fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2013
Some quick thoughts/predictions regarding the qualifiers:
Group A
Also known as "Group Boring" (that would've made a lot more sense if this was Group B, sigh), with Legendary Snails all but guaranteed to take the top spot and Radical likely taking the second spot in the quarter finals. The only question is whether or not Snails will lose any rounds in group play. My guess is no.
Group B
Arguably the weakest group in the qualifiers, but that also makes things more interesting, as the difference between the top spot and second spot in this group is also likely the difference between playing in Cologne and watching the stream. Titus recently lost two keys players in Bitey and rline, but they're still a strong team and favorites to secure the top spot in Group B. Retired is their only likely challenger, and while it would be an upset, they may just have a shot at beating Titus.
As an amusing side note, I assume the team name "Retired" is a jib against the OP, where I wrote that Boom had retired. Obviously he hasn't, since he's playing for Retired. Blame Bitey, he's the one who gave me that particular piece of rotten information!
Group C
Battle of the north, as Saunamen, the least-practicing tier 1 team in NS2, takes on Quactus, the unholy matrimony of Quaxy and Exertus. Quactus has been practicing heavily, getting decent results in practice matches against other tier 1 teams, whilst the Saunamen have pursued their usual schedule of "meh play every once in a while but still do well". I assume Saunamen has the upper hand, but this group is entirely open.
Ascension is the dark horse team, and while it seems unlikely that they'll be able to beat Saunamen or Quactus, their performance against these two teams may end up deciding which Finnish team ends up first and which ends up second in the group.
Group D
Perhaps the most exciting group, both because Godar and Imagine are very closely matched, and because this is a grudge match between jaivol and his former teammates.
Godar have been struggling without their Spanish commander, but picking up Aioros as their new commander, and the the last minute release of Eissfeldt from VACtivity, has rekindled their hopes. Whereas they were losing almost every practice match they played a few weeks ago, they have recently been going toe to toe with Imagine. Their recent fall from grace (going from the top seeded team in NSL S3 group play to a fourth place finish in a matter of weeks) is unprecedented in competitive Natural Selection history, and they're still nowhere near their past form. With excellent players like valkjuri and Eissfeldt leading the way, though, they are a real contender for a top finish in this group, and a trip to Cologne.
Imagine, on the other hand, are the new kids on the block, defined by jaivol's excellent leadership. Sporting a roughly 50/50 mix of players previously in tier 1 and tier 2 teams, this team is the big surprise entry to this tournament. In practice matches they've been rolling from victory to victory, at times looking like they were ready to roll all the way to first place in Cologne. Lately, they've been struggling a bit more against opponents who seem to have somewhat adapted to their style of play, but they are still posting favorable results against the other tier 1 teams. Their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, as their fantastic cooperative play, guided by jaivol's positional micromanaging, can easily overwhelm opponents, but it also causes them to sometimes force engagements under unfavorable conditions. While they have a very talented group of players, there are also some questions to be raised about the top level experience of some of their players. This is very much a team where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, but one also has to keep in mind that a team is only as strong as its weakest link.
In the past, questions have been raised over Godar's inability to perform in important matches. Some say it's jaivol who has been folding under pressure, but surely the rest of the team must have had something to do with it as well? Group D is the perfect opportunity to put that argument to rest. Jaivol will either redeem himself as the magician commander he seems to be in practice matches, or Godar will prove that they don't need him to succeed. Personally, I can't say which team will come out on top. They both still have a fair chance at winning their quarter final regardless of who they face from Group C, however, so this inter-group competition may turn out to just be a battle for bragging rights.
Wild speculation on potential quarter finals
1. Legendary Snails > Retired: Despite sub-par performance in recent practice matches, I expect the Snails to dispatch their american opposition in a slimy way.
2. Titus Gaming > Radical: Titus Gaming is the likely victor here, although this is a matchup where an upset is possible.
3. Saunamen ? Godar: Too close to call. Godar will be eager to avenge past playoffs losses to Saunamen (European Open semi final, NSL S3 bronze final).
4. Imagine > Quactus: Imagine have been doing very well against Quactus in practice matches, and this is likely their preferred opponent in the quarter final.
