This is only true for 1v1 combat. Skilled alien teams can even up the odds via coordination and tactics such as baiting (i.e. parasiting marines to try to draw fire or pull them out of position), timing (i.e. drawing a marines attention so your teammate can attack from behind, or drawing fire until the marine reloads), or swarming (i.e. attacking en masse to make it harder for the marines to focus-fire or track which skulks are damaged).
However, early game comp play for aliens typically revolve around protecting harvesters and delaying till they get fades. Unless your trying a rush or defending, skulks should be avoiding combat as much as possible.
Thanks for clarifying, but I still have to disagree with you in your premise that if clones of you had been playing pre-240, marines would have won more consistently (unless, of course, you actually and honestly meant 12vs12, which I can't talk about, since my brain cannot accept such numbers in a NS2 environment). The only two things I have backing this up are the competitive statistics from ns2stats.org, which indicate a 66-34 balance tip in favor of the aliens pre-240, and my (as well as that of the majority of the high-end competitive scene) anecdotal evidence of not having to break a sweat securing an alien victory against an equally-skilled team, but struggling against the same people in the marine round. Consistently.
If you want more proof, I'm afraid I cannot provide that. But I still think my evidence is more solid than your hypothetical clone wars.
I do agree 100% with you about balance not consisting of only the overall amount of victories by both teams, though. A coin flip at the start of each round determining the victor would provide a sharp 50-50 balance, but it wouldn't be a game anymore. Me saying the balance is the best it has been so far was a reflection of the overall balance and enjoyment (anecdotal though) in competitive matches. Marines don't have to be struggling during early game as they had to pre-240, but aliens still feel capable.
And I do admit that I look at things from a too competitive point of view. But this discussion began when you stated that aliens being favoured was because of stupid marines, which can easily be disproved by pointing out the imbalance of competitive games, like I did. I don't really think anyone can argue against that. Of course, different factors from competitive are in play in public games, but the problem wouldn't have been solved by marines getting smarter, since that didn't help in competitive either.
I never said lerks got their movement nerfed. The tracers are not over the top. Saying this leads us to the conclusion that adding in tracers is part of the game. It is not, throwing out the ability for a lerk to perch is absurd. Sadly the noobs had their way and the easy way out was taken. Less skill great! I'll keep playing that game. You telling us to stop roosting and learn how to move while firing is another subjective argument. One that implies that you are somehow.... better than me?
I never said lerks got their movement nerfed. The tracers are not over the top. Saying this leads us to the conclusion that adding in tracers is part of the game. It is not, throwing out the ability for a lerk to perch is absurd. Sadly the noobs had their way and the easy way out was taken. Less skill great! I'll keep playing that game. You telling us to stop roosting and learn how to move while firing is another subjective argument. One that implies that you are somehow.... better than me?
Roosting and shooting was a sign of a bad lerk player, since when a marine spots you, odds are that the combined time it takes for (the best of reflexes to react to being shot) + (your latency to the server) + (the time it takes for the lerk to accelerate from a completely stationary position to a speed of escape) is much more than the time it takes for an LMG to deal 225 or 275 damage, depending on if you have carapace. It's really not about skill at that point, so any good lerk will not snipe from a roosting position in the first place.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
This is only true for 1v1 combat. Skilled alien teams can even up the odds via coordination and tactics such as baiting (i.e. parasiting marines to try to draw fire or pull them out of position), timing (i.e. drawing a marines attention so your teammate can attack from behind, or drawing fire until the marine reloads), or swarming (i.e. attacking en masse to make it harder for the marines to focus-fire or track which skulks are damaged).
However, early game comp play for aliens typically revolve around protecting harvesters and delaying till they get fades. Unless your trying a rush or defending, skulks should be avoiding combat as much as possible.
Two points here:
1. Skulks are able to compensate for tactical weakness by strategic speed; e.g. early game marines usually split up into two fairly even forces. It should be possible for the aliens to form a large swarm and attack one marine force, wiping it out, then move to the second marine force and possibly wipe it out as well. Theoretically, at least... requires communication and teamwork to pull it off.
2. The weaker skulks now forces aliens to spend pres for gorges and lerks early game in order to compensate for weaker skulks, and Fades in the midgame. This means that the all-fade or all-Onos lifeform explosion is no longer as significant... which, again, is a good thing. And of course, learning how to fight in combined lerk/skulk/gorge battlegroups requires quite a bit of teamwork and communication to pull it off. Darn.
