ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Just because things are in the game doesn't necessarily mean they are good. Celerity woosh was in the game and where did that go? Shouldn't we have just dealt with it ?
Fappuchino and res would force atmospherics and rich infestation if they had the chance. Clearly the spirit of Imbalanxd still lives with us.
Casual players have a different mindset and don't care as much as they realize it is just a feature of the game and deal with it. Just like competitive players need to learn to deal with it.
So if casual players don't really care either way, but a large segment of the community doesn't like it, then why not reassess whether it is actually needed or wanted in the first place?
Essentially I believe you are correct in saying casual players don't care as much and as such they will accept any mechanic the devs offer. If spit jizz and all this visual obstruction did not exist in the game there would not be a single forum post from a casual player asking for spit jizz, cyst rupture, jetpack smoke etc because they would just accept that is how the game is. Moreover, if casual players leave the game because of performance (immersion contributing to this in a major way) and competitive players wont play because of immersion then for whom exactly is all this stuff?
There is no reason why we should be blinded by getting hit by spit on the knee for an example. If it would be possible, you could implement a headshot detection, and if it's a headshot - do the blinding. It would be much more difficult to pull off and makes sense?
If that's not something to waste time on implementing, remove it completely.
i like the blinding effect. Its something different and unique.
They could make it less opaque at first and then have a stacking effect for additional hits.
I think a compromise we can agree on is definately tweaking it to blind only when headshots
I'm going to have to back up the OP here, for a number of reasons.
First of all, I'm not a fan of effects that cause a person to 'lose control' or their character. Be it loss of vision from spit/bile, or loss of movement from stomp etc, the bottom line is that these effects just aren't fun. This is precisely why devour was removed, since sitting around in the gut of an Onos while you twiddle your thumbs and wait to die just wasn't any fun. Let people fight. If a mechanic is needed for sake of 'balance' then there are plenty of ways to do it without taking away player control.
Secondly, my other objection to the blind effect on spit is by nature of the weapon. There is a reason stomp is a hive three upgrade. Given the nature of the effect, it would be overpowered for it to be a 'stock' Onos weapon. With spit, if it was a hive 2 or 3 upgrade, a case could be made for it since it would be a later game weapon that would come with a cost. In the case of spit, Gorges get this weapon from the very start.
Thirdly, a case could still be made for spit causing blind if spit damage was weak and the blind effect was primarily to allow the gorge a chance to get away. However, even on this point, it assumes the Gorge is always alone. Since that is not always the case, it too raises issues over its use.
Lastly, the question begs to be asked, why does the Gorge need *TWO* blinding effects. While the bile bomb blind may only impact EXOs, is still begs the question why it needs this effect.
The best counter is to immediately drop all your weapons, sprint as fast as you can and hope the skulks don't have celerity so they end up chasing you around until backup comes.
I don't mind the lerk spores, I think that's a good feature that makes them fill their role as support well.
Umbra is bad because you can physically feel your computer start dying when it's used in game. Maybe they could change umbra, so that any unit under the effect of it just gets tinted yellow, or you have the option to change it to that.
Enzyme is distracting mainly because it's a surprise most of the time it happens. :P Again you could have an option to just make the aliens under it's effect tint red instead of the sparkle cloud that happens.
Gorge spit blinding you I don't like either. The marines only defence is being able to kill aliens before they kill you. If you get hit by a gorge and a skulk is around you are dead generally. It's not like spores where you can re-position.
For a game which is having trouble with player retention, I wouldn't be surprised to see mechanics like these go by the wayside to protect the future of the game. New players pay the bills. Frustrating (typically crowd control) mechanics aren't a big hit with new players. This cycle happens in most games, and I expect it to happen to some degree in this one.
Oh no, spit blinds you (kind of, not really), better remove silence from the game too.
There is no place for crowd control effects in a competitive FPS game.
NS2 is not a competitive FPS game only...... as with most games, the largest playerbase is the casual players. It is the reason why over the years games have removed features and systems that have catered toward the casuals.
It makes it all the more incredibly difficult to fight groups of skulks or other lifeforms when you're just being slapped in the face with the blinding effect.
