IMO most RTS games are specifically designed to limit what you can do through the interface and how much autohelp you get from the AI. Too much help / too easy to control, and the game would probably become uninteresting to play or watch. Then again, that has been the thought process so far, the "traditionalist" thought process, and this may well change in the future (and I'm very much looking forward to it). So far, unfortunately it hasn't.
The thing is, with NS2 the "RTS game" is so boring, formulaic, and predictable right now that pretty much doing anything with it, including removing the commander position altogether and replacing it with a bunch of scripts or some simple progressive state-machine ai, would probably go somewhat unnoticed. Comp teams might go for early arcs once in a while... that's probably about the most dramatic thing you can do. On a pub, I wouldn't think once about going early arcs, unless the team is exceptionally well-stacked. The kind of stack where aliens have two or three rooms under contested control by 1:30 .
I've never really noticed what is flashing and what isn't, but then again I'm not really looking at the stupid alert messages or circles that pop up. That's not where the game is. The game is on the minimap. For all I care, they should completely remove any aural or visual traditional "notifications" as they are superfluous and ultimately completely unnecessary, and what is worse - may often be the source of severely distracting "noise" pulling nåbs' eyes and hands from where their limited ability would have the largest impact.
As I've suggested elsewhere, if we could only play completely on the maximized minimap with the icons, that would suit me so much better, but oh well...
Put an observatory that overlaps your power node zone. Should have plenty of warning within the radius of all the red dots.. Beacon if you have to.
Nanoshield the power if you have to.. base rushes only occur if you have a gorge tunnel near your base or your marine map positioning has left a huge hole (route) to your base.
You can bind the map key to something else as well in order to have a clearer view of the battlefield.. for me Mouse 5. So you can bring up the "C" map as a Commander.. and if you don't see the stuff in your base well.. derp.
Put an observatory that overlaps your power node zone. Should have plenty of warning within the radius of all the red dots.. Beacon if you have to.
Nanoshield the power if you have to.. base rushes only occur if you have a gorge tunnel near your base or your marine map positioning has left a huge hole (route) to your base.
You can bind the map key to something else as well in order to have a clearer view of the battlefield.. for me Mouse 5. So you can bring up the "C" map as a Commander.. and if you don't see the stuff in your base well.. derp.
I like to place my obs so they give advanced warning, all the better if they overlap my node too, and a second to cover alternate routes into the main if I can afford it. but it would help at secondary bases if powernodes could a command map indicator of damage. departures comes to mind for making you choose ow you want to use your obs.
It's sad that people are requesting such ridiculous hand-holding in such a simple RTS game. I mean, at that point it might as well beacon for you when the obs, IP, or powernode go down to 40% and then drop RTs for you and tell marines where to go while microing macs and drifters for you while you watch.
I guess that's when you know you're not cut out to play RTSs online - when you get in the com chair in a game where you don't really have to do anything but click a predetermined sequence of buttons and babysit for the occasional medpack/ammo/mist/drifter (mind you, you don't even have to actually micro any group of fighting units, let alone several groups or lines as you would in a semi-competent actual RTS match online) - and you still fail to observe the map.
Don't have vision on a power node in an important (to you) location? It's your mistake, not the game's.
Sadly, with the continued ineptitude that I've seen in commander chairs, I guess you might as well cater to the n00bs if they're the only ones which will end up "commanding" most of the games. As I've mentioned before, this game has failed to attract most RTS-minded players for many reasons, the biggest of which is IMO the lack of choice and impact a commander can have towards winning.
What a rotten post. Comparing the visibility of a graphical feature to automated functions, not far fetched nor extreme just plain stupid. If something is hard to see, it needs to have a logical reason to. Power going down is important, and marines get a huge alert for it, but the comms do not.
Then you go on for two chapters about how everyone sucks nowdays. Make your own topic.
Next time you post atleast come up with a competitive RTS example of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see.
I agree, but it's also your job as comm to constantly think about what COULD be happening and take preventive measures. Tell people specifically where to go scouting, and if no one does it or they're too busy, scan areas that haven't had any action for a while. Base rushes are predictable if you don't lose focus and work on your game sense. If you have to rely on alerts, it's already too late a lot of the time. I've lost to base rushes a few times, but I've learnt my lesson and will now spot the majority of them before they even happen.
