<!--quoteo(post=2052432:date=Dec 28 2012, 11:57 AM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly. Aliens need to be good to beat that marine team. If they are both ###### marines win -> if other team needs skill to stand on even ground to noob team it's called op. exos > onos. And all the gorge skulk harass is easily stopped by couple of jetpackers with flamethrowers and gls.
"I dont see why Onos need a beacon theyre faster than marines without jetpack." Even if they are "fast", hive will be most likely down before onos arrives if there is a rush. Hives go down incredibly fast with concentrated fire even without exos. u shouldnt be comparing marine and onos speed, u should be just thinking does hive hp go down faster than onos runs to hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bull###### right now aliens win 66% of games. Competitive aswell as Public. Aliens are overall easier to play. Marines need to be organized from minute 1 to even hold their positions while you can easymode win alien games with everyone doing whatever he wants. Also noob skulks own noob marines. As easy as that. ######marines wont even be able to get exos up. Also all your scenarios are about a bunch of marines or exos suddenly appearing infront of a hive. That only works if the Khamm is braindead and dont use drifters, aswell as no other defensive structures like whips. Thats more unlikely to happen then 1 single sneaky gorge destroying powernode of a marine base.
<!--quoteo(post=2052366:date=Dec 28 2012, 09:31 AM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 09:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->U are talking about strategies etc but why does one team need have good strategies to stand ground against a team walking and pressing mouse1 and 2?
Basetrade win scenario is pure speculation too, if aliens need to do that marines have a big head start. and if aliens are on 2 hive theres just 1 more to go pretty much and aliens need to kill 2-3cc before marines take down 1 more hive. And if marines want to be smart they can build new cc's to old hive spots while they are taking down hives.
"If marines got 5 Exos they lost the game. Aliens dont need to fight them." There can still be 6+1 marines in bases with beacon, focusfiring onoses pretty fast. Yes i play 12v12 usually. If u say this game isn't balanced on 12v12, it should be because that's what the huge majority of ppl want to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the team pressuring mouse 1 and 2 needed to play way more organized to be even able to press button 1 and 2. While for Aliens its enough to stupid run around, chewing extractors/marines and waiting until they got enough pres. Also trash exos are pretty worthless, i have seen lone skulks taking down awfull dual minigun exos while i didnt see a lone marine killing an Onos so far. They can build the CC on dropped hive, but they lose 3 bases for 1. Only thing Aliens need to do after that is A take down the Exo train, B dont let the exo train going out of their base because they will lose it otherwise. However game isnt winnable for marines when they lost all their bases, while aliens can easy afford to lose 1 hive. Thats why you wont ever see Exo trains in competitive play.
Yes 12v12 is bull######, it favors marines to hard. 12v12 isnt representative, its more like deathmatch then everything else. Majority? I see 10x more 8v8 and 10v10 servers full then 12v12 tbh. 8v8 is actually most enjoyable playermode for non competitve gaming, but well im EU. But even in 12v12 Aliens are dominating, because skulks ###### up marine economy in a majority of games. 6+1 Marines wont also be enough to take down a rush of 6 Onos. So its the same as with 8v8 and 10v10 just with higher numbers.
Also basetrade scenario works to 100% against exo trains, no matter how large the exo train is. I have commanded enough games to tell that. I always laugh if i see an Exo train, its a freewin. Youre just describing awfull players vs even more awfull players. Like rookie 12v12 server or something. Its hard to find people on nonrookie servers who would let such stupid things happen
<!--quoteo(post=2052619:date=Dec 29 2012, 03:47 AM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Dec 29 2012, 03:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am amazed by this conversation. VittuLima, did you ever sit in an exo yourself and faced an onos?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
<!--quoteo(post=2052509:date=Dec 29 2012, 12:06 AM:name=WitchcraftTheEvertrolling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WitchcraftTheEvertrolling @ Dec 29 2012, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bull###### right now aliens win 66% of games. Competitive aswell as Public. Aliens are overall easier to play. Marines need to be organized from minute 1 to even hold their positions while you can easymode win alien games with everyone doing whatever he wants. Also noob skulks own noob marines. As easy as that. ######marines wont even be able to get exos up. Also all your scenarios are about a bunch of marines or exos suddenly appearing infront of a hive. That only works if the Khamm is braindead and dont use drifters, aswell as no other defensive structures like whips. Thats more unlikely to happen then 1 single sneaky gorge destroying powernode of a marine base.
Because the team pressuring mouse 1 and 2 needed to play way more organized to be even able to press button 1 and 2. While for Aliens its enough to stupid run around, chewing extractors/marines and waiting until they got enough pres. Also trash exos are pretty worthless, i have seen lone skulks taking down awfull dual minigun exos while i didnt see a lone marine killing an Onos so far. They can build the CC on dropped hive, but they lose 3 bases for 1. Only thing Aliens need to do after that is A take down the Exo train, B dont let the exo train going out of their base because they will lose it otherwise. However game isnt winnable for marines when they lost all their bases, while aliens can easy afford to lose 1 hive. Thats why you wont ever see Exo trains in competitive play.