Combine that with this game's clusterf*** of other blinding effects and visual atrocities and it's just impossible to track anything half the time with your brain completely mindf***ed by all the effects and green/orange mess in your face.
Well actually, all you see is shit.
Those effect add to immersion and help the alien team. Most aliens have to close the distance to do damage. Those "visual atrocities" help them get into range. If you don't like it, get into a better position. Do you complain about smoke grenades in other games? Competitive players complaining over things they can move out of, prepare for, and even counter?
Gorge spit looks like an escape tool. A few direct hits and now the gorge can waddle away without being followed. A few updates and skilled players have turned it into an assaulting weapon. It can be tweaked so it's not so strong; like it already has.
I'm going to have to back up the OP here, for a number of reasons.
First of all, I'm not a fan of effects that cause a person to 'lose control' or their character. Be it loss of vision from spit/bile, or loss of movement from stomp etc, the bottom line is that these effects just aren't fun. This is precisely why devour was removed, since sitting around in the gut of an Onos while you twiddle your thumbs and wait to die just wasn't any fun. Let people fight. If a mechanic is needed for sake of 'balance' then there are plenty of ways to do it without taking away player control.
Secondly, my other objection to the blind effect on spit is by nature of the weapon. There is a reason stomp is a hive three upgrade. Given the nature of the effect, it would be overpowered for it to be a 'stock' Onos weapon. With spit, if it was a hive 2 or 3 upgrade, a case could be made for it since it would be a later game weapon that would come with a cost. In the case of spit, Gorges get this weapon from the very start.
Thirdly, a case could still be made for spit causing blind if spit damage was weak and the blind effect was primarily to allow the gorge a chance to get away. However, even on this point, it assumes the Gorge is always alone. Since that is not always the case, it too raises issues over its use.
Lastly, the question begs to be asked, why does the Gorge need *TWO* blinding effects. While the bile bomb blind may only impact EXOs, is still begs the question why it needs this effect.
First of all, you lose some sight, not control of the character. It's nothing like Stomp (player can't move for about 3 seconds) and nothing like Devour (player can't do anything for about 10-30 seconds). Spit, bile, gases, vortex- players can still move (to a better position) and fire their weapon.
Secondly, blind effect helps Gorges escape. At the moment, skilled players are taking advantage of recent updates. Before the updates, players were complaining about how they couldn't hit anything and how bad it was for Gorges.
Bile bomb doesn't block as much as spit, for an EXO. If an EXO dies solely because of bile bomb, bad EXO and bad team for not supporting that EXO. Bile bomb doesn't mean much for a marine; it doesn't really block marine sight and can't finish off a marine.
Sometimes it looks like people have a bad game, bad death, then decide somethings wrong with the game.
I don't think blinding/disorienting effects are inherently a bad thing. However the blind effect should be a choice and cost you time and a button press. Having it as a free passive along with your damaging ability is too much. This is why I don't think cyst explosion is a bad thing, but gorge spit blind is over the top.
Also, the performance hit we take when the spit on screen effect is displayed is rough (like gliss said).
Oh no, spit blinds you (kind of, not really), better remove silence from the game too.
There is no place for crowd control effects in a competitive FPS game.
NS2 is not a competitive FPS game only...... as with most games, the largest playerbase is the casual players. It is the reason why over the years games have removed features and systems that have not catered toward the casuals.
Then we need new rulesets for competitive play like TF2 has.
The blinding effect takes away player control and is therefore stupid and annoying. I'd rather see the speed and damage back up where it was post hit reg fix, with no blinding what so ever. That would be a much fairer fight and I would be happy in that scenario if I was marine or gorge.
It makes it all the more incredibly difficult to fight groups of skulks or other lifeforms when you're just being slapped in the face with the blinding effect.
Combine that with this game's clusterf*** of other blinding effects and visual atrocities and it's just impossible to track anything half the time with your brain completely mindf***ed by all the effects and green/orange mess in your face.
Try turning on your monitor. I have zero difficulty discerning targets. Gorge spit is much better now, and it's still incredibly easily to dodge.
If I can still track targets mid spit and I'm unfortunately colorblind and don't have the best of vision, then I think you can too. Sorry.
If I can still track targets mid spit and I'm unfortunately colorblind and don't have the best of vision, then I think you can too. Sorry.
