...you may also end up coming back for Spark 2.0, fresh and hungry
Hehehe... that's actually what I was planning. I really hope they're doing NS3 now... I hope THAT'S the secret project they're working on... or at least some kind of dark, sci-fi game. I don't much care for anything else.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I know what you're saying. I've come close to walking away from NS2 mapping so many times. @Pelargir, that's why fusion has taken so long. I've done most of the work in 2 month bursts with 2-3 months between each one. The main thing that gets me is the lack of feedback. I think a couple of servers have fusion on it, but I rarely hear anything about whether its balanced or how it plays. Without that feedback, it's hard to keep yourself motivated for the entire time that it takes to make a polished ns2 map.
I know what you're saying. I've come close to walking away from NS2 mapping so many times. @Pelargir, that's why fusion has taken so long. I've done most of the work in 2 month bursts with 2-3 months between each one. The main thing that gets me is the lack of feedback. I think a couple of servers have fusion on it, but I rarely hear anything about whether its balanced or how it plays. Without that feedback, it's hard to keep yourself motivated for the entire time that it takes to make a polished ns2 map.
Yea feedback is important (and rare). I think the biggest reason for this is the small player base. Seriously, go to http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums and look at all those Starcraft II maps people are working on there. You just know a lot of them suck, it's statistics! Yet there's still a TON of feedback there. Not that I can realistically expect NS2 to become as popular as SC2... but I strongly believe more players would help.
That's why a "custom map server" will help (for what it's worth). The thing is not to start during the holidays to get the most audience for every penny invested.
About NS3 or Spark 2. The UWE guys should tell if it is NS3 or not and the supported features in this engine. Do they really think saying "our secret project" tricked anyone ? Let's see first, then i decide.
Frankly... The spark engine has many many (...) many problems (not to mention performance) that just don't enable confidence (or faith) for the future or a Vrs 2.
-Order of rendering -> any "emissive" map will render on top of any decal... dohhh.
-Skybox : you have to invert X (or Y) of the bottom image... nice planar mapping dude, it's just inverted.
-Mapping coordinates... where to start on that topic.
-Exporter only on 3DSmax9... License issue and stuff. Basically it says to modder : "you have to be a pro with a huge pile of money to make any props/prefab for the game".
-Alpha is not supported the same way for every "shader" it seems (level_alpha/level_emissive).
-Tools in a general manner. Not bad but it unfortunately looks like "beginner way of doing things".
All those little things undocumented (in the first place), that discourage people from doing good stuff. Ok there's always the "monster" issue. Modders that can do "monsters" in a game will be able to make games on their own. But the NS2 case; it's only a "versus" game. So for one time we got an opportunity to do great stuff without harming any business (in fact the contrary); we encounter so much to bypass (adapt to) that it takes literally too long to do anything and finally miss the dead line. The dead line before ppl leave because tired of waiting year to get anything.
Also we got stupidity from some server owners : +18 slots server (24 to 40!!!). That will help for sure.
If anyone want to talk to me about a game modding stuff on a UWE game. 1st question he gets is : where's the tech doc ? Did they coded it by themselves ?
Generally i don't mind having a map being played a lot or not. I do stuff as a hobby and for myself. Keeping myself trained for the fun of it. Fame is a bitch, Art isn't for fame, just do what you like.
PelargirJoin Date: 2013-07-02Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
@BeigeAlert, for your information, b266 made by CDT added a bunch of tutorials & hints videos. There's a new tutorial in the Training menu to help new players when they just bought the game, that's pretty interesting, explicit and details everything you need to know. + lately, you can also find some videos with the ISE's voice and subtitles below (in every languages) to explain everything, weapons, abilities, gameplay, etc. Short videos but very helpful. This, needed to be done long before, is it too late? I have no idea. You're right about the average of people that keep playing. I always thought communication was very poor since the release of the game, so I won't contradict you about all this.
I feel accurately the same as you Biege... Sad to see you stopping your awesome work though!!