I never said lerks got their movement nerfed. The tracers are not over the top. Saying this leads us to the conclusion that adding in tracers is part of the game. It is not, throwing out the ability for a lerk to perch is absurd. Sadly the noobs had their way and the easy way out was taken. Less skill great! I'll keep playing that game. You telling us to stop roosting and learn how to move while firing is another subjective argument. One that implies that you are somehow.... better than me?
Roosting in a corner and shooting people took skill? What? I missed that memo. The whole point of why roosting is bad is exactly what Therius explained. Due to lag compensation if that marine sees you, you will probably die before you can escape, hence the better solution is to take to the skies and sooooooooooooooooar. This was true before tracers and still holds true now.
Honestly I think the compleat oppiste. In hours of experience as aliens I normaly do better in the start then at the start of marines and can consistiantly rack up a good ammount of kills in the first few minutes befor any marine upgrades.
1. Skulks are able to compensate for tactical weakness by strategic speed; e.g. early game marines usually split up into two fairly even forces. It should be possible for the aliens to form a large swarm and attack one marine force, wiping it out, then move to the second marine force and possibly wipe it out as well. Theoretically, at least... requires communication and teamwork to pull it off.
2. The weaker skulks now forces aliens to spend pres for gorges and lerks early game in order to compensate for weaker skulks, and Fades in the midgame. This means that the all-fade or all-Onos lifeform explosion is no longer as significant... which, again, is a good thing. And of course, learning how to fight in combined lerk/skulk/gorge battlegroups requires quite a bit of teamwork and communication to pull it off. Darn.
All true, which is why the impact of skulk changes on comp play appears to be much less than public play. The big issue I see is that teamwork is necessary, but not properly supported. In NS2, its largely left up to the players to self-organize with the bare minimum tools (e.g. voice/text chat and orders/waypoints). It shouldn't be surprising that this fails in the majority of pubs.
That's why I'm hoping that the original squad system concepts get a second look and expanded upon (for both marines and aliens).
Wow a lot of butthurt Marine players here, seeking revenge for the fact that the pre 240 60% Alien winrate was mostly the fault of shitty players shooting at Clog Walls for the entire game. That certainly is a good basis for a balance discussion!
Why do so many people continuously ignore the fact that the balance was even MORE skewed towards aliens in competitive than in public games back in pre-240? You can't blame that on bad play.
No thats due to 6v6 games in comp play.
Marines suck at map control with fewer than about 8v8.
They also scale up and are scary at 12v12...even scarier at 20v20 or higher.
Comp play in no way reflect what the gaming experience is for most players...who are casual gamer and dont play these "mini" games.
Personally I think the whole 6 player is a bad legacy we need to move away from..the public is no longer playing HL mods ala CS, TFC etc with 6 a side we are more playing games like BF (upwards of 9 a side minimum).
NS lends itself to higher numbers well..thats why you often see 18+ servers full but 16 empty.
This is only true for 1v1 combat. Skilled alien teams can even up the odds via coordination and tactics such as baiting (i.e. parasiting marines to try to draw fire or pull them out of position), timing (i.e. drawing a marines attention so your teammate can attack from behind, or drawing fire until the marine reloads), or swarming (i.e. attacking en masse to make it harder for the marines to focus-fire or track which skulks are damaged).
However, early game comp play for aliens typically revolve around protecting harvesters and delaying till they get fades. Unless your trying a rush or defending, skulks should be avoiding combat as much as possible.
Two points here:
1. Skulks are able to compensate for tactical weakness by strategic speed; e.g. early game marines usually split up into two fairly even forces. It should be possible for the aliens to form a large swarm and attack one marine force, wiping it out, then move to the second marine force and possibly wipe it out as well. Theoretically, at least... requires communication and teamwork to pull it off.
2. The weaker skulks now forces aliens to spend pres for gorges and lerks early game in order to compensate for weaker skulks, and Fades in the midgame. This means that the all-fade or all-Onos lifeform explosion is no longer as significant... which, again, is a good thing. And of course, learning how to fight in combined lerk/skulk/gorge battlegroups requires quite a bit of teamwork and communication to pull it off. Darn.
