Is it possible to get keys for deluxe edition upgrades if we already have the base game on Steam? I wouldn't mind getting the deluxe armor too after I missed the free update on launch day just by a few hours, but the price for just the upgrade was always a bit too high in my eyes to warrant just that and some additional files in folders.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Watching the stream / record later I did see archea playing a lot better then nexil.. But then I saw all the comments about jetlag and I was like... 'hey that could very well be'.
Other competitive players have already stated inhere that they saw Nexil play better in other matches.
All in all I liked the matches.. I was going 'wuuuuut.. turrets?' when I saw them though. But I do not play competitive, so who am I to argue with a team which made it that far. (Would like to know the reason for them to keep using turrets, I at first asumed it was that point only).
Yes the fillers were... odd. But teams need (mental) breaks & strategize.. build motivation.
You also want to fillin the time for everyone who made the flight to the event I guess.
All in all it was a good final and id say.. well played both teams.
All in all I liked the matches.. I was going 'wuuuuut.. turrets?' when I saw them though. But I do not play competitive, so who am I to argue with a team which made it that far. (Would like to know the reason for them to keep using turrets, I at first asumed it was that point only).
They like to use turrets to prevent a feed gate. The aliens can't easily focus on the gate with them shooting at them, giving the marines time to get through the gate to defend. You can see several fades get very low trying to take the gate down in hub, and they had to leave when marines come through instead of swiping them down.
I'm amazed at these losers who are disagreeing with an actual Saunamen player posting about on the semi final match. Because you guys know better than he does who should have won what.
Hi, non-self proclaimed loser here. I'm sorry I won't take the word of a competitive player as fact, I guess I'm just stubborn like that. But please try to look at it from my point of view:
-Given that the last 6 matches of the best of 7 were marine wins, who would you bet on winning?
-If the coin toss does not matter, then I assume you would not mind going aliens, even though marines were winning a signficant amount of the games that day.
-If the coin toss DOES matter, then how significant is it? If I said the odds were say, 7-3 in favor of Marines, would you agree that the coin toss won them the game at that point? At what point do YOU consider the game won by coin toss? 9-1 odds? 10-0 odds?
You're right, I am not a competitive player, but I am asking Gorgeous and Whii, well, so explain it to us then.
My response was a bit harsh, I was forcefully responding to a few disagrees to whiii's statement. I'll try to lay out some background information
First, the patch dropped right before the tournament that gutted alien movement. Adequate time was not given for teams to adjust to it and that is very unfortunate. Most competitive players, including Nexzil members, were pissed that the patch was pushed like that. It wasn't all UWE's fault, though. The patch had been planned for months and the ENSL admins knew that. The ENSL admins held the custom cup the week before, which meant that we were going to get the patch right before the actual tournament.
Second, Nexzil adapted their alien gameplay much quicker than the european teams did and it showed in the tournament. Overall win ratios from the group stages to the semifinals lead to the following game scores (IE a "victory" in the group stage counts as 2 wins -- marine and alien)
Nexzil: 11-1 groups, 4-3 semifinals, 15-4 (79%) end result before finals
Arc: 10-2 groups, 4-0 semifinals, 14-2 (87.5%) end result before finals
Saunamen: 7-5 groups, 3-4 semifinals, 10-9 (52.6%) end result
Godar: 8-4 groups, 0-4 semifinals, 8-8 (50%) end result
A lot of things went on behind the scene that people don't appreciate. Mercury (Hg) was one of the strongest teams in the tournament, but fell flat due to some unfortunate circumstances. <G> also had the potential to knock Arc out in the semis, but they performed below their ability in the semis.
Nexzil's play on the tournament day was either the best or the second best (to Arc) in the tournament. In regards to the coinflip, I've been campaigning against the coinflip for months now. It has been moderately effective as I (and many others) have been pushing round robin // group stages instead of elimination brackets (aka coinflips). In this latest tournament, we has coinflip-drama-free RR events up until the semifinals and finals which they needed an elimination for. I think it played out as well as possible from a logistics perspective. I also think that the two teams who played the best on that day wound up flying to Cologne.