Yes 12v12 is bull######, it favors marines to hard. 12v12 isnt representative, its more like deathmatch then everything else. Majority? I see 10x more 8v8 and 10v10 servers full then 12v12 tbh. 8v8 is actually most enjoyable playermode for non competitve gaming, but well im EU. But even in 12v12 Aliens are dominating, because skulks ###### up marine economy in a majority of games. 6+1 Marines wont also be enough to take down a rush of 6 Onos. So its the same as with 8v8 and 10v10 just with higher numbers.
Also basetrade scenario works to 100% against exo trains, no matter how large the exo train is. I have commanded enough games to tell that. I always laugh if i see an Exo train, its a freewin. Youre just describing awfull players vs even more awfull players. Like rookie 12v12 server or something. Its hard to find people on nonrookie servers who would let such stupid things happen<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wrong 24 player servers are always full and small servers are always empty. I often need to wait 10-20min to get into 24 player server. Marines are winning more games than aliens in public but i don't know about competitive.
<!--quoteo(post=2052649:date=Dec 28 2012, 07:00 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052649"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines are winning more games than aliens in public but i don't know about competitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">Are they really?</a>
Marines have had a higher win rate than Aliens in like three builds. Total. Aliens almost always have a 60-65% win rate.
<!--quoteo(post=2052649:date=Dec 28 2012, 07:00 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052649"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are wrong 24 player servers are always full and small servers are always empty. I often need to wait 10-20min to get into 24 player server. Marines are winning more games than aliens in public but i don't know about competitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Take a look at this <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a>. 40% isnt winning more in public. We dont need to argue this anymore statistics > subjective impressions.
really? Lets do i check i logg in and lets see where people are playing. Unfortunately i cant take a Screen because its buggin for some reason but i will count the servers for you.
2x full 24 players. 4x full 20 players. 3x full 18 players.
Also we have got 9 servers who arent full right now, so everything between 1v1 till 9v9. If you count now you will notice that the 12v12 servers are a minotiry. Just because your favourite servers is always full doesnt mean it represents the majority. Rather a minority, because palying 12v12 had nothing to do with NS2. This game gets ridiculous at any numbers > 10v10. Its simple deathmatch without strategy and awfull players who dont want to play the game properly and prefer roll with their face on their keyboard. Nothing wrong with that, i like to do it from time to time aswell. But dont try to make balance statements if you dont know anything different then this perversion.
<!--quoteo(post=2052656:date=Dec 29 2012, 05:31 AM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Dec 29 2012, 05:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">Are they really?</a>
Marines have had a higher win rate than Aliens in like three builds. Total. Aliens almost always have a 60-65% win rate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those "statistics" are crap, it has been discussed in another thread already. Small sample sizes from couple of dead servers. 95% of the servers using those "stats" are completely dead. Me counting marine wins and losses in my head for couple of days would be more reliable "stats".
<!--quoteo(post=2052661:date=Dec 28 2012, 07:45 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those "statistics" are crap, it has been discussed in another thread already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has been called "crap" by people who dont learned maths properly. Thats why they dont get that you dont need 100% of all servers to have an accurate statement.
<!--quoteo(post=2052661:date=Dec 28 2012, 07:45 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Me counting marine wins and losses in my head for couple of days would be more reliable "stats<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok do that, in all game modes 100 games. Lets go
And after you have done that you explain to me why ur statistics are more reliable then thisones. Also a mathematical proof please.
<!--quoteo(post=2052661:date=Dec 29 2012, 12:45 AM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 29 2012, 12:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens almost always have a 60-65% win rate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Those "statistics" are crap, it has been discussed in another thread already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Really? You do realize that the developers themselves have admitted the aliens have a 60/40 win rate, right?
Let me quote the developers, and then please tell us how their statistics are 'crap' too. <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Unknown Worlds Entertainment)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unknown Worlds Entertainment)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When NS2 launched, first 100,000 games displayed a remarkable win loss ratio: 49% Marine wins, 51% alien wins.
This balance began to swing towards the aliens after the first week, without us making any changes to the game. This is a fascinating phenomenon in game balance: As the community gets better at the game, you become better at exploiting wrinkles in the fabric of its design. The discrepancy continued to widen to an unacceptable 40% marine wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So are their stats off too? Are everyone else's stats off? We're just all imagining it?
<!--quoteo(post=2052660:date=Dec 29 2012, 05:45 AM:name=WitchcraftTheEvertrolling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WitchcraftTheEvertrolling @ Dec 29 2012, 05:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Take a look at this <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a>. 40% isnt winning more in public. We dont need to argue this anymore statistics > subjective impressions.
really? Lets do i check i logg in and lets see where people are playing. Unfortunately i cant take a Screen because its buggin for some reason but i will count the servers for you.
2x full 24 players. 4x full 20 players. 3x full 18 players.
Also we have got 9 servers who arent full right now, so everything between 1v1 till 9v9. If you count now you will notice that the 12v12 servers are a minotiry. Just because your favourite servers is always full doesnt mean it represents the majority. Rather a minority, because palying 12v12 had nothing to do with NS2. This game gets ridiculous at any numbers > 10v10. Its simple deathmatch without strategy and awfull players who dont want to play the game properly and prefer roll with their face on their keyboard. Nothing wrong with that, i like to do it from time to time aswell. But dont try to make balance statements if you dont know anything different then this perversion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are u stupid or just cant use server list? i just launched ns and pinged the world, i saw dozens 24 and 20 player servers full and much less 16 player servers. Majority likes to play in as big server as possible, just deal with it, it was like that in NS1 too for years, it's nothing new jesus. I can too make statistics website and add some dead servers to it to get some "statistics" from couple of brasilian kids dueling on empty server btw.
