"@coolitic this av is useless, how exactly is that fine? I have used it cumulatively for about 1.5 seconds in the last 100h of game play..."
^^^ That is the point though, Alien Vision is *NOT NEEDED* in 99.99% of situations - Hence, *WHY* would we add in something NOT NEEDED that made aliens better ... sorry for the caps but as CD121 pointed out, :-@
This whole change is making less and less sense as times goes on. I didn't realize at first, but they've now allowed people to use any modded vision on any server. So people can make some ridiculous mods that will give an advantage over the people with a standard vision. People are going to make ridiculous mods like this, but worse:
This will eventually turn into something similar to mat hacks.
Why!? Just give us an option in the menu for the old vision and put the consistency check back on. I'm all for modding some things, but this is going to be abused.
THIS JUST IN: Webster's English Dictionary has changed their definition for the idiomatic expression "beating a dead horse" to include a reference to this thread as an example.
THIS JUST IN: Webster's English Dictionary has changed their definition for the idiomatic expression "beating a dead horse" to include a reference to this thread as an example.
Why is it a dead horse? The problem persist, an obnoxious AV was introduced, so the topic is still relevant.
the analogy doesn't fit because ths horse isn't dead. we still have no official reason for an unpopular change. we still have a persistent unpopular change and ift we stop bumping the thread uwe might just start thinking that the problem went away...
that's actually why I think uwe has never addressed our concerns. they hope that people will just eventually learn to live with it and they can just move on without addressing uncomfortable questions like, what was the purpose, did anybody who actually plays the game contribute to the decision? did anybody complain about old alien vision? was this just a vanity exercise because you thought the in game graphics weren't being appreciated enough? did you receive any positive feedback from playtesters?
all their previous changes to existing mechanics seen to have been in response to feedback of some kind.
ranged spore, too little risk for area denial.
spike trails, hard to spot lerks in some situations.
fade changes, fades were pretty dominant.
gorge spit Nerf, blinding effect plus 40 damage too powerful earlygame.
babblers, armor too good in the European scene.
sewlek balance, resource model borked to all hell.
but av changes, people not looking at the game the way they want them to? not appreciating the art assets? vanity.
blanket Nerf to alien agility based melee? the fact that people say that normal vision is just as good as old AV belies this rationale. unless old AV really was just better, in which case blanket Nerf.
I'd hate them for it, but at least I'd respect their rationale.
as it stands, during that rollout they nerfed aliens, buffed marines and completely redid the alien tech tree. so I can't even respect their judgment if it was a blanket Nerf.
it only seems like we're beating a dead horse because uwe is pumping it full of horse tranquilizers in the hopes that our arm will fall off and we'll walk away.
The custom AV's work as long as server admins would get off their arse and rectify the problem. It's a stupid way to solve the problem, but there's more than enough servers you can use which ever AV you want.
PS. i'm using default AV and i have no problems with it. It's on 100% of the time i'm playing alien. Who would've known people are different.
@ots jesus bloody wept read the damn thread. COMPETITIVE GAMES DO NOT ALLOW MODS TO ALIEN VISION. I have said this so many times now and cretins keep coming in here going 'use a mod' or 'it's okay for me.' You are totally missing the point - a point that has been made clearly, concisely and repeatedly.
I'm very glad for you that you can use the alien vision as it stands. Now you need to realise that you are the exception, not the rule and your preferences are not shared by the rest of us. I have advocated throughout this thread that there need to be options available to help satisfy the majority and not force one type of sight/vision on everybody. It sounded as though we might be getting something like that a couple of pages back, so I guess it's a case of waiting for b262...?
Tried the minimal AV that worked for me everywhere I went, and while it works quite nicely, there are very ugly dotted white lines on the boundaries between sections ow walls, it reminds me old Riva128 driver problems.
Let me put it this way: the default (non-alien) vision already provides ridiculous contrast on marines (compared to no outlining), you can perfectly spot them against any background in the game regardless of lighting conditions. That's just an observable fact. In addition to that, my personal experience was that it is basically just as good for that as the old AV, so I have no choice but to "lie" about it. I'm sorry I guess?
I'm very glad for you that you can use the alien vision as it stands. Now you need to realise that you are the exception, not the rule and your preferences are not shared by the rest of us.