To illustrate just how closely the teams are matched, and how unpredictable Group C vs. Group D is, let me recount the results of a few practice matches on monday and tuesday this week. On monday I merced for Imagine against Quactus. Jaivol was off doing jaivol things, so Imagine grabbed a random commander from a public server, and still beat Quactus 5-0. Later that same day, Imagine lost 1-3 to Godar, this time with jaivol commanding two rounds and Hopeanuoli (of Saunamen) merc commanding two rounds. The next day, Quactus beat Godar 6-2. Imagine > Quactus > Godar > Imagine. That's some Ouroboros worm steez aight.
It's not just these three teams, though. The field is wide open right now. A couple of weeks ago I played in a mix with players from various american teams, and beat Snails 3-1 on a european server (I got a sweeeeet solo quad frag with shotgun in that match). I've also merced for Imagine when they've beaten both Snails and Saunamen. As it is, the seedings probably don't accurately reflect the teams' performance right now, but then again, the teams who have done well in practice matches over the past few weeks may suddenly stumble when it comes to actual tournament matches. We'll just have to see what happens.
Some quick thoughts/predictions regarding the qualifiers:
Group A
Also known as "Group Boring" (that would've made a lot more sense if this was Group B, sigh), with Legendary Snails all but guaranteed to take the top spot and Radical likely taking the second spot in the quarter finals. The only question is whether or not Snails will lose any rounds in group play. My guess is no.
Group B
Arguably the weakest group in the qualifiers, but that also makes things more interesting, as the difference between the top spot and second spot in this group is also likely the difference between playing in Cologne and watching the stream. Titus recently lost two keys players in Bitey and rline, but they're still a strong team and favorites to secure the top spot in Group B. Retired is their only likely challenger, and while it would be an upset, they may just have a shot at beating Titus.
As an amusing side note, I assume the team name "Retired" is a jib against the OP, where I wrote that Boom had retired. Obviously he hasn't, since he's playing for Retired. Blame Bitey, he's the one who gave me that particular piece of rotten information!
Group C
Battle of the north, as Saunamen, the least-practicing tier 1 team in NS2, takes on Quaxy, the unholy matrimony of Quaxy and Exertus. Quactus has been practicing heavily, getting decent results in practice matches against other tier 1 teams, whilst the Saunamen have pursued their usual schedule of "meh play every once in a while but still do well". I assume Saunamen has the upper hand, but this group is entirely open.
Ascension is the dark horse team, and while it seems unlikely that they'll be able to beat Saunamen or Quactus, their performance against these two teams may end up deciding which Finnish team ends up first and which ends up second in the group.
Group D
Perhaps the most exciting group, both because Godar and Imagine are very closely matched, and because this is a grudge match between jaivol and his former teammates.
Godar have been struggling without their Spanish commander, but picking up Aioros as their new commander, and the the last minute release of Eissfeldt from VACtivity, has rekindled their hopes. Whereas they were losing almost every practice match they played a few weeks ago, they have recently been going toe to toe with Imagine. Their recent fall from grace (going from the top seeded team in NSL S3 group play to a fourth place finish in a matter of weeks) is unprecedented in competitive Natural Selection history, and they're still nowhere near their past form. With excellent players like valkjuri and Eissfeldt leading the way, though, they are a real contender for a top finish in this group, and a trip to Cologne.
Imagine, on the other hand, are the new kids on the block, defined by jaivol's excellent leadership. Sporting a roughly 50/50 mix of players previously in tier 1 and tier 2 teams, this team is the big surprise entry to this tournament. In practice matches they've been rolling from victory to victory, at times looking like they were ready to roll all the way to first place in Cologne. Lately, they've been struggling a bit more against opponents who seem to have somewhat adapted to their style of play, but they are still posting favorable results against the other tier 1 teams. Their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, as their fantastic cooperative play, guided by jaivol's positional micromanaging, can easily overwhelm opponents, but it also causes them to sometimes force engagements under unfavorable conditions. While they have a very talented group of players, there are also some questions to be raised about the top level experience of some of their players. This is very much a team where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, but one also has to keep in mind that a team is only as strong as its weakest link.
