This round had me laughing pretty hard tbh. Good games though, despite most people liking as many games as possible, I love a good beat down where one team is clearly better than the other a lot more.
Community casters next time please. And keep Hugh and Wasabi as far away as possible as far as publicity is concerned.
What a fucking embarrasment.
Yeah for sure...The filler was absolutely embarrassing and boring to go through, which is my fault for watching live I guess. The casting...what was going on. UWE employee can't tell the difference between a hydra and a hive, what's going on. Lerks and Fades are dropping, and the only way to tell apparently is for Huze's (bless his soul) huge pop up on the screen to tell them. Camera work was pretty shoddy at times...Free roam watching at a PG in main get built while combat is happening elsewhere and a fade goes down. Why? Bleh.
First round was nice. Bitey = rl Tweak from South Park. Garfu asleep over there dreaming about Dr. Flammable while his team is practicing
The only thing I dislike about the casters is that sometimes they say things that are just out right not true.
Eg. on tram, scrajm dropped an RT ghost in logistics, they said "that's so aliens can't drop an RT" that's wrong, they can the ghost will disappear as soon as it comes into contact with infestation. What he did was, drop an RT to see if they took logistics or observation first so he could tell his marine squad to go to the right one.
It's not uncommon for casters to get strat guesses wrong, but just facts, that's bad man, like, ghost RT stops them dropping? Yeah, no, not even close.
I wasn't impressed with the stream of the event personally. The matches were excellent but some of the casting choices weren't great in my opinion. The SC2 caster for example, showed he didn't have a lot of experience with the game, and it seemed like he'd sat through a few streams in preparation and maybe played a match or two, but the connection just wasn't there...Though im sure many viewers are familiar with him (sorry, i don't recall his name) from Starcraft, so I understand the choice.
The social Media representative (Shannon) didn't seem to know anything about the game, or have any real interest in games (I'm undoubtedly wrong, but it's just how it came across to me)...She also seemed a bit flustered with someone talking into her ear-peice. I'd like to have seen someone from the NS community in that role instead.
Blind didn't get much screen time either, which is a shame. Blind, Hugh, Wasabi and RedDog are probably the best known casters in NS2, so for a majority of the commentary to be done by an 'outsider' when those guys are sat in the same room (RedDog excluded) was disappointing.
The filler was borderline unwatchable... why wasn't there team interviews? a proper explanation of game mechanics for new viewers? Talks with developers? History of NS, inspiration etc.
Instead, we saw silly 1v1 matches, face paint & constant back and forth between presenters every minute or so. As far as filler goes, the audience were the only ones who brought a smile to my face. "'Murica!, **** Yeah!"
My biggest disappointment though, was NS2 not making it onto the Steam homepage, AGAIN! Valve seem to think Farming Simulators have a bigger audience? Obviously this was out of UWE's control, but I'd be pissed with Valve if i was in their position. It's the third time since release it's been on sale, and the second time that information has been buried away on steam.
On the other hand, there was some serious interest in the game from viewers on the stream and the community showed themselves in the best possible light.
"I've no idea what's going on but it looks cool"
"Is this the Natural Selection from half life? I didn't even know about it"
"this game looks awesome, I'm gonna check it out"
I saw the stream peak at about 6.5k viewers, which is astonishing! and I hope it converts to sales and more word of mouth advertising. I really hope it's been a success for the company, and you all had a great time in Cologne.
Congrats to both Archea and Nexil, you both played excellently, and seemed to be enjoying yourselves whether on the winning side or not. You're all winners in my book!
A special congratulations to Rantology too. I can't think of anyone more deserving of the fan art prize. You've got some real talent and we're all lucky to see you bring some color into the NS2 universe with your artwork.
it seems that the e-sport is a bit too forced. If they want to help build NS2 as an e-sport they need to start with the base and build from there. Right now they're trying to build a beautiful tower top and its standing on a thin thread of wood. what you got today is a symptom of that : a pretty big stomp because the competitive scene isn't very efficient at building allstar teams. In most esport even the most dominant teams and players have winrates just above 50% archaea has like 70-90% winrate (talking per games not bo5-7-9).