Just wanted to clarify... the downtime wasn't because of the players, we were sitting at our computers for 20 minutes ready to play. Both teams never requested more than a 5 minute break during the entire event, everything else was production filler. Also yes we were terrible, and we kept pumping ourselves up because we knew how much better we could be playing and how if we played like we usually do we'd definitely be able to put up a good fight. Personally I was on 50ish hours of no sleep and I played like shit because of it. I slept until 5pm today.
Edit: confirming the host was a douche. The producer asked me to be in an interview and the host kept physically pushing me away from him while the producer kept telling me to stand next to him to get interviewed.
They definitely fucked up by not having more player and Charlie interviews. The stream was going crazy. The 12 of us were twiddling our thumbs (or in my case, trying to take a nap) for 20 minutes at a time.
Great positive experience though. Everyone was fun to meet and Charlie is a cool dude
geez guys its not like saunamen was a thousand time better than nxzl they were both extremely good, and ya in this game when both teams are very close in skills things get decided by coin flips.
Let's not forget Godar lost to Nexzl on a coinflip. At the time of the qualifiers marines were winning like 95% of their matches in competitive. (And for some stupid reason Nexzl got both the map AND the marine pick in their last game) I'm absolutely convinced they would've done better than Nexzl vs ARC (They're on 2 - 2 vs ARC) and UWE wouldn't have had to fly in Americans.
No, that's not right at all. Nexzil beat Sauna 5-4 to get to the final, while Archaea beat Godar 4-0 in the other semi-final. Judging by the results from recent practice matches, Godar and Nexzil are on the same level, with a fairly even distribution of wins for both teams. I wouldn't place much importance on the 2-2 game between Godar and arc a couple of weeks ago. We didn't spend a minute preparing for that (mostly meaningless) match. All our attention has gone into preparing for this event and it showed.
That said, I just finished watching the VODs of the games and they were very disappointing. You guys didn't see Nexzil. I have no idea what that was. Just mistake after mistake after mistake. I don't know if it was some combination of 10-15h flying/traveling the day before, nervousness, or what. It reminded me of watching Marine King Prime dominate to the finals and then get 4-0'd by MVP in the 2011 January GSL.
Most games are won by forcing the other team to make mistakes. It's a shame about the jetlag, though, I know some of your players were really struggling with sleep deprivation.
On our side of things, I had big hardware problems and couldn't get my equipment to work until the last 30 minutes before the match started. I ended up having to play with a different mouse than I'm used to, but I was fortunately able to somewhat adjust to it during the second round.
Personally I was on 50ish hours of no sleep and I played like shit because of it. I slept until 5pm today.
Yeah, I think only Bitey didn't look sleep deprived on the Nexzil side. You could really tell because your first match was fantastic, but the following four went downhill fast. Its a solid sign of being tired/exhausted.
let's do a coinflip, if i win - you give me $1500 (if i lose, you get nothing).
farknut, you want a piece of this action too?
At the risk of sounding stupid, I'd like to say I have no idea what you're trying to say.
I assume you mean that $1500 refers to the second place prize. I assume that since you can win $1500 in one scenario, that you are probably hypothetically Nxzl.
Am I suppose to be the opposing team? If so, then if you lose, then I would get second place and win the $1500
Am I suppose to be UWE? If you win, I give you $1500, but if you lose, I still pay $1500 to the opposing team. Which is good either way, since I'm the tournament organizer.
I'm sorry you were offended by my statement, but I'm not quite understanding your statement.
okay, giving you the benefit of the doubt and accepting that my message was too cryptic; opposed to lack of initiative or effort on your part.
you don't get $1500 for a free 50/50 coinflip. once you understand this precept, it's clear that nexzil were deservedly in the final. not just for the victory over saunamen, but every other victory in the tournament as well.
