The constructive "Let's make NS2WC an awesome broadcast" thread

SolarisSolaris Join Date: 2003-05-11 Member: 16213Members Posts: 185
I admit when I saw the big reveal that was announced to change NS2 forever was another tournament, I was disappointed and skeptic. But now that the NS2WC is funded, and because I still do love NS2, I think we should have a serious and constructive discussion on how to make the broadcast of the finals an awesome event to watch!

The last big finals in Germany were "not very good", to put it mildly. But we can learn from those mistakes (I hope). Some points to get this discussion started:

1.) Be classy. Drop the childish antics. No wrestling, no facepainting. Seriously. It was bad. Baaaaaaaaaaad.

2.) We need professional looking footage to fill the time between rounds. Hearing you people talk is nice and all, but we are a visual species, we want eye candy.
2.1) I suggest short "intro" movies for each of the maps that will be played, showing key locations and landmarks, explaining what makes the map special, and set the "mood" for the coming 2 rounds.
2.2) A "way to the finals" montage for each of the two teams, consisting of clips form the matches during the tournament. Have one for each of the teams and discuss it afterwards in the studio. These videos will a) allow to show of some sweet action packed gameplay, b) convey the enthusiasm of the casters, and c) show (not just tell) the viewers why these people earned to sit in that studio fighting for 1st place!

3.) As much fun as they are on the "regular" casts, please resist the urge to do any kind of live raffle, "pick a clock", etc. They take too long and drive the attention away from the game to a single anonymous viewer while a thousand others have to wait. Waiting - Is - Bad!

4.) Put more emphasis on the community. Not only because this tournament is (partly) a comumnity effort, but because the communty is a big selling point. We know it, pretty much every reviewer noted it, so go and tell the people! Yes this game is hard. Yes this game has a learning curve. But you are not alone! Sure, we got the elitist pricks, the egoistic teamstackers, etc., just like every other game does - BUT a vast part of the NS community is friendly and helpful. We who love this game want others to enjoy it, and most of us will gladly help the "greens" out - if they just open their mouths and ask.

4.1) Yes, this is an "esport" event, but I can't stress enough that the dedicated community IS a selling point or par with engaging gameplay and tactical depth!

5.) "Fillers". To me it felt that a lot of the really bad stuff from the last finals in Germany was there to stretch the broadcast as long as possible. "We paid for 3 hours, we'll get 3 hours"... something like that. Pleas be prepared for that! If one team is completely stomping the other one, have a plan B. Say the teams will take a break to gather themselves, discuss tactics, whatever. And then give the viewers some gameplay! Pick some people from the audience and have them play a round of Last Stand against the Devs who sit at home in San Fransico. Kill the devs, win stuff! Whatever you decide to use as "Filler", please please make it gameplay related! If not Last Stand, pick two guys from the audience and have them fight in the NS2 "Street Fighter" Mod. They can do that on one computer! (And you get to show off the modding posibilities). But always remember 1.) Please please remember 1.)

Ok guys, your turn to get this discussion going. What do you want to see? What do you NOT want to see? And why?
The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club.
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Comments

  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 657 Fully active user
    RedDog wrote: »
    Hey guys!

    I wanted to thank everyone for their personal interest in this event and keep suggestions coming. I will have to admit that most, if not all, of these points have already been addressed in our discussions. Remember, the planning and organization of this event will largely be from myself, WasabiOne, Zefram and a few other community members.

    I will say it right here: You will not be disappointed. This will be a high quality, highly professional event with fantastic coverage of the game, the community, and its members/players. We want to ensure you are entertained and that this event is something you all can be proud of being apart of.

    Thanks again everyone!

    Make sure Blind is there :D
    JuCCi
  • SolarisSolaris Join Date: 2003-05-11 Member: 16213Members Posts: 185
    RedDog wrote: »
    I will have to admit that most, if not all, of these points have already been addressed in our discussions.
    I am really happy to hear that. To be perfectly clear, the goal of this thread is to give you guys as much input as we can to make sure you guys can prepare ("knowing os half the battle" and so forth) ;) And maybe there are some things you missed, misjudged or simply didn't think of.