Well depending on the numbers in the two splits...Now if the marines are knowledagble co-ordinated and know that you dont send all your forces one way but send most then all of a sudden you have a problem again as marines clearly outclass aliens.
With point 2 I disagree a weak skulk does no such thing, the reason you see gorges is that smart aliens know that if your skulks are heading 1 side of the map...you run teh chance of the marines moving up the other side and walking into you hive (egg lock anyone).
Lerks are borderline early game...they require 10 RES which takes time.
So early game comp play (5v5 in the field) revolves around harvester protection...this is due to the fact that aliens sucked at any form of aggression (funny considering they are the invading force).
I still dont get why comp play keep getting thrown around so much.
Sure there was a large contingent of NS fans (mostly comp players) that helped get this game going...but if you want to see the comp scene existing in 12-36 months time you will need to realise most people are not playing with such pityful numbers, they seek out 18+ servers for a reason....heck 24 is popular for good reason (you most likely to have min of 10v10...which is a nice number).
UWE needs to stop ignoring what is the majority of their customer base and trying to balance to the legacy team sizes from ns. Instead balance need to be considered for 9v9 as this allows for more middle ground between the current two camps (comp 6 a side...pub 12 a side).
24 players servers are popular as people like playing in bigger groups (helps avoid the issue of the server suddenly being 2v2 due to people leaving).
UWE did take heed of the gripes the non comp players had about the bite cone shape....what they need to now realise is that the aliens should have as good a mobility (including direction changes) as marines do...after all you to be good at melee combat you need to be mobile and agile.
I am far from some noob skulk who doesnt know how to get within bite range uninjured, this should allow me to win that 1v1 combat (being that I am an alien with melee strength)...but even from the get go the marine stands as much of a chance as I do.
Funny that I stand 0% chance at range combat...yet they must have 50% chance from teh start (goes up with SGs...and weapons upgrades).
Metal ManJoin Date: 2011-11-13Member: 132717Members
I hate to say it but skulks still feel very floaty and bulky. They need momentum gain (not bunny hopping but via wall jumping) and an aggression to their movement. They are absurdly predictable to follow and when performance eventually increases they will be even easier to kill. Honestly it is almost like they aren't touching the ground... they just keep floating along.
And imo it isn't just the last 2 patches that have ruined skulk movement. These have been my sentiments for several months. Give skulks some force when they jump and hit the ground. Let their momentum carry over from a jump or an overhead drop. They shouldn't be holding forward and barrel rolling the perimeter of a corridor. They need to be jumping and dodging and make sharp harsh movements and HARD to hit. Make them feel like a vicious puma that can stick to walls... not this hapless bunny rabbit feeling.
I am trying my best to explain how irritating it is to play as a skulk, and I hope others understand what I am saying. They feel so damn soft in terms of movement. And yeah, marines feel more mobile than skulks.
Although I do see this as a problem with the current performance issues, but I am optimistic that these issues will be resolved soon.
P.S. we need a solution to parasite. That used to be one of the MOST important aspects of early game NS1. Why does it go away so easily? If someone could explain to me why UWE chose to have armories remove it, I would very much appreciate it.
If there has been less of an impact on competitive skulks, it is almost certainly due to the larger proportion of players that know how to exploit wall jumping to its fullest potential.
If there has been less of an impact on competitive skulks, it is almost certainly due to the larger proportion of players that know how to exploit wall jumping to its fullest potential.
No its team sizes..comp games are 6v6. so you only have 5 in teh field...which due to autonomy of khamm makes it harder for marines to keep map control.
If there has been less of an impact on competitive skulks, it is almost certainly due to the larger proportion of players that know how to exploit wall jumping to its fullest potential.
No its team sizes..comp games are 6v6. so you only have 5 in teh field...which due to autonomy of khamm makes it harder for marines to keep map control.
Hmm. To be honest, I could care less about tactical or logistical advantage at this point. The dynamics of something as abstract as territory coverage and control will take a long time to fully reveal itself in this patch. All I care about is KPD between marine and skulk players. Not that KPD is an incredibly important statistic, but if marines consistently lead alien kills 2 to 1 in the first few minutes, then I think we will clearly be able to identify an early game imbalance.
If there has been less of an impact on competitive skulks, it is almost certainly due to the larger proportion of players that know how to exploit wall jumping to its fullest potential.