Because there's not enough people switching to more competitive style of play and most people are playing "pub style" (AKA not 6v6, 1 round each side), there's not enough competitive culture in ns2 to feed its top tier scene. In almost every multiplayer games nowadays you can be thrown into a game with competitive settings within three clicks. You then get a taste and appreciation of how hard the game is and you have a chance of becoming a fan or a part of the scene itself.
Thats why im so excited about sabot, it was long needed, before the staged games. UWE needs to look at dota2 and sc2 etc... and pick the things they think they have the time and money to do. Broadcasting finals live on a stage should be nearly last on that list and will come naturally if they are successful at building and maintaining the scene.
Arc is the best team in the world and it isn't close. I wasn't expecting Nexzil to put up much of a fight, although I would've been glad if they had since Godar is my favorite team to watch.
As for the other aspects of the cast, I think the reason why they had to resort to so much silly stuff was because they had reserved four hours and it was pretty clear from Round 2 on that Nexzil wasn't going to win any games. I didn't watch it live (bad timing for US East Coast) so I got to skip through a lot of that stuff, so it wasn't as bad for me.
Also, UWE was using this as an advertising thing, so I can see why they pulled out all the stops, although a couple of the people they had hired didn't seem to really know what was going on. I do wish they had brought in Wasabi One to cast earlier, instead of that Starcraft guy who seemed just a little bit lost. Heck, blind was there - he's an awesome caster, they could've used him as well.
For all the hype that was generated around this event, I was pretty disappointed. Only round 1 was actually exciting to watch-after that the whole thing fell flat on its face. As well, at times it got a little too silly for my tastes. (It was a good try Hugh, but maybe tone it down a little next time.)
Oh yeah and round 4 made me cringe. It doesn't generally make good material for these kinds of events.
I would recommend that for next time UWE should do their best to not schedule an awkward blowout.
Considering the teams though I guess we all knew deep down from the start what would happen...
You can hope for an outcome all you want. it won't change a thing.
I will grade the finals. Not counting the painful beatdown from Arc (since this is out of anyone's control), I give it a C+.
Filler: 1v1 match was OK. The face painting was painful to watch and was universally panned by the chat. The interviewer seemed more like a fratboy than an interviewer. I would have preferred better questions, but he didn't do too bad. Flayra took his questions well. I'd say that Shannon the Art Submission girl didn't know like she knew what was going on in NS2, but I think if I was producing these finals, I would have done the same and hired her. You need a female to balance things out or increase viewership, even if she's somewhat incompetent at NS2.
Casting: Kaelerus should not have been casting. Hugh and Dillon are better casters. The SC2 Caster star power isn't worth it if he doesn't know what he's talking about. I suggest you have him play more NS2 until he knows what he's talking about, or don't hire him again.
You guys also need to reserve the right to change the rules in the middle of a tournament. NS2 is still getting regularly patched, so why are tournament rules always set in stone? Why did the finals even risk the chance of there being a pipeline spawn? Both teams don't want pipeline, and it would have been devastating to watch if pipeline WAS in the finals, but you guys can't change that on the spot?
At the people saying white washes are bad for events like this. What, you would rather arc play badly on purpose or something? Or not be allowed to play? No, they are the best and should get to play their best, it's up to others to try and defeat them.
The quality of the casting was abysmal. Basic game facts were screwed up aplenty, major moments of action were completely missed. Like the other guy said, thank god for Huze's big icons popping up. Forget Wasabi and Hugh for casting, get RedDog in there or someone else who actually knows what they are doing. First though --- what the hell was up with the SC2 caster? The last thing NS2 needs is star power from SC2, because it's nothing like it. If you insist on paying good money to fly Wasabi and Hugh anywhere (?!?) then they should be used to provide limited comic relief with their ridiculous back and forth banter. Just limit them to under 30 seconds at a time, no throwdowns, and for gods sake no more face painting.
There were points when the chat was going wild because the stream had devolved into a laughing stock. That shouldn't happen when you are trying to turn this thing into a professional e-sport.
One more thing, make sure the guy doing the interviews knows that he needs to ask relevant questions. Dude was a joke.
Why is the stream so blurry? Is the connection in the studio not capable of a 720p stream or something? I'm also stumped as to why they didn't just use the in-game team names/scores.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
It was very blury, especially in comparison to Scardy's stream for example. Not sure if it was ingame immersion options like atmospherics and ambient occlusion causing it or just a terrible resolution.