On a similar note, the mass amount of silly radio sounds and alerts that make it impossible to hear anything should be optionally deactivatable. Upgrade notifications, automatic waypoints, things being under attack etc.
Also, why is the powering up sound of power nodes coming from the player radio as opposed to from the power node itself? The times I've raged because an insanely loud 10 second sound effect was playing in my ears while fighting a skulk...
If something is hard to see, it needs to have a logical reason to. Power going down is important, and marines get a huge alert for it, but the comms do not.
Except, it doesn't. Logic has nothing to do with this game or its features. In fact, a lot of things in this and other games run completely counter to sound logic, "realism", or whatever the hell you want to call it. The decisions on how the game works is entirely up to the game designer. They want the power nodes to not emit alerts, and that's the end of it.
I think the current challenge of keeping vision over a necessary power node with an obs or actual live players is just fine. If you do have an obs covering a power node and you STILL miss it, that's your own inexcusable mistake for being a failure at commanding, and you should either:
- Learn from it and improve, or
- Never command again
Then you go on for two chapters about how everyone sucks nowdays. Make your own topic.
Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was going on about how mostly everyone IN THIS GAME sucks nowadays. That's because there's no "RTS" game, since there's little to no decision making, and you're completely powerless as a commander to influence the game in a good way. Your only function is to press buttons on cue and voice over alerts that people didn't see while they were fighting to prevent your team from losing.
Next time you post atleast come up with a competitive RTS example of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see.
This is about as high-level as it gets in SC2 anyway. And the only voice alert in that game that pops up is when your ACU gets attacked. That's it. Everything is under fog of war, and you are never alerted to anything with visual or aural cues. Except, of course, actually LOOKING AT THE MAP (who could've thought about that?) :-) .
Now that I've posted this, maybe next time you can at least come up with an example in NS2 of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see. Because the power node isn't - especially in your starting room. You can see it pretty easily with a structure which has a pretty large range, and recently even received a cost reduction - or, you know, the entire team that actually spawns next to it?
Cba watching your Nobodyplaysthis Commander 2 example, the only SC2 is StarCraft 2, and in SC2 there is nothing you don't know about your own base and you can easily see what's under attack.
Logic does not equal realism, what the hell.
"They want the power nodes to not emit alerts, and that's the end of it."
Just because it is that way doesn't mean they want it to be. Why do I even bother. Stopping replies to you here.
If something is hard to see, it needs to have a logical reason to. Power going down is important, and marines get a huge alert for it, but the comms do not.
Except, it doesn't. Logic has nothing to do with this game or its features. In fact, a lot of things in this and other games run completely counter to sound logic, "realism", or whatever the hell you want to call it. The decisions on how the game works is entirely up to the game designer. They want the power nodes to not emit alerts, and that's the end of it.
I think the current challenge of keeping vision over a necessary power node with an obs or actual live players is just fine. If you do have an obs covering a power node and you STILL miss it, that's your own inexcusable mistake for being a failure at commanding, and you should either:
- Learn from it and improve, or
- Never command again
Then you go on for two chapters about how everyone sucks nowdays. Make your own topic.
Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was going on about how mostly everyone IN THIS GAME sucks nowadays. That's because there's no "RTS" game, since there's little to no decision making, and you're completely powerless as a commander to influence the game in a good way. Your only function is to press buttons on cue and voice over alerts that people didn't see while they were fighting to prevent your team from losing.
Next time you post atleast come up with a competitive RTS example of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see.
This is about as high-level as it gets in SC2 anyway. And the only voice alert in that game that pops up is when your ACU gets attacked. That's it. Everything is under fog of war, and you are never alerted to anything with visual or aural cues. Except, of course, actually LOOKING AT THE MAP (who could've thought about that?) :-) .