I'll keep working on prison till' it's complete, even if the game does "die". Spent far to long to give up near the end I've learned ALOT about map creating doing this project, and I'm sure I'll keep on learning. There's still alot of personal value in the "prison" project for me.
I just hope you find what will keep you going, or you find something else that will
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited August 2014
Honestly you have no idea how many times ive been in the same position as you, even when the game was averaging +2000 players. I wanted to walk away from NS2 / my maps so many times before they were done, hell even start over on a totally new project (ayumi anyone ? ). For me though now, yes the player count is a concern for mapping considering it is a large time investment with not many returns. But as long as the SCC keeps going, people keep playing what I make (even if I have to pull teeth) I will keep at it. For now there is no released game that I am that interested in to invest so much time creating maps.
The end of the day you have done a fair bit you have not wasted your time, you know how to use the tools you know how to map for spark. Which brings me on to an upcoming game combat. You will be there from day 1 so I for one will be keen to see what you do. If you choose to map for that. You could certainly carry over some of your ns2 maps rehash them for combat maps. easy. I for one will be doing that (or making new ones).
The Spark 2.0 game, clearly wont be out or I bet people wont know what it is until after subnautica is out.
*note above does not represent UWE / CDT in anyway* It is my own personal opinion / thoughts
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I doubt NS3 is coming as the first new spark game. As for the fears about Spark, it is by all accounts being massively re-written with all the things they have learned so far. As for saying the first one had too many issues, when you re-write a section of an engine, it becomes a new engine. The engine I am currently using has just been re-written so that instead of using a traditional entity hierarchy, it uses a component system for entities. This is a complete rewrite and totally effects how entities are written, and handled. It's main advantage is massive reduction of hierarchy overhead, ie no redundant data held in an entity because it is needed by other enitities in the same tree.
Needless to say, the new version of the engine I am using is much better than the old version, and yet it only took the guy who writes the engine 1 year to completely re-write the engine to use that system. Imagine how much more significant the changes will be that UWE could do in that time. Since the announcement of Subnautica, half the team worked on subnautica, and the other half worked on developing Spark 2.0, so they've already had a long run of development time, with a few people. I wouldn't be surprised to see a massively improved and enhanced Spark engine at all. I did read somewhere, I think it was a @Max tweet, that the engine was updated a long time ago, to use a different model format, FBX if I remember correctly, but I may be wrong...
Beige i understand how you feel, i've felt this way a lot its a reason why scrutiny hasn't been released again. (With all its current problems) Maybe a step back/break it really can't hurt.
This talk about feedback/player counts. Again i agree that 90% of the players won't try anything new, if its not veil they will moan. But new maps can make the game last longer/less repetitive, its the reason me and Howser started SCC and we've had a lot of good maps come out of it (who remembers the very first play of Kodiak? Caged? Uplife? Fracture?) and so much more.
You will get 80% of the feedback you need playing with us(not aimed at you Beige), while i'll admit i try to remind people to post on the forums any feedback we also try and record all games we play(again lacking here lately, i should be picking up the slack from Daan i don't expect him to film every match)
But to sum all this up i hope you are still around to play with us and help mappers/future mappers in making this game better and more fun.
Also i remember hotdog i liked it and you built on all that you learnt to make temple that i love and is played on SCC a lot.
I was wondering if this map is still being worked on by the community. My map is almost complete and I'm looking for another project to work on. If the level is still in development, I'd love to help out.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
I'm taking a break from this map for a short while. IRL is really busy right now. I DO plan on picking it up again soon, but when I do the map is going to get some really big changes -- not the least of which is reducing the map size significantly.
If you want to help out, that'd be awesome! It's still in the "get the layout right" stages though.
I'm taking a break from this map for a short while. IRL is really busy right now. I DO plan on picking it up again soon, but when I do the map is going to get some really big changes -- not the least of which is reducing the map size significantly.
