I agree this was extremely badly handled from our (Quactus) side.
HOWEVER
We did not confirm a thing regarding the 14CET Sunday match-time. There are several reasons for this.
1) The chatlogs don't show zups confirming anything. He himself has stated that he had no intention at all to confirm, backed up by the fact that just minutes earlier he had told Slayar that he has to ask the team. One single line from zups' chatlog was taken out of context and Zefram decided that this must mean confirmation.
2) No one from our team had directly contacted any of the NS2WC refs, admins or other staff. You cannot determine a 'confirmation' from the other team's alleged chat logs (copypasting into steam chat) and then not even ask our team whether this information is correct or not. The fact that the false, 'confirmed' time had appeared in the googledoc is ridiculous as well, as that would require every team to have a dedicated person refreshing the doc every 5 minutes to see if a false confirmation appears and then rush to the admins to correct it. The NS2WC website is also in a constant state of flux and chaos, and finding crucial information from there tends to be pretty painstaking.
3) Even if zups had confirmed (which he didn't), he's not the team captain. The rules don't say anything about this, but it would seem pretty obvious to me that the team captains have to be in direct contact with the tournament staff to make a confirmation.
We want to play this match-up as well, and I'm fairly certain that we don't actually have to worry about this debacle, as I'm sure we're able to arrange a time next weekend (maybe I should change the wording of this sentence from "certain" and "sure" to "NO COMMENTS" and "NO COMMENTS" respectively, so the tournament admins won't take my post as confirmation for a time discerned from the position of the planets on the night sky).
I'm considering making a dedicated thread for this incident with all details publicly displayed, no matter the verdict and no matter whether this match-up will be rescheduled or not, simply to highlight the shortcomings of the tournament organisers regarding professionalism.
This is why confirming a time should not be done between teams. Discuss the time between each other all you want, when you agree, both of you group chat with an admin and both say you agree to X time. The admin then records that, if one team doesn't show, forfeit, if both don't, 0 points for each and match is dropped.
Absolutely. This is why admins should not post confirmed times on the schedule if they haven't been in contact with both teams (or even better, team leaders).
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
tbh this new topic isnt related to the OP topic. :P
Am I the only one thinking, for a change, that this is something between teams & the admins and that the community only needs to know if it selfdestructs?
Im sure schedule errors happen often in tournaments?
Everyone here seems to be missing the point. The default time is completely unreasonable for an Australian team (4am on a Monday with people needing to be at work at 6am) and therefore they offered the last reasonable time possible for the game to be played on the allocated day. Multiple days notice was given that this was the latest time the game could be played with 6 players from Ascension being available for a 12 hour window before and up to the "confirmed" time.
The whole idea that a team can just deliberately avoid confirming a time, forcing a whole team plus casters (and some Quactas players who thought the game was happening lol) to sit around hoping they show up is ridiculous.
I agree that we could have been more forward with the time not being suitable for us.
Doesn't have anything, absolutely anything to do with the fact that the 'confirmed' time was jotted down with absolutely no confirmation from our side.
I agree that we could have been more forward with the time not being suitable for us.
Doesn't have anything, absolutely anything to do with the fact that the 'confirmed' time was jotted down with absolutely no confirmation from our side.
If I was in your position I would have been equally hesitant to confirm a time if I wasn't sure I could play, and I agree that the confirmed time was not properly confirmed, which is why I wrote it in quotations. This was however a reasonable 'default' time as compromise to the actual default time. Both teams perhaps could have been more forward with confirming a reasonable compromise for the default as opposed to actually confirming a time. Again, we're still missing the point teams are relying on the catch-up week to make up for laziness. The game was supposed to be played Sunday and Ascension clearly put more effort in attempting to make this date work.
Why am I even bothering to argue. We're all on the same side and want to see the game played, who cares. Let's all go back to blaming Zefram for everything
Edit: I remember why I started arguing, Nadily post was dumb. I like most of you.
Why am I even bothering to argue. We're all on the same side and want to see the game played, who cares. Let's all go back to blaming Zefram for everything
I'm happy things got resolved, but I hope you can see that it was entirely unreasonable that we were going to be punished due to an admin misunderstanding and making a huge shortcut in confirming the match time. If the chatlogs were to be published, I don't think anyone would fail to see that it was not zups' intention to confirm anything.
@Ascension and Quactus
Not sure if it was mentioned... and I am too lazy to read the entire thread... but what time was the game rescheduled to? I think this will be a really good match to watch.
@Ascension and Quactus
Not sure if it was mentioned... and I am too lazy to read the entire thread... but what time was the game rescheduled to? I think this will be a really good match to watch.
Still unconfirmed, but when it's scheduled I'll make sure to let people know about it. Will most likely be streamed on twitch.tv/ausns2
This is why confirming a time should not be done between teams. Discuss the time between each other all you want, when you agree, both of you group chat with an admin and both say you agree to X time. The admin then records that, if one team doesn't show, forfeit, if both don't, 0 points for each and match is dropped.
If this was more professional, it would be simply done though a webpage :P Admins don't even to have to bother with such things when it's automatic.