And btw when the game performance gets better even more bigger servers start to appear, most small servers atm are 16 players max because they cant handle high player count.
<!--quoteo(post=2052665:date=Dec 29 2012, 05:54 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 29 2012, 05:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those "statistics" are crap, it has been discussed in another thread already.Really? You do realize that the developers themselves have admitted the aliens have a 60/40 win rate, right?
Let me quote the developers, and then please tell us how their statistics are 'crap' too. So are their stats off too? Are everyone else's stats off? We're just all imagining it?
Sorry, I disagree.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't said anything about developer statistics, i said that nsstats page is full of crap.
<!--quoteo(post=2052666:date=Dec 28 2012, 07:55 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are u stupid or just cant use server list? i just launched ns and pinged the world, i saw dozens 24 and 20 player servers full and much less 16 player servers. Majority likes to play in as big server as possible, just deal with it, it was like that in NS1 too for years, it's nothing new jesus. I can too make statistics website and add some dead servers to it to get some "statistics" from couple of brasilian kids dueling on empty server btw.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye i tapped in and saw that my uploading was a bit slow bugged. But its actually the same with higher numbers. 4x full 24 slots 5x 24 slot servers who arent full, 5x 10v10 full and like 20x 8v8. If you can count you will see what the majority is.
So competitive games, are brazilian kids dueling each other? I know you have absolutely an Idea what youre talking about. You =/= developers. Also i dont think you will manage to do that because u dont even seem to understand how statistics work and why.
<!--quoteo(post=2052671:date=Dec 29 2012, 06:02 AM:name=WitchcraftTheEvertrolling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WitchcraftTheEvertrolling @ Dec 29 2012, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ye i tapped in and saw that my uploading was a bit slow bugged. But its actually the same with higher numbers. 4x full 24 slots 5x 24 slot servers who arent full, 5x 10v10 full and like 20x 8v8. If you can count you will see what the majority is.
So competitive games, are brazilian kids dueling each other? I know you have absolutely an Idea what youre talking about. You =/= developers. Also i dont think you will manage to do that because u dont even seem to understand how statistics work and why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im seeing about 30-50 20+ players maxed and maybe 20 16 players. Maybe u need to call ur isp or reinstall NS2.
Jesus. that <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a> has still nothing to with developers. It's made by some random guys gathering "info" from couple of dead server.
<!--quoteo(post=2052673:date=Dec 28 2012, 08:08 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->im seeing about 30-50 20+ players maxed and maybe 20 16 players. Maybe u need to call ur isp or reinstall NS2.
Jesus. that <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a> has still nothing to with developers. It's made some random guys gathering "info" from couple of dead server.
Im really done with this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you NA? I am talking about EU whole time, so you might be right about NA idk. I mean with devs pretty much that theyre stating similar numbers as well ass all statistics I have ever seen so far.
Doesnt matter actually. Even if 90% of players would be playing 12v12, this mode is like a funmap in WC3. Fungame
<!--quoteo(post=2052674:date=Dec 29 2012, 06:10 AM:name=WitchcraftTheEvertrolling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WitchcraftTheEvertrolling @ Dec 29 2012, 06:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you NA? I am talking about EU whole time, so you might be right about NA idk. I mean with devs pretty much that theyre stating similar numbers as well ass all statistics I have ever seen so far.
Doesnt matter actually. Even if 90% of players would be playing 12v12, this mode is like a funmap in WC3. Fungame<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am EU, it doesn't matter where u are. I am pinging the whole world america australia eu russia china everything. U might have max ping turned on in filters.
So u need to play "seriously" to represent players? Aren't games supposed to be fun? Competitive players in any game are always minority.
<!--quoteo(post=2052680:date=Dec 28 2012, 08:17 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 08:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052680"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am EU, it doesn't matter where u are. I am pinging the whole world america australia eu russia china everything. U might have max ping turned on in filters.
So u need to play "seriously" to represent players? Aren't games supposed to be fun? Competitive players in any game are always minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye might be.
It is, but the "balance" should be discussed about the gamemode NS2 is designed for. Its 6v6 or max 8v8. You can play what you want even 100 vs 100. But its not representative if were talking about actual balance.
<!--quoteo(post=2052684:date=Dec 29 2012, 06:25 AM:name=WitchcraftTheEvertrolling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WitchcraftTheEvertrolling @ Dec 29 2012, 06:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ye might be.
It is, but the "balance" should be discussed about the gamemode NS2 is designed for. Its 6v6 or max 8v8. You can play what you want even 100 vs 100. But its not representative if were talking about actual balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imo game should be balanced for the majority of players not the minority but in ideal case both, like blizzard does pretty succesfully in starcrafts.
<!--quoteo(post=2052685:date=Dec 28 2012, 08:28 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imo game should be balanced for the majority of players not the minority but in ideal case both, like blizzard does pretty succesfully in starcrat 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont see why. The majority plays this game to chill out and dont gives a ###### about competition. Balance matter only for people who want to enjoy competitive aspect. Imo that will never be 12v12 players. I dont even know a single 12v12 player because everyone who wants to play this game seriously switched to lower numbers. Even former 12v12 players.