Now that I've posted this, maybe next time you can at least come up with an example in NS2 of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see. Because the power node isn't - especially in your starting room. You can see it pretty easily with a structure which has a pretty large range, and recently even received a cost reduction - or, you know, the entire team that actually spawns next to it?
every building has vision in sc2 of uncloaked units. the only comparable thing in sc2 would be dts, but that still has visual indicators of units taking damage. nukes have a visual indicator and a honking audio cue about nukes. and anything taking damage throws out units or base being attacked.
there was a time, that a bunch of us were confused about silence, and whether ornot being silenced suppressed the power node message. but then we just found out it was bad programming instead. consistency. either give thesame signals for all buildings, or none of them, all the time or none of it.
Really it's just a learn to play issue unfortunately. There's plenty of ways to keep tabs on your base.
Ctrl + # while having a structure selected for example creates an icon above your map and glows red when under attack.
There ARE voice notifications that your base is under attack but sometimes they don't have priority. You have access to the C map (giant map on your screen that gives enormous amount of info), the minimap and you have an Observatory ability to Scan and Beacon.. Turrets.. PGs.. just pay attention to your base.
A good commander understands positioning, map control and when he is exposed for base..
If you're getting base rushed as a commander.. you probably aren't telling people to go to the right places or don't have the right tech in play. (mines, pgs, observatory, all very good at fighting against rushes)
does anybody actually think that having visual indicators on the minimal and command map of powernodes being hit is a bad thing? the "base is under attack cue is pretty reliable, but if it's your powernode you can't just pull up yourcommand map to see which one. is it really too much handholding or is it just consistency?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
@amoral
Again.. just the powernode?
What about your only IP? What about your only Obs?
You say consistency, well.. its happening already... they all send an alert - both visually and audibly, and are even prioritized.
If some obnoxious hand holding occurred for a structure.. aliens would just attack the other structures that didn't, to maximize the amount of damage they could make before being found out / stopped.
That being said, I do suggest there being a distinct visible difference between structure alerts and player alerts, and to allow structure alerts to fall or descend as alerts continue, yet unlike other alerts remain at the bottom of the scrolled list as a reminder...
So that in those chaotic moments with dozens of alerts and requests for medpacks, you are able to see which structure(s) were being attacked afterwards, instead of having to be massively attentive with the spacebar.
I feel almost seasick after watching that Supreme Commander 2 replay.
Yeah, the guy is a little zoom-happy and the commentary is a bit nåb in places. Although the players involved are both top-notch, as is the specific game.
P.S. I just thought of a simple idea which might be worth considering. What if... we make "energize" researchable from a chair or available some other way that's not connected with a powered robo lab (which, let's face it, is often not built at all until extremely late in the game). Also, having energize linked to a POWERED robo factory is... annoying. The ability is interesting, but very underused at the moment.
If you think it would be OP, consider that aliens actually got free phase gates and the game didn't completely die (which is quite a surprise to me).
So there you go, problem solved without stupid nôöb hand-holding and actually making you press more buttons on cue as marine commander (a.k.a. "let me see your micrò")! Isn't that awesome?
Relevant (scroll to 9m 19s because embed timer doesn't work):
P.P.S. I also won't be satisfied until Charlie considers moving marine jetpack research to sentry batteries.
@amoral
Again.. just the powernode?
What about your only IP? What about your only Obs?
You say consistency, well.. its happening already... they all send an alert - both visually and audibly, and are even prioritized.
If some obnoxious hand holding occurred for a structure.. aliens would just attack the other structures that didn't, to maximize the amount of damage they could make before being found out / stopped.
That being said, I do suggest there being a distinct visible difference between structure alerts and player alerts, and to allow structure alerts to fall or descend as alerts continue, yet unlike other alerts remain at the bottom of the scrolled list as a reminder...
So that in those chaotic moments with dozens of alerts and requests for medpacks, you are able to see which structure(s) were being attacked afterwards, instead of having to be massively attentive with the spacebar.
I think you misunderstood my position. I don't comm all that frequently, but I do remember base hits, and hitting space bar, and taking half a second to realize that nothing.g flashing meant power node. I just want power nodes to flash red on the command map, like literally every other structure in the game does, when taking damage.
right now I could look at my command map non-stop, and miss gorges biling power node because 1, the audio cue decided not to trigger, 2 power does not have a command map indicator, and 3 I didn't think to throw an obs in the middle of nowhere in departures... even hydras flash when taking or giving damage... wtf.
