Having had a fair few games now I for one quite like it. Aliens feels fun, skulk especially once i'd got used to the movement. Unlearning muscle memory is a bastard.
The Fade is growing on me. I absolutely loathed it before on the BT servers but now that they forced it into the game I'm kinda liking it after a few hours. Still, Shadowstep feels worthless outside combat as it doesn't add any momentum anymore.
Skulk is MUCH better. Begone you ugly 25/50 dmg bitecone, now I can actually kill rines!
A couple of other observations as I learn this new patch...
Flamethrower is overpowered
Jetpacks move entirely too fast .
Flamethrower yes! Oh god they hurt now. I think it's a change in the right direction, before 250 they were pretty useless, but it's gone too far. I think GLs also might of been buffed a little too much as well. Doesn't feel like Aliens really have any response to either of them.
Jetpacks, there ok. They aren't that much better than before and they cost a bit more as well.
There's a big difference from catering to those people and catering to those who are happy losing, but want to get a decent game out of it. Don't just discard the fun argument because of a minority of people who need to win every game to enjoy it.
I discount it when it is the only argument presented. It is sophistry at best when people use it as their only argument. If that poster had said "the tutorials are lacking, I can't practice because the teams are too stacked and it is no fun getting repeatedly curb stomped by better players who won't even teams" I probably wouldn't have commented at all.
Besides, I did say "tread lightly" not "STFU l2p n00b!"
I think the lack of accessibility was what he was trying to get at. Which is a function of both the lackluster training and the frequent encounters of much better players.
The Fade is growing on me. I absolutely loathed it before on the BT servers but now that they forced it into the game I'm kinda liking it after a few hours. Still, Shadowstep feels worthless outside combat as it doesn't add any momentum anymore.
Skulk is MUCH better. Begone you ugly 25/50 dmg bitecone, now I can actually kill rines!
I can relate.
I felt the exact same way.. hated it at first.. but as i used it more and more i came to like it.
I found that blink is primarily meant for travel (thats why its predictable and available from the get go) and Shadowstep is purely meant for dodging in combat, to an effective degree above what vanilla offered. Dont be afraid to use vertical movement.. marines have a hard time adjusting to the Z axis during chaotic moments :-P
And yes.. changes like these should have been mentioned in the changelog next to each item so the user doesn't have to play for X amount of time to discover it.
But on the other hand it does cut down on the "just read the changelog and omg i hate it" posts..
I think a one time, brief 15-20 sec forced video for all users, could adequately explain the new walljumping and fade movement.
Btw: The grenade launcher changes were introduced in previous patches, not this one. (extended capacity, clientside predicted and therefore no whip whacking)
I actually had to create an account and sign up to these forums - something I probably would have never done if it wasn't for this horrible build. Whoever designed this needs a frontal lobotomy. The balance is horrific, the games last forever, the upgrade tree on the aliens is insane, and I could go on. I saw 4 marines shoot a hive an unloaded all 5 clips in it. It didn't drop past 95 with a single gorge healing it along with a single crag. What the heck is with that???? That's over 1000 rounds and the hive didn't even blink. The exos are made of paper now. Level 3 armor is 415 and death is so quick. Arcs are so slow I must as well not even bother.
But seriously, the alien upgrade tree is insane.
It takes the aliens exactly 5 seconds to take down power and then a base. The marines can't even come close to that.
Just horrible. Switch it back. And then never ever design a game again. Get into embalming or something where you can't do any more damage.
I really never comment on forums but I have to for NS2. This modification has destroyed the game. In combat mode tier 2 bile bomb for gorges is broke, it dissappears if you also choose camo and camo doesn't work for aliens. Exo's, Fades, and Onos are now worthless. This update has taken an awesome game and turned it into a waste of time. Good thing I have other games.
Some things need a tweak here and there but overall I like how this build is forcing team work. I've been playing team oriented games for years and this feels like a step in the right direction. There will be lots of new players coming to fill the ranks of those who develop a sour taste for this title.
I know 3 people who pretty much didn't care for the game until this build. After I convinced them to play some more it is growing on them.
In combat mode tier 2 bile bomb for gorges is broke, it dissappears if you also choose camo and camo doesn't work for aliens. Exo's, Fades, and Onos are now worthless. This update has taken an awesome game and turned it into a waste of time. Good thing I have other games.