    Tht said, please do not hesitate to ask the community for early feedback to your ideas. I know it's important to not show all your cards beforehand, but let's be frank here, the record for "big/awesome surprises, reveals, etc." hasn't been all that great lately. If I learned one thing in my job it's that testing the acceptance of a broad idea early can save you a LOT of trouble and disappointment :)

    The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club.
  • RedDogRedDog Las Vegas Join Date: 2013-02-22 Member: 183267Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 553 Advanced user
    @Solaris

    Oh totally man, I feel ya! :D Keep em coming!
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,461 Advanced user
    I flat out agree with everything said here. I want to put emphasis on the following:
    Solaris wrote: »
    2.) We need professional looking footage to fill the time between rounds. Hearing you people talk is nice and all, but we are a visual species, we want eye candy.
    2.1) I suggest short "intro" movies for each of the maps that will be played, showing key locations and landmarks, explaining what makes the map special, and set the "mood" for the coming 2 rounds.
    2.2) A "way to the finals" montage for each of the two teams, consisting of clips form the matches during the tournament. Have one for each of the teams and discuss it afterwards in the studio. These videos will a) allow to show of some sweet action packed gameplay, b) convey the enthusiasm of the casters, and c) show (not just tell) the viewers why these people earned to sit in that studio fighting for 1st place!

    Intro videos for everything would be very cool. Very professional. Please be as professional as possible ;)
    Solaris wrote: »
    5.) "Fillers". To me it felt that a lot of the really bad stuff from the last finals in Germany was there to stretch the broadcast as long as possible. "We paid for 3 hours, we'll get 3 hours"... something like that. Pleas be prepared for that! If one team is completely stomping the other one, have a plan B. Say the teams will take a break to gather themselves, discuss tactics, whatever. And then give the viewers some gameplay! Pick some people from the audience and have them play a round of Last Stand against the Devs who sit at home in San Fransico. Kill the devs, win stuff! Whatever you decide to use as "Filler", please please make it gameplay related! If not Last Stand, pick two guys from the audience and have them fight in the NS2 "Street Fighter" Mod. They can do that on one computer! (And you get to show off the modding posibilities). But always remember 1.) Please please remember 1.)

    Same as above.
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'd be cool if you could record every players first person view with 10(12) spectator slots, so you could show the highlights in first person, without having to rely on the commentators to do that.
    Kind of a workaround for the lacking replay system.

    More first person action, please! NS2 is a RTS, but last time it was almost exclusively in top-down view (a friend of mine who is not a NS2 player even remarked this, he found it strange). I'd like to see a bit more first person speccing. Maybe most of it in the editing afterwards, or via picture-in-picture (one caster does top-down, the other first-person).
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    Last time, there wasn't a 1st person spec mode, though. RedDog and other casters have got very very good recently at switching to various modes to catch the action. I think they'll do a great job!

    Putting together a post-round analysis (think Simon Hughes' cricket 'the analyst') with high def recorded demo footage would be amazing to catch those crucial plays from the relevant players' perspectives.
    This might require a few casters on hand behind the scenes to compose these, and would definitely require play/stop/ff/rw controls for demos and/or a quick way to record into an appropriate format... Assuming the machines provided are very high spec, demo recording shouldn't be an issue. Actually, the last time I tried 'shadowplay' in the Nvidia drivers, it worked very well, and it records in a nice easy format, too.

    It's going to be fantastic, I have faith in these guys :)
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,461 Advanced user
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Last time, there wasn't a 1st person spec mode, though. RedDog and other casters have got very very good recently at switching to various modes to catch the action. I think they'll do a great job!
    Oh. So we got that going for us, which is nice.
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Putting together a post-round analysis (think Simon Hughes' cricket 'the analyst') with high def recorded demo footage would be amazing to catch those crucial plays from the relevant players' perspectives.
    This might require a few casters on hand behind the scenes to compose these, and would definitely require play/stop/ff/rw controls for demos and/or a quick way to record into an appropriate format... Assuming the machines provided are very high spec, demo recording shouldn't be an issue. Actually, the last time I tried 'shadowplay' in the Nvidia drivers, it worked very well, and it records in a nice easy format, too.

    It's going to be fantastic, I have faith in these guys :)

    That would be so awesome.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,037
    #Blind2014
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
    JuCCi
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members Posts: 799 Fully active user
    edited November 2013
    Please don't make too many details hush hush. The community paid for it (well, 16k with the donations from nvidia and so on).
    Don't ever ''get ban''.