Ehh.. it DOES flash? And it does make visual as well as audio cues.
In fact there are multiple cues.
1) Red circle on minimap for all to see
2) Commander notification of structure under attack
3) Voice over alert that structure is under attack
4) Sound of powernode alert @ 40%
5) The lights do "pulse" when it is under attack
I suppose you could increase the frequency of the red circle .. but there definitely is consistency at least
Ehh.. it DOES flash? And it does make visual as well as audio cues.
In fact there are multiple cues.
1) Red circle on minimap for all to see
2) Commander notification of structure under attack
3) Voice over alert that structure is under attack
4) Sound of powernode alert @ 40%
5) The lights do "pulse" when it is under attack
I suppose you could increase the frequency of the red circle .. but there definitely is consistency at least
I just started noticing the red circle recently, which is saying a lot. make it more eyecatching and frequent and I'd be fine with that. the 40 percent thing is a red herring, by that point it's already too late to beacon. and I definitely meant something like when a blue or orange icon starts flashing an angry red.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
But ... see.. i'd rather have that for the obs than the power... the obs doesn't sound off an annoying incredibly loud alarm when it reaches 40% for me to react to so that i may beacon and it costs money to replace.
Then the next person says they care more about IPs than powernodes etc..
What the hell are you talking about horsie? ) That was even more pathetic than I had remembered! There was THIRTEEN SECONDS with ZERO visual cue. \:D/ What a joke. And all the voice alerts are most likely useless or queued behind a million others.
I can't believe some people said this has anything to do with skill! )
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited January 2014
Watch it again or try it yourself.
There are multiple cues, both audio and visual.
Their frequency of repetition is up for discussion though, like I said.. But i think that's a poor solution compared to what I previously suggested.
And like lock said, it can be made easier to notice by multiple tricks that one can learn.. So if you feel there's no skill involved with being attentive to the first cues you missed, there's definitely some acquired skill involved using said tricks.
So are you advocating constant spamming of notifications every second instead of 8? I think that's unnecessary and obnoxious, personally.
With the nature of the game and people constantly attacking different areas of the map i feel as if an alert system would just result in a lot of unnecessary sound spam that would hinder you from hearing whats more important (foot steps, player call outs). Flashing red power nodes on the map would do wonders.
So are you advocating constant spamming of notifications every second instead of 8? I think that's unnecessary and obnoxious, personally.
So, would I like to know if my power is under attack instantly or after 8 seconds? Wow, let me think. .................................
You said to watch the video again. I watched from 0:26 to 0:37 and I see absolutely nothing in the commander interface that alerts you of the power going down. Please for the love of muffins, don't say that by "multiple cues" you mean the power you see beeping ground level from commander view.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
What? Try watching it in HD or something, or better yet just test it yourself with a friend.
When your power node is attacked you are *instantly* alerted with 1) A red flashing circle on your mini map as well as full map 2) A pop up notification saying structure is under attack (which actually shows an icon of a power node!!) 3) An audio cue saying "structure under attack" 4) And if you happen to be looking near that room, you'll see the lights flicker as well
@g_lock
I think that's the current problem.. People are easily overwhelmed and are missing the cues. But anyone can mitigate this deficit by following Locklear 's easy steps.. I mean its a singular two key press and you now have yet another visual indicator if you so please.
IMO, if the power is under attack in ANY room, it should either make its control area on the minimap, or every structure in the room light up.
To me, this makes the most sense as the power going down affects EVERY structure in the room, so in a sense, the entire room is under attack.
Also, it solves the issue of notifications as it would appear as a huge cluster/area of red on the minimap, regardless of sound notifications.
People seem to be seeing the power node as its own single structure, when in reality it is a small part of everything that has been built in the room, kind of like how all cysts in a chain show disconnected on the minimap when the first one is destroyed.
Edit: If people want more audio cues, then I guess a "Power node is under attack" in stead of the generic "Structure is under attack" message would be called for? This would still get irritating and wouldn't help much as every room has a power node....