If you mean combat the mod:
Combat is not made or maintained by UWE, it is a mod the server owner optionally runs.
Whatever mods and server owners do is their business, and is not part of this patch.
If you mean in the vanilla game:
Gorge BB was Tier 2 in the last patch as well. But in any case, it's effectiveness has been reduced recently.
I can see a problem with too many gorges though, considering their cheap cost.
As for the feedback regarding Onos and Exo health - @sewlek or anyone else can correct me if i'm wrong, but the previous values created OP scenarios where a team would give up when the Dual exo train began, not to mention how many considered the high health values to be skill-less, requiring very little from the player. Now you have to be more coordinated with your team to survive, comebacks are more frequent, and getting a T3 lifeform / technology does not automatically mean the round is over.
To compensate, Exos actually do more damage now than previously, when Weapons 3 are researched.
They also are a magnitude faster - oh and can use their thrusters horizontally for dodging! (Shift key in any direction)
This makes for a faster, more tense, human-like upgrade that scales with the rest of the game - instead of the previous "dull, slow, tanky, disconnected from the rest of the game" approach.
I am so very proud of Unknown Worlds at this moment. They've managed to accomplish something that you normally only find in AAA games like Starcraft and WoW. Namely: getting hordes of players crawling out of the woodwork to reflexively complain about something being changed, as if the sky were falling, nay, as if the very earth were cracking open to swallow them whole.
[sniff] UWE, you're all grown up now. You can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the big boys.
I think the biggest issue here, is not the individual changes, but rather the implementation of the build. Georgeous had the feeling of adding to the game, b250 has the feeling of just altering it.
It was too much, too fast. Yes, a new build has been announced, but who has the time to read all that, after 249 builds? I just figured it would be good.
Also, on taking feedback from the community. It seems like most of the feedback is taken from the ones that play the bt-mod, who are already favorable towards the changes. Naturally the people who did not like the mod has not been as involved.
Note that I have been playing b250 for many hours, and I do like some of the changes, like the spread on the lmg. It should be lmg for medium and close distance and pistol for sniping. Perhaps I am just being nostalgic though.
I think it will be very valuable for dev's to reflect upon the fact that everyone calls b249 (and I'm assuming the b249-revert-mod as well) for "vanilla," and b250 is still referred to as a balance test.
I saw 4 marines shoot a hive an unloaded all 5 clips in it. It didn't drop past 95 with a single gorge healing it along with a single crag. What the heck is with that???? That's over 1000 rounds and the hive didn't even blink.
That would have been the same in build 249. Afaik, neither lmg damage was nerfed nor was healspray, crag or hive hp buffed.
Also: don't shoot the hive, shoot the crag and gorge first *roll eyes*.
"Whoever designed this needs a frontal lobotomy.",
"...the games last forever...",
"...It takes the aliens exactly 5 seconds to take down power and then a base."
After having played for more than 500 hrs, I don't want to learn a new gameplay. It was good like it was. I was having fun.
What disturbs me the most is not the tech tree changes but the new feeling when moving.
I want to play the version of this game like it was before. I don't like this one and I will not play it anymore.
I've never played BT -mod so all these changes are new to me. And I like it! I feel the new movement mechanics are better than before, though not intuitive. After practising 30 mins alone I learned to move well enough to join the fight.
Skulks feel way more powerful now. Fades are fun to play, too. As a fade, I found myself killing marines more than before. Maybe I just had a good day.
New evolve -prices cut waiting time for aliens as long as you're extra careful until you get your upgrades, too.
Aura felt like overpowered wallhack and removed some of the tension (in a bad way) since you knew exactly how many marines was ahead and even in what shape they were. Way too strong and boring upgrade.
From marine side, always researchable jetpacks and 1-gun-exos are my favorites. Welding, on the other hand, feels more forced now. I would like to actually do something else than weld those clumsy buffoons a.k.a. teammates all the time. And this comes from a player who liked to often weld people, structures and gorges before this build. Make armories give armor fast and welders slow!
Exos and arcs are more fragile now, but that doesn't annoy at all unlike constant welding of people...