Huh really? Maybe it's just the recording, but it looks to be 480p.
It was low quality. Many other users in the chat also questioned the quality since we have seen 720p on normal streams. I forgot once the matches were started.
From the NS2 facebook:
Low quality VOD available on Twitch, high quality coming up on YouTube in the next few days
I agree, I wish they had the community casters on - they seem to know what's going on better than who they had. RedDog+Blind would have been clutch for casting this IMO. I thought they were going to do that anyway if it went longer?
On the show:
I wish they asked Dillon (WasabiOne) to do the commentating instead of this (famous?) StarCraft2 guy.
That SC2Pro claims he played the game with his brother, but then goes on to compare the Mutalisk with the Fade? Seriously?
How can you comment on a game where you don't even know the name of the units?
Was he comparing the Mutalisk to the Lerk or the Mutalisk to the Fade? I can't watch it on twitch to confirm (have to wait for youtube).
Because comparing the Mutalisk (the best unit ever, In StarCraft 1 Brood War that is) to the Fade is totally acceptable.
The Mutalisk is the best unit ever, and it can be used in every single match up, and there was even a time when many Zerg players just went 2 hatch muta every game against every match up (because Mutalisks are that good).
The Mutalisk can move and attack (and turn) at the same time (without stopping) + it is one of the fastest units in the game.
Being able to control the Mutalisk well requires a lot of practice (Mutalisk micro isn't just spam clicking, it requires precision and attention). The gist of Mutalisk micro involves being able to "dance" them around (attack a location then instantly retreat back without losing any speed) "but" to do that perfectly, you have to make sure the Mutalisk is facing the target it wants to attack, before you actually attack move (or patrol a location), or else the Mutalisk will slow down and lose speed (alternatively you can order the mutalisk to attack a unit directly, so it turns automatically before attacking but misclicks can sometimes occur if you're not too careful).
The Mutalisk can't turn instantly when you attack move, you need to turn manually and make the Mutalisk face a target before attacking.
Anyway, overall I say the (SC1) Mutalisk and Fade are very similar. The Fade is arguably the best alien unit overall (and also the one with the highest skill ceiling). The Fade (especially in NS2, now that JPs and Leap aren't as good) is the most maneuverable of the aliens (shadow step + blink). The Mutalisk is the same with one of the best maneuverability of all SC1 units (and one of the hardest units to control right, especially in ZvZ with Scourge battles). The Mutalisk (like the Fade) is labeled as the best unit in SC1BW due to the fact that its ability is only limited by the player's ability to use it (compared to like say a marine or zerglings or zealots where you can't really do much with them). (As for the second best unit in SC1? The Vulture which costs only 75 minerals and can be used basically like a ground Mutalisk.)
Of course this is all moot if the person was comparing the Mutalisk to Lerk. But if the person was comparing the Mutalisk to the Fade, then he was right on the spot as both are the best units with the highest skill ceiling of their respective games (SC1 Mutalisk that is... the SC2 Mutalisk is bad and lacks the ability to move and attack at the same time sadly).
The Lerk (compared to a unit to SC1) would be like the Drone or something (the Lerk isn't as epic enough to be compared to the legendary unit that is the Mutalisk). Though the Lerk being a Drone isn't that bad (again most units in SC1 with an acceleration/deceleration movement can attack and move at the same time). (In the Video, watch as the Drone does a "360!" while attacking and moving at the same time, and listen to the crowd cheer at the Drone).
[Edit 2] - I don't know how I didn't get this connection when I posted >.>. The Lerk is similar to the Defiler now that I think about it. Lerk has Umbra which blocks ranged damage (except splash, like from grenades). Defiler has Dark Swarm which blocks all ranged damage (except splash damage too).
Lerk has Spore (DoT effect) that deals damage to marines. Defiler has Plague (same thing except it's non-lethal damage but also affects structures). So yeah, ignore my Drone comparison earlier >.> (I compared the Lerk to the Drone in the sense that the Drone can be controlled similarly to the Mutalisk. So while the Lerk is very maneuverable, it has low health and low damage compared to the Fade which also has about the same maneuverability but with much more damage and health. Drones are actually deadly early game, and they actually have 1 range, which is more than the SCV. Of course, drones aren't good enough to fight marines head on like Mutalisk. Same with Lerk against Marines with good aim [Fades would last long enough to attack compared to the Lerk]. So yeah... Lerk being a Drone isn't a great comparison >.>. The better comparison is that the Lerk is a flying Defiler that can bite/spike stuff.)