First, the patch dropped right before the tournament that gutted alien movement. Adequate time was not given for teams to adjust to it and that is very unfortunate. Most competitive players, including Nexzil members, were pissed that the patch was pushed like that. It wasn't all UWE's fault, though. The patch had been planned for months and the ENSL admins knew that. The ENSL admins held the custom cup the week before, which meant that we were going to get the patch right before the actual tournament.
Don't mistake this as pushing blames around since not all ENSL did was gold (we clearly do mistakes and learn from them), but I want to clarify something before rumours about wrong facts go wild.
The patch was scheduled weeks before this event and was postponed after the cup was already organized together with UWE. So we didn't know either that the patch would come later and the new release announcement did hit us at a time where we couldn't change anything. Postponing the cup to another weekend was out of question since UWE needed the pretime to plan this event (book flights, hotels, do logos with the finalists etc).
Well I thought the first round was edge-of -the-seat, gripping stuff. Nexzil worked so hard, and were undone by the outstanding coordination that Archaea have (which they clearly have worked on together for a very long time!), to pull off the base rush to end that round. I really thought they were going to take that round.
I think Archaea were probably spurred on by how amazingly well Nexzil came out of the blocks - they raised their game a notch again with that supreme coordination again, and you could really tell the tiredness setting in to Nexzil after round 2, I think.
I don't think anyone here can take anything away from either of those teams: it was a brutal first game that really showed just how amazing ALL of the players we saw play are.
What struck me most was how well, in every single engagement as aliens, Arc are able to swap and change in and out of combat effectively to share out the damage dealt, while focussing marines down as a unit. It's really mesmerising to watch, actually. Most of us pubbers go in for a kill, and - at least as a skulk - rarely take one bite and disengage, or ensure that the battle is happening in the best possible place for the skulks. At the top level, Nexzil weren't walking into stupid encounters (like I do on a frequent basis!), but they were outclassed when it came to the pack-encounter and the exquisite timing of multiple players engaging a group of attacking marines.
When it's asked 'what will it take to beat Archaea?' I think the answer lies in a team that can gel as a unit as well as archaea, with the FPS skills to match (no mean feat), and a whole lot of practice. And that takes time, and in the mean time, Arc are clearly going to be working on improving still further.
Now THAT is a terrifying prospect!
GGs to both teams, and props especially to Nexzil for that first game, which as a spectacle I found absolutely incredible to watch.
Tough break for nexzil spawning at shipping twice on tram and then spawning fabrication I believe twice on descent. No excuses, but it does make it a bit easier to go down 4-0. No one seems to be mentioning this. I always cringe when I get those spawns.
Edit - NVM (I edited the part in my original post on the second page if you're curious). Anyway, yeah since the caster compared the Muta to the Lerk (since it seemed he did mistake the names?), then if it was just that, my post about it is moot. Though still, it was a good excuse to post videos of some fun StarCraft play (my favorite is the dancing Wraiths and the Drone doing the 360) >.>.
Edit - NVM (I edited the part in my original post on the second page if you're curious). Anyway, yeah since the caster compared the Muta to the Lerk (since it seemed he did mistake the names?), then if it was just that, my post about it is moot. Though still, it was a good excuse to post videos of some fun StarCraft play (my favorite is the dancing Wraiths and the Drone doing the 360) >.>.
No no, he did compare the the Fade to the Mutalisk. So your points stands.
Just wanted to clarify... the downtime wasn't because of the players, we were sitting at our computers for 20 minutes ready to play. Both teams never requested more than a 5 minute break during the entire event, everything else was production filler. Also yes we were terrible, and we kept pumping ourselves up because we knew how much better we could be playing and how if we played like we usually do we'd definitely be able to put up a good fight. Personally I was on 50ish hours of no sleep and I played like shit because of it. I slept until 5pm today.
That sucks Garfu. Hopefully next time UWE will be able to afford an extra day in the hotel for some R&R before the event begins, assuming it's not too far out of their budget. Players really need to be at the top of their game for matches like these.
