Though Fana disagreed with the conclusions of Scardy
I don't disagree with his conclusions. His stats are the most accurate for the tournament, whereas mine are probably more accurate for the actual balance state since they include more matches. Both show an advantage for the marines, but there are many ways to explain that without it necessarily meaning that the marines are horribly OP in this patch, some of which have already been suggested in this thread.
Peripheral point: Hg beat Arc when they are marines. Arc beat Hg when they are marines.
Arc beat Sauna as marines. Sauna beat Arc as marines.
How about we put it another way? Arc only ever lost when they were aliens...And three times, was it?
We lost two alien rounds. The one against hg was purely a goof from our side, we completely messed up and would've lost that no matter what patch it was played on. We lost the Saunamen game due to horrible performance from our fades, who all died repeatedly, giving sauna ample time to take back control even though we had a solid lead during the early to mid stages of the game. Fades weren't changed at all this patch, so that doesn't have anything to do with it either.
2) Saunamen won 3 of their 3 marine rounds.
Nexzil won 4 of their 4 marine rounds.
A combination of poorly thought through rules, ping differences and team peculiarities combined to make this happen, unfortunately. Consider this: Saunamen's marine play is very strong, but their alien play is comparatively weak. They are basically a lot better at playing marines than aliens. Every round was played with marines having the ping advantage, further exacerbating sauna's weak and strong points. No surprise then, that it was seven marine wins (I actually said "this is going to be endless marine ties" on our teamspeak when I heard sauna were playing nexzil in the semi). None of this indicates that this patch is marine favored, although the clear alien bias from the previous patch might've allowed for some alien wins.
You know Fana, we won't tolerate your face around if you lose this. Oldschool NS1 players would turn in their graves. MAAAAAAD would be unbanned and released. Knife would be erased from NS1 history and replaced with Sproggalots.
Europe never lost against US. Last time something like that happened was when mr Eddie Irvine with his team we-are-the-chaaaampions-best-team-ever-in-ns got dominated.
And don't come back around talking about ns_caged OR ns_lost for that matter..
ps. this should Knife vs Terror so we could settle this best ns team for rest of history in everything. I'm sure mebs from 1 to 427 agree with me.
EU - gorgerushing before gorgerushes even existed. Those matches are a classic - someone should make some videos with those... Hmmmmm i might have found something to do.
blindJoin Date: 2010-04-17Member: 71437Members, Squad Five Gold
Surely the organisation wasn't perfect which I have to respond for. Basically all fears some admins had (2nd group stage tie breakers - we even had a triple way tie, possible replays and ping issues regarding the toss rules) came true all at the same time. Nevertheless we decided to put in those round robin rounds to avoid Best Of X games in a single elimination format as much as possible and went with the chance this could happen for the sake of fairer results in a $7,300 prize pool cup. We definitely learned from this and will improve the quality of organisation on further events.
However, I think this weekend was a blast. There were so many exciting games, about 2,400 viewers on the main stream channel at peak and some upsets involved. I thank everyone for making this possible and hope the finals in april will be the best event the NS2 scene (and all stream viewers who don't play NS2) has ever seen.
Woke up, got the office and still can't believe NA vs EU is happening. AWMAHGERDZ SO EXCITED
Don't lie Hugh, you're not getting paid for the next 6 months now you have to fly nexzil to cologne.
Well done to both teams,
I agree with scrajm. Judging on new changes to skulk people were caught out and due to skulks not being able to maintain map control against great shooters by the time lerks, fades were even out on the field it was generally GG. This is was evident in nxzl vs saunamen game. I think by the time we see archaea face off with nexzil in april we will see a alien op game status return. I suggest a nerf to tane's tracking abilities. You sir are a beast.
Anyway trolling aside, I think this even will be really nice. Good luck to both teams. Props to UWE and ENSL crew for organizing this. Let's hope the event will be successful.
Making any assumptions about balance shortly after such a huge patch is an idea some may deem not very wise.
Anyone remember how in Starcraft 2 Terran were crushed by Zerg _all the time_ and literally did not know how to deal with infestors? Remember how one day MKP came along with his crazy splitting of marines and changed the whole Terran-Zerg play? Suddenly Terran, who lost pretty much every match in the pro leagues for weeks, were called "OP" because Zerg had no idea how to deal effectively with splitting marines. Blizzard did not patch anything, it was the players who had to figure out how to win the game and they did. And remember the climate on the forums at that time? It was much worse than what you can read here.