What exactly did Blizz manage? I didnt play SC2 but i hear lots of complains from players that there isnt an nonranked mod, game is completely rubbish if not played 1v1 and funmaps are just awfull compared to WC3. Also there is alot complaining from sinking numbers of players.
UWE have said "We would rather a fun game than a 50-50 win rate", this coupled with the noticing of win rates dropping simply from launch with no major balance changes (it coincided with a huge push from experienced players to go aliens as they are the weaker/less fun side to play). So stop complaining about win rates and focus on making the game fun for both sides.
People saying "oh but aliens win x%" is meaningless, both sides need to be FUN. An onos getting pwned by a single exo (been there an done it from both sides) let alone a double is not fun. Aliens for the most part are unfun and often you feel like your losing right up to the point that you win, this comes mostly from the lack of scaling on the alien sides base life-form the skulk.
<!--quoteo(post=2052668:date=Dec 29 2012, 12:58 AM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 29 2012, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052668"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't said anything about developer statistics, i said that nsstats page is full of crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Really? So why are their stats almost identical to the developer stats?
<!--quoteo(post=2052694:date=Dec 29 2012, 01:56 AM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Dec 29 2012, 01:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So stop complaining about win rates and focus on making the game fun for both sides. People saying "oh but aliens win x%" is meaningless, both sides need to be FUN.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It doesn't matter what side it is, if that side is playing a game they know they are going to lose, that isn't fun. While we don't need an exact 50/50 ratio. It has to be under +/- 5% or else people are gonna notice and it will impact their enjoyment of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2052696:date=Dec 29 2012, 04:16 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 29 2012, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't matter what side it is, if that side is playing a game they know they are going to lose, that isn't fun. While we don't need an exact 50/50 ratio. It has to be under +/- 5% or else people are gonna notice and it will impact their enjoyment of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does not need to be under any % to ensure both sides are fun to play,as they say "bullsh1t, lies & statistics"...often there is little between these 3. Saying less than 5% is balanced is ignoring too many variables such as player stacking, teams f4'ing because the comm is new, tards/griefers recycling bases (cant be done on alien side) or one of many other factors (spawn locations etc). The current state of affairs is also influenced by comms unable to play anything but a resource game and as such lose to camo 1st. Saying things need to be within x % is counter-intuitive when in a few months time peoplewill know how to counter this strat and a big swing will take place. Lets remember how things where just before retail...then with a bunch of people wanting to rambo as marines (coupled with experienced players going alien) we saw a swing of 10%.
Alien game play needs a lot to be desired as its often tedious mid to late game unless your a higher lifeform. The fact is that marines a heck of a lot more fun to play. You get weapons and armour upgrades so your base lifeform is stronger and harder to kill. Then you can get SG's, FT, GL's Exo or for 10 res you can fly around and be almost totally invincible with a JP.
For a 75 res investment the onos is about right though could do with some minor buffs (bone shield), compared to a dual exo however its laughably bad. This has nothing to do with win loss rates (as by the time an onos can hit the field the games often already decided) but rather the enjoyment level of playing each side.
<!--quoteo(post=2052721:date=Dec 28 2012, 10:48 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Dec 28 2012, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It does not need to be under any % to ensure both sides are fun to play,as they say "bullsh1t, lies & statistics"...often there is little between these 3. Saying less than 5% is balanced is ignoring too many variables such as player stacking, teams f4'ing because the comm is new, tards/griefers recycling bases (cant be done on alien side) or one of many other factors (spawn locations etc). The current state of affairs is also influenced by comms unable to play anything but a resource game and as such lose to camo 1st. Saying things need to be within x % is counter-intuitive when in a few months time peoplewill know how to counter this strat and a big swing will take place. Lets remember how things where just before retail...then with a bunch of people wanting to rambo as marines (coupled with experienced players going alien) we saw a swing of 10%.
Alien game play needs a lot to be desired as its often tedious mid to late game unless your a higher lifeform. The fact is that marines a heck of a lot more fun to play. You get weapons and armour upgrades so your base lifeform is stronger and harder to kill. Then you can get SG's, FT, GL's Exo or for 10 res you can fly around and be almost totally invincible with a JP.
For a 75 res investment the onos is about right though could do with some minor buffs (bone shield), compared to a dual exo however its laughably bad. This has nothing to do with win loss rates (as by the time an onos can hit the field the games often already decided) but rather the enjoyment level of playing each side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree tosome extent that Aliens need work. But i strongly disagree with onos needing a buff. This lifeform is just ridiculously overpowered the last thing its need is a buff. Who the ###### cares if an dualexo wins a 1v1 vs Onos. Exos are just overall far weaker then Onos because they stay and fall with support. Onos needs a nerf and other lifeforms need better scaling into lategame.
I'm pretty much in agreement with the fact that the Onos is a bit broken at the moment, though the most irritating thing with it is the really annoying Stomp. I mean you can knock out no less than four marines if they flock in front of you when you rush them, and then you just have to kill and repeat, etc. They have no means of recovering. I'd suggest returning to something similar to the NS1 stomp; a straight, narrow-ish line in front of the Onos, rather than the AOE thing we currently have in NS2. I think the Onos is a tad too fast too, but that may be just me. As for the exos, I think they are fine as they are, though I never take the regular one.