Why was arc allowed subs? I assume a travel restriction was on nexzil as who wants to pay for 9-10 members flying for a 6v6 so I would have thought there would be a rule against arc subbing people in given they were already favoured to win and had some home ground advantage in terms of travel.
I'm amazed at these losers who are disagreeing with an actual Saunamen player posting about on the semi final match. Because you guys know better than he does who should have won what.
Hi, non-self proclaimed loser here. I'm sorry I won't take the word of a competitive player as fact, I guess I'm just stubborn like that. But please try to look at it from my point of view:
-Given that the last 6 matches of the best of 7 were marine wins, who would you bet on winning?
-If the coin toss does not matter, then I assume you would not mind going aliens, even though marines were winning a signficant amount of the games that day.
-If the coin toss DOES matter, then how significant is it? If I said the odds were say, 7-3 in favor of Marines, would you agree that the coin toss won them the game at that point? At what point do YOU consider the game won by coin toss? 9-1 odds? 10-0 odds?
You're right, I am not a competitive player, but I am asking Gorgeous and Whii, well, so explain it to us then.
Don't get me wrong - I love watching Nexzil and I watch most of Virsoul's streams, but @godrifle no one is going to be reasonable here. The Saunamen guy was just being polite and I don't even know what Gorgeous' deal is. Either way, with Sauna winning 100% and Nexzil 100% of their marine rounds, we all know the most probable outcome had it been the other way around is a Saunamen 4-3 victory. But when you're dealing with people who just want to pat each others' backs and "be nice" no amount of reason will do for you.
Actually a quick suggestion: How about having the event on a Sunday? That way Americans can adjust their sleeping pattern a few days in advance to fit with a European schedule.
I don't know if that would work but it's a consideration...
Why was arc allowed subs? I assume a travel restriction was on nexzil as who wants to pay for 9-10 members flying for a 6v6 so I would have thought there would be a rule against arc subbing people in given they were already favoured to win and had some home ground advantage in terms of travel.
Because it isn't an advantage for Archaea. Even playing out a full best of 9 wouldn't actually be particularly tiring, when it's the only games you play that day. We swap players out to make sure everyone on the team gets to play and paid out of our own pockets to get everyone to the event. If we wanted to maximize our efficacy, we would play the same six every round instead of subbing in cold players.
Why was arc allowed subs? I assume a travel restriction was on nexzil as who wants to pay for 9-10 members flying for a 6v6 so I would have thought there would be a rule against arc subbing people in given they were already favoured to win and had some home ground advantage in terms of travel.
Because it isn't an advantage for Archaea. Even playing out a full best of 9 wouldn't actually be particularly tiring, when it's the only games you play that day. We swap players out to make sure everyone on the team gets to play and paid out of our own pockets to get everyone to the event. If we wanted to maximize our efficacy, we would play the same six every round instead of subbing in cold players.
I agree, but the fact that you had the choice of playing with the same six players or switching in substitutes was a choice that Nexzil didn't have.
Nexzil could have had that same choice if like Archaea, they'd paid out of their own pocket to bring their other players to Cologne. Unfortunately, the costs were higher for Nexzil than for Archaea, but that's life. It shouldn't mean Archaea arn't allowed substitutions because Nexzil chose not to bring theirs.
Name me a single other FPS tournament that allows mid game subs that anyone takes seriously...it doesn't happen for obvious reasons, you're not subbing 'cold' people you're subbing in fresh people. The timings of subs would only leverage the amount of potential abuse in any game, I'm not saying Archaea has broke any rules or anything and I think it's great as an organisation you guys all got to go down there and play (And as a spec to see Treff, Kor and Eagle getting out there making big plays) but it seems like one team got the real short end of the stick here and it's the first I've ever heard of subs being allowed in an offline FPS competition.
Why was arc allowed subs? I assume a travel restriction was on nexzil as who wants to pay for 9-10 members flying for a 6v6 so I would have thought there would be a rule against arc subbing people in given they were already favoured to win and had some home ground advantage in terms of travel.