What? Try watching it in HD or something, or better yet just test it yourself with a friend.
When your power node is attacked you are *instantly* alerted with 1) A red flashing circle on your mini map as well as full map 2) A pop up notification saying structure is under attack (which actually shows an icon of a power node!!) 3) An audio cue saying "structure under attack" 4) And if you happen to be looking near that room, you'll see the lights flicker as well
I was talking about comm view. Sure there's the initial cue no matter where you are, but it's still absolutely ridiculous how there are no refreshed alerts for over 10 seconds. (Outside looking directly at the damn power.)
Structure under attack event display and voice alert are not much good. Medpackammo requests and voice comm and different locations under attack simultaneously make dat stuff effectively useless. Not ENTIRELY, mind you, as I've said I've no problem seeing it happening - but cmon.
Well whatever. Everyone sure likes little quirks like these when commanding, eh? That's why commanding is so popular! :> (Ouch low blow. I apologize.)
What the hell are you talking about horsie? ) That was even more pathetic than I had remembered! There was THIRTEEN SECONDS with ZERO visual cue. \:D/ What a joke. And all the voice alerts are most likely useless or queued behind a million others.
I can't believe some people said this has anything to do with skill! )
Real men play without "visual cues," except ones provided by reliable radar. The "notification system" in this game is incomplete / abusable, and most importantly, UNRELIABLE.
So let me outline it for you.
The only reliability for map vision you have in this game is:
Aliens:
- drifter vision (I believe it's 360 degrees x/y, not sure)
- player aliens (I believe it's a cone towards where they're looking, not sure)
Marines:
- observatory (static radar, 360 degrees x/y, goes through walls)
- scans (dynamic radar, 360 degrees x/y, goes through walls)
- player marines (I believe it's a cone towards where they're looking, not sure)
Vision also seems to last 2-3 seconds after something goes out of vision, but I wouldn't rely on that either.
ANYTHING else is not and should not be meant to be taken seriously, and IMO, that's the way it should be.
The "notification system" on marines doesn't need improvement. It needs removal. Before it's removed though, marines need primary/secondary ammo level bars, otherwise unfortunately there's no possibility of info flow towards the commander... speaking of which, I think that's the biggest glaring annoyance on marines that I wish was fixed. You can have ineffective/completely unreliable units and not know it unless they decide to tell you (they may choose not to tell you). IMO, that's just bad design in RTS games. You should always be able to tell the status of your unit somehow.
I guess it might be possible to mentally keep count of every player's ammo level, although that is probably pointlessly tiring for very little benefit.
Watch it again or try it yourself.
There are multiple cues, both audio and visual.
Their frequency of repetition is up for discussion though, like I said.. But i think that's a poor solution compared to what I previously suggested.
And like lock said, it can be made easier to notice by multiple tricks that one can learn.. So if you feel there's no skill involved with being attentive to the first cues you missed, there's definitely some acquired skill involved using said tricks.
So are you advocating constant spamming of notifications every second instead of 8? I think that's unnecessary and obnoxious, personally.
we shouldn't have to develop work arounds to what appears to be a design oversight. unless they meant to make powernodes the only structures in the game besides clogs that don't get a map icon... in which case, yay? it worked? they trolled us real good.
So are you advocating constant spamming of notifications every second instead of 8? I think that's unnecessary and obnoxious, personally.
So, would I like to know if my power is under attack instantly or after 8 seconds? Wow, let me think. .................................
You said to watch the video again. I watched from 0:26 to 0:37 and I see absolutely nothing in the commander interface that alerts you of the power going down. Please for the love of muffins, don't say that by "multiple cues" you mean the power you see beeping ground level from commander view.
he means that faint damage ring, you also see it when cysts die... except cysts also get a map.icon and red circles of disconnected chains. you get the red circlearound everything that takes damage iI.think. but again, I didn't even notice it until 1000 hrs in.
Comments
The thing is, with NS2 the "RTS game" is so boring, formulaic, and predictable right now that pretty much doing anything with it, including removing the commander position altogether and replacing it with a bunch of scripts or some simple progressive state-machine ai, would probably go somewhat unnoticed. Comp teams might go for early arcs once in a while... that's probably about the most dramatic thing you can do. On a pub, I wouldn't think once about going early arcs, unless the team is exceptionally well-stacked. The kind of stack where aliens have two or three rooms under contested control by 1:30 .