Edit - To clarify about the time when a lot of Zerg players just went 2 hatch Muta (against every race and every strategy). The Mutalisk was just that good that players didn't even need to know anything about the StarCraft besides how to control Mutalisk (and you could win against basically everything using just Mutalisk). While Wraiths and other units with acceleration can be controlled similarly, they weren't as dominant as the Mutalisk. So that's why the comparison from the Mutalisk to the Fade can be made (Fade is the best alien with the best maneuverability and the Mutalisk is simply the best unit in SC1 overall, rivaled by none except maybe Vultures which are 75 mineral ground Mutalisks that can also plant mines).
Pretty sure it was the fade he compared them with, but who cares. Dude shouldn't have even been casting. Don't know what they were thinking except maybe something to do with getting e-famous by association. Even if you consider just the commanders in NS2, it's nothing at all like SC2.
I watch a decent amount of sc2 pro games but I didn't recognize the guy, on that same note I don't typically see sc2 pros in person since all i watch is the actual games (often on youtube)
Comments
Yeah for sure...The filler was absolutely embarrassing and boring to go through, which is my fault for watching live I guess. The casting...what was going on. UWE employee can't tell the difference between a hydra and a hive, what's going on. Lerks and Fades are dropping, and the only way to tell apparently is for Huze's (bless his soul) huge pop up on the screen to tell them. Camera work was pretty shoddy at times...Free roam watching at a PG in main get built while combat is happening elsewhere and a fade goes down. Why? Bleh.
First round was nice. Bitey = rl Tweak from South Park. Garfu asleep over there dreaming about Dr. Flammable while his team is practicing
Eg. on tram, scrajm dropped an RT ghost in logistics, they said "that's so aliens can't drop an RT" that's wrong, they can the ghost will disappear as soon as it comes into contact with infestation. What he did was, drop an RT to see if they took logistics or observation first so he could tell his marine squad to go to the right one.
The social Media representative (Shannon) didn't seem to know anything about the game, or have any real interest in games (I'm undoubtedly wrong, but it's just how it came across to me)...She also seemed a bit flustered with someone talking into her ear-peice. I'd like to have seen someone from the NS community in that role instead.
Blind didn't get much screen time either, which is a shame. Blind, Hugh, Wasabi and RedDog are probably the best known casters in NS2, so for a majority of the commentary to be done by an 'outsider' when those guys are sat in the same room (RedDog excluded) was disappointing.
The filler was borderline unwatchable... why wasn't there team interviews? a proper explanation of game mechanics for new viewers? Talks with developers? History of NS, inspiration etc.
Instead, we saw silly 1v1 matches, face paint & constant back and forth between presenters every minute or so. As far as filler goes, the audience were the only ones who brought a smile to my face. "'Murica!, **** Yeah!"
My biggest disappointment though, was NS2 not making it onto the Steam homepage, AGAIN! Valve seem to think Farming Simulators have a bigger audience? Obviously this was out of UWE's control, but I'd be pissed with Valve if i was in their position. It's the third time since release it's been on sale, and the second time that information has been buried away on steam.
On the other hand, there was some serious interest in the game from viewers on the stream and the community showed themselves in the best possible light.
"I've no idea what's going on but it looks cool"
"Is this the Natural Selection from half life? I didn't even know about it"
"this game looks awesome, I'm gonna check it out"
I saw the stream peak at about 6.5k viewers, which is astonishing! and I hope it converts to sales and more word of mouth advertising. I really hope it's been a success for the company, and you all had a great time in Cologne.
Congrats to both Archea and Nexil, you both played excellently, and seemed to be enjoying yourselves whether on the winning side or not. You're all winners in my book!
A special congratulations to Rantology too. I can't think of anyone more deserving of the fan art prize. You've got some real talent and we're all lucky to see you bring some color into the NS2 universe with your artwork.
