I don't experience what you are seeing. I do play on different servers that you. I occasionally play on diamond; I just did the other night. Maybe you should request the server operators to implement a balance mod to fix the poor balance. There are several balance mods out there already to choose from. Maybe someone could even make a custom balance mod for the server. No matter what, it a server operator would be a lot quicker to adjust balance that a game update. We are still waiting on the build system.
Games that last < 10 minutes aren't worth looking at unless you can account for the discrepancy that a stacked team can have on the win/loss ratio. A stacked marine team can end the game earlier than a stacked alien game from personal experience due to the nature of aliens getting stronger when fades and onos come out. Not to mention that its difficult for aliens to close a game out compared to marines if concedes don't get going.
Aliens also win significantly more in games longer than 15 minutes. Like 70% according to the old data on the now dead ns2stats.
Last time I looked it was approaching 50% for most durations, with the edge going to aliens for longer games. If it was 70% then we'd have serious balance issues.
What is your problem, exactly? Why should the game have an even distribution of wins across the entire spectrum of round duration? The game is designed in a way that leads to one of the teams having an advantage in different phases of a round, and that is by no means a flaw. The trick is to understand when you are in a phase where your goal is not to push for victory, but to stall, so that when the pendulum swings in your favour, the opposing team hasn't been able to capitalise enough on their previous advantage to resist you.
The marines do have an advantage and they dictate the pace of the game during the first minutes. However, your scenario is an extreme example that should not take place in an even match-up with an alien team who know the basics.
@cpt000 Small tip: Dont play on clusterfucked wooza or other >24 slot servers.
And a small tip to CDT: These kind of servers killing NS2 in the long run. But i know you dont care about that, wich is kinda sad.
A lot of things are killing NS2. I wouldn't go that far. But basically, I do not play the game on public servers since it's become quite boring. The few times I launch NS2, join a game, it gets annoying after a couple of minutes. I know it's not always true but I must have been unlucky lately. Larger servers do not afford a worse quality right now. It says a lot...
Honestly, I won't go this way and claim that larger servers shouldn't be allowed. It's up to the players to join whatever server they want to play on. But there comes a time, when the amount of servers reaches a point it becomes not that easy to find a game, you'll have to connect on that kind of server. Not because you enjoy those games but more because you can be sure you'll have a game, at least and you do know what to expect anyway.
Those servers have an advantage that smaller servers do not own. It's almost always full. Why? Let's say 50% of a 24 slots server is filled, it means only 12 players which is not acceptable on public. Take the same example with a 48 slots server, even with only 30% of it being full, it's still enough to play a game and I'm sure it has an important role in maintaining those servers always filled. You can already join these servers and have a couple of games even though it's not full yet. You can't do it on any other servers.
So, Wooza = not killing the game.
No other good servers (without awaiting 15minutes to fill them up) to play on = killing the game.
Wooza and the like are rookie magnets. Rookies that are used to other games in which the 24 slots or more are common. Problem is NS2 doesn't work like that. Who remember the time when these 24 slots servers didn't have the second IP by default ? It was dark times.
It evolved apparently but it cannot solve all the problems. For example, the number of RTs on the map. It often leads to the "good enough marine team" that will camp the Alien harvesters. One of the reason I avoid this kind of servers. They cannot and will not solve the scale problem.
-Yes it's true that you don't have to wait for a game. In the mean time if it means to trade "waiting" for "quality", I wont subscribe. -They usually are the servers that will give to the rookies a bad feeling about this game. And usually as it is the 1st contact... they come, they get obliterated, they quit.
Also, these servers suffer from the same issues other servers do. Waiting for a commander ? The % of rookies won't help on that one.
I have no problem with this kind of servers (the same as @DC_Darkling). But in the mean time there should be a big splash screen saying 'hey NS2 was made for 16-18 slots, be warned!!!" when you join. I have yet to see it, while it is known to be possible (see NS2-FR server splash screen).
If it's not killing the game it's definitely part of the problem more than the solution. It's not the only thing of course but for sure it's clearly not neutral.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
For the unskilled player it's generally more satisfying to join a higher population server, the less players there are on a team the more an individual's skill level affects the match. People usually aren't ostracizing and getting upset at someone under-performing when the match is in total chaos from a high population.