In the past, questions have been raised over Godar's inability to perform in important matches. Some say it's jaivol who has been folding under pressure, but surely the rest of the team must have had something to do with it as well? Group D is the perfect opportunity to put the argument to rest. Jaivol will either redeem himself as the magician commander he seems to be in practice matches, or Godar will prove that they don't need him to succeed. Personally, I can't say which team will come out on top. They both still have a fair chance at winning their quarter final regardless of who they face from Group C, however, so this inter-group competition may turn out to just be a battle for bragging rights.
Wild speculation on potential quarter finals
1. Legendary Snails > Retired: Despite sub-par performance in recent practice matches, I expect the Snails to dispatch their american opposition in a slimy way.
2. Titus Gaming > Radical: Titus Gaming is the likely victor here, although this is a matchup where an upset is possible.
3. Saunamen ? Godar: Too close to call. Godar will be eager to avenge past playoffs losses to Saunamen (European Open semi final, NSL S3 bronze final).
4. Imagine > Quactus: Imagine have been doing very well against Quactus in practice matches, and this is likely their preferred opponent in the quarter final.
To illustrate just how closely the teams are matched, and just how unpredictable Group C vs. Group D is, let me recount the results of a few practice matches on monday and tuesday this week. On monday, I merced for Imagine against Quactus. Jaivol was off doing jaivol things, so Imagine grabbed a random commander from a public server, and still beat Quactus 5-0. Later that same day, Imagine lost 1-3 to Godar, this time with jaivol commanding two rounds and Hopeanuoli (of Saunamen) merc commanding two rounds. The next day, Quactus beat Godar 6-2. Imagine > Quactus > Godar > Imagine. That's some Ouroboros worm steez aight.
It's not just those three teams, though. The field is wide open right now. A couple of weeks ago I played in a mix with players from various american teams, and beat Snails 3-1 on a european server (I got a sweeeeet solo quad frag with shotgun in that match). I've also merced for Imagine when they've beaten both Snails and Saunamen. As it is, the seedings probably don't accurately reflect the teams' performance right now, but then again, the teams who have done well in practice matches over the past few weeks may suddenly stumble when it comes to actual tournament matches. We'll just have to see what happens.
The belief is high in iMAGINE. We feel confident and won't crumble under "tournament pressure". All we have to do is jump on and play our game like every other day. We're winning more than not meaning teams are going to be more afraid of us and that will definitely be in our favour in these matches.
ATTN PEOPLE:
Please avoid dramatizing the Ascension vs Quactus situation and allow the admins to consider the situation without politics getting involved.
ATTN PEOPLE:
Please avoid dramatizing the Ascension vs Quactus situation and allow the admins to consider the situation without politics getting involved.
Even though we'll eventually find out, you cannot possibly make a post like that and not elaborate.
What Happened:
Essentially, Quactus didn't show up at the time of the match and claims they never officially confirmed the time (which was an arguably an "iffy" confirmation). I had discussed the time with Zups early Thursday and had believed he had unofficially confirmed but wasn't sure about a player so he didn't "officially confirm" (the disputed evidence). Further this, the one player on their team online did show up and believed they were playing saying Quactus had agreed as a team on Thursday they were playing the time/date then changed this when he was away on Friday/Saturday (but did not tell anyone outside Quactus). This resulted in Ascension, a caster, and an estimated 200 specs(?) waiting on server/stream for 30 minutes.
Copy-pasted from AusNS2 Forums:
I've discussed the situation with the admins and Quactus understands the situation. The results are:
-We will attempt to reschedule next Sunday, prioritizing the other four matches we have to play verse European teams.
-If we cannot find a time to play each other, Quactus will be judged as forfeiting.
The reason Quactus has not already been judged as forfeiting is Ascensions keenness to play them and the "greyness" of whether Zups (Quactus captain?) confirmed the time or not. The evidence suggested he may have confirmed but communicated the confirmation in a way which avoided official confirmation.
As our Australian team already has four European teams to play on Sunday during the small time window our time-zones allow us to compete, Quactus will be forced to wake up a bit earlier to re-attempt to play this match in a time more suitable for us. I'll post when we have a confirmed time for the rescheduled match, or if they simply forfeit.
nadyliJoin Date: 2007-11-01Member: 62791Members, Squad Five Blue
Pretty onesided "What happened".