So ~10 dudes bumping this thread and 49 signatures in an Internet petition (what the christ?) are now the rule? Eh, whatever. I'm starting to think that the outlining shaders are just not working correctly for some people since I can't fathom why this thread would even exist otherwise.
Let me put it this way: the default (non-alien) vision already provides ridiculous contrast on marines (compared to no outlining), you can perfectly spot them against any background in the game regardless of lighting conditions. That's just an observable fact. In addition to that, my personal experience was that it is basically just as good for that as the old AV, so I have no choice but to "lie" about it. I'm sorry I guess?
It's not THAT bad now for tracking, but saying it's absolutely no different? Come on dude, that's a laugh, having a stark contrast between TWO colours for what was an enemy and what was environment was a huge advantage compared to a flimsy outline.
I'm very glad for you that you can use the alien vision as it stands. Now you need to realise that you are the exception, not the rule and your preferences are not shared by the rest of us.
So ~10 dudes bumping this thread and 49 signatures in an Internet petition (what the christ?) are now the rule? Eh, whatever. I'm starting to think that the outlining shaders are just not working correctly for some people since I can't fathom why this thread would even exist otherwise.
That's a PT petition, so it's not surprising there's not many signatures on it. Also the thread it links has images that @current1y should have linked that look damn sexy.
Default consistency config now ignores shaders/DarkVision.hlsl (allows easier modding of Alien Vision)
Read.The.Effin.Patch.Notes.
Take the discussion to NSL/Serveradmins/WC, UWE just fucking gave us the stupid bandaid fix to the problem you imbesils cry about.
Big suprise it doesnt and I joined 3 servers and they still don't work. I don't understand why you're so upset that people don't like staring at an eye searing orange.
THIS JUST IN: Webster's English Dictionary has changed their definition for the idiomatic expression "beating a dead horse" to include a reference to this thread as an example.
It would be dead if when sewlek said he fixed AV to give us options on Nov 22. Now when the patch has come out and we don't have the options, you wonder why it's still going?
It makes sense that they would just let us use modded AV's, cause really whats the chances they would make one that everyone is happy with? But then again i don't really get why it's so difficult to have multiple options for that ingame. Maybe breaks modding? Regardless, you can use mods now so try current ones out. Or make new one for yourself (which i'm planning to!).
I don't understand why you people are not advocating the server admins to fix the problem you are having. Read before you post.
Because its much easier if UWE just makes it a blanket thing so all av mods are now accessible? Sorry I don't really feel like contacting every server owner of every server I browse and asking them to whitelist the specific av mod I use.
If they're already going to these lengths to satisfy us old AV fans, why not just let us select the shader in the options? Normal alien vision could be the outline, minimal would be full tint, classic would be the old AV and "orange eye cancer" would be the current one. Then a mod could override whichever was selected, if desired.
Still there's no word about why they won't let us use the old matte shader, but insist on the new one with the halo and the plastic look. But yeah I'm beginning to repeat myself again so I'll shut up and wait for the next patch.
You can just remove it from consistency checking all together then, whats the point in be there to "ignore" if it doesn't work. Remove the check, and you have the same thing?
@ots if you had the remotest idea what you're talking about, it would make for an easier conversation.
Allowing modified visions in comp gaming is a no no. It's not going to happen. Public server default consistency checking is not the same thing. Short of someone making an nsl-specific, multi av mod, which would still not resolve the situation adequately, the answer lies in uwe making a vanilla option to use multiple different versions.
Just because you utterly fail to understand why this is needed or wanted does not make any difference to how much it is needed and wanted.
@Roobubba - I agree completely. I thought that with the latest patch, minimal AV will work everywhere, but it does not, and it makes sense that only unmodded NS2 is allowed on competitive servers, because a good AV is a tremendous advantage in melee.
@Roobubba, you sir should be smacked upside head down face first to gutter repeatedly. I've said countless time how AV is fine for me AND it can't ever be fine for everyone. In this very topic, you going your way to be complete douchebag just because you don't understand what you are reading, bravo!