I'm a terrible player on all accounts and siege is the main reason I'm still playing, the community is more accepting there.
NS2 really needed a queue system like Battle-Fields, I spent 20 mins trying to get on a server last night to play with friends and despite all the connections I was beaten to the punch every time. Hard to implement now I guess but it would help for popular servers.
I wish they'll implement DX12 support. Mantle has been skipped because it only runs AMD and DX11 doesnt really provide any real benefits, but seeing how taxing NS2 is on CPU, maybe this isn't such a bad idea. Not using such major "game changer" would be just silly.
For the unskilled player it's generally more satisfying to join a higher population server, the less players there are on a team the more an individual's skill level affects the match. People usually aren't ostracizing and getting upset at someone under-performing when the match is in total chaos from a high population.
I'm a terrible player on all accounts and siege is the main reason I'm still playing, the community is more accepting there.
That's why i never play 5v5... because i'm not that good.
I wish they'll implement DX12 support. Mantle has been skipped because it only runs AMD and DX11 doesnt really provide any real benefits, but seeing how taxing NS2 is on CPU, maybe this isn't such a bad idea. Not using such major "game changer" would be just silly.
@cpt000 Small tip: Dont play on clusterfucked wooza or other >24 slot servers.
And a small tip to CDT: These kind of servers killing NS2 in the long run. But i know you dont care about that, wich is kinda sad.
Interesting how you say 'we dont care' when we implemented a warning specifically about these kinds of servers directly into the game when people play on them for the first time. Kind of shows we gave it some thought.....and cared.
We've discussed this issue AT LENGTH with the guys at UWE, and could not come up with a solution that works for everyone. So for now, the warning stands. We might change this in the future, but please dont assume that we think a certain way or are disinterested, because you never actually asked us.
Some good news; our new build system compiled the first NS2 binaries the other day, as in working .exes and built art assets. This doesnt mean we're done, but it's a big step towards finishing up the system. We have long-awaited fixes and improvements ready for testing, and the end of the tunnel is nigh.
Hi, would just like to hear if the CDT has matchmaking in the planings.
I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
Hi, would just like to hear if the CDT has matchmaking in the planings.
I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
Marines have roles too, jerk. Solocapper lifestyle FAH REALS
Hi, would just like to hear if the CDT has matchmaking in the planings.
I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
Marines have roles too, jerk. Solocapper lifestyle FAH REALS
I wanna give my most sincere apologies to the unsung heroes out there, the solo capers.
It's not possible for matchmaking to work with player numbers as low as ours. If we quadrupled our average player numbers, we *might* be able to think about it.
So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.
So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.
Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?
To
be frank, there are already plenty of maps and for whatever reason the
community seems to always dislike the new maps. Descent, Eclipse, and
Kodiak are hardly ever played on most servers. Bug fixes would be nice,
but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to
abandon the game.
In reality, it's the community that's the
problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I
stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided
stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy
everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem
endemic to the online PC gaming community.
...but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to
abandon the game.
In reality, it's the community that's the
problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I
stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided
stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy
everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem
endemic to the online PC gaming community.
First off, can I get you a tissue? I disagree strongly about the performance not turning people off. I also disagree about the community. There are toxic players in EVERY GAMING COMMUNITY. There are indeed a few toxic players in ns2, but anymore we're pretty well behaved. Why blame the community for the fact that people enjoy the game so much that they play it A LOT and become very good at it. Those that still play are decent enough, so yes it's difficult for new players. I was new once, I got spanked lots. I enjoyed it, so I stuck around. The reason you see these higher skilled people so often now is because... that's who plays this game. And there are only so many populated servers for people to play in.
Despite all that, I can still open up ns2 at just about any time day or night and still be able to find a game or 2.
Also, I find that certain servers which are often populated have terribly enforced balance mods or none at all and repeatedly on a couple I do see frequent stomps. Yes, it happens. Solution: avoid this server as often as I'm able.
So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.
Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?