Since it's pretty late (soon 4am) and I have to get a few hours sleep before work I cba to write a long bs post, but here's our response to your "what happened":
a) zups is not the team leader and he knew we didn't have players before the default time and because of that he never agreed to play the game earlier than the default time
b) it's not our fault we can't reschedule the game for any other day than next sunday, it's yours
c) we were online on a ns2wc server at default time with 6 on and we got proof of it (a screenshot and admins should have a server log) so if anything Ascension should be the forfeiting one
However, we can and will play the game whenever possible for both the teams. I don't know why you are bringing this up to public forum and trying to defame us like this. Is it really that important for you to bypass one of your top contenders for a chance of the lan spot?
Please keep this topic between us and the tournament admins in the future, this is just pointless drama.
b) it's not our fault we can't reschedule the game for any other day than next sunday, it's yours
c) we were online on a ns2wc server at default time with 6 on and we got proof of it (a screenshot and admins should have a server log) so if anything Ascension should be the forfeiting one
Come on bro?
There is a 12 hour difference... ascension are perfectly happy playing 6pm on a weekday and you can play 6am (1-2 hours before you start work). You can't start any earlier as people are still at work / coming home from work.
Let's be reasonable... we all work full time jobs. It actually is impossible to play unless you want to force 1 team to wake up at 6am giving the other team 6pm to play. We organised with your team member a time, confirmed it with a separate member who was under the belief the game was occurring. We did everything we could to play you guys... What more did you want us to do?
Your team went to 1% the effort of getting this match organised compared to Slayar. Simply falling back on 'default' time which only suites Europeans in a global tournament is quite silly. If an equal effort was made by someone on your team, this situation would not of arose. This is a global tournament, you're going to have to compromise and play outside of a time that suits you to meet half way.
Okay - i preached we shouldn't dramatize this on the forums then did it hypocritically when bored. Sorry Zefram, other admins, Quactus, spectators, Ascension, etc etc etc etc etc.
I'll stay up late tonight so we can talk and find a time to play this match.
c) we were online on a ns2wc server at default time with 6 on and we got proof of it (a screenshot and admins should have a server log) so if anything Ascension should be the forfeiting one
In AU the default time is 3-4am. We could probably agree that the argument of being in a server at the default time is pretty silly.
Please keep this topic between us and the tournament admins in the future, this is just pointless drama.
c) we were online on a ns2wc server at default time with 6 on and we got proof of it (a screenshot and admins should have a server log) so if anything Ascension should be the forfeiting one.
bahaha.
And we have proof of having 6 in the server at the confirmed time as per the schedule (that was there for like, a week by the way).
We wanted to play the match. But a 12 hour time difference in a world championship tournament requires some finesse. We've been offering a massive 14-16 hour window to teams to get games done. And everything else mf said.
Says don't dramatize the no-show of a team. makes posts. Who fucking cares. Just reschedule the game and play it.
The NSL has engrained that shitty mentality into NS2. Who cares if we don't show, or put zero effort into organising a match? We'll play it 6 weeks from now! I'd like to think the WC. Which is being run in a quarter of the time and has to take into account the timezone differences would take scheduling a little more seriously.
Comments
Group A
Also known as "Group Boring" (that would've made a lot more sense if this was Group B, sigh), with Legendary Snails all but guaranteed to take the top spot and Radical likely taking the second spot in the quarter finals. The only question is whether or not Snails will lose any rounds in group play. My guess is no.
Group B
Arguably the weakest group in the qualifiers, but that also makes things more interesting, as the difference between the top spot and second spot in this group is also likely the difference between playing in Cologne and watching the stream. Titus recently lost two keys players in Bitey and rline, but they're still a strong team and favorites to secure the top spot in Group B. Retired is their only likely challenger, and while it would be an upset, they may just have a shot at beating Titus.
As an amusing side note, I assume the team name "Retired" is a jib against the OP, where I wrote that Boom had retired. Obviously he hasn't, since he's playing for Retired. Blame Bitey, he's the one who gave me that particular piece of rotten information!
Group C
Battle of the north, as Saunamen, the least-practicing tier 1 team in NS2, takes on Quactus, the unholy matrimony of Quaxy and Exertus. Quactus has been practicing heavily, getting decent results in practice matches against other tier 1 teams, whilst the Saunamen have pursued their usual schedule of "meh play every once in a while but still do well". I assume Saunamen has the upper hand, but this group is entirely open.
