i was spending a lot of time thinking about this topic, and trying to find a way how to please every player. My conclusion now is that its impossible, to create 1 screen effect that everyone likes. So i went ahead and added a new menu option for next patch: "full" and "minimal" alien vision. Minimal will be basically what has been requested in this thread, and the full vision mode will remain the current more cinematic version. for people who prefer different colors, there are still mods on steam workshop which will just work the same way in the new build as before (ie: they will NOT break)
Please, next patch give us something as promised long ago. Still can't stand the current AV implementation.
Minimal was "too good" and would result in the same reason why is was changed in the first place, so it was never added, and will not be added.
I came back to this thread to ask about the status because I was happy back then when you said there would be another less eye burning AV implemented officially. Disappointing to see now that it's not going to be an option.
Also glad that i caught you saying it. Wouldn't want to search through endless pages here to find the conclusion.
I just hope more server admins catch up and unlock AV on their servers. Except for NSL config servers, I don't see the point of being more restrictive than the standard game.
Actually, I've come to the point that I avoid servers with locked AV. Unnecessary eye strain is not something I want in gaming... and especially not in a fast-paced game where even respawn times are best used for checking the map.
i was spending a lot of time thinking about this topic, and trying to find a way how to please every player. My conclusion now is that its impossible, to create 1 screen effect that everyone likes. So i went ahead and added a new menu option for next patch: "full" and "minimal" alien vision. Minimal will be basically what has been requested in this thread, and the full vision mode will remain the current more cinematic version. for people who prefer different colors, there are still mods on steam workshop which will just work the same way in the new build as before (ie: they will NOT break)
Please, next patch give us something as promised long ago. Still can't stand the current AV implementation.
Minimal was "too good" and would result in the same reason why is was changed in the first place, so it was never added, and will not be added.
I thought the reason was primarily because the level design was only really being experienced half of the time as aliens always had their green and orange vision up. Minimal vision got rid of this. Obviously I've been misinformed about this though...
Also: just because there is a reason why it was changed (i.e. it being 'too good') doesn't mean it was a good reason. Minimal vision being "too good" barely even effects balance (although I could be wrong - so maybe check winrates between servers that allow/disallow AV mods for both comp and pub). However, not including a non-headache-inducing alien vision is a MAJOR blow to simple quality-of-life features this game should be encouraging (e.g. the "cystem" - this isn't a "too good" feature. This is just something that's a nice quality-of-life improvement). Quite simply, a decent AV (e.g. minimal) doesn't make aliens particularly easier, it just makes it a lot more enjoyable.
Most people, given the choice, do not want to strain there eyes unnecessarily just for the sake of having a tradeoff for alien vision. Incorporating elements of Where's Wally into alien play does not make for particularly interesting or deep gameplay. There is no reason why aliens need to play a low-contrast shooter as opposed to a high-contrast one. It doesn't make sense in terms of gameplay. It barely makes sense for balance. It doesn't make sense in terms of enjoyability. It doesn't even make sense in terms of immersion (aliens should have NO trouble with spotting humans).
This is an extremely disappointing decision. With all of the wonderful work sewlek has accomplished, I thought we had seen a reversal on some of the poor decisions made throughout the beta and early release that made elements of gameplay unnecessarily cumbersome, annoying, and restrictive (e.g. skulk movement). I thought he would have the good sense to move ahead with this change. It's what the majority of regular players want. Is anybody really going to be complaining that they died because of OP alien vision? Psssh... "OMG YOU COULD SEE ME WITH YOUR EYES! THAT'S NOT FAIR!"
i was spending a lot of time thinking about this topic, and trying to find a way how to please every player. My conclusion now is that its impossible, to create 1 screen effect that everyone likes. So i went ahead and added a new menu option for next patch: "full" and "minimal" alien vision. Minimal will be basically what has been requested in this thread, and the full vision mode will remain the current more cinematic version. for people who prefer different colors, there are still mods on steam workshop which will just work the same way in the new build as before (ie: they will NOT break)
Please, next patch give us something as promised long ago. Still can't stand the current AV implementation.
Minimal was "too good" and would result in the same reason why is was changed in the first place, so it was never added, and will not be added.