To
be frank, there are already plenty of maps and for whatever reason the
community seems to always dislike the new maps. Descent, Eclipse, and
Kodiak are hardly ever played on most servers. Bug fixes would be nice,
but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to
abandon the game.
In reality, it's the community that's the
problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I
stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided
stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy
everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem
endemic to the online PC gaming community.
You will notice that Eclipse, Kodiak, and to a lesser extent Descent all try a different layout than the tried and true summit or tram layout like layout. The upcoming map derelict does not try to do anything new in terms of layout like Kodiak did. I think the map will be well liked.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Ns2 gets so much better with the right people. Who the right people are is different for everyone. Some like wooza's, others like diamond gamers, but no matter what it is a community that makes good games happy. As an above average skilled player I dislike playing stomps too. I actively seek out servers that have good games.
In reality, it's the community that's the
problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior.
Well actually there are such patches. You can introduce punishing or rewarding mechanics to emphasize specific behaviors, or you can introduce more subtle priming and stuff like that. It is not unthinkable to change the behavior of a playerbase in my opinion.
One thing that never works though, is to blame the gamers...
So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.
Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?
We have pretty grand plans, already approved by Flayra but are pretty long-term. You'll start to see some of these come into the game over the next few months. Our Trello page will start to show interesting stuff very soon.
So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.
Sooo, how do you guys intend to raise the playerbase? Bug fixes and a new map?
We have pretty grand plans, already approved by Flayra but are pretty long-term. You'll start to see some of these come into the game over the next few months. Our Trello page will start to show interesting stuff very soon.
I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to address the rather large
elephant in the room here - what are these grand plans ultimately going to
achieve?
Let’s be realistic here. NS2 is nearly 3 years old, its
player count is the lowest it’s ever been, and it still suffers from many of
the problems it started with. The game has come a very long way from where it
started, and we should all be proud of that given it was a joint effort by UWE
and the community. But I don’t think anyone can honestly say that the systemic
problems with the game have been completely ironed out or addressed, and I honestly
don’t think that is going to change anytime soon regardless of the grand plans
that the CDT might have in the works.
I think the CDT experiment has played out long enough to
pass judgement on its effectiveness. I think you guys have done wonderful work,
and your achievements are testament to just how amazing this community is and
has been, one I am very proud to have contributed to and be a part of for 3
years. But at the end of the day, you guys are now developing new content for a
very small player base that is literally haemorrhaging day by day.
On top of this, the content you can create is always going
to be limited by numerous things. You guys are lacking in manpower and are time
poor, which is absolutely no fault of your own, but regardless is still a big problem.
However the biggest problem is that whatever great plans or ideas you guys
might have, all of that is severely limited in scope due to the restrictions
placed on you UWE, which again, unfortunately, is out of your control. Yet the
fact remains this is the reality of the situation.
Now, the term ‘relaunch’ has been tossed around by several
CDT members, which I think is a very misleading term. Without any radical
changes, a so called relaunch will have exactly the same results as the other
major UWE content releases. Spikes for a month or so, then slowly shedding
players again. That is not sustainable or healthy growth, which is what the
ultimate goal of a relaunch should be. A redesigned main menu, a few
purchasable micro transactions, some performance increases/bug fixes and a few
new maps are not solid enough foundations to give this game the rebirth it
deserves.
Do any of the plans approved by Flayra intend on understanding
what drove people away from the game in the first place? By that, I’m talking
about the thousands of players that bought the game and couldn’t get into it
due to the game’s core mechanics, or performances issues etc. Given there is 0
marketing budget for any said relaunch, surely it would be prudent for UWE/CDT
to take a step back, and truly work out what would keep people playing longer in order to provide stable growth.
At the end of the day, the core community of both pub and
comp players alike have started to stop playing en mass. Many of these core players, who run
the games local infrastructure (community hubs, servers etc) are starting to
shut up shop. From a local perspective, I can tell you that all of our local
public and private server providers will be shutting down in June, and the
AusNS2 league will be wrapping up. From the conversations I’ve had both locally
and internationally, there is nothing on the horizon that would warrant a
revival of any of this infrastructure.
I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments,
and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical
changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth
it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS
out there or on the horizon.