    Respect - Justice

    If my posts don't make sense, blame it on my bipolar and carry on. It happens.
  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 754 Advanced user
    nothing is hush hush, but we want to lay out a complete plan when we are ready. this doesnt mean months from now either. There is a lot of work to be done and many people in the community will be helping with lots of the aspects. Also yes, Blind is already part of the casting team :)
    Blarney_StoneRapGodradionautfrantix
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    Jekt wrote: »
    Or the players could just have the recordings done on there own machines using OBS or ShadowPlay. Both solutions allow for very high quality recordings with very, very minimal performance hit. On the fly highlights would be tricky to do, but could be awesome.

    ^ Agree

    I have been using Shadowplay lately. For those who have no idea what it is. It's a free video capture software by NVIDIA, it is already available to any NVIDIA 600+ Series cards, can be activated with a flip of a switch, has no impact on performance, and makes a pre-encoded H264 MP4, can record at 1080p @ 60FPS. Simply wonderful, Of course that 60 FPS won't be visible on YouTube, but it will allow for nice slow mo's. With all the footage from all the players collected and available, we could make some really good montages, for further promotional material for NS2, etc.
    Cheers,
    It's Super Effective! | @ISEGaming | Twitch.tv/ISEGaming | Google+ | Steam | Super Effective Gamers Public Steam Group

    - NS2 NA Playtester
    - Creator of: NS2 Tactical Operations, Intel Update and In-Game Tutorials.
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 581 Advanced user
    Jekt wrote: »
    Or the players could just have the recordings done on there own machines using OBS or ShadowPlay. Both solutions allow for very high quality recordings with very, very minimal performance hit. On the fly highlights would be tricky to do, but could be awesome.

    ^ Agree

    I have been using Shadowplay lately. For those who have no idea what it is. It's a free video capture software by NVIDIA, it is already available to any NVIDIA 600+ Series cards, can be activated with a flip of a switch, has no impact on performance, and makes a pre-encoded H264 MP4, can record at 1080p @ 60FPS. Simply wonderful, Of course that 60 FPS won't be visible on YouTube, but it will allow for nice slow mo's. With all the footage from all the players collected and available, we could make some really good montages, for further promotional material for NS2, etc.

    I don't know how this event is going to work (if they're going to a popular LAN or whatever), but seeing how nvidia showed interest in the game with the $8000 donation, perhaps talk to them to see if they'll sponsor the event with 600+ series cards for this purpose?

    If this is going to be at an already distinguished event this shouldn't be needed as they should supply capable PC's there, just bringing it up. I'm sure this could be great advertising for nvidia's shadowplay.
    SynVisions
  • radionautradionaut california Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181192Members, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 114 Advanced user
    launch plenty of t-shirts (via t-shirt cannon) and gorge plushies into the crowd
    HPAQ6it.png
    meatmachineVetinari
  • KbpringleKbpringle Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 187003Members Posts: 29
    Interviews with players/ teams that got close to the finals discussing tactics (pre-recorded is fine). Why do you use a 3-2 split on Biodome vs a 2-2-1 on Summit (I'm making shit up but you get the point). Positioning, what the hot spots are going to be on the map, etc.

    A breakdown of the timing of the rock paper scissors tech race between alien and marine (as this will obviously be recorded and used to attract new players. Basically talk about all the complicated things that make NS2 so much fun.

  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 1,335 Advanced user
    for further promotional material for NS2, etc.

    Competitive players don't play with maximum graphics on (except Colt rofl) so I doubt that would fly. All NS2 official promotional material I've seen has used the graphics to the fullest.
    "If great visuals brings players in, great gameplay gets them to stay." - Valve
    joshhhcarnage-wp-
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    Perhaps, but the point is that at the last event, we had some footage, and it had a lot of frame loss, which is why It wasn't used at all in the Trailer for NSWC. What with UWE wanting NS2 to have prominence on the competitive scene, shouldn't there be libraries of footage of competitive players (regardless of the player's preference) in a nice smooth [email protected] goodness available at UWE's whim?