Because it isn't an advantage for Archaea. Even playing out a full best of 9 wouldn't actually be particularly tiring, when it's the only games you play that day. We swap players out to make sure everyone on the team gets to play and paid out of our own pockets to get everyone to the event. If we wanted to maximize our efficacy, we would play the same six every round instead of subbing in cold players.
I agree, but the fact that you had the choice of playing with the same six players or switching in substitutes was a choice that Nexzil didn't have.
that's ridiculous though.
if they needed a sub so badly they could have asked some european-based players to merc for them. this is what happens in almost every lan event ever.
Comments
I made this:
http://i.imgur.com/itrPh8T.jpg
Is it possible to get keys for deluxe edition upgrades if we already have the base game on Steam? I wouldn't mind getting the deluxe armor too after I missed the free update on launch day just by a few hours, but the price for just the upgrade was always a bit too high in my eyes to warrant just that and some additional files in folders.
Here's my submission...
Other competitive players have already stated inhere that they saw Nexil play better in other matches.
All in all I liked the matches.. I was going 'wuuuuut.. turrets?' when I saw them though. But I do not play competitive, so who am I to argue with a team which made it that far. (Would like to know the reason for them to keep using turrets, I at first asumed it was that point only).
Yes the fillers were... odd. But teams need (mental) breaks & strategize.. build motivation.
You also want to fillin the time for everyone who made the flight to the event I guess.
All in all it was a good final and id say.. well played both teams.
They like to use turrets to prevent a feed gate. The aliens can't easily focus on the gate with them shooting at them, giving the marines time to get through the gate to defend. You can see several fades get very low trying to take the gate down in hub, and they had to leave when marines come through instead of swiping them down.
My response was a bit harsh, I was forcefully responding to a few disagrees to whiii's statement. I'll try to lay out some background information
First, the patch dropped right before the tournament that gutted alien movement. Adequate time was not given for teams to adjust to it and that is very unfortunate. Most competitive players, including Nexzil members, were pissed that the patch was pushed like that. It wasn't all UWE's fault, though. The patch had been planned for months and the ENSL admins knew that. The ENSL admins held the custom cup the week before, which meant that we were going to get the patch right before the actual tournament.
Second, Nexzil adapted their alien gameplay much quicker than the european teams did and it showed in the tournament. Overall win ratios from the group stages to the semifinals lead to the following game scores (IE a "victory" in the group stage counts as 2 wins -- marine and alien)
Nexzil: 11-1 groups, 4-3 semifinals, 15-4 (79%) end result before finals
Arc: 10-2 groups, 4-0 semifinals, 14-2 (87.5%) end result before finals
Saunamen: 7-5 groups, 3-4 semifinals, 10-9 (52.6%) end result
Godar: 8-4 groups, 0-4 semifinals, 8-8 (50%) end result
A lot of things went on behind the scene that people don't appreciate. Mercury (Hg) was one of the strongest teams in the tournament, but fell flat due to some unfortunate circumstances. <G> also had the potential to knock Arc out in the semis, but they performed below their ability in the semis.
Nexzil's play on the tournament day was either the best or the second best (to Arc) in the tournament. In regards to the coinflip, I've been campaigning against the coinflip for months now. It has been moderately effective as I (and many others) have been pushing round robin // group stages instead of elimination brackets (aka coinflips). In this latest tournament, we has coinflip-drama-free RR events up until the semifinals and finals which they needed an elimination for. I think it played out as well as possible from a logistics perspective. I also think that the two teams who played the best on that day wound up flying to Cologne.
Edit: confirming the host was a douche. The producer asked me to be in an interview and the host kept physically pushing me away from him while the producer kept telling me to stand next to him to get interviewed.
They definitely fucked up by not having more player and Charlie interviews. The stream was going crazy. The 12 of us were twiddling our thumbs (or in my case, trying to take a nap) for 20 minutes at a time.