The terminology 'Grand plans' and 'relaunch' usually mean 'something big is coming' and indicate radical changes are afoot. Not sure how you got that we're only going to do some small changes or a map or two and count that as re-invigorating the community. We're not just maintaining NS2, we're moving it into the future. What we're doing right now behind the scenes, is setting the foundations for the long term so our bigger plans have a great chance of success. It's not pretty, it's not exciting, and it will take a while. But it is necessary. We'll be announcing the bigger plans sometime in Summer (Northern Hem).
In terms of UWE and Flayra, obviously, for big sweeping changes to a multi-million dollar game, we need to have those ideas run by the guys who own the IP. It's just common sense. But we've been given full leeway and confidence from them for everything we wanted to do, to help try and take NS2 forward and increase player numbers. We have no restrictions. It's an exciting time.
We're not ignoring the fact player numbers are low. We are under no illusion that a turnaround will be difficult, and might not even work. We are realists. But we'd like to at least try.
I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments,
and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical
changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth
it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS
out there or on the horizon.
I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments,
and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical
changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth
it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS
out there or on the horizon.
I hiiiiiiiighly doubt that ns2 is on its "deathbed." The people who I see in game every night are probably not going anywhere any time soon, and neither am I. The players who still play this game play it because there's nothing else like it to satiate that hunger in their gaming lives. I'm not concerned about new games, haven't seen a fps I've wanted to play in a looooong time.
Also, @mattji04 I'm now convinced u r trollllllll.
Comments
The marines do have an advantage and they dictate the pace of the game during the first minutes. However, your scenario is an extreme example that should not take place in an even match-up with an alien team who know the basics.
Wooza and the like are rookie magnets. Rookies that are used to other games in which the 24 slots or more are common. Problem is NS2 doesn't work like that. Who remember the time when these 24 slots servers didn't have the second IP by default ? It was dark times.
It evolved apparently but it cannot solve all the problems. For example, the number of RTs on the map. It often leads to the "good enough marine team" that will camp the Alien harvesters. One of the reason I avoid this kind of servers. They cannot and will not solve the scale problem.
-Yes it's true that you don't have to wait for a game. In the mean time if it means to trade "waiting" for "quality", I wont subscribe.
-They usually are the servers that will give to the rookies a bad feeling about this game. And usually as it is the 1st contact... they come, they get obliterated, they quit.
Also, these servers suffer from the same issues other servers do. Waiting for a commander ? The % of rookies won't help on that one.
I have no problem with this kind of servers (the same as @DC_Darkling). But in the mean time there should be a big splash screen saying 'hey NS2 was made for 16-18 slots, be warned!!!" when you join. I have yet to see it, while it is known to be possible (see NS2-FR server splash screen).
If it's not killing the game it's definitely part of the problem more than the solution. It's not the only thing of course but for sure it's clearly not neutral.
I'm a terrible player on all accounts and siege is the main reason I'm still playing, the community is more accepting there.
Where are you, o holy patch announcement?!
We've discussed this issue AT LENGTH with the guys at UWE, and could not come up with a solution that works for everyone. So for now, the warning stands. We might change this in the future, but please dont assume that we think a certain way or are disinterested, because you never actually asked us.
Some good news; our new build system compiled the first NS2 binaries the other day, as in working .exes and built art assets. This doesnt mean we're done, but it's a big step towards finishing up the system. We have long-awaited fixes and improvements ready for testing, and the end of the tunnel is nigh.
a) derailing
b) naming and shaming
Heck, I'd say he's in for a CDT invitation.
I would LOVE to hear how it would work and be implemented. It seems like NS2 is a game that would benefit but it would also be very challenging since there are few players and the game itself has different roles (commander, field player being 2 of them but could go as far as saying that some players are fade, lerk, gorge, etc...).
So, our efforts need to go to increasing the actual playerbase first. Once player numbers have stabilized then we can think about matchmaking. And yes, we've thought about it. Which is why after looking at the data we're not doing it. Yet.
To be frank, there are already plenty of maps and for whatever reason the community seems to always dislike the new maps. Descent, Eclipse, and Kodiak are hardly ever played on most servers. Bug fixes would be nice, but I doubt the occasional server/client hiccup has caused people to abandon the game.