Ascension is the dark horse team, and while it seems unlikely that they'll be able to beat Saunamen or Quactus, their performance against these two teams may end up deciding which Finnish team ends up first and which ends up second in the group.
Group D
Perhaps the most exciting group, both because Godar and Imagine are very closely matched, and because this is a grudge match between jaivol and his former teammates.
Godar have been struggling without their Spanish commander, but picking up Aioros as their new commander, and the the last minute release of Eissfeldt from VACtivity, has rekindled their hopes. Whereas they were losing almost every practice match they played a few weeks ago, they have recently been going toe to toe with Imagine. Their recent fall from grace (going from the top seeded team in NSL S3 group play to a fourth place finish in a matter of weeks) is unprecedented in competitive Natural Selection history, and they're still nowhere near their past form. With excellent players like valkjuri and Eissfeldt leading the way, though, they are a real contender for a top finish in this group, and a trip to Cologne.
Imagine, on the other hand, are the new kids on the block, defined by jaivol's excellent leadership. Sporting a roughly 50/50 mix of players previously in tier 1 and tier 2 teams, this team is the big surprise entry to this tournament. In practice matches they've been rolling from victory to victory, at times looking like they were ready to roll all the way to first place in Cologne. Lately, they've been struggling a bit more against opponents who seem to have somewhat adapted to their style of play, but they are still posting favorable results against the other tier 1 teams. Their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, as their fantastic cooperative play, guided by jaivol's positional micromanaging, can easily overwhelm opponents, but it also causes them to sometimes force engagements under unfavorable conditions. While they have a very talented group of players, there are also some questions to be raised about the top level experience of some of their players. This is very much a team where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, but one also has to keep in mind that a team is only as strong as its weakest link.
In the past, questions have been raised over Godar's inability to perform in important matches. Some say it's jaivol who has been folding under pressure, but surely the rest of the team must have had something to do with it as well? Group D is the perfect opportunity to put that argument to rest. Jaivol will either redeem himself as the magician commander he seems to be in practice matches, or Godar will prove that they don't need him to succeed. Personally, I can't say which team will come out on top. They both still have a fair chance at winning their quarter final regardless of who they face from Group C, however, so this inter-group competition may turn out to just be a battle for bragging rights.
Wild speculation on potential quarter finals
1. Legendary Snails > Retired: Despite sub-par performance in recent practice matches, I expect the Snails to dispatch their american opposition in a slimy way.
2. Titus Gaming > Radical: Titus Gaming is the likely victor here, although this is a matchup where an upset is possible.
3. Saunamen ? Godar: Too close to call. Godar will be eager to avenge past playoffs losses to Saunamen (European Open semi final, NSL S3 bronze final).
4. Imagine > Quactus: Imagine have been doing very well against Quactus in practice matches, and this is likely their preferred opponent in the quarter final.
To illustrate just how closely the teams are matched, and how unpredictable Group C vs. Group D is, let me recount the results of a few practice matches on monday and tuesday this week. On monday I merced for Imagine against Quactus. Jaivol was off doing jaivol things, so Imagine grabbed a random commander from a public server, and still beat Quactus 5-0. Later that same day, Imagine lost 1-3 to Godar, this time with jaivol commanding two rounds and Hopeanuoli (of Saunamen) merc commanding two rounds. The next day, Quactus beat Godar 6-2. Imagine > Quactus > Godar > Imagine. That's some Ouroboros worm steez aight.
It's not just these three teams, though. The field is wide open right now. A couple of weeks ago I played in a mix with players from various american teams, and beat Snails 3-1 on a european server (I got a sweeeeet solo quad frag with shotgun in that match). I've also merced for Imagine when they've beaten both Snails and Saunamen. As it is, the seedings probably don't accurately reflect the teams' performance right now, but then again, the teams who have done well in practice matches over the past few weeks may suddenly stumble when it comes to actual tournament matches. We'll just have to see what happens.
That was fun. Analysis after matches plox.
The belief is high in iMAGINE. We feel confident and won't crumble under "tournament pressure". All we have to do is jump on and play our game like every other day. We're winning more than not meaning teams are going to be more afraid of us and that will definitely be in our favour in these matches.