PS: i am aware this thread is a trollthread
Sadly the majority of posters here are tracking straight liner pub skulks. So I'm going to say that your tracking ability is likely average or below average and you're shooting straight line poor movement skill skulks. I'm not even saying it's impossible to track during the blinding effect but it's way more difficult in addition to good skulk players are already difficult enough.
I'm not sure I can convey my argument and have it understood unless you first experienced a good skulk player while being blinded by anything that is currently in NS2. In pub games I guess those skulks are called hackers so in the rulebook of some people here those guys don't count anyways.
This is a game of aim vs. movement. Not aim vs. HOWMANYDUMBEFFECTSCANWETHROWINTHISGUYSFACE.
First of all, I'm not a fan of effects that cause a person to 'lose control' or their character. Be it loss of vision from spit/bile, or loss of movement from stomp etc, the bottom line is that these effects just aren't fun. This is precisely why devour was removed, since sitting around in the gut of an Onos while you twiddle your thumbs and wait to die just wasn't any fun. Let people fight.
First of all, you lose some sight, not control of the character.
You DO lose control of your character since you can no longer see. When you can't see you can't control your character. This isn't World of Warcraft, we don't need crowd control in an FPS.
Secondly, blind effect helps Gorges escape. At the moment, skilled players are taking advantage of recent updates. Before the updates, players were complaining about how they couldn't hit anything and how bad it was for Gorges.
So can I assume you'll be OK dropping the damage down to 10? Or change it into a vortex like effect where - when blinded - the marine receives no damage.
Justify the blind effect. What is the point of it? If it is a mechanic to allow the gorge to escape then the gorge shouldn't be able to 'exploit' the mechanic to get kills when he's supposed to be belly-sliding away. The problem is that no one uses this effect in the way you suggest. Gorges don't use it to escape, they use it for kills. If they want to use spit for kills, then let them do it without a blind opponent.
If I can still track targets mid spit and I'm unfortunately colorblind and don't have the best of vision, then I think you can too. Sorry.
PS: i am aware this thread is a trollthread
Sadly the majority of posters here are tracking straight liner pub skulks. So I'm going to say that your tracking ability is likely average or below average and you're shooting straight line poor movement skill skulks. I'm not even saying it's impossible to track during the blinding effect but it's way more difficult in addition to good skulk players are already difficult enough.
I'm not sure I can convey my argument and have it understood unless you first experienced a good skulk player while being blinded by anything that is currently in NS2. In pub games I guess those skulks are called hackers so in the rulebook of some people here those guys don't count anyways.
This is a game of aim vs. movement. Not aim vs. HOWMANYDUMBEFFECTSCANWETHROWINTHISGUYSFACE.
"You're bad!"
hahaha. Ironic coming from someone crying about gorge spit. Sounds like someones just angry.
FYI, using the word "pub" like it's a slur doesn't make you look better. Is that a lesson you teach in your education on NS program?
All of the late greats of NS1 are laughing at you. Adapt or die.
start moving and hopping, spit has travel time.
All marines I spit shoot have the big mistake of standing still.
Kinda this, honestly. Not only can I not hit anything with spit, but I also don't seem to be able to be hit with it either.
The travel time on it is really quite bad, I don't know how you're supposed to hit moving marines with it, and the gorges I've come across seem to have the same issue.
It's ok if you're supporting a big attack, but it's very hit or miss, and mostly miss.
Anyone saying that their performance takes a big hit because of the spit overlay needs to get a freaking job and buy a proper PC to play this game. Don't expect to play todays games on a PC that does not meet the requirements or is simply a piece of shite
I don't have a super rig by any means but I have no drop in performance with all settings on highest.
I just move to the side and avoid getting hit. If you are unaware of your surroundings then you deserve to be hit. It's part of the game and should not be taken out. There is nothing wrong with it.
I'm going to have to back up the OP here, for a number of reasons.
First of all, I'm not a fan of effects that cause a person to 'lose control' or their character. Be it loss of vision from spit/bile, or loss of movement from stomp etc, the bottom line is that these effects just aren't fun.
hahaha. Ironic coming from someone crying about gorge spit. Sounds like someones just angry.