    I mean, we can all assume there WILL be gaming rigs available at this event, and that the players themselves won't be bringing their own machines or sub-par machine bring provided, so unless the GPU cards that the players are using not 600+ series or AMD's (which would be funny for a NVIDIA/INTEL Sponsored event) I don't see the problem in collecting some footage that has no performance impact on the players.
    Cheers,
    It's Super Effective! | @ISEGaming | Twitch.tv/ISEGaming | Google+ | Steam | Super Effective Gamers Public Steam Group

    - NS2 NA Playtester
    - Creator of: NS2 Tactical Operations, Intel Update and In-Game Tutorials.
    Jekt
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    As long as graphics options aren't forced on the players.

    The consequence is that recordings are going to be varying in resolution, texture quality .. and that's probably it. Everyone runs the game with everything else disabled right?

    To that end first person spectator recording would be required, but I have never seen it be accurate enough to really be taken seriously. Perhaps it would be acceptable at LAN? I know it is completely unusable on high pings.

    If only there was some sort of system where players could record games of Natural Selection 2 to a file, that could be played back on any other installation of Natural Selection 2 regardless of the settings of computer hardware. A "demo" system of some sort.
    Mouse
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    @Locklear
    Oi, I run with high graphics & max infestation.
    'only' div 3, but hey thats competitive :D
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  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,566 mod
    I wonder how viable a proper, stand-alone NS2TV program would be as a community project. If it is viable, whether it could be finished & polished in time for this event.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 876 Advanced user
    And for the love of god UWE, no major changes to game play / mechanic around the time of the finals!! I think a stable build and familiar game play is more important to people than the next new shiny addition (at least until the event is done). Community is definitely the most valuable asset of the NS2 game.
    Author of a ePaper manual for NS2, now also a steam guide
    Co-wrote the Marine EXO Suit Protocol
  • BellicoseBellicose Join Date: 2013-04-11 Member: 184748Members Posts: 87
    You know what I'm stoked about? That this event will be organized by real community members! Hugh, I love you man and I mean this in the nicest way - but I swear if I saw an orange pant-wearing, gorge face painted, onos wrestling guy jumping around the stage like a jack russell terrier being like "me" "me" "me" - I would lose all respect for the event and feel embarrassed (however, he was a tad better at i49, minus those damn orange pants which always reminds me of how young he is).

    Wasabi and Reddog both have said this event will be highly professional. So let's dress it up! All presenters in suits or at least jackets. Comb some hair, spritz some cologne, wax your eyebrows - ok maybe not that last one. Let's get some espn-esque broadcast up in here! :D

    Oh and +1 to Blind being there. Him and Reddog casting live on the big stage together - that's sure to be epic...
  • KbpringleKbpringle Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 187003Members Posts: 29
    edited November 2013
    Am I the only one that likes to run the game on full settings? It's not Crysis but NS2 can be a pretty good looking game and has some cool effects (the slight shimmer of a phantom skulk can cause some panic). I know I've had some "Oh Shit" moments when the wall next to my head shimmers or distorts and you know its go time.
    radionauttummy_yummy
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 515 Advanced user
    play some ItsSuperEffective's tutorial videos! Something for anyone unfamiliar with the game that may be watching some learning points! Something to make getting the game less daunting!
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,037
    I definitely think a real effort should be made to teach the game mechanics to those unfamiliar with the game. The entire reason the community funded this was the hope that it would increase the exposure of NS2 and lead to a higher playerbase long-term, so an effort must be made to explain the game to the uninitiated.
    if it keeps on raining the levee's going to break
    SebBenson
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    edited November 2013

    I mean, we can all assume there WILL be gaming rigs available at this event, and that the players themselves won't be bringing their own machines or sub-par machine bring provided, so unless the GPU cards that the players are using not 600+ series or AMD's (which would be funny for a NVIDIA/INTEL Sponsored event) I don't see the problem in collecting some footage that has no performance impact on the players.

    I can tell you flat out that most of the players who will be going to the event will turn down their graphics even if the LAN machines can handle high fps 1080p. Hell... my rig at home can handle 100+ fps on 1080 but I still choose to play on 720p with lowish settings.
    @Locklear
    Oi, I run with high graphics & max infestation.
    'only' div 3, but hey thats competitive :D
    You must be some sort of wizard.
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