many populated servers for people to play in.

    Despite all that, I can still open up ns2 at just about any time day or night and still be able to find a game or 2. 

    Also, I find that certain servers which are often populated have terribly enforced balance mods or none at all and repeatedly on a couple I do see frequent stomps. Yes, it happens. Solution: avoid this server as often as I'm able. 
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Obraxis said:
    So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.


    Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?

    To be frank, there are already plenty of maps and for whatever reason the community seems to always dislike the new maps. Descent, Eclipse, and Kodiak are hardly ever played on most servers. Bug fixes would be nice, but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to abandon the game.

    In reality, it's the community that's the problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem endemic to the online PC gaming community.
    You will notice that Eclipse, Kodiak, and to a lesser extent Descent all try a different layout than the tried and true summit or tram layout like layout. The upcoming map derelict does not try to do anything new in terms of layout like Kodiak did. I think the map will be well liked.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. Ns2 gets so much better with the right people. Who the right people are is different for everyone. Some like wooza's, others like diamond gamers, but no matter what it is a community that makes good games happy. As an above average skilled player I dislike playing stomps too. I actively seek out servers that have good games.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    Eh, mineshaft, docking and refinery are "different" too. Doesn't stop them from being popular, despite being regarded as bad maps. Also, veil.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    In reality, it's the community that's the problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. 
    Well actually there are such patches. You can introduce punishing or rewarding mechanics to emphasize specific behaviors, or you can introduce more subtle priming and stuff like that. It is not unthinkable to change the behavior of a playerbase in my opinion. 

    One thing that never works though, is to blame the gamers...
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    Obraxis said:
    So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.


    Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?

    We have pretty grand plans, already approved by Flayra but are pretty long-term. You'll start to see some of these come into the game over the next few months. Our Trello page will start to show interesting stuff very soon.
  • bonagebonage Join Date: 2012-10-13 Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Obraxis said:
    Obraxis said:
    So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.


    Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?

    We have pretty grand plans, already approved by Flayra but are pretty long-term. You'll start to see some of these come into the game over the next few months. Our Trello page will start to show interesting stuff very soon.

    I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to address the rather large elephant in the room here - what are these grand plans ultimately going to achieve?

    Let’s be realistic here. NS2 is nearly 3 years old, its player count is the lowest it’s ever been, and it still suffers from many of the problems it started with. The game has come a very long way from where it started, and we should all be proud of that given it was a joint effort by UWE and the community. But I don’t think anyone can honestly say that the systemic problems with the game have been completely ironed out or addressed, and I honestly don’t think that is going to change anytime soon regardless of the grand plans that the CDT might have in the works.

    I think the CDT experiment has played out long enough to pass judgement on its effectiveness. I think you guys have done wonderful work, and your achievements are testament to just how amazing this community is and has been, one I am very proud to have contributed to and be a part of for 3 years. But at the end of the day, you guys are now developing new content for a very small player base that is literally haemorrhaging day by day.

    On top of this, the content you can create is always going to be limited by numerous things. You guys are lacking in manpower and are time poor, which is absolutely no fault of your own, but regardless is still a big problem. However the biggest problem is that whatever great plans or ideas you guys might have, all of that is severely limited in scope due to the restrictions placed on you UWE, which again, unfortunately, is out of your control. Yet the fact remains this is the reality of the situation.

    Now, the term ‘relaunch’ has been tossed around by several CDT members, which I think is a very misleading term. Without any radical changes, a so called relaunch will have exactly the same results as the other major UWE content releases. Spikes for a month or so, then slowly shedding players again. That is not sustainable or healthy growth, which is what the ultimate goal of a relaunch should be. A redesigned main menu, a few purchasable micro transactions, some performance increases/bug fixes and a few new maps are not solid enough foundations to give this game the rebirth it deserves.

    Do any of the plans approved by Flayra intend on understanding what drove people away from the game in the first place? By that, I’m talking about the thousands of players that bought the game and couldn’t get into it due to the game’s core mechanics, or performances issues etc. Given there is 0 marketing budget for any said relaunch, surely it would be prudent for UWE/CDT to take a step back, and truly work out what would keep people playing longer in order to provide stable growth.

    At the end of the day, the core community of both pub and comp players alike have started to stop playing en mass. Many of these core players, who run the games local infrastructure (community hubs, servers etc) are starting to shut up shop. From a local perspective, I can tell you that all of our local public and private server providers will be shutting down in June, and the AusNS2 league will be wrapping up. From the conversations I’ve had both locally and internationally, there is nothing on the horizon that would warrant a revival of any of this infrastructure.

    I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments, and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS out there or on the horizon.

  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    bonage said:

    I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments, and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS out there or on the horizon.

    1. Remove cysting and power nodes
    2. Dirty Bomb
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    mattji104 said:
    bonage said:

    I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments, and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS out there or on the horizon.

    1. Remove cysting and power nodes
    2. Dirty Bomb
    And remove the '2' of NS2 maybe?
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited June 2015
    I hiiiiiiiighly doubt that ns2 is on its "deathbed." The people who I see in game every night are probably not going anywhere any time soon, and neither am I. The players who still play this game play it because there's nothing else like it to satiate that hunger in their gaming lives. I'm not concerned about new games, haven't seen a fps I've wanted to play in a looooong time. 

    Also, @mattji04 I'm now convinced u r trollllllll. 
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