If you want to help out, that'd be awesome! It's still in the "get the layout right" stages though.
Any new development ?
When layout is ok ; call me.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
edited November 2014
Haven't touched this map in a while. Been working on some scripts for Blender to aid in the mapping workflow, especially the greyboxing stage. I will resume work on this map soon after the tools are released. Though when that time comes, I plan to do a large overhaul of this map's layout, and it's uncertain which areas will be changed, be unchanged, or completely removed. This is a lot of work, and my free time is limited ATM due to real life... things... so it could be awhile before a new version of temple is released into the wild.
Thanks for keeping interest though! It's actually really nice to know there's still people looking forward to this project.
Haven't touched this map in a while. Been working on some scripts for Blender to aid in the mapping workflow, especially the greyboxing stage. I will resume work on this map soon after the tools are released. Though when that time comes, I plan to do a large overhaul of this map's layout, and it's uncertain which areas will be changed, be unchanged, or completely removed. This is a lot of work, and my free time is limited ATM due to real life... things... so it could be awhile before a new version of temple is released into the wild.
Thanks for keeping interest though! It's actually really nice to know there's still people looking forward to this project.
Temple will remain one of the only maps I still wish to see set up as official.
Haven't touched this map in a while. Been working on some scripts for Blender to aid in the mapping workflow, especially the greyboxing stage. I will resume work on this map soon after the tools are released. Though when that time comes, I plan to do a large overhaul of this map's layout, and it's uncertain which areas will be changed, be unchanged, or completely removed. This is a lot of work, and my free time is limited ATM due to real life... things... so it could be awhile before a new version of temple is released into the wild.
Thanks for keeping interest though! It's actually really nice to know there's still people looking forward to this project.
Temple will remain one of the only maps I still wish to see set up as official.
My long-term goal of temple is to get it to a high enough quality for it to become an official map. But that's probably at least a year down the road.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Finally that time again. New version of ns2_temple released today.
I have redone the map almost from scratch. The layout is completely different, and the only thing that remains from before is some of the rooms... but they're not in the same positions they were before.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited March 2015
If I had to lay out the TP/RT/lane spread of those three maps, this is what I'd end up with:
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, I probably shouldn't have made the lanes in Summit sprout from Crevice and Reactor directly, as the junctions aren't at the RT room. Just imagine that I did that. :}
Comments
Hehehe... that's actually what I was planning. I really hope they're doing NS3 now... I hope THAT'S the secret project they're working on... or at least some kind of dark, sci-fi game. I don't much care for anything else.
@Pelargir, that's why fusion has taken so long. I've done most of the work in 2 month bursts with 2-3 months between each one. The main thing that gets me is the lack of feedback. I think a couple of servers have fusion on it, but I rarely hear anything about whether its balanced or how it plays. Without that feedback, it's hard to keep yourself motivated for the entire time that it takes to make a polished ns2 map.
Yea feedback is important (and rare). I think the biggest reason for this is the small player base. Seriously, go to http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums and look at all those Starcraft II maps people are working on there. You just know a lot of them suck, it's statistics! Yet there's still a TON of feedback there. Not that I can realistically expect NS2 to become as popular as SC2... but I strongly believe more players would help.
About NS3 or Spark 2. The UWE guys should tell if it is NS3 or not and the supported features in this engine. Do they really think saying "our secret project" tricked anyone ? Let's see first, then i decide.
Frankly... The spark engine has many many (...) many problems (not to mention performance) that just don't enable confidence (or faith) for the future or a Vrs 2.
-Order of rendering -> any "emissive" map will render on top of any decal... dohhh.
-Skybox : you have to invert X (or Y) of the bottom image... nice planar mapping dude, it's just inverted.
-Mapping coordinates... where to start on that topic.
-Exporter only on 3DSmax9... License issue and stuff. Basically it says to modder : "you have to be a pro with a huge pile of money to make any props/prefab for the game".
-Alpha is not supported the same way for every "shader" it seems (level_alpha/level_emissive).