Also, ns2stats is a really cool website and clearly shows something's off, and no, these servers are clearly not dead since I recently played on one of them that was full the entire time.
<!--quoteo(post=2052694:date=Dec 28 2012, 09:56 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Dec 28 2012, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People saying "oh but aliens win x%" is meaningless, both sides need to be FUN.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is a race that feels doomed to lose from the word go be FUN?
<!--quoteo(post=2052721:date=Dec 29 2012, 03:48 AM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Dec 29 2012, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It does not need to be under any % to ensure both sides are fun to play,as they say "bullsh1t, lies & statistics"...often there is little between these 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think people are going to play a game with one winning 90% of the time? What's the point when you know the outcome. That just isn't fun. Maybe you think it's OK for one team to get rolled every game, but the rest of us want BALANCE with our fun. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter how much 'fun' a game mechanic is, knowing that you will always win/lose will suck the fun right out of a game.
<!--quoteo(post=2052694:date=Dec 28 2012, 11:56 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Dec 28 2012, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE have said "We would rather a fun game than a 50-50 win rate", this coupled with the noticing of win rates dropping simply from launch with no major balance changes (it coincided with a huge push from experienced players to go aliens as they are the weaker/less fun side to play). So stop complaining about win rates and focus on making the game fun for both sides.
People saying "oh but aliens win x%" is meaningless, both sides need to be FUN. An onos getting pwned by a single exo (been there an done it from both sides) let alone a double is not fun. Aliens for the most part are unfun and often you feel like your losing right up to the point that you win, this comes mostly from the lack of scaling on the alien sides base life-form the skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is today opposites day?
Aliens win more. (Due largely to the fact that players are inherently more prone to attack; and the attacking team wins NS2.) Veterans join marines when they want more challenge (which some of us consider more fun.) Onos tends to beat a regular Exo, as regular Exos don't really have amazing DPS (only Dual Exos have amazing DPS.)
Aliens win more. (Due largely to the fact that players are inherently more prone to attack; and the attacking team wins NS2.) Veterans join marines when they want more challenge (which some of us consider more fun.) Onos tends to beat a regular Exo, as regular Exos don't really have amazing DPS (only Dual Exos have amazing DPS.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's funny. When i want challenge i go aliens. When i join marines it really feels easy and i usually faceroll with 10-1 kill ratios just with lmg. As aliens u need fade or onos to do that or sometimes lerk if marines don't have the best aim, but often game is lost before those are out. U could say i'm somewhat veteran, i played NS1 for years.
<!--quoteo(post=2052920:date=Dec 30 2012, 04:08 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 30 2012, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think people are going to play a game with one winning 90% of the time? What's the point when you know the outcome. That just isn't fun. Maybe you think it's OK for one team to get rolled every game, but the rest of us want BALANCE with our fun. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter how much 'fun' a game mechanic is, knowing that you will always win/lose will suck the fun right out of a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> W:L ratios are too simplistic and are flawed if used as the only source of balance. UWE, rightly so, have chosen to also consider the "fun to play" element.
I, like VittuLima, find marines much easier to play and a much higher level of enjoyment with much less effort. This is confirmed by the myriad of posts in the lead up to going "retail" from people asking/begging veteran players to go alien so as to avoid a total alien noob stomping. Why? Because marines are easier to play, quicker to pick up and all round more fun to play. This led to the swing in stats with almost 0 balance changes as experienced aliens where taking on not only noob marines but noob marine comms. This is why UWE has persisted with little buffs to marines as they know that the fun factor in aliens is missing.
Aliens are less fun to play, sure its fun to pub stomp noob marines but play against an equally skilled marine team and playing aliens becomes terribly frustrating as you constantly die whilst perceptually barely inflicting much damage. This continues right up to the point you lose or that marines start recycling as you have somehow won (depriving you of any real amount of time feeling like your winning).
Win Loss ratios can be tainted by all sorts of things and as such aiming for fun to play is much more important. I will continue to play a game on a side which loses if I have fun whilst playing....shooting skulks, gorges, lerks fades and even onos is fun.
Why do we see marines turtle late game? Because even though you have lost its still fun and you will get a few more kills (the reason we play a FPS is to get frags). So that means that your belief that people wont play when they lose 90% is wrong, a lot of people will play when they know they are 100% certain to lose. This is why late game turtles are such a problem for aliens to deal with.
Comments
"I dont see why Onos need a beacon theyre faster than marines without jetpack." Even if they are "fast", hive will be most likely down before onos arrives if there is a rush. Hives go down incredibly fast with concentrated fire even without exos. u shouldnt be comparing marine and onos speed, u should be just thinking does hive hp go down faster than onos runs to hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bull###### right now aliens win 66% of games. Competitive aswell as Public. Aliens are overall easier to play. Marines need to be organized from minute 1 to even hold their positions while you can easymode win alien games with everyone doing whatever he wants. Also noob skulks own noob marines. As easy as that. ######marines wont even be able to get exos up. Also all your scenarios are about a bunch of marines or exos suddenly appearing infront of a hive. That only works if the Khamm is braindead and dont use drifters, aswell as no other defensive structures like whips. Thats more unlikely to happen then 1 single sneaky gorge destroying powernode of a marine base.