FYI, using the word "pub" like it's a slur doesn't make you look better. Is that a lesson you teach in your education on NS program?
All of the late greats of NS1 are laughing at you. Adapt or die.
I'm not actually crying. It's just pointing out a silly mechanic that doesn't belong in the game. As you can see I put a humorous picture. It was aimed to be a somewhat "fun" discussion on gorge spit and why it's silly to blind people.
Everyone I know that was actually good at NS1 isn't laughing. They're in agreement. Idk what world you live in.
It's not a slur. It's just fact. What you experience in a pub isn't high level play typically. You started the "you're bad!" tone when you said you have an easy time tracking while blind with 50% of your screen green and that means everyone else should be able to as well. I personally don't have a problem at all against public players while being blinded but it gets pretty frustrating against skulks with great movement.
Comments
Fappuchino and res would force atmospherics and rich infestation if they had the chance. Clearly the spirit of Imbalanxd still lives with us.
So if casual players don't really care either way, but a large segment of the community doesn't like it, then why not reassess whether it is actually needed or wanted in the first place?
Essentially I believe you are correct in saying casual players don't care as much and as such they will accept any mechanic the devs offer. If spit jizz and all this visual obstruction did not exist in the game there would not be a single forum post from a casual player asking for spit jizz, cyst rupture, jetpack smoke etc because they would just accept that is how the game is. Moreover, if casual players leave the game because of performance (immersion contributing to this in a major way) and competitive players wont play because of immersion then for whom exactly is all this stuff?
Don't we want more people to play this game ?
If that's not something to waste time on implementing, remove it completely.
They could make it less opaque at first and then have a stacking effect for additional hits.
I think a compromise we can agree on is definately tweaking it to blind only when headshots
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/122043
First of all, I'm not a fan of effects that cause a person to 'lose control' or their character. Be it loss of vision from spit/bile, or loss of movement from stomp etc, the bottom line is that these effects just aren't fun. This is precisely why devour was removed, since sitting around in the gut of an Onos while you twiddle your thumbs and wait to die just wasn't any fun. Let people fight. If a mechanic is needed for sake of 'balance' then there are plenty of ways to do it without taking away player control.
Secondly, my other objection to the blind effect on spit is by nature of the weapon. There is a reason stomp is a hive three upgrade. Given the nature of the effect, it would be overpowered for it to be a 'stock' Onos weapon. With spit, if it was a hive 2 or 3 upgrade, a case could be made for it since it would be a later game weapon that would come with a cost. In the case of spit, Gorges get this weapon from the very start.
Thirdly, a case could still be made for spit causing blind if spit damage was weak and the blind effect was primarily to allow the gorge a chance to get away. However, even on this point, it assumes the Gorge is always alone. Since that is not always the case, it too raises issues over its use.
Lastly, the question begs to be asked, why does the Gorge need *TWO* blinding effects. While the bile bomb blind may only impact EXOs, is still begs the question why it needs this effect.
I don't mind the lerk spores, I think that's a good feature that makes them fill their role as support well.
Umbra is bad because you can physically feel your computer start dying when it's used in game. Maybe they could change umbra, so that any unit under the effect of it just gets tinted yellow, or you have the option to change it to that.
Enzyme is distracting mainly because it's a surprise most of the time it happens. :P Again you could have an option to just make the aliens under it's effect tint red instead of the sparkle cloud that happens.
Gorge spit blinding you I don't like either. The marines only defence is being able to kill aliens before they kill you. If you get hit by a gorge and a skulk is around you are dead generally. It's not like spores where you can re-position.
There is no place for crowd control effects in a competitive FPS game.
NS2 is not a competitive FPS game only...... as with most games, the largest playerbase is the casual players. It is the reason why over the years games have removed features and systems that have catered toward the casuals.
Well actually, all you see is shit.
Those effect add to immersion and help the alien team. Most aliens have to close the distance to do damage. Those "visual atrocities" help them get into range. If you don't like it, get into a better position. Do you complain about smoke grenades in other games? Competitive players complaining over things they can move out of, prepare for, and even counter?
Gorge spit looks like an escape tool. A few direct hits and now the gorge can waddle away without being followed. A few updates and skilled players have turned it into an assaulting weapon. It can be tweaked so it's not so strong; like it already has.