Great positive experience though. Everyone was fun to meet and Charlie is a cool dude
this link leads to unwelcome webcam site. bad form.
WTF? why?
Most games are won by forcing the other team to make mistakes. It's a shame about the jetlag, though, I know some of your players were really struggling with sleep deprivation.
On our side of things, I had big hardware problems and couldn't get my equipment to work until the last 30 minutes before the match started. I ended up having to play with a different mouse than I'm used to, but I was fortunately able to somewhat adjust to it during the second round.
okay, giving you the benefit of the doubt and accepting that my message was too cryptic; opposed to lack of initiative or effort on your part.
you don't get $1500 for a free 50/50 coinflip. once you understand this precept, it's clear that nexzil were deservedly in the final. not just for the victory over saunamen, but every other victory in the tournament as well.
The patch was scheduled weeks before this event and was postponed after the cup was already organized together with UWE. So we didn't know either that the patch would come later and the new release announcement did hit us at a time where we couldn't change anything. Postponing the cup to another weekend was out of question since UWE needed the pretime to plan this event (book flights, hotels, do logos with the finalists etc).
I think Archaea were probably spurred on by how amazingly well Nexzil came out of the blocks - they raised their game a notch again with that supreme coordination again, and you could really tell the tiredness setting in to Nexzil after round 2, I think.
I don't think anyone here can take anything away from either of those teams: it was a brutal first game that really showed just how amazing ALL of the players we saw play are.
What struck me most was how well, in every single engagement as aliens, Arc are able to swap and change in and out of combat effectively to share out the damage dealt, while focussing marines down as a unit. It's really mesmerising to watch, actually. Most of us pubbers go in for a kill, and - at least as a skulk - rarely take one bite and disengage, or ensure that the battle is happening in the best possible place for the skulks. At the top level, Nexzil weren't walking into stupid encounters (like I do on a frequent basis!), but they were outclassed when it came to the pack-encounter and the exquisite timing of multiple players engaging a group of attacking marines.
When it's asked 'what will it take to beat Archaea?' I think the answer lies in a team that can gel as a unit as well as archaea, with the FPS skills to match (no mean feat), and a whole lot of practice. And that takes time, and in the mean time, Arc are clearly going to be working on improving still further.
Now THAT is a terrifying prospect!
GGs to both teams, and props especially to Nexzil for that first game, which as a spectacle I found absolutely incredible to watch.
No no, he did compare the the Fade to the Mutalisk. So your points stands.
That sucks Garfu. Hopefully next time UWE will be able to afford an extra day in the hotel for some R&R before the event begins, assuming it's not too far out of their budget. Players really need to be at the top of their game for matches like these.
Don't get me wrong - I love watching Nexzil and I watch most of Virsoul's streams, but @godrifle no one is going to be reasonable here. The Saunamen guy was just being polite and I don't even know what Gorgeous' deal is. Either way, with Sauna winning 100% and Nexzil 100% of their marine rounds, we all know the most probable outcome had it been the other way around is a Saunamen 4-3 victory. But when you're dealing with people who just want to pat each others' backs and "be nice" no amount of reason will do for you.
I don't know if that would work but it's a consideration...
I agree, but the fact that you had the choice of playing with the same six players or switching in substitutes was a choice that Nexzil didn't have.
uwot?
Name me a single other FPS tournament that allows mid game subs that anyone takes seriously...it doesn't happen for obvious reasons, you're not subbing 'cold' people you're subbing in fresh people. The timings of subs would only leverage the amount of potential abuse in any game, I'm not saying Archaea has broke any rules or anything and I think it's great as an organisation you guys all got to go down there and play (And as a spec to see Treff, Kor and Eagle getting out there making big plays) but it seems like one team got the real short end of the stick here and it's the first I've ever heard of subs being allowed in an offline FPS competition.
that's ridiculous though.
if they needed a sub so badly they could have asked some european-based players to merc for them. this is what happens in almost every lan event ever.