I've never really noticed what is flashing and what isn't, but then again I'm not really looking at the stupid alert messages or circles that pop up. That's not where the game is. The game is on the minimap. For all I care, they should completely remove any aural or visual traditional "notifications" as they are superfluous and ultimately completely unnecessary, and what is worse - may often be the source of severely distracting "noise" pulling nåbs' eyes and hands from where their limited ability would have the largest impact.
As I've suggested elsewhere, if we could only play completely on the maximized minimap with the icons, that would suit me so much better, but oh well...
Ignores high level competitive commander.
-_-
Nanoshield the power if you have to.. base rushes only occur if you have a gorge tunnel near your base or your marine map positioning has left a huge hole (route) to your base.
You can bind the map key to something else as well in order to have a clearer view of the battlefield.. for me Mouse 5. So you can bring up the "C" map as a Commander.. and if you don't see the stuff in your base well.. derp.
I like to place my obs so they give advanced warning, all the better if they overlap my node too, and a second to cover alternate routes into the main if I can afford it. but it would help at secondary bases if powernodes could a command map indicator of damage. departures comes to mind for making you choose ow you want to use your obs.
What a rotten post. Comparing the visibility of a graphical feature to automated functions, not far fetched nor extreme just plain stupid. If something is hard to see, it needs to have a logical reason to. Power going down is important, and marines get a huge alert for it, but the comms do not.
Then you go on for two chapters about how everyone sucks nowdays. Make your own topic.
Next time you post atleast come up with a competitive RTS example of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see.
On a similar note, the mass amount of silly radio sounds and alerts that make it impossible to hear anything should be optionally deactivatable. Upgrade notifications, automatic waypoints, things being under attack etc.
Also, why is the powering up sound of power nodes coming from the player radio as opposed to from the power node itself? The times I've raged because an insanely loud 10 second sound effect was playing in my ears while fighting a skulk...
Except, it doesn't. Logic has nothing to do with this game or its features. In fact, a lot of things in this and other games run completely counter to sound logic, "realism", or whatever the hell you want to call it. The decisions on how the game works is entirely up to the game designer. They want the power nodes to not emit alerts, and that's the end of it.
I think the current challenge of keeping vision over a necessary power node with an obs or actual live players is just fine. If you do have an obs covering a power node and you STILL miss it, that's your own inexcusable mistake for being a failure at commanding, and you should either:
- Learn from it and improve, or
- Never command again
Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was going on about how mostly everyone IN THIS GAME sucks nowadays. That's because there's no "RTS" game, since there's little to no decision making, and you're completely powerless as a commander to influence the game in a good way. Your only function is to press buttons on cue and voice over alerts that people didn't see while they were fighting to prevent your team from losing.
Oh, and BTW I've made thread(s) about this before. Here's one: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133225/yatpp-yet-another-thread-on-progression-paths/p1
This is about as high-level as it gets in SC2 anyway. And the only voice alert in that game that pops up is when your ACU gets attacked. That's it. Everything is under fog of war, and you are never alerted to anything with visual or aural cues. Except, of course, actually LOOKING AT THE MAP (who could've thought about that?) :-) .
Now that I've posted this, maybe next time you can at least come up with an example in NS2 of something that is hard to see, and has no proper reason to be hard to see. Because the power node isn't - especially in your starting room. You can see it pretty easily with a structure which has a pretty large range, and recently even received a cost reduction - or, you know, the entire team that actually spawns next to it?
Logic does not equal realism, what the hell.
"They want the power nodes to not emit alerts, and that's the end of it."
Just because it is that way doesn't mean they want it to be. Why do I even bother. Stopping replies to you here.
every building has vision in sc2 of uncloaked units. the only comparable thing in sc2 would be dts, but that still has visual indicators of units taking damage. nukes have a visual indicator and a honking audio cue about nukes. and anything taking damage throws out units or base being attacked.
there was a time, that a bunch of us were confused about silence, and whether ornot being silenced suppressed the power node message. but then we just found out it was bad programming instead. consistency. either give thesame signals for all buildings, or none of them, all the time or none of it.