And really, it goes beyond me how narrowminded you can be. I've been competitive in shooters since 2003, and there isn't a game where the best players dumb down the graphics, or any other distracting effects to get best eyesight(or fps). Be it gammapanel(or any other variant) on marines, to remove dark corners or just plainly counter shit monitors. You want to see what you are shooting/biting at. Alien vision has been the same since ns1, the models were highlighted IN THE GAME. ITS A FEATURE. You see marines anywhere, who gives a flying fuck what kind of mod you can do for it, you can already see everything with default alien vision.
Why on earth would you not want to give the same benefit, to everyone, who can't use the current AV due to massive headaches or just better/worser eyesight. Yes it should be in the competitive scene(NSL/AUSNS2/NSWC), this is what you should be advocating for. If this patch isn't proof enough, UWE has either better things to do, or just dont know how to satisfy all the whiners.
UNLESS, removing alienvision from consistency somehow lets you use random hacking programs or other variants, i really dont understand why the comp scene hasnt been advocating just removal of the whole thing from NSL. Or isn't already. Guess it's easier to just sit on your arse and whine?
UNLESS, removing alienvision from consistency somehow lets you use random hacking programs or other variants, i really dont understand why the comp scene hasnt been advocating just removal of the whole thing from NSL. Or isn't already. Guess it's easier to just sit on your arse and whine?
Removing a consistency filter,
even though you can get around them anyway
, opens up a large can of worms. What the NSL is/was considering, was a white list of certain AV mods like Huze's for example.
So ~10 dudes bumping this thread and 49 signatures in an Internet petition (what the christ?) are now the rule?
Eh.. that petition i made was only meant for internal personnel (PTs/devs) eyes, so that number doesn't hold any weight if you are comparing it to public voting.
I never publicly announced it, and i have since closed it after its purpose was fulfilled.
But what it addresses and the points it bring up are definitely a majority agreed on rule for design, yes. (namely, proper contrast being important at melee range)
Start from page 1 of this thread and make your way through it.. you will find the petition's "Facts" that it establishes are echoing the many well thought out points on the matter.
People do vary greatly (even internally - that petition isn't counting nay sayers, for instance) therefore so do their views on the matter... so covering the basics and allowing for options is the best course of action to appease.
Comments
^^^ That is the point though, Alien Vision is *NOT NEEDED* in 99.99% of situations - Hence, *WHY* would we add in something NOT NEEDED that made aliens better ... sorry for the caps but as CD121 pointed out, :-@
This will eventually turn into something similar to mat hacks.
Why!? Just give us an option in the menu for the old vision and put the consistency check back on. I'm all for modding some things, but this is going to be abused.
glue and McDonalds burgers.
Why do people insist on lying.
Why is it a dead horse? The problem persist, an obnoxious AV was introduced, so the topic is still relevant.
that's actually why I think uwe has never addressed our concerns. they hope that people will just eventually learn to live with it and they can just move on without addressing uncomfortable questions like, what was the purpose, did anybody who actually plays the game contribute to the decision? did anybody complain about old alien vision? was this just a vanity exercise because you thought the in game graphics weren't being appreciated enough? did you receive any positive feedback from playtesters?
all their previous changes to existing mechanics seen to have been in response to feedback of some kind.
ranged spore, too little risk for area denial.
spike trails, hard to spot lerks in some situations.
fade changes, fades were pretty dominant.
gorge spit Nerf, blinding effect plus 40 damage too powerful earlygame.
babblers, armor too good in the European scene.
sewlek balance, resource model borked to all hell.
but av changes, people not looking at the game the way they want them to? not appreciating the art assets? vanity.
blanket Nerf to alien agility based melee? the fact that people say that normal vision is just as good as old AV belies this rationale. unless old AV really was just better, in which case blanket Nerf.
I'd hate them for it, but at least I'd respect their rationale.
as it stands, during that rollout they nerfed aliens, buffed marines and completely redid the alien tech tree. so I can't even respect their judgment if it was a blanket Nerf.
it only seems like we're beating a dead horse because uwe is pumping it full of horse tranquilizers in the hopes that our arm will fall off and we'll walk away.
PS. i'm using default AV and i have no problems with it. It's on 100% of the time i'm playing alien. Who would've known people are different.
I'm very glad for you that you can use the alien vision as it stands. Now you need to realise that you are the exception, not the rule and your preferences are not shared by the rest of us. I have advocated throughout this thread that there need to be options available to help satisfy the majority and not force one type of sight/vision on everybody. It sounded as though we might be getting something like that a couple of pages back, so I guess it's a case of waiting for b262...?