I guess a 600 reply thread with the majority of it being discussion on how much the current implementation of AV sucks isn't enough to get some change? Might as well just remove it and rework how dark rooms work , because it's just a PITA to toggle on/off to benefit the alien life form for a few seconds of use. Trying to fight Marines as the power goes off and fumbling to turn on the alien vision isn't fun. Skulk hoping through a dark room where power just went down to toggle it on for 2-3 seconds as you pass through only to need to turn it off almost instantly isn't fun. Leaving it on all the time is an eye sore. It's just badly implemented for the way you guys want us to use it. You took something no one complained about and made it into a hindrance for the Aliens.
If you guys aren't willing to give us the old or implement something new, at the very least try to improve the current AV. Something like auto-toggling it when rooms go dark and having in fade in/out depending on the room contrast. So if you're fighting marines while Gorges bile the power and power goes down, the AV fades to on mode automatically so you don't have to manually toggle it. You start to leave the dark room, the AV fades to OFF. The room power lighting starts to come back, the AV fades to OFF.
I just wonder when people will realise that you don't need AV anymore...?
99% of the time standard vision works perfectly well. The other percent is in dark rooms, (where you are actually supposed to use AV)...
Which supports my earlier comment, you might as well just remove it and rework how dark rooms work. It's rarely used and when it does need to be used, it just gets in the way the majority of the time.
I've said this before, I'll say it again. Uke's Alien Vision should be the standard. You can leave it on without strain to the eyes, plus you can see textures that are close to you. I use this sometimes, although I try to not play with modded AV since it's not allowed in the NSL.
I think I am at the point where I prefer vanilla vision with AV set to off over everything else. I even went back and tried Huze's mod and the Old AV mod and just didn't like them. *shrug* Alien vision ON is now just like my marine flashlight... only used for 5 seconds when power goes out.
i was spending a lot of time thinking about this topic, and trying to find a way how to please every player. My conclusion now is that its impossible, to create 1 screen effect that everyone likes. So i went ahead and added a new menu option for next patch: "full" and "minimal" alien vision. Minimal will be basically what has been requested in this thread, and the full vision mode will remain the current more cinematic version. for people who prefer different colors, there are still mods on steam workshop which will just work the same way in the new build as before (ie: they will NOT break)
Please, next patch give us something as promised long ago. Still can't stand the current AV implementation.
Minimal was "too good" and would result in the same reason why is was changed in the first place, so it was never added, and will not be added.
Wut ? And what are these reasons exactly ?
-Making players like alien side (because having the proper hunter tools) instead of being tortured in a sitting duck contest when a potent marine team shows up ???
-Or on high player count server (which become clearly unbalanced when marines get to know how to shoot) ??? ... ??? ...
-To see competitive players (or entire team) leave because of re-learning the game again and again (Not only AV's fault but clearly a disappointment from the discussion i had with some) ?
-To see mappers lowering the pace of their project while the game desperately need it. Nobody know if some will ever be finished. Lack of interest in the player base mean ultimately to the lack of interest for mappers (why make a map if no-one plays it ?).
just because the thread is year old doesn't mean it's a necro. the last post was in december, and it's not like it's not still relevant. I bet if someone started a new thread, you'd jump on them for not searching the forums.
Can I vote for old alien vision again, even though Ive pretty much forgotten what it was like.. the orange has brainwashed me... all hail the orange. 8-}
I know it's been a while since anyone's talked about this. I also don't really care, because I have to agree with 90% of the people posting here: The new washed-out all-orange alien vision blows flaming monkey chunks.
I know it's been a while since anyone's talked about this. I also don't really care, because I have to agree with 90% of the people posting here: The new washed-out all-orange alien vision blows flaming monkey chunks.
Change it back or give us an option. -_-
Use ns2+ and play on ns2+ servers. You get the options of several alien visions with a lot more too.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
Was digging this up really necessary? There is no issue. The new alien vision is a flashlight. Deal with it.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
I will say it again. Use ns2+ and play on ns2+ servers. You will get better alien vision to suit your needs and a lot lot more.
If ns2+ is not satisfactory, bring it up with the new community development team.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
Was digging this up really necessary? There is no issue. The new alien vision is a flashlight. Deal with it.
just didn't want anyone to think that roobubba spoke for me. And a month isn't terribly egregious a necro.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
I will say it again. Use ns2+ and play on ns2+ servers. You will get better alien vision to suit your needs and a lot lot more.