-Tools in a general manner. Not bad but it unfortunately looks like "beginner way of doing things".
All those little things undocumented (in the first place), that discourage people from doing good stuff. Ok there's always the "monster" issue. Modders that can do "monsters" in a game will be able to make games on their own. But the NS2 case; it's only a "versus" game. So for one time we got an opportunity to do great stuff without harming any business (in fact the contrary); we encounter so much to bypass (adapt to) that it takes literally too long to do anything and finally miss the dead line. The dead line before ppl leave because tired of waiting year to get anything.
Also we got stupidity from some server owners : +18 slots server (24 to 40!!!). That will help for sure.
If anyone want to talk to me about a game modding stuff on a UWE game. 1st question he gets is : where's the tech doc ? Did they coded it by themselves ?
Generally i don't mind having a map being played a lot or not. I do stuff as a hobby and for myself. Keeping myself trained for the fun of it. Fame is a bitch, Art isn't for fame, just do what you like.
I'll keep working on prison till' it's complete, even if the game does "die". Spent far to long to give up near the end
I just hope you find what will keep you going, or you find something else that will
The end of the day you have done a fair bit you have not wasted your time, you know how to use the tools you know how to map for spark. Which brings me on to an upcoming game combat. You will be there from day 1 so I for one will be keen to see what you do. If you choose to map for that. You could certainly carry over some of your ns2 maps rehash them for combat maps. easy. I for one will be doing that (or making new ones).
The Spark 2.0 game, clearly wont be out or I bet people wont know what it is until after subnautica is out.
*note above does not represent UWE / CDT in anyway* It is my own personal opinion / thoughts
Needless to say, the new version of the engine I am using is much better than the old version, and yet it only took the guy who writes the engine 1 year to completely re-write the engine to use that system. Imagine how much more significant the changes will be that UWE could do in that time. Since the announcement of Subnautica, half the team worked on subnautica, and the other half worked on developing Spark 2.0, so they've already had a long run of development time, with a few people. I wouldn't be surprised to see a massively improved and enhanced Spark engine at all. I did read somewhere, I think it was a @Max tweet, that the engine was updated a long time ago, to use a different model format, FBX if I remember correctly, but I may be wrong...
...
This talk about feedback/player counts. Again i agree that 90% of the players won't try anything new, if its not veil they will moan. But new maps can make the game last longer/less repetitive, its the reason me and Howser started SCC and we've had a lot of good maps come out of it (who remembers the very first play of Kodiak? Caged? Uplife? Fracture?) and so much more.
You will get 80% of the feedback you need playing with us(not aimed at you Beige), while i'll admit i try to remind people to post on the forums any feedback we also try and record all games we play(again lacking here lately, i should be picking up the slack from Daan i don't expect him to film every match)
But to sum all this up i hope you are still around to play with us and help mappers/future mappers in making this game better and more fun.
Also i remember hotdog i liked it and you built on all that you learnt to make temple that i love and is played on SCC a lot.
Just know I enjoyed playing your maps, and I hope you do decide to take a small break but come back eh?
just to let you know.
Officially, you have now a custom map played publicly.
Congratulations.
If you want to help out, that'd be awesome! It's still in the "get the layout right" stages though.
Any new development ?
When layout is ok ; call me.
Thanks for keeping interest though! It's actually really nice to know there's still people looking forward to this project.
Temple will remain one of the only maps I still wish to see set up as official.
My long-term goal of temple is to get it to a high enough quality for it to become an official map. But that's probably at least a year down the road.
I have redone the map almost from scratch. The layout is completely different, and the only thing that remains from before is some of the rooms... but they're not in the same positions they were before.
http://imgur.com/a/HWKdb
Summit's Law. Any map after a new update will look 20% more like Summit.
I'm confused.
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, I probably shouldn't have made the lanes in Summit sprout from Crevice and Reactor directly, as the junctions aren't at the RT room. Just imagine that I did that. :}