Really it's just a learn to play issue unfortunately. There's plenty of ways to keep tabs on your base.
Ctrl + # while having a structure selected for example creates an icon above your map and glows red when under attack.
There ARE voice notifications that your base is under attack but sometimes they don't have priority. You have access to the C map (giant map on your screen that gives enormous amount of info), the minimap and you have an Observatory ability to Scan and Beacon.. Turrets.. PGs.. just pay attention to your base.
A good commander understands positioning, map control and when he is exposed for base..
If you're getting base rushed as a commander.. you probably aren't telling people to go to the right places or don't have the right tech in play. (mines, pgs, observatory, all very good at fighting against rushes)
No chance of missing warning texts or misheard warning voices. Flicker lights = "uh oh"
Again.. just the powernode?
What about your only IP? What about your only Obs?
You say consistency, well.. its happening already... they all send an alert - both visually and audibly, and are even prioritized.
If some obnoxious hand holding occurred for a structure.. aliens would just attack the other structures that didn't, to maximize the amount of damage they could make before being found out / stopped.
That being said, I do suggest there being a distinct visible difference between structure alerts and player alerts, and to allow structure alerts to fall or descend as alerts continue, yet unlike other alerts remain at the bottom of the scrolled list as a reminder...
So that in those chaotic moments with dozens of alerts and requests for medpacks, you are able to see which structure(s) were being attacked afterwards, instead of having to be massively attentive with the spacebar.
Flickering lights? Uh, okay. As I mentioned above, completely unnecessary, but I guess it would be "cool."
And no, I don't think the command chair should scream when it's being attacked. However, the commander should be.
Yeah, the guy is a little zoom-happy and the commentary is a bit nåb in places. Although the players involved are both top-notch, as is the specific game.
P.S. I just thought of a simple idea which might be worth considering. What if... we make "energize" researchable from a chair or available some other way that's not connected with a powered robo lab (which, let's face it, is often not built at all until extremely late in the game). Also, having energize linked to a POWERED robo factory is... annoying. The ability is interesting, but very underused at the moment.
If you think it would be OP, consider that aliens actually got free phase gates and the game didn't completely die (which is quite a surprise to me).
So there you go, problem solved without stupid nôöb hand-holding and actually making you press more buttons on cue as marine commander (a.k.a. "let me see your micrò")! Isn't that awesome?
Relevant (scroll to 9m 19s because embed timer doesn't work):
P.P.S. I also won't be satisfied until Charlie considers moving marine jetpack research to sentry batteries.
I think you misunderstood my position. I don't comm all that frequently, but I do remember base hits, and hitting space bar, and taking half a second to realize that nothing.g flashing meant power node. I just want power nodes to flash red on the command map, like literally every other structure in the game does, when taking damage.
right now I could look at my command map non-stop, and miss gorges biling power node because 1, the audio cue decided not to trigger, 2 power does not have a command map indicator, and 3 I didn't think to throw an obs in the middle of nowhere in departures... even hydras flash when taking or giving damage... wtf.
Ehh.. it DOES flash? And it does make visual as well as audio cues.
In fact there are multiple cues.
1) Red circle on minimap for all to see
2) Commander notification of structure under attack
3) Voice over alert that structure is under attack
4) Sound of powernode alert @ 40%
5) The lights do "pulse" when it is under attack
I suppose you could increase the frequency of the red circle .. but there definitely is consistency at least
I just started noticing the red circle recently, which is saying a lot. make it more eyecatching and frequent and I'd be fine with that. the 40 percent thing is a red herring, by that point it's already too late to beacon. and I definitely meant something like when a blue or orange icon starts flashing an angry red.
Then the next person says they care more about IPs than powernodes etc..
I can't believe some people said this has anything to do with skill!
There are multiple cues, both audio and visual.
Their frequency of repetition is up for discussion though, like I said.. But i think that's a poor solution compared to what I previously suggested.