Mine doesn't do that, nice monitor idiot
Either you guys are trulin or my pc has gone full retard, and I'm fairly certain it hasn't.
ATTN PEOPLE:
Please avoid dramatizing the Ascension vs Quactus situation and allow the admins to consider the situation without politics getting involved.
Essentially, Quactus didn't show up at the time of the match and claims they never officially confirmed the time (which was an arguably an "iffy" confirmation). I had discussed the time with Zups early Thursday and had believed he had unofficially confirmed but wasn't sure about a player so he didn't "officially confirm" (the disputed evidence). Further this, the one player on their team online did show up and believed they were playing saying Quactus had agreed as a team on Thursday they were playing the time/date then changed this when he was away on Friday/Saturday (but did not tell anyone outside Quactus). This resulted in Ascension, a caster, and an estimated 200 specs(?) waiting on server/stream for 30 minutes.
Copy-pasted from AusNS2 Forums:
I've discussed the situation with the admins and Quactus understands the situation. The results are:
-We will attempt to reschedule next Sunday, prioritizing the other four matches we have to play verse European teams.
-If we cannot find a time to play each other, Quactus will be judged as forfeiting.
The reason Quactus has not already been judged as forfeiting is Ascensions keenness to play them and the "greyness" of whether Zups (Quactus captain?) confirmed the time or not. The evidence suggested he may have confirmed but communicated the confirmation in a way which avoided official confirmation.
As our Australian team already has four European teams to play on Sunday during the small time window our time-zones allow us to compete, Quactus will be forced to wake up a bit earlier to re-attempt to play this match in a time more suitable for us. I'll post when we have a confirmed time for the rescheduled match, or if they simply forfeit.
edit: turns out, i'm blind.
http://www.ns2wc.com/?page_id=2072
Since it's pretty late (soon 4am) and I have to get a few hours sleep before work I cba to write a long bs post, but here's our response to your "what happened":
a) zups is not the team leader and he knew we didn't have players before the default time and because of that he never agreed to play the game earlier than the default time
b) it's not our fault we can't reschedule the game for any other day than next sunday, it's yours
c) we were online on a ns2wc server at default time with 6 on and we got proof of it (a screenshot and admins should have a server log) so if anything Ascension should be the forfeiting one
However, we can and will play the game whenever possible for both the teams. I don't know why you are bringing this up to public forum and trying to defame us like this. Is it really that important for you to bypass one of your top contenders for a chance of the lan spot?
Please keep this topic between us and the tournament admins in the future, this is just pointless drama.
Come on bro?
There is a 12 hour difference... ascension are perfectly happy playing 6pm on a weekday and you can play 6am (1-2 hours before you start work). You can't start any earlier as people are still at work / coming home from work.
Let's be reasonable... we all work full time jobs. It actually is impossible to play unless you want to force 1 team to wake up at 6am giving the other team 6pm to play. We organised with your team member a time, confirmed it with a separate member who was under the belief the game was occurring. We did everything we could to play you guys... What more did you want us to do?
Your team went to 1% the effort of getting this match organised compared to Slayar. Simply falling back on 'default' time which only suites Europeans in a global tournament is quite silly. If an equal effort was made by someone on your team, this situation would not of arose. This is a global tournament, you're going to have to compromise and play outside of a time that suits you to meet half way.
We WANT to play you guys...
I'll stay up late tonight so we can talk and find a time to play this match.
Nonono, he said he would like to PREVENT drama. You seem to be confused.
In AU the default time is 3-4am. We could probably agree that the argument of being in a server at the default time is pretty silly.
+1
bahaha.
And we have proof of having 6 in the server at the confirmed time as per the schedule (that was there for like, a week by the way).
We wanted to play the match. But a 12 hour time difference in a world championship tournament requires some finesse. We've been offering a massive 14-16 hour window to teams to get games done. And everything else mf said.
The NSL has engrained that shitty mentality into NS2. Who cares if we don't show, or put zero effort into organising a match? We'll play it 6 weeks from now! I'd like to think the WC. Which is being run in a quarter of the time and has to take into account the timezone differences would take scheduling a little more seriously.