<!--quoteo(post=2052366:date=Dec 28 2012, 09:31 AM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 28 2012, 09:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->U are talking about strategies etc but why does one team need have good strategies to stand ground against a team walking and pressing mouse1 and 2?
Basetrade win scenario is pure speculation too, if aliens need to do that marines have a big head start. and if aliens are on 2 hive theres just 1 more to go pretty much and aliens need to kill 2-3cc before marines take down 1 more hive. And if marines want to be smart they can build new cc's to old hive spots while they are taking down hives.
"If marines got 5 Exos they lost the game. Aliens dont need to fight them." There can still be 6+1 marines in bases with beacon, focusfiring onoses pretty fast. Yes i play 12v12 usually. If u say this game isn't balanced on 12v12, it should be because that's what the huge majority of ppl want to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the team pressuring mouse 1 and 2 needed to play way more organized to be even able to press button 1 and 2. While for Aliens its enough to stupid run around, chewing extractors/marines and waiting until they got enough pres. Also trash exos are pretty worthless, i have seen lone skulks taking down awfull dual minigun exos while i didnt see a lone marine killing an Onos so far. They can build the CC on dropped hive, but they lose 3 bases for 1. Only thing Aliens need to do after that is A take down the Exo train, B dont let the exo train going out of their base because they will lose it otherwise. However game isnt winnable for marines when they lost all their bases, while aliens can easy afford to lose 1 hive. Thats why you wont ever see Exo trains in competitive play.
Yes 12v12 is bull######, it favors marines to hard. 12v12 isnt representative, its more like deathmatch then everything else. Majority? I see 10x more 8v8 and 10v10 servers full then 12v12 tbh. 8v8 is actually most enjoyable playermode for non competitve gaming, but well im EU. But even in 12v12 Aliens are dominating, because skulks ###### up marine economy in a majority of games. 6+1 Marines wont also be enough to take down a rush of 6 Onos. So its the same as with 8v8 and 10v10 just with higher numbers.
Also basetrade scenario works to 100% against exo trains, no matter how large the exo train is. I have commanded enough games to tell that. I always laugh if i see an Exo train, its a freewin. Youre just describing awfull players vs even more awfull players. Like rookie 12v12 server or something. Its hard to find people on nonrookie servers who would let such stupid things happen
Yes.
Because the team pressuring mouse 1 and 2 needed to play way more organized to be even able to press button 1 and 2. While for Aliens its enough to stupid run around, chewing extractors/marines and waiting until they got enough pres. Also trash exos are pretty worthless, i have seen lone skulks taking down awfull dual minigun exos while i didnt see a lone marine killing an Onos so far. They can build the CC on dropped hive, but they lose 3 bases for 1. Only thing Aliens need to do after that is A take down the Exo train, B dont let the exo train going out of their base because they will lose it otherwise. However game isnt winnable for marines when they lost all their bases, while aliens can easy afford to lose 1 hive. Thats why you wont ever see Exo trains in competitive play.
Yes 12v12 is bull######, it favors marines to hard. 12v12 isnt representative, its more like deathmatch then everything else. Majority? I see 10x more 8v8 and 10v10 servers full then 12v12 tbh. 8v8 is actually most enjoyable playermode for non competitve gaming, but well im EU. But even in 12v12 Aliens are dominating, because skulks ###### up marine economy in a majority of games. 6+1 Marines wont also be enough to take down a rush of 6 Onos. So its the same as with 8v8 and 10v10 just with higher numbers.
Also basetrade scenario works to 100% against exo trains, no matter how large the exo train is. I have commanded enough games to tell that. I always laugh if i see an Exo train, its a freewin. Youre just describing awfull players vs even more awfull players. Like rookie 12v12 server or something. Its hard to find people on nonrookie servers who would let such stupid things happen<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wrong 24 player servers are always full and small servers are always empty. I often need to wait 10-20min to get into 24 player server. Marines are winning more games than aliens in public but i don't know about competitive.
<a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">Are they really?</a>
Marines have had a higher win rate than Aliens in like three builds. Total. Aliens almost always have a 60-65% win rate.
Take a look at this <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a>. 40% isnt winning more in public. We dont need to argue this anymore statistics > subjective impressions.
really? Lets do i check i logg in and lets see where people are playing. Unfortunately i cant take a Screen because its buggin for some reason but i will count the servers for you.
2x full 24 players.
4x full 20 players.
3x full 18 players.
Also we have got 9 servers who arent full right now, so everything between 1v1 till 9v9. If you count now you will notice that the 12v12 servers are a minotiry. Just because your favourite servers is always full doesnt mean it represents the majority. Rather a minority, because palying 12v12 had nothing to do with NS2. This game gets ridiculous at any numbers > 10v10. Its simple deathmatch without strategy and awfull players who dont want to play the game properly and prefer roll with their face on their keyboard. Nothing wrong with that, i like to do it from time to time aswell. But dont try to make balance statements if you dont know anything different then this perversion.
Marines have had a higher win rate than Aliens in like three builds. Total. Aliens almost always have a 60-65% win rate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those "statistics" are crap, it has been discussed in another thread already. Small sample sizes from couple of dead servers. 95% of the servers using those "stats" are completely dead. Me counting marine wins and losses in my head for couple of days would be more reliable "stats".