No its team sizes..comp games are 6v6. so you only have 5 in teh field...which due to autonomy of khamm makes it harder for marines to keep map control.
Hmm. To be honest, I could care less about tactical or logistical advantage at this point. The dynamics of something as abstract as territory coverage and control will take a long time to fully reveal itself in this patch. All I care about is KPD between marine and skulk players. Not that KPD is an incredibly important statistic, but if marines consistently lead alien kills 2 to 1 in the first few minutes, then I think we will clearly be able to identify an early game imbalance.
The issue is that on low pop servers aliens have massive advantage...once you get to about 8v8 or greater marines start dominating.
Comp games are a terrible measure for most of us who play for fun.
Dont get me wrong I completely agree there is an imbalance and the nerfs to skulk movement are the cause.
UWE removed marine accel ramp up late'ish beta but have left it (now increased it) for aliens.
Skulks suck early game and have always sucked late game...same is far from true with marines.
Roosting in a corner and shooting people took skill? What? I missed that memo. The whole point of why roosting is bad is exactly what Therius explained. Due to lag compensation if that marine sees you, you will probably die before you can escape, hence the better solution is to take to the skies and sooooooooooooooooar. This was true before tracers and still holds true now.
Finding the roosted lerk required skill, thats why in my previous posts I described ways to interpolate the position of the hidden lerk, and not how hard it is to shoot marines while roosted. So there are two problems with tracers. One tracers takes away a primary function of roosting. Secondly you can't even see the lerk with tracers now. Shooting lerks has become harder since the addition of tracers.
...Give skulks some force when they jump and hit the ground. Let their momentum carry over from a jump or an overhead drop. They shouldn't be holding forward and barrel rolling the perimeter of a corridor.
Actually that does still happen. Go try it
I agree the skulks are a little too cumbersome to turn rapidly in close range. But I've found this just makes you change your tactics - I have been ambushing from high up and when you land, if you jump right as you hit the ground you get a big speed boost to close the distance. Also, try being more elusive - I've found that diving in , making a quick bite or two, then escaping to the opposite wall and climbing before the marine is able to track you is pretty effective. Its really not that hard to parasite then 2 bite a lone marine. And once you get celerity its even easier.
Thats for skulks - maybe they took a little hit with no upgrades - but look at other forms.
Lerks - unchanged other than the tracers, big deal - it hasn't changed my Lerk play at all because I was never a 'hide in a corner and sneak shots in" player - I like to be useful for my team and not just rack up kills.
Fades - are more powerful than ever! A SINGLE fade took me out in a single mini exo the other day! I could not believe it, first time that ever happened. I hit him a lot but he just escaped and regenerated twice and took me out. Yes I realize I should have had a welder with me but the point is that has never happened to me and this fade was good but not pro. His mobility seems a bit faster and his swipe seems to do a lot more damage.
Gorge - obviously got some good buffs recently
So you can't very well say all early game aliens are nerfed (ok Fade is mid game so what). Sure skulks took a hit but I'm not seeing a big difference in win / loss ratios.
Marines suck at map control with fewer than about 8v8.
They also scale up and are scary at 12v12...even scarier at 20v20 or higher.
Comp play in no way reflect what the gaming experience is for most players...who are casual gamer and dont play these "mini" games.
Personally I think the whole 6 player is a bad legacy we need to move away from..the public is no longer playing HL mods ala CS, TFC etc with 6 a side we are more playing games like BF (upwards of 9 a side minimum).
NS lends itself to higher numbers well..thats why you often see 18+ servers full but 16 empty.
I'd like you try to organize a 15-20 man team regularly. Dare I use WoW as evidence that 40 man raids were difficult to consistently do without a roster of 40 and then back ups of ~40. Translate that to NS and now we'd need rosters of like 25-30 people. We'd field 2 teams out of NA and a couple handfuls out of EU. How is that helpful?
I, personally, really didn't have glaring problems with the skulk in the newest patch. I think that of the ones whining, they are trying to use the skulk in the wrong way. Like a hammer for a screw. It could work, but its not the most effective approach.
Secondly, Lerk perching while shooting was quite possibly the dumbest thing you could do, for example:
Joe Lerk, "Eat these spikes human scum."
Johnny Marine, "God damn these are annoying where is that piece of...there he is"
TAT TAT TAT.
Johnny Marine, "Now where was I."