All in all, this build feels like an upgrade from before
Edit: Putting aside the build changes, the sheer amount of these changes is a bit overwhelming. It would have been easier to digest it all, if they would have come in 2 or 3 separate patches. Too much is too much, even if it's cake.
I do pity the poor new players, they're new and don't understand a lot, then there's the vets who also are getting used to it and can't answer questions for the poor new buggers.
I do pity the poor new players, they're new and don't understand a lot, then there's the vets who also are getting used to it and can't answer questions for the poor new buggers.
I see this as more of a plus because the number of players who know exactly how to play best in order to totally destroy the other team is much lower. Sure, the more experienced players will learn faster than the new ones but there's much more of a level playing field in terms of game knowledge to begin with.
Also, on taking feedback from the community. It seems like most of the feedback is taken from the ones that play the bt-mod, who are already favorable towards the changes. Naturally the people who did not like the mod has not been as involved.
Actually there were many players like myself who despised the BT mod in early development and put a lot of time and effort into giving feedback to make it where it is today and now I'm happy.
It has always been possible to do this from players like yourself with the btmod servers and perhaps if people took the opportunity to go in and give feedback (There was an article from UWE telling people how to do this) then they might perhaps be happy as well.
TL;DR I didn't like the BTmod but I played it to give feedback to the changes.
It was foolish for other people who didn't like it to not give feedback.
Don't like the new fade movement and the flame thrower is crazily powerful. I preferred the BT mod.
The flamethrower was in the BT mod for a while in its current state, the problem really came when advanced weaponry was removed as a separate tech letting you rush GL and flamer much faster and more cheaply than before. Current BT mod has that tech requirement back in place and I wouldn't be surprised if it was patched in quickly.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Being one of the advocates for no separate FT / GL research, I think I'm beginning to see why it's a better idea to have it there. In my defense, that was when flamethrowers were next to useless and the GL reload rate was twice as long. Getting access at a few minutes to weapons that don't scale with weapon upgrades has resulted in a few ruined public games I've joined.
I just discoverd that Aliens now have a supplylimit on "usefull"/"active" structures, is this supposed to be the new counter to GLs? What can you destroy if there is not much to destory?^^ Seriously, this was unnecessary, the crags, the shifts and the whips were nerfed already in this patch and the abbility to move is nice but no real help if you have a hughe frontline...
Comments
Skulk is MUCH better. Begone you ugly 25/50 dmg bitecone, now I can actually kill rines!
Flamethrower yes! Oh god they hurt now. I think it's a change in the right direction, before 250 they were pretty useless, but it's gone too far. I think GLs also might of been buffed a little too much as well. Doesn't feel like Aliens really have any response to either of them.
Jetpacks, there ok. They aren't that much better than before and they cost a bit more as well.
I think the lack of accessibility was what he was trying to get at. Which is a function of both the lackluster training and the frequent encounters of much better players.
I felt the exact same way.. hated it at first.. but as i used it more and more i came to like it.
I found that blink is primarily meant for travel (thats why its predictable and available from the get go) and Shadowstep is purely meant for dodging in combat, to an effective degree above what vanilla offered. Dont be afraid to use vertical movement.. marines have a hard time adjusting to the Z axis during chaotic moments :-P
And yes.. changes like these should have been mentioned in the changelog next to each item so the user doesn't have to play for X amount of time to discover it.
But on the other hand it does cut down on the "just read the changelog and omg i hate it" posts..
I think a one time, brief 15-20 sec forced video for all users, could adequately explain the new walljumping and fade movement.
Btw: The grenade launcher changes were introduced in previous patches, not this one. (extended capacity, clientside predicted and therefore no whip whacking)
I saw this post, and the faith in humanity got restored in me.
The post is so constructive, it tells everything with good explanations. I don't get how someone could not take it seriously!
Overall a 5/5 post.
But seriously, the alien upgrade tree is insane.
It takes the aliens exactly 5 seconds to take down power and then a base. The marines can't even come close to that.
Just horrible. Switch it back. And then never ever design a game again. Get into embalming or something where you can't do any more damage.
I know 3 people who pretty much didn't care for the game until this build. After I convinced them to play some more it is growing on them.
Combat is not made or maintained by UWE, it is a mod the server owner optionally runs.
Whatever mods and server owners do is their business, and is not part of this patch.