If ns2+ is not satisfactory, bring it up with the new community development team.
pointing people at a mod isn't terribly useful, unless most servers are running that mod. this isn't single player, other people are kind of necessary. limiting yourself to ns2+ servers... is literally the least useful advice you could have offered at this point.
My issues in this thread have been entirely resolved through the excellent work of @mendasp who implemented several alien visions into NS2+, which is used in competitive and on many pub servers. It needs to be on more public servers, though!
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
I will say it again. Use ns2+ and play on ns2+ servers. You will get better alien vision to suit your needs and a lot lot more.
If ns2+ is not satisfactory, bring it up with the new community development team.
pointing people at a mod isn't terribly useful, unless most servers are running that mod. this isn't single player, other people are kind of necessary. limiting yourself to ns2+ servers... is literally the least useful advice you could have offered at this point.
I don't know what region you are but many many servers. I can't say for sure, but I bet they are more quality than non ns2+ servers too. I also did say, if that was non satisfactory you should talk to the community development team.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Wow, DAT Necro... must be a slow day on the interwebs...
A month ago, CDT didn't exist. Now with the CDT in place, NS2+'s "Choose your own AV" being in the base game could be a reality, now please let this horse lay in peace.
Wow, DAT Necro... must be a slow day on the interwebs...
A month ago, CDT didn't exist. Now with the CDT in place, NS2+'s "Choose your own AV" being in the base game could be a reality, now please let this horse lay in peace.
While choose your AV COULD be in the base game, it's unlikely. The alien vision was changed so that aliens players could appreciate how pretty the game is. With that goal in mind, I doubt we'll ever offer old alien visions back into vanilla. Cory is still our art director, we'd have to talk with him about it. I'll let you guys know though!
Wow, DAT Necro... must be a slow day on the interwebs...
A month ago, CDT didn't exist. Now with the CDT in place, NS2+'s "Choose your own AV" being in the base game could be a reality, now please let this horse lay in peace.
While choose your AV COULD be in the base game, it's unlikely. The alien vision was changed so that aliens players could appreciate how pretty the game is. With that goal in mind, I doubt we'll ever offer old alien visions back into vanilla. Cory is still our art director, we'd have to talk with him about it. I'll let you guys know though!
Huze's minimal has solved that problem for so long it's not even funny.
Comments
Actually, I've come to the point that I avoid servers with locked AV. Unnecessary eye strain is not something I want in gaming... and especially not in a fast-paced game where even respawn times are best used for checking the map.
I thought the reason was primarily because the level design was only really being experienced half of the time as aliens always had their green and orange vision up. Minimal vision got rid of this. Obviously I've been misinformed about this though...
Also: just because there is a reason why it was changed (i.e. it being 'too good') doesn't mean it was a good reason. Minimal vision being "too good" barely even effects balance (although I could be wrong - so maybe check winrates between servers that allow/disallow AV mods for both comp and pub). However, not including a non-headache-inducing alien vision is a MAJOR blow to simple quality-of-life features this game should be encouraging (e.g. the "cystem" - this isn't a "too good" feature. This is just something that's a nice quality-of-life improvement). Quite simply, a decent AV (e.g. minimal) doesn't make aliens particularly easier, it just makes it a lot more enjoyable.
Most people, given the choice, do not want to strain there eyes unnecessarily just for the sake of having a tradeoff for alien vision. Incorporating elements of Where's Wally into alien play does not make for particularly interesting or deep gameplay. There is no reason why aliens need to play a low-contrast shooter as opposed to a high-contrast one. It doesn't make sense in terms of gameplay. It barely makes sense for balance. It doesn't make sense in terms of enjoyability. It doesn't even make sense in terms of immersion (aliens should have NO trouble with spotting humans).
This is an extremely disappointing decision. With all of the wonderful work sewlek has accomplished, I thought we had seen a reversal on some of the poor decisions made throughout the beta and early release that made elements of gameplay unnecessarily cumbersome, annoying, and restrictive (e.g. skulk movement). I thought he would have the good sense to move ahead with this change. It's what the majority of regular players want. Is anybody really going to be complaining that they died because of OP alien vision? Psssh... "OMG YOU COULD SEE ME WITH YOUR EYES! THAT'S NOT FAIR!"