What you should be doing is
Joe Lerk, "Ah, a mark. Lets feast" Wooosh, NOM NOM NOM.
Johnny Marine, "OH GAWD GET IT OFF" TAT TAT TAT.
Joe Lerk, "Delicious."
Is this thread not just a big QQ but Aliens now require teamwork rather than being one man hit squads able to take 3 marines at once?
Maybe there's a middle between those two extremes ? And yes, needing teamwork for a 1v1 is extreme. I love playing Marines, this is awesome. But since the patch, I hate playing Aliens.
To illustrate the problem, I'll give you my average K/D before the patch as a Marine: 1/14. After the patch: 14/8. And the same goes for my Aliens ratios, went from average/good, to 2/10ish. My skill didn't change overnight as the patch went up. The patch drastically changed the 1v1 confrontations. And as hakenspite said, there's a problem with the design of Skulks vulnerable at distance, but STILL vulnerable at close range. They should have a definite advantage once there.
Would be cool if skulks got a momentary speed up when they landed a bite. Kind of force them to stalk marines, but once they get in close they become much more agile and maneuverable. Force marines to run away from them.
I had no problems being agile for the 12 games played last night once in the marines face. I made sure to play entire matches as skulk too never evolving to another alien type just to see if all the hoopla on the intarweebs was true.
Have they been adjusted, yes.
Are they almost useless, absolutely untrue.
BTW, last time I played aliens was 236 patch mostly and a few times with 239. I play Marines otherwise exclusively. I think being an Alien now is easier for me because I am used to marine play... having to think before acting and really work as a team.
Comments
However, early game comp play for aliens typically revolve around protecting harvesters and delaying till they get fades. Unless your trying a rush or defending, skulks should be avoiding combat as much as possible.
Thanks for clarifying, but I still have to disagree with you in your premise that if clones of you had been playing pre-240, marines would have won more consistently (unless, of course, you actually and honestly meant 12vs12, which I can't talk about, since my brain cannot accept such numbers in a NS2 environment). The only two things I have backing this up are the competitive statistics from ns2stats.org, which indicate a 66-34 balance tip in favor of the aliens pre-240, and my (as well as that of the majority of the high-end competitive scene) anecdotal evidence of not having to break a sweat securing an alien victory against an equally-skilled team, but struggling against the same people in the marine round. Consistently.
If you want more proof, I'm afraid I cannot provide that. But I still think my evidence is more solid than your hypothetical clone wars.
I do agree 100% with you about balance not consisting of only the overall amount of victories by both teams, though. A coin flip at the start of each round determining the victor would provide a sharp 50-50 balance, but it wouldn't be a game anymore. Me saying the balance is the best it has been so far was a reflection of the overall balance and enjoyment (anecdotal though) in competitive matches. Marines don't have to be struggling during early game as they had to pre-240, but aliens still feel capable.
And I do admit that I look at things from a too competitive point of view. But this discussion began when you stated that aliens being favoured was because of stupid marines, which can easily be disproved by pointing out the imbalance of competitive games, like I did. I don't really think anyone can argue against that. Of course, different factors from competitive are in play in public games, but the problem wouldn't have been solved by marines getting smarter, since that didn't help in competitive either.
Roosting and shooting was a sign of a bad lerk player, since when a marine spots you, odds are that the combined time it takes for (the best of reflexes to react to being shot) + (your latency to the server) + (the time it takes for the lerk to accelerate from a completely stationary position to a speed of escape) is much more than the time it takes for an LMG to deal 225 or 275 damage, depending on if you have carapace. It's really not about skill at that point, so any good lerk will not snipe from a roosting position in the first place.
Two points here:
1. Skulks are able to compensate for tactical weakness by strategic speed; e.g. early game marines usually split up into two fairly even forces. It should be possible for the aliens to form a large swarm and attack one marine force, wiping it out, then move to the second marine force and possibly wipe it out as well. Theoretically, at least... requires communication and teamwork to pull it off.
2. The weaker skulks now forces aliens to spend pres for gorges and lerks early game in order to compensate for weaker skulks, and Fades in the midgame. This means that the all-fade or all-Onos lifeform explosion is no longer as significant... which, again, is a good thing. And of course, learning how to fight in combined lerk/skulk/gorge battlegroups requires quite a bit of teamwork and communication to pull it off. Darn.