Because there's not enough people switching to more competitive style of play and most people are playing "pub style" (AKA not 6v6, 1 round each side), there's not enough competitive culture in ns2 to feed its top tier scene. In almost every multiplayer games nowadays you can be thrown into a game with competitive settings within three clicks. You then get a taste and appreciation of how hard the game is and you have a chance of becoming a fan or a part of the scene itself.
Thats why im so excited about sabot, it was long needed, before the staged games. UWE needs to look at dota2 and sc2 etc... and pick the things they think they have the time and money to do. Broadcasting finals live on a stage should be nearly last on that list and will come naturally if they are successful at building and maintaining the scene.
39:55, I regret nothing.
Round 5 had an interesting CC play...and uh yeah, great stuff I guess, 5-0, can we please revert all the marine nerfs or at least some of them now.
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
Current Peak
1,765 2,194 Farming Simulator 2013
1,126 1,589 Natural Selection 2
There's no think involved.
As for the other aspects of the cast, I think the reason why they had to resort to so much silly stuff was because they had reserved four hours and it was pretty clear from Round 2 on that Nexzil wasn't going to win any games. I didn't watch it live (bad timing for US East Coast) so I got to skip through a lot of that stuff, so it wasn't as bad for me.
Also, UWE was using this as an advertising thing, so I can see why they pulled out all the stops, although a couple of the people they had hired didn't seem to really know what was going on. I do wish they had brought in Wasabi One to cast earlier, instead of that Starcraft guy who seemed just a little bit lost. Heck, blind was there - he's an awesome caster, they could've used him as well.
Oh yeah and round 4 made me cringe. It doesn't generally make good material for these kinds of events.
I would recommend that for next time UWE should do their best to not schedule an awkward blowout.
Considering the teams though I guess we all knew deep down from the start what would happen...
You can hope for an outcome all you want. it won't change a thing.
Filler: 1v1 match was OK. The face painting was painful to watch and was universally panned by the chat. The interviewer seemed more like a fratboy than an interviewer. I would have preferred better questions, but he didn't do too bad. Flayra took his questions well. I'd say that Shannon the Art Submission girl didn't know like she knew what was going on in NS2, but I think if I was producing these finals, I would have done the same and hired her. You need a female to balance things out or increase viewership, even if she's somewhat incompetent at NS2.
Casting: Kaelerus should not have been casting. Hugh and Dillon are better casters. The SC2 Caster star power isn't worth it if he doesn't know what he's talking about. I suggest you have him play more NS2 until he knows what he's talking about, or don't hire him again.
You guys also need to reserve the right to change the rules in the middle of a tournament. NS2 is still getting regularly patched, so why are tournament rules always set in stone? Why did the finals even risk the chance of there being a pipeline spawn? Both teams don't want pipeline, and it would have been devastating to watch if pipeline WAS in the finals, but you guys can't change that on the spot?
AT 2hrs 39minuts and 39seconds the game starts for the 4 min win.
There were points when the chat was going wild because the stream had devolved into a laughing stock. That shouldn't happen when you are trying to turn this thing into a professional e-sport.
One more thing, make sure the guy doing the interviews knows that he needs to ask relevant questions. Dude was a joke.
custom skin mod coming soon
It was low quality. Many other users in the chat also questioned the quality since we have seen 720p on normal streams. I forgot once the matches were started.
From the NS2 facebook:
Low quality VOD available on Twitch, high quality coming up on YouTube in the next few days
I agree, I wish they had the community casters on - they seem to know what's going on better than who they had. RedDog+Blind would have been clutch for casting this IMO. I thought they were going to do that anyway if it went longer?
Was he comparing the Mutalisk to the Lerk or the Mutalisk to the Fade? I can't watch it on twitch to confirm (have to wait for youtube).
Because comparing the Mutalisk (the best unit ever, In StarCraft 1 Brood War that is) to the Fade is totally acceptable.
The Mutalisk is the best unit ever, and it can be used in every single match up, and there was even a time when many Zerg players just went 2 hatch muta every game against every match up (because Mutalisks are that good).
The Mutalisk can move and attack (and turn) at the same time (without stopping) + it is one of the fastest units in the game.