I guess a 600 reply thread with the majority of it being discussion on how much the current implementation of AV sucks isn't enough to get some change? Might as well just remove it and rework how dark rooms work , because it's just a PITA to toggle on/off to benefit the alien life form for a few seconds of use. Trying to fight Marines as the power goes off and fumbling to turn on the alien vision isn't fun. Skulk hoping through a dark room where power just went down to toggle it on for 2-3 seconds as you pass through only to need to turn it off almost instantly isn't fun. Leaving it on all the time is an eye sore. It's just badly implemented for the way you guys want us to use it. You took something no one complained about and made it into a hindrance for the Aliens.
If you guys aren't willing to give us the old or implement something new, at the very least try to improve the current AV. Something like auto-toggling it when rooms go dark and having in fade in/out depending on the room contrast. So if you're fighting marines while Gorges bile the power and power goes down, the AV fades to on mode automatically so you don't have to manually toggle it. You start to leave the dark room, the AV fades to OFF. The room power lighting starts to come back, the AV fades to OFF.
99% of the time standard vision works perfectly well. The other percent is in dark rooms, (where you are actually supposed to use AV)...
Which supports my earlier comment, you might as well just remove it and rework how dark rooms work. It's rarely used and when it does need to be used, it just gets in the way the majority of the time.
.
It's really pronounced when moving.
What's the purpose of necro'ing this thread?
Wut ? And what are these reasons exactly ?
-Making players like alien side (because having the proper hunter tools) instead of being tortured in a sitting duck contest when a potent marine team shows up ???
-Or on high player count server (which become clearly unbalanced when marines get to know how to shoot) ??? ... ??? ...
-To see competitive players (or entire team) leave because of re-learning the game again and again (Not only AV's fault but clearly a disappointment from the discussion i had with some) ?
-To see mappers lowering the pace of their project while the game desperately need it. Nobody know if some will ever be finished. Lack of interest in the player base mean ultimately to the lack of interest for mappers (why make a map if no-one plays it ?).
I could go on for an hour like that.
Impress me. What reason?
If you'd read the conversation it's pretty clear...
just because the thread is year old doesn't mean it's a necro. the last post was in december, and it's not like it's not still relevant. I bet if someone started a new thread, you'd jump on them for not searching the forums.
...............................................................................
someone: av
...............................................................................
*huh?*
Change it back or give us an option. -_-
I personally like the minimal alien vision from Huze, and the fact that it now defaults to on is such a godsend.
it's been what? half a year, 600+ posts and literally no official response? allowing mods isn't the same as fixing an issue. but yeah, the mods are great, and they work on UWE servers, but of the servers i try, it's still 50/50 whether i'll be using orange or green.
my issues aren't resolved, sure the gameplay ones were, but my bigger complaint was that there was no actual communication on the issue.
this issue with the actual AV is as resolved as i expect it ever will be, but this does not mean that it was handled well.
The disadvantage of the size of UWE is that it cannot take on beta-testers so must turn to its community for feedback on bugs and fixes and to a certain extent on design issues and balance, but the advantage in this is it should be agile enough to respond to the issues that it's user base brings up. If you're going to be forced to exploit your users as beta-testers, why not actually listen to them when they tell you there's a problem?
again, the thread is one of the longest threads in the forums, don't tell me you weren't aware there was an issue with AV. 6 months of silence.
Was digging this up really necessary? There is no issue. The new alien vision is a flashlight. Deal with it.
I will say it again. Use ns2+ and play on ns2+ servers. You will get better alien vision to suit your needs and a lot lot more.
If ns2+ is not satisfactory, bring it up with the new community development team.
just didn't want anyone to think that roobubba spoke for me. And a month isn't terribly egregious a necro.
pointing people at a mod isn't terribly useful, unless most servers are running that mod. this isn't single player, other people are kind of necessary. limiting yourself to ns2+ servers... is literally the least useful advice you could have offered at this point.
A month ago, CDT didn't exist. Now with the CDT in place, NS2+'s "Choose your own AV" being in the base game could be a reality, now please let this horse lay in peace.
While choose your AV COULD be in the base game, it's unlikely. The alien vision was changed so that aliens players could appreciate how pretty the game is. With that goal in mind, I doubt we'll ever offer old alien visions back into vanilla. Cory is still our art director, we'd have to talk with him about it. I'll let you guys know though!