It has been called "crap" by people who dont learned maths properly. Thats why they dont get that you dont need 100% of all servers to have an accurate statement.
Ok do that, in all game modes 100 games. Lets go
And after you have done that you explain to me why ur statistics are more reliable then thisones. Also a mathematical proof please.
Let me quote the developers, and then please tell us how their statistics are 'crap' too.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Unknown Worlds Entertainment)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unknown Worlds Entertainment)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When NS2 launched, first 100,000 games displayed a remarkable win loss ratio: 49% Marine wins, 51% alien wins.
This balance began to swing towards the aliens after the first week, without us making any changes to the game. This is a fascinating phenomenon in game balance: As the community gets better at the game, you become better at exploiting wrinkles in the fabric of its design. The discrepancy continued to widen to an unacceptable 40% marine wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So are their stats off too? Are everyone else's stats off? We're just all imagining it?
Sorry, I disagree.
really? Lets do i check i logg in and lets see where people are playing. Unfortunately i cant take a Screen because its buggin for some reason but i will count the servers for you.
2x full 24 players.
4x full 20 players.
3x full 18 players.
Also we have got 9 servers who arent full right now, so everything between 1v1 till 9v9. If you count now you will notice that the 12v12 servers are a minotiry. Just because your favourite servers is always full doesnt mean it represents the majority. Rather a minority, because palying 12v12 had nothing to do with NS2. This game gets ridiculous at any numbers > 10v10. Its simple deathmatch without strategy and awfull players who dont want to play the game properly and prefer roll with their face on their keyboard. Nothing wrong with that, i like to do it from time to time aswell. But dont try to make balance statements if you dont know anything different then this perversion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are u stupid or just cant use server list? i just launched ns and pinged the world, i saw dozens 24 and 20 player servers full and much less 16 player servers. Majority likes to play in as big server as possible, just deal with it, it was like that in NS1 too for years, it's nothing new jesus. I can too make statistics website and add some dead servers to it to get some "statistics" from couple of brasilian kids dueling on empty server btw.
And btw when the game performance gets better even more bigger servers start to appear, most small servers atm are 16 players max because they cant handle high player count.
Let me quote the developers, and then please tell us how their statistics are 'crap' too.
So are their stats off too? Are everyone else's stats off? We're just all imagining it?
Sorry, I disagree.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't said anything about developer statistics, i said that nsstats page is full of crap.
Ye i tapped in and saw that my uploading was a bit slow bugged. But its actually the same with higher numbers.
4x full 24 slots 5x 24 slot servers who arent full, 5x 10v10 full and like 20x 8v8. If you can count you will see what the majority is.
So competitive games, are brazilian kids dueling each other? I know you have absolutely an Idea what youre talking about. You =/= developers. Also i dont think you will manage to do that because u dont even seem to understand how statistics work and why.
4x full 24 slots 5x 24 slot servers who arent full, 5x 10v10 full and like 20x 8v8. If you can count you will see what the majority is.
So competitive games, are brazilian kids dueling each other? I know you have absolutely an Idea what youre talking about. You =/= developers. Also i dont think you will manage to do that because u dont even seem to understand how statistics work and why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im seeing about 30-50 20+ players maxed and maybe 20 16 players. Maybe u need to call ur isp or reinstall NS2.
Jesus. that <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a> has still nothing to with developers. It's made by some random guys gathering "info" from couple of dead server.
Im really done with this thread.
Jesus. that <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a> has still nothing to with developers. It's made some random guys gathering "info" from couple of dead server.
Im really done with this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you NA? I am talking about EU whole time, so you might be right about NA idk. I mean with devs pretty much that theyre stating similar numbers as well ass all statistics I have ever seen so far.
Doesnt matter actually. Even if 90% of players would be playing 12v12, this mode is like a funmap in WC3. Fungame
Doesnt matter actually. Even if 90% of players would be playing 12v12, this mode is like a funmap in WC3. Fungame<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am EU, it doesn't matter where u are. I am pinging the whole world america australia eu russia china everything. U might have max ping turned on in filters.
So u need to play "seriously" to represent players? Aren't games supposed to be fun? Competitive players in any game are always minority.
So u need to play "seriously" to represent players? Aren't games supposed to be fun? Competitive players in any game are always minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye might be.
It is, but the "balance" should be discussed about the gamemode NS2 is designed for. Its 6v6 or max 8v8. You can play what you want even 100 vs 100. But its not representative if were talking about actual balance.
It is, but the "balance" should be discussed about the gamemode NS2 is designed for. Its 6v6 or max 8v8. You can play what you want even 100 vs 100. But its not representative if were talking about actual balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imo game should be balanced for the majority of players not the minority but in ideal case both, like blizzard does pretty succesfully in starcrafts.
I dont see why. The majority plays this game to chill out and dont gives a ###### about competition. Balance matter only for people who want to enjoy competitive aspect. Imo that will never be 12v12 players. I dont even know a single 12v12 player because everyone who wants to play this game seriously switched to lower numbers. Even former 12v12 players.
What exactly did Blizz manage? I didnt play SC2 but i hear lots of complains from players that there isnt an nonranked mod, game is completely rubbish if not played 1v1 and funmaps are just awfull compared to WC3. Also there is alot complaining from sinking numbers of players.
So stop complaining about win rates and focus on making the game fun for both sides.