Being able to control the Mutalisk well requires a lot of practice (Mutalisk micro isn't just spam clicking, it requires precision and attention). The gist of Mutalisk micro involves being able to "dance" them around (attack a location then instantly retreat back without losing any speed) "but" to do that perfectly, you have to make sure the Mutalisk is facing the target it wants to attack, before you actually attack move (or patrol a location), or else the Mutalisk will slow down and lose speed (alternatively you can order the mutalisk to attack a unit directly, so it turns automatically before attacking but misclicks can sometimes occur if you're not too careful).
The Mutalisk can't turn instantly when you attack move, you need to turn manually and make the Mutalisk face a target before attacking.
Good Mutalisk control is the key to combating Scourges (which move as fast as the Mutalisk). Here is a game showing ZvZ Mutalisk wars. Watch the epicness of the Mutalisk! (It's not just Mutalisk either of course, Wraiths and any other unit with acceleration/deacceleration can dance like Mutalisks.) (Mutalisks are the best out of them all though.)
Anyway, overall I say the (SC1) Mutalisk and Fade are very similar. The Fade is arguably the best alien unit overall (and also the one with the highest skill ceiling). The Fade (especially in NS2, now that JPs and Leap aren't as good) is the most maneuverable of the aliens (shadow step + blink). The Mutalisk is the same with one of the best maneuverability of all SC1 units (and one of the hardest units to control right, especially in ZvZ with Scourge battles). The Mutalisk (like the Fade) is labeled as the best unit in SC1BW due to the fact that its ability is only limited by the player's ability to use it (compared to like say a marine or zerglings or zealots where you can't really do much with them). (As for the second best unit in SC1? The Vulture which costs only 75 minerals and can be used basically like a ground Mutalisk.)
Of course this is all moot if the person was comparing the Mutalisk to Lerk. But if the person was comparing the Mutalisk to the Fade, then he was right on the spot as both are the best units with the highest skill ceiling of their respective games (SC1 Mutalisk that is... the SC2 Mutalisk is bad and lacks the ability to move and attack at the same time sadly).
The Lerk (compared to a unit to SC1) would be like the Drone or something (the Lerk isn't as epic enough to be compared to the legendary unit that is the Mutalisk). Though the Lerk being a Drone isn't that bad (again most units in SC1 with an acceleration/deceleration movement can attack and move at the same time). (In the Video, watch as the Drone does a "360!" while attacking and moving at the same time, and listen to the crowd cheer at the Drone).
[Edit 2] - I don't know how I didn't get this connection when I posted >.>. The Lerk is similar to the Defiler now that I think about it. Lerk has Umbra which blocks ranged damage (except splash, like from grenades). Defiler has Dark Swarm which blocks all ranged damage (except splash damage too).
Lerk has Spore (DoT effect) that deals damage to marines. Defiler has Plague (same thing except it's non-lethal damage but also affects structures). So yeah, ignore my Drone comparison earlier >.> (I compared the Lerk to the Drone in the sense that the Drone can be controlled similarly to the Mutalisk. So while the Lerk is very maneuverable, it has low health and low damage compared to the Fade which also has about the same maneuverability but with much more damage and health. Drones are actually deadly early game, and they actually have 1 range, which is more than the SCV. Of course, drones aren't good enough to fight marines head on like Mutalisk. Same with Lerk against Marines with good aim [Fades would last long enough to attack compared to the Lerk]. So yeah... Lerk being a Drone isn't a great comparison >.>. The better comparison is that the Lerk is a flying Defiler that can bite/spike stuff.)
Edit - To clarify about the time when a lot of Zerg players just went 2 hatch Muta (against every race and every strategy). The Mutalisk was just that good that players didn't even need to know anything about the StarCraft besides how to control Mutalisk (and you could win against basically everything using just Mutalisk). While Wraiths and other units with acceleration can be controlled similarly, they weren't as dominant as the Mutalisk. So that's why the comparison from the Mutalisk to the Fade can be made (Fade is the best alien with the best maneuverability and the Mutalisk is simply the best unit in SC1 overall, rivaled by none except maybe Vultures which are 75 mineral ground Mutalisks that can also plant mines).
Pretty sure it was the fade he compared them with, but who cares. Dude shouldn't have even been casting. Don't know what they were thinking except maybe something to do with getting e-famous by association. Even if you consider just the commanders in NS2, it's nothing at all like SC2.