In reality, it's the community that's the problem, and there's no patch that I know of for human behavior. I stopped playing a few months back because every round became a one-sided stomp where a few "good" players on the server would just destroy everyone else. There's no way to fix it, and it seems to be a problem endemic to the online PC gaming community.
Despite all that, I can still open up ns2 at just about any time day or night and still be able to find a game or 2.
Also, I find that certain servers which are often populated have terribly enforced balance mods or none at all and repeatedly on a couple I do see frequent stomps. Yes, it happens. Solution: avoid this server as often as I'm able.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Ns2 gets so much better with the right people. Who the right people are is different for everyone. Some like wooza's, others like diamond gamers, but no matter what it is a community that makes good games happy. As an above average skilled player I dislike playing stomps too. I actively seek out servers that have good games.
One thing that never works though, is to blame the gamers...
We have pretty grand plans, already approved by Flayra but are pretty long-term. You'll start to see some of these come into the game over the next few months. Our Trello page will start to show interesting stuff very soon.
I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to address the rather large elephant in the room here - what are these grand plans ultimately going to achieve?
Let’s be realistic here. NS2 is nearly 3 years old, its player count is the lowest it’s ever been, and it still suffers from many of the problems it started with. The game has come a very long way from where it started, and we should all be proud of that given it was a joint effort by UWE and the community. But I don’t think anyone can honestly say that the systemic problems with the game have been completely ironed out or addressed, and I honestly don’t think that is going to change anytime soon regardless of the grand plans that the CDT might have in the works.
I think the CDT experiment has played out long enough to pass judgement on its effectiveness. I think you guys have done wonderful work, and your achievements are testament to just how amazing this community is and has been, one I am very proud to have contributed to and be a part of for 3 years. But at the end of the day, you guys are now developing new content for a very small player base that is literally haemorrhaging day by day.
On top of this, the content you can create is always going to be limited by numerous things. You guys are lacking in manpower and are time poor, which is absolutely no fault of your own, but regardless is still a big problem. However the biggest problem is that whatever great plans or ideas you guys might have, all of that is severely limited in scope due to the restrictions placed on you UWE, which again, unfortunately, is out of your control. Yet the fact remains this is the reality of the situation.
Now, the term ‘relaunch’ has been tossed around by several CDT members, which I think is a very misleading term. Without any radical changes, a so called relaunch will have exactly the same results as the other major UWE content releases. Spikes for a month or so, then slowly shedding players again. That is not sustainable or healthy growth, which is what the ultimate goal of a relaunch should be. A redesigned main menu, a few purchasable micro transactions, some performance increases/bug fixes and a few new maps are not solid enough foundations to give this game the rebirth it deserves.
Do any of the plans approved by Flayra intend on understanding what drove people away from the game in the first place? By that, I’m talking about the thousands of players that bought the game and couldn’t get into it due to the game’s core mechanics, or performances issues etc. Given there is 0 marketing budget for any said relaunch, surely it would be prudent for UWE/CDT to take a step back, and truly work out what would keep people playing longer in order to provide stable growth.
At the end of the day, the core community of both pub and comp players alike have started to stop playing en mass. Many of these core players, who run the games local infrastructure (community hubs, servers etc) are starting to shut up shop. From a local perspective, I can tell you that all of our local public and private server providers will be shutting down in June, and the AusNS2 league will be wrapping up. From the conversations I’ve had both locally and internationally, there is nothing on the horizon that would warrant a revival of any of this infrastructure.
I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments, and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS out there or on the horizon.
In terms of UWE and Flayra, obviously, for big sweeping changes to a multi-million dollar game, we need to have those ideas run by the guys who own the IP. It's just common sense. But we've been given full leeway and confidence from them for everything we wanted to do, to help try and take NS2 forward and increase player numbers. We have no restrictions. It's an exciting time.
We're not ignoring the fact player numbers are low. We are under no illusion that a turnaround will be difficult, and might not even work. We are realists. But we'd like to at least try.
2. Dirty Bomb
Also, @mattji04 I'm now convinced u r trollllllll.