Roosting in a corner and shooting people took skill? What? I missed that memo. The whole point of why roosting is bad is exactly what Therius explained. Due to lag compensation if that marine sees you, you will probably die before you can escape, hence the better solution is to take to the skies and sooooooooooooooooar. This was true before tracers and still holds true now.
1) use parasite to make marine 2 bites
2) uses walk key to make no noise
3) profit!!!
1. Marine bunny hops and moves making bites miss or hit for less.
2. Marine empties clip, then double taps pistol and kills you in a second or two.
That's why I'm hoping that the original squad system concepts get a second look and expanded upon (for both marines and aliens).
Marines suck at map control with fewer than about 8v8.
They also scale up and are scary at 12v12...even scarier at 20v20 or higher.
Comp play in no way reflect what the gaming experience is for most players...who are casual gamer and dont play these "mini" games.
Personally I think the whole 6 player is a bad legacy we need to move away from..the public is no longer playing HL mods ala CS, TFC etc with 6 a side we are more playing games like BF (upwards of 9 a side minimum).
NS lends itself to higher numbers well..thats why you often see 18+ servers full but 16 empty.
Well depending on the numbers in the two splits...Now if the marines are knowledagble co-ordinated and know that you dont send all your forces one way but send most then all of a sudden you have a problem again as marines clearly outclass aliens.
With point 2 I disagree a weak skulk does no such thing, the reason you see gorges is that smart aliens know that if your skulks are heading 1 side of the map...you run teh chance of the marines moving up the other side and walking into you hive (egg lock anyone).
Lerks are borderline early game...they require 10 RES which takes time.
So early game comp play (5v5 in the field) revolves around harvester protection...this is due to the fact that aliens sucked at any form of aggression (funny considering they are the invading force).
I still dont get why comp play keep getting thrown around so much.
Sure there was a large contingent of NS fans (mostly comp players) that helped get this game going...but if you want to see the comp scene existing in 12-36 months time you will need to realise most people are not playing with such pityful numbers, they seek out 18+ servers for a reason....heck 24 is popular for good reason (you most likely to have min of 10v10...which is a nice number).
UWE needs to stop ignoring what is the majority of their customer base and trying to balance to the legacy team sizes from ns. Instead balance need to be considered for 9v9 as this allows for more middle ground between the current two camps (comp 6 a side...pub 12 a side).
24 players servers are popular as people like playing in bigger groups (helps avoid the issue of the server suddenly being 2v2 due to people leaving).
UWE did take heed of the gripes the non comp players had about the bite cone shape....what they need to now realise is that the aliens should have as good a mobility (including direction changes) as marines do...after all you to be good at melee combat you need to be mobile and agile.
I am far from some noob skulk who doesnt know how to get within bite range uninjured, this should allow me to win that 1v1 combat (being that I am an alien with melee strength)...but even from the get go the marine stands as much of a chance as I do.
Funny that I stand 0% chance at range combat...yet they must have 50% chance from teh start (goes up with SGs...and weapons upgrades).
And imo it isn't just the last 2 patches that have ruined skulk movement. These have been my sentiments for several months. Give skulks some force when they jump and hit the ground. Let their momentum carry over from a jump or an overhead drop. They shouldn't be holding forward and barrel rolling the perimeter of a corridor. They need to be jumping and dodging and make sharp harsh movements and HARD to hit. Make them feel like a vicious puma that can stick to walls... not this hapless bunny rabbit feeling.
I am trying my best to explain how irritating it is to play as a skulk, and I hope others understand what I am saying. They feel so damn soft in terms of movement. And yeah, marines feel more mobile than skulks.
Although I do see this as a problem with the current performance issues, but I am optimistic that these issues will be resolved soon.
P.S. we need a solution to parasite. That used to be one of the MOST important aspects of early game NS1. Why does it go away so easily? If someone could explain to me why UWE chose to have armories remove it, I would very much appreciate it.
No its team sizes..comp games are 6v6. so you only have 5 in teh field...which due to autonomy of khamm makes it harder for marines to keep map control.
Hmm. To be honest, I could care less about tactical or logistical advantage at this point. The dynamics of something as abstract as territory coverage and control will take a long time to fully reveal itself in this patch. All I care about is KPD between marine and skulk players. Not that KPD is an incredibly important statistic, but if marines consistently lead alien kills 2 to 1 in the first few minutes, then I think we will clearly be able to identify an early game imbalance.