Let me put it this way: the default (non-alien) vision already provides ridiculous contrast on marines (compared to no outlining), you can perfectly spot them against any background in the game regardless of lighting conditions. That's just an observable fact. In addition to that, my personal experience was that it is basically just as good for that as the old AV, so I have no choice but to "lie" about it. I'm sorry I guess?
So ~10 dudes bumping this thread and 49 signatures in an Internet petition (what the christ?) are now the rule? Eh, whatever. I'm starting to think that the outlining shaders are just not working correctly for some people since I can't fathom why this thread would even exist otherwise.
It's not THAT bad now for tracking, but saying it's absolutely no different? Come on dude, that's a laugh, having a stark contrast between TWO colours for what was an enemy and what was environment was a huge advantage compared to a flimsy outline.
That's a PT petition, so it's not surprising there's not many signatures on it. Also the thread it links has images that @current1y should have linked that look damn sexy.
I personally don't think alien vision is an advantage, I never used it before it was orange and I don't use it now.
But it makes people happy
Take the discussion to NSL/Serveradmins/WC, UWE just fucking gave us the stupid bandaid fix to the problem you imbesils cry about.
Big suprise it doesnt and I joined 3 servers and they still don't work. I don't understand why you're so upset that people don't like staring at an eye searing orange.
It would be dead if when sewlek said he fixed AV to give us options on Nov 22. Now when the patch has come out and we don't have the options, you wonder why it's still going?
Because its much easier if UWE just makes it a blanket thing so all av mods are now accessible? Sorry I don't really feel like contacting every server owner of every server I browse and asking them to whitelist the specific av mod I use.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2171006/#Comment_2171006
If they're already going to these lengths to satisfy us old AV fans, why not just let us select the shader in the options? Normal alien vision could be the outline, minimal would be full tint, classic would be the old AV and "orange eye cancer" would be the current one. Then a mod could override whichever was selected, if desired.
Still there's no word about why they won't let us use the old matte shader, but insist on the new one with the halo and the plastic look. But yeah I'm beginning to repeat myself again so I'll shut up and wait for the next patch.
Allowing modified visions in comp gaming is a no no. It's not going to happen. Public server default consistency checking is not the same thing. Short of someone making an nsl-specific, multi av mod, which would still not resolve the situation adequately, the answer lies in uwe making a vanilla option to use multiple different versions.
Just because you utterly fail to understand why this is needed or wanted does not make any difference to how much it is needed and wanted.
And really, it goes beyond me how narrowminded you can be. I've been competitive in shooters since 2003, and there isn't a game where the best players dumb down the graphics, or any other distracting effects to get best eyesight(or fps). Be it gammapanel(or any other variant) on marines, to remove dark corners or just plainly counter shit monitors. You want to see what you are shooting/biting at. Alien vision has been the same since ns1, the models were highlighted IN THE GAME. ITS A FEATURE. You see marines anywhere, who gives a flying fuck what kind of mod you can do for it, you can already see everything with default alien vision.
Why on earth would you not want to give the same benefit, to everyone, who can't use the current AV due to massive headaches or just better/worser eyesight. Yes it should be in the competitive scene(NSL/AUSNS2/NSWC), this is what you should be advocating for. If this patch isn't proof enough, UWE has either better things to do, or just dont know how to satisfy all the whiners.
UNLESS, removing alienvision from consistency somehow lets you use random hacking programs or other variants, i really dont understand why the comp scene hasnt been advocating just removal of the whole thing from NSL. Or isn't already. Guess it's easier to just sit on your arse and whine?
Removing a consistency filter,
I never publicly announced it, and i have since closed it after its purpose was fulfilled.
But what it addresses and the points it bring up are definitely a majority agreed on rule for design, yes. (namely, proper contrast being important at melee range)
Start from page 1 of this thread and make your way through it.. you will find the petition's "Facts" that it establishes are echoing the many well thought out points on the matter.
People do vary greatly (even internally - that petition isn't counting nay sayers, for instance) therefore so do their views on the matter... so covering the basics and allowing for options is the best course of action to appease.
And made an Old Alien Vision mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=201163952
I kiss you upon the lips