If you mean in the vanilla game:
Gorge BB was Tier 2 in the last patch as well. But in any case, it's effectiveness has been reduced recently.
I can see a problem with too many gorges though, considering their cheap cost.
As for the feedback regarding Onos and Exo health - @sewlek or anyone else can correct me if i'm wrong, but the previous values created OP scenarios where a team would give up when the Dual exo train began, not to mention how many considered the high health values to be skill-less, requiring very little from the player. Now you have to be more coordinated with your team to survive, comebacks are more frequent, and getting a T3 lifeform / technology does not automatically mean the round is over.
To compensate, Exos actually do more damage now than previously, when Weapons 3 are researched.
They also are a magnitude faster - oh and can use their thrusters horizontally for dodging! (Shift key in any direction)
This makes for a faster, more tense, human-like upgrade that scales with the rest of the game - instead of the previous "dull, slow, tanky, disconnected from the rest of the game" approach.
[sniff] UWE, you're all grown up now. You can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the big boys.
I know they are visible with crag or shift, but how about shade?
They are visible regardless of hive type.
They are cloaked by shades themselves though.
It was too much, too fast. Yes, a new build has been announced, but who has the time to read all that, after 249 builds? I just figured it would be good.
Also, on taking feedback from the community. It seems like most of the feedback is taken from the ones that play the bt-mod, who are already favorable towards the changes. Naturally the people who did not like the mod has not been as involved.
Note that I have been playing b250 for many hours, and I do like some of the changes, like the spread on the lmg. It should be lmg for medium and close distance and pistol for sniping. Perhaps I am just being nostalgic though.
I think it will be very valuable for dev's to reflect upon the fact that everyone calls b249 (and I'm assuming the b249-revert-mod as well) for "vanilla," and b250 is still referred to as a balance test.
That would have been the same in build 249. Afaik, neither lmg damage was nerfed nor was healspray, crag or hive hp buffed.
Also: don't shoot the hive, shoot the crag and gorge first *roll eyes*.
Frontal lobotomy much?
What disturbs me the most is not the tech tree changes but the new feeling when moving.
I want to play the version of this game like it was before. I don't like this one and I will not play it anymore.
Agreed, because the first part of this post seems like a good idea.
Skulks feel way more powerful now. Fades are fun to play, too. As a fade, I found myself killing marines more than before. Maybe I just had a good day.
New evolve -prices cut waiting time for aliens as long as you're extra careful until you get your upgrades, too.
Aura felt like overpowered wallhack and removed some of the tension (in a bad way) since you knew exactly how many marines was ahead and even in what shape they were. Way too strong and boring upgrade.
From marine side, always researchable jetpacks and 1-gun-exos are my favorites. Welding, on the other hand, feels more forced now. I would like to actually do something else than weld those clumsy buffoons a.k.a. teammates all the time. And this comes from a player who liked to often weld people, structures and gorges before this build. Make armories give armor fast and welders slow!
Exos and arcs are more fragile now, but that doesn't annoy at all unlike constant welding of people...
All in all, this build feels like an upgrade from before
Edit: Putting aside the build changes, the sheer amount of these changes is a bit overwhelming. It would have been easier to digest it all, if they would have come in 2 or 3 separate patches. Too much is too much, even if it's cake.
I see this as more of a plus because the number of players who know exactly how to play best in order to totally destroy the other team is much lower. Sure, the more experienced players will learn faster than the new ones but there's much more of a level playing field in terms of game knowledge to begin with.
Not well enough, their cloak looks like a lifeforms phantom cloak so its kinda easy to pick them out of a shaded room.
Actually there were many players like myself who despised the BT mod in early development and put a lot of time and effort into giving feedback to make it where it is today and now I'm happy.
It has always been possible to do this from players like yourself with the btmod servers and perhaps if people took the opportunity to go in and give feedback (There was an article from UWE telling people how to do this) then they might perhaps be happy as well.
TL;DR I didn't like the BTmod but I played it to give feedback to the changes.
It was foolish for other people who didn't like it to not give feedback.
The flamethrower was in the BT mod for a while in its current state, the problem really came when advanced weaponry was removed as a separate tech letting you rush GL and flamer much faster and more cheaply than before. Current BT mod has that tech requirement back in place and I wouldn't be surprised if it was patched in quickly.