I humbly suggest to play the game and try to figure out all those new entities we now have, instead of spending time talking about a "balance" that none of use currently have figured out. It took the top players of SC2 years to figure out the game properly (if you count out some of the prodigies) and I believe NS2 to be of a complexity that takes at least a few months to figure out after huge gameplay changes like Gorgeous.
I hope this does not spark another wave of anger, I just wanted to point something out because it seemed to me that some are in dire need of perspective.
Thanks for reading.
Comments
We lost two alien rounds. The one against hg was purely a goof from our side, we completely messed up and would've lost that no matter what patch it was played on. We lost the Saunamen game due to horrible performance from our fades, who all died repeatedly, giving sauna ample time to take back control even though we had a solid lead during the early to mid stages of the game. Fades weren't changed at all this patch, so that doesn't have anything to do with it either.
A combination of poorly thought through rules, ping differences and team peculiarities combined to make this happen, unfortunately. Consider this: Saunamen's marine play is very strong, but their alien play is comparatively weak. They are basically a lot better at playing marines than aliens. Every round was played with marines having the ping advantage, further exacerbating sauna's weak and strong points. No surprise then, that it was seven marine wins (I actually said "this is going to be endless marine ties" on our teamspeak when I heard sauna were playing nexzil in the semi). None of this indicates that this patch is marine favored, although the clear alien bias from the previous patch might've allowed for some alien wins.
Awesome. Seeing Bitey run circles in the readroom while yelling "Wasabiiiii" was definitely the high point of this tournament.
Anyway, looking forward to the intercontinental showdown. Previous final in Cologne was brilliant to watch.
- Unknown Developer, 2003, Team Europe vs USA
Bring back the cross-continental dick-swinging:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/34462/x&pid=460216&mode=threaded&start=
You know Fana, we won't tolerate your face around if you lose this. Oldschool NS1 players would turn in their graves. MAAAAAAD would be unbanned and released. Knife would be erased from NS1 history and replaced with Sproggalots.
Europe never lost against US. Last time something like that happened was when mr Eddie Irvine with his team we-are-the-chaaaampions-best-team-ever-in-ns got dominated.
And don't come back around talking about ns_caged OR ns_lost for that matter..
ps. this should Knife vs Terror so we could settle this best ns team for rest of history in everything. I'm sure mebs from 1 to 427 agree with me.
However, I think this weekend was a blast. There were so many exciting games, about 2,400 viewers on the main stream channel at peak and some upsets involved. I thank everyone for making this possible and hope the finals in april will be the best event the NS2 scene (and all stream viewers who don't play NS2) has ever seen.
Don't lie Hugh, you're not getting paid for the next 6 months now you have to fly nexzil to cologne.
Well done to both teams,
I agree with scrajm. Judging on new changes to skulk people were caught out and due to skulks not being able to maintain map control against great shooters by the time lerks, fades were even out on the field it was generally GG. This is was evident in nxzl vs saunamen game. I think by the time we see archaea face off with nexzil in april we will see a alien op game status return. I suggest a nerf to tane's tracking abilities. You sir are a beast.
Anyone remember how in Starcraft 2 Terran were crushed by Zerg _all the time_ and literally did not know how to deal with infestors? Remember how one day MKP came along with his crazy splitting of marines and changed the whole Terran-Zerg play? Suddenly Terran, who lost pretty much every match in the pro leagues for weeks, were called "OP" because Zerg had no idea how to deal effectively with splitting marines. Blizzard did not patch anything, it was the players who had to figure out how to win the game and they did. And remember the climate on the forums at that time? It was much worse than what you can read here.
I humbly suggest to play the game and try to figure out all those new entities we now have, instead of spending time talking about a "balance" that none of use currently have figured out. It took the top players of SC2 years to figure out the game properly (if you count out some of the prodigies) and I believe NS2 to be of a complexity that takes at least a few months to figure out after huge gameplay changes like Gorgeous.
I hope this does not spark another wave of anger, I just wanted to point something out because it seemed to me that some are in dire need of perspective.
Thanks for reading.
Pretty much. If I suddenly disappear from unknownworlds.com/about it will be because of my tournament largesse...
Or, if you don't have one you can ask Hugh personally, as he said in this comment http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2088632/#Comment_2088632