And like lock said, it can be made easier to notice by multiple tricks that one can learn.. So if you feel there's no skill involved with being attentive to the first cues you missed, there's definitely some acquired skill involved using said tricks.
So are you advocating constant spamming of notifications every second instead of 8? I think that's unnecessary and obnoxious, personally.
So, would I like to know if my power is under attack instantly or after 8 seconds? Wow, let me think. .................................
You said to watch the video again. I watched from 0:26 to 0:37 and I see absolutely nothing in the commander interface that alerts you of the power going down. Please for the love of muffins, don't say that by "multiple cues" you mean the power you see beeping ground level from commander view.
When your power node is attacked you are *instantly* alerted with 1) A red flashing circle on your mini map as well as full map 2) A pop up notification saying structure is under attack (which actually shows an icon of a power node!!) 3) An audio cue saying "structure under attack" 4) And if you happen to be looking near that room, you'll see the lights flicker as well
@g_lock
I think that's the current problem.. People are easily overwhelmed and are missing the cues. But anyone can mitigate this deficit by following Locklear 's easy steps.. I mean its a singular two key press and you now have yet another visual indicator if you so please.
To me, this makes the most sense as the power going down affects EVERY structure in the room, so in a sense, the entire room is under attack.
Also, it solves the issue of notifications as it would appear as a huge cluster/area of red on the minimap, regardless of sound notifications.
People seem to be seeing the power node as its own single structure, when in reality it is a small part of everything that has been built in the room, kind of like how all cysts in a chain show disconnected on the minimap when the first one is destroyed.
Edit: If people want more audio cues, then I guess a "Power node is under attack" in stead of the generic "Structure is under attack" message would be called for? This would still get irritating and wouldn't help much as every room has a power node....
I was talking about comm view. Sure there's the initial cue no matter where you are, but it's still absolutely ridiculous how there are no refreshed alerts for over 10 seconds. (Outside looking directly at the damn power.)
Structure under attack event display and voice alert are not much good. Medpackammo requests and voice comm and different locations under attack simultaneously make dat stuff effectively useless. Not ENTIRELY, mind you, as I've said I've no problem seeing it happening - but cmon.
Well whatever. Everyone sure likes little quirks like these when commanding, eh? That's why commanding is so popular! :> (Ouch low blow. I apologize.)
Real men play without "visual cues," except ones provided by reliable radar. The "notification system" in this game is incomplete / abusable, and most importantly, UNRELIABLE.
So let me outline it for you.
The only reliability for map vision you have in this game is:
Aliens:
- drifter vision (I believe it's 360 degrees x/y, not sure)
- player aliens (I believe it's a cone towards where they're looking, not sure)
Marines:
- observatory (static radar, 360 degrees x/y, goes through walls)
- scans (dynamic radar, 360 degrees x/y, goes through walls)
- player marines (I believe it's a cone towards where they're looking, not sure)
Vision also seems to last 2-3 seconds after something goes out of vision, but I wouldn't rely on that either.
ANYTHING else is not and should not be meant to be taken seriously, and IMO, that's the way it should be.
So, if you miss something critical on the map because you weren't paying attention when you had vision using the tools above, refer to this post: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2178006/#Comment_2178006
The "notification system" on marines doesn't need improvement. It needs removal. Before it's removed though, marines need primary/secondary ammo level bars, otherwise unfortunately there's no possibility of info flow towards the commander... speaking of which, I think that's the biggest glaring annoyance on marines that I wish was fixed. You can have ineffective/completely unreliable units and not know it unless they decide to tell you (they may choose not to tell you). IMO, that's just bad design in RTS games. You should always be able to tell the status of your unit somehow.
I guess it might be possible to mentally keep count of every player's ammo level, although that is probably pointlessly tiring for very little benefit.
we shouldn't have to develop work arounds to what appears to be a design oversight. unless they meant to make powernodes the only structures in the game besides clogs that don't get a map icon... in which case, yay? it worked? they trolled us real good.
he means that faint damage ring, you also see it when cysts die... except cysts also get a map.icon and red circles of disconnected chains. you get the red circlearound everything that takes damage iI.think. but again, I didn't even notice it until 1000 hrs in.