The issue is that on low pop servers aliens have massive advantage...once you get to about 8v8 or greater marines start dominating.
Comp games are a terrible measure for most of us who play for fun.
Dont get me wrong I completely agree there is an imbalance and the nerfs to skulk movement are the cause.
UWE removed marine accel ramp up late'ish beta but have left it (now increased it) for aliens.
Skulks suck early game and have always sucked late game...same is far from true with marines.
Marines are 100% at range and 50% in melee.
A melee focused team should have more melee agility than the non melee team.
Otherwise I want my acid rockets back for the fade!!!
Finding the roosted lerk required skill, thats why in my previous posts I described ways to interpolate the position of the hidden lerk, and not how hard it is to shoot marines while roosted. So there are two problems with tracers. One tracers takes away a primary function of roosting. Secondly you can't even see the lerk with tracers now. Shooting lerks has become harder since the addition of tracers.
Actually that does still happen. Go try it
I agree the skulks are a little too cumbersome to turn rapidly in close range. But I've found this just makes you change your tactics - I have been ambushing from high up and when you land, if you jump right as you hit the ground you get a big speed boost to close the distance. Also, try being more elusive - I've found that diving in , making a quick bite or two, then escaping to the opposite wall and climbing before the marine is able to track you is pretty effective. Its really not that hard to parasite then 2 bite a lone marine. And once you get celerity its even easier.
Thats for skulks - maybe they took a little hit with no upgrades - but look at other forms.
Lerks - unchanged other than the tracers, big deal - it hasn't changed my Lerk play at all because I was never a 'hide in a corner and sneak shots in" player - I like to be useful for my team and not just rack up kills.
Fades - are more powerful than ever! A SINGLE fade took me out in a single mini exo the other day! I could not believe it, first time that ever happened. I hit him a lot but he just escaped and regenerated twice and took me out. Yes I realize I should have had a welder with me but the point is that has never happened to me and this fade was good but not pro. His mobility seems a bit faster and his swipe seems to do a lot more damage.
Gorge - obviously got some good buffs recently
So you can't very well say all early game aliens are nerfed (ok Fade is mid game so what). Sure skulks took a hit but I'm not seeing a big difference in win / loss ratios.
Some people mistake balance for noobing-up a game.
Aliens won 50% of the 12 games on the server I was on. Public server and there was all sorts of skill ranges present.
I'd like you try to organize a 15-20 man team regularly. Dare I use WoW as evidence that 40 man raids were difficult to consistently do without a roster of 40 and then back ups of ~40. Translate that to NS and now we'd need rosters of like 25-30 people. We'd field 2 teams out of NA and a couple handfuls out of EU. How is that helpful?
I, personally, really didn't have glaring problems with the skulk in the newest patch. I think that of the ones whining, they are trying to use the skulk in the wrong way. Like a hammer for a screw. It could work, but its not the most effective approach.
Secondly, Lerk perching while shooting was quite possibly the dumbest thing you could do, for example:
Joe Lerk, "Eat these spikes human scum."
Johnny Marine, "God damn these are annoying where is that piece of...there he is"
TAT TAT TAT.
Johnny Marine, "Now where was I."
What you should be doing is
Joe Lerk, "Ah, a mark. Lets feast" Wooosh, NOM NOM NOM.
Johnny Marine, "OH GAWD GET IT OFF" TAT TAT TAT.
Joe Lerk, "Delicious."
Maybe there's a middle between those two extremes ? And yes, needing teamwork for a 1v1 is extreme. I love playing Marines, this is awesome. But since the patch, I hate playing Aliens.
To illustrate the problem, I'll give you my average K/D before the patch as a Marine: 1/14. After the patch: 14/8. And the same goes for my Aliens ratios, went from average/good, to 2/10ish. My skill didn't change overnight as the patch went up. The patch drastically changed the 1v1 confrontations. And as hakenspite said, there's a problem with the design of Skulks vulnerable at distance, but STILL vulnerable at close range. They should have a definite advantage once there.
Have they been adjusted, yes.
Are they almost useless, absolutely untrue.
BTW, last time I played aliens was 236 patch mostly and a few times with 239. I play Marines otherwise exclusively. I think being an Alien now is easier for me because I am used to marine play... having to think before acting and really work as a team.