Should gorges just die whenever they are spotted by a marine?
First of all, you lose some sight, not control of the character. It's nothing like Stomp (player can't move for about 3 seconds) and nothing like Devour (player can't do anything for about 10-30 seconds). Spit, bile, gases, vortex- players can still move (to a better position) and fire their weapon.
Secondly, blind effect helps Gorges escape. At the moment, skilled players are taking advantage of recent updates. Before the updates, players were complaining about how they couldn't hit anything and how bad it was for Gorges.
Bile bomb doesn't block as much as spit, for an EXO. If an EXO dies solely because of bile bomb, bad EXO and bad team for not supporting that EXO. Bile bomb doesn't mean much for a marine; it doesn't really block marine sight and can't finish off a marine.
Sometimes it looks like people have a bad game, bad death, then decide somethings wrong with the game.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/122043/ns2-is-obsessed-with-obscuring-vision/p1
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/125188/natural-immersion-2/p1
Also, the performance hit we take when the spit on screen effect is displayed is rough (like gliss said).
Then we need new rulesets for competitive play like TF2 has.
Everyone is happy.
Try turning on your monitor. I have zero difficulty discerning targets. Gorge spit is much better now, and it's still incredibly easily to dodge.
If I can still track targets mid spit and I'm unfortunately colorblind and don't have the best of vision, then I think you can too. Sorry.
PS: i am aware this thread is a trollthread
Sadly the majority of posters here are tracking straight liner pub skulks. So I'm going to say that your tracking ability is likely average or below average and you're shooting straight line poor movement skill skulks. I'm not even saying it's impossible to track during the blinding effect but it's way more difficult in addition to good skulk players are already difficult enough.
I'm not sure I can convey my argument and have it understood unless you first experienced a good skulk player while being blinded by anything that is currently in NS2. In pub games I guess those skulks are called hackers so in the rulebook of some people here those guys don't count anyways.
This is a game of aim vs. movement. Not aim vs. HOWMANYDUMBEFFECTSCANWETHROWINTHISGUYSFACE.
So can I assume you'll be OK dropping the damage down to 10? Or change it into a vortex like effect where - when blinded - the marine receives no damage.
Justify the blind effect. What is the point of it? If it is a mechanic to allow the gorge to escape then the gorge shouldn't be able to 'exploit' the mechanic to get kills when he's supposed to be belly-sliding away. The problem is that no one uses this effect in the way you suggest. Gorges don't use it to escape, they use it for kills. If they want to use spit for kills, then let them do it without a blind opponent.
My point stands.
"You're bad!"
hahaha. Ironic coming from someone crying about gorge spit. Sounds like someones just angry.
FYI, using the word "pub" like it's a slur doesn't make you look better. Is that a lesson you teach in your education on NS program?
All of the late greats of NS1 are laughing at you. Adapt or die.
Kinda this, honestly. Not only can I not hit anything with spit, but I also don't seem to be able to be hit with it either.
The travel time on it is really quite bad, I don't know how you're supposed to hit moving marines with it, and the gorges I've come across seem to have the same issue.
It's ok if you're supporting a big attack, but it's very hit or miss, and mostly miss.
I don't have a super rig by any means but I have no drop in performance with all settings on highest.
intel i7 2600
16 gigs ram
geforce gtx 570
1280 ram
480 cuda cores
I just move to the side and avoid getting hit. If you are unaware of your surroundings then you deserve to be hit. It's part of the game and should not be taken out. There is nothing wrong with it.
As time goes on, you start making more sense.
I'm not actually crying. It's just pointing out a silly mechanic that doesn't belong in the game. As you can see I put a humorous picture. It was aimed to be a somewhat "fun" discussion on gorge spit and why it's silly to blind people.
Everyone I know that was actually good at NS1 isn't laughing. They're in agreement. Idk what world you live in.
It's not a slur. It's just fact. What you experience in a pub isn't high level play typically. You started the "you're bad!" tone when you said you have an easy time tracking while blind with 50% of your screen green and that means everyone else should be able to as well. I personally don't have a problem at all against public players while being blinded but it gets pretty frustrating against skulks with great movement.