This is why confirming a time should not be done between teams. Discuss the time between each other all you want, when you agree, both of you group chat with an admin and both say you agree to X time. The admin then records that, if one team doesn't show, forfeit, if both don't, 0 points for each and match is dropped.
Personally I believe teams should talk to each other to figure out the time and once they figure it out, both tell whatever admin or report it via whatever method is available. I just don't want it to turn into someone grabbing a admin or whoever and babysit a chat while teams hash out a time.
Personally I believe teams should talk to each other to figure out the time and once they figure it out, both tell whatever admin or report it via whatever method is available. I just don't want it to turn into someone grabbing a admin or whoever and babysit a chat while teams hash out a time.
This is why confirming a time should not be done between teams. Discuss the time between each other all you want, when you agree, both of you group chat with an admin and both say you agree to X time. The admin then records that, if one team doesn't show, forfeit, if both don't, 0 points for each and match is dropped.
This is why confirming a time should not be done between teams. Discuss the time between each other all you want, when you agree, both of you group chat with an admin and both say you agree to X time. The admin then records that, if one team doesn't show, forfeit, if both don't, 0 points for each and match is dropped.
If this was more professional, it would be simply done though a webpage :P Admins don't even to have to bother with such things when it's automatic.
Comments
HOWEVER
We did not confirm a thing regarding the 14CET Sunday match-time. There are several reasons for this.
1) The chatlogs don't show zups confirming anything. He himself has stated that he had no intention at all to confirm, backed up by the fact that just minutes earlier he had told Slayar that he has to ask the team. One single line from zups' chatlog was taken out of context and Zefram decided that this must mean confirmation.
2) No one from our team had directly contacted any of the NS2WC refs, admins or other staff. You cannot determine a 'confirmation' from the other team's alleged chat logs (copypasting into steam chat) and then not even ask our team whether this information is correct or not. The fact that the false, 'confirmed' time had appeared in the googledoc is ridiculous as well, as that would require every team to have a dedicated person refreshing the doc every 5 minutes to see if a false confirmation appears and then rush to the admins to correct it. The NS2WC website is also in a constant state of flux and chaos, and finding crucial information from there tends to be pretty painstaking.
3) Even if zups had confirmed (which he didn't), he's not the team captain. The rules don't say anything about this, but it would seem pretty obvious to me that the team captains have to be in direct contact with the tournament staff to make a confirmation.
We want to play this match-up as well, and I'm fairly certain that we don't actually have to worry about this debacle, as I'm sure we're able to arrange a time next weekend (maybe I should change the wording of this sentence from "certain" and "sure" to "NO COMMENTS" and "NO COMMENTS" respectively, so the tournament admins won't take my post as confirmation for a time discerned from the position of the planets on the night sky).
I'm considering making a dedicated thread for this incident with all details publicly displayed, no matter the verdict and no matter whether this match-up will be rescheduled or not, simply to highlight the shortcomings of the tournament organisers regarding professionalism.
Absolutely. This is why admins should not post confirmed times on the schedule if they haven't been in contact with both teams (or even better, team leaders).
Am I the only one thinking, for a change, that this is something between teams & the admins and that the community only needs to know if it selfdestructs?
Im sure schedule errors happen often in tournaments?
The whole idea that a team can just deliberately avoid confirming a time, forcing a whole team plus casters (and some Quactas players who thought the game was happening lol) to sit around hoping they show up is ridiculous.
Doesn't have anything, absolutely anything to do with the fact that the 'confirmed' time was jotted down with absolutely no confirmation from our side.
If I was in your position I would have been equally hesitant to confirm a time if I wasn't sure I could play, and I agree that the confirmed time was not properly confirmed, which is why I wrote it in quotations. This was however a reasonable 'default' time as compromise to the actual default time. Both teams perhaps could have been more forward with confirming a reasonable compromise for the default as opposed to actually confirming a time. Again, we're still missing the point teams are relying on the catch-up week to make up for laziness. The game was supposed to be played Sunday and Ascension clearly put more effort in attempting to make this date work.
Edit: I remember why I started arguing, Nadily post was dumb. I like most of you.
That's the spirit
For you to stop writing seems the most logical thing to do
"I died to a skulk, eject commander"
"I'm shit at scheduling, eject admin-ander"
On a happy note the Ascension vs Quactus game has been unofficially scheduled, official confirmation in a day or two (time to double check with team).
Wat?
I very strongly disagree with that - but a moot point now. Let's just play the match :>
youtu.be/UrgpZ0fUixs?t=3m54s
Not sure if it was mentioned... and I am too lazy to read the entire thread... but what time was the game rescheduled to? I think this will be a really good match to watch.
Still unconfirmed, but when it's scheduled I'll make sure to let people know about it. Will most likely be streamed on twitch.tv/ausns2
If this was more professional, it would be simply done though a webpage :P Admins don't even to have to bother with such things when it's automatic.
Personally I believe teams should talk to each other to figure out the time and once they figure it out, both tell whatever admin or report it via whatever method is available. I just don't want it to turn into someone grabbing a admin or whoever and babysit a chat while teams hash out a time.
for reference, WC admins, get some.
http://ausns2.org/showthread.php?685-League-System-Feedback-amp-Updates&p=10964&viewfull=1#post10964