People saying "oh but aliens win x%" is meaningless, both sides need to be FUN.
An onos getting pwned by a single exo (been there an done it from both sides) let alone a double is not fun.
Aliens for the most part are unfun and often you feel like your losing right up to the point that you win, this comes mostly from the lack of scaling on the alien sides base life-form the skulk.
It does not need to be under any % to ensure both sides are fun to play,as they say "bullsh1t, lies & statistics"...often there is little between these 3.
Saying less than 5% is balanced is ignoring too many variables such as player stacking, teams f4'ing because the comm is new, tards/griefers recycling bases (cant be done on alien side) or one of many other factors (spawn locations etc).
The current state of affairs is also influenced by comms unable to play anything but a resource game and as such lose to camo 1st.
Saying things need to be within x % is counter-intuitive when in a few months time peoplewill know how to counter this strat and a big swing will take place.
Lets remember how things where just before retail...then with a bunch of people wanting to rambo as marines (coupled with experienced players going alien) we saw a swing of 10%.
Alien game play needs a lot to be desired as its often tedious mid to late game unless your a higher lifeform.
The fact is that marines a heck of a lot more fun to play. You get weapons and armour upgrades so your base lifeform is stronger and harder to kill. Then you can get SG's, FT, GL's Exo or for 10 res you can fly around and be almost totally invincible with a JP.
For a 75 res investment the onos is about right though could do with some minor buffs (bone shield), compared to a dual exo however its laughably bad. This has nothing to do with win loss rates (as by the time an onos can hit the field the games often already decided) but rather the enjoyment level of playing each side.
Saying less than 5% is balanced is ignoring too many variables such as player stacking, teams f4'ing because the comm is new, tards/griefers recycling bases (cant be done on alien side) or one of many other factors (spawn locations etc).
The current state of affairs is also influenced by comms unable to play anything but a resource game and as such lose to camo 1st.
Saying things need to be within x % is counter-intuitive when in a few months time peoplewill know how to counter this strat and a big swing will take place.
Lets remember how things where just before retail...then with a bunch of people wanting to rambo as marines (coupled with experienced players going alien) we saw a swing of 10%.
Alien game play needs a lot to be desired as its often tedious mid to late game unless your a higher lifeform.
The fact is that marines a heck of a lot more fun to play. You get weapons and armour upgrades so your base lifeform is stronger and harder to kill. Then you can get SG's, FT, GL's Exo or for 10 res you can fly around and be almost totally invincible with a JP.
For a 75 res investment the onos is about right though could do with some minor buffs (bone shield), compared to a dual exo however its laughably bad. This has nothing to do with win loss rates (as by the time an onos can hit the field the games often already decided) but rather the enjoyment level of playing each side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree tosome extent that Aliens need work. But i strongly disagree with onos needing a buff. This lifeform is just ridiculously overpowered the last thing its need is a buff. Who the ###### cares if an dualexo wins a 1v1 vs Onos. Exos are just overall far weaker then Onos because they stay and fall with support. Onos needs a nerf and other lifeforms need better scaling into lategame.
Also, ns2stats is a really cool website and clearly shows something's off, and no, these servers are clearly not dead since I recently played on one of them that was full the entire time.
How is a race that feels doomed to lose from the word go be FUN?
So stop complaining about win rates and focus on making the game fun for both sides.
People saying "oh but aliens win x%" is meaningless, both sides need to be FUN.
An onos getting pwned by a single exo (been there an done it from both sides) let alone a double is not fun.
Aliens for the most part are unfun and often you feel like your losing right up to the point that you win, this comes mostly from the lack of scaling on the alien sides base life-form the skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is today opposites day?
Aliens win more. (Due largely to the fact that players are inherently more prone to attack; and the attacking team wins NS2.)
Veterans join marines when they want more challenge (which some of us consider more fun.)
Onos tends to beat a regular Exo, as regular Exos don't really have amazing DPS (only Dual Exos have amazing DPS.)
Aliens win more. (Due largely to the fact that players are inherently more prone to attack; and the attacking team wins NS2.)
Veterans join marines when they want more challenge (which some of us consider more fun.)
Onos tends to beat a regular Exo, as regular Exos don't really have amazing DPS (only Dual Exos have amazing DPS.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's funny. When i want challenge i go aliens. When i join marines it really feels easy and i usually faceroll with 10-1 kill ratios just with lmg. As aliens u need fade or onos to do that or sometimes lerk if marines don't have the best aim, but often game is lost before those are out. U could say i'm somewhat veteran, i played NS1 for years.
W:L ratios are too simplistic and are flawed if used as the only source of balance.
UWE, rightly so, have chosen to also consider the "fun to play" element.
I, like VittuLima, find marines much easier to play and a much higher level of enjoyment with much less effort.
This is confirmed by the myriad of posts in the lead up to going "retail" from people asking/begging veteran players to go alien so as to avoid a total alien noob stomping.
Why? Because marines are easier to play, quicker to pick up and all round more fun to play.
This led to the swing in stats with almost 0 balance changes as experienced aliens where taking on not only noob marines but noob marine comms.
This is why UWE has persisted with little buffs to marines as they know that the fun factor in aliens is missing.
Aliens are less fun to play, sure its fun to pub stomp noob marines but play against an equally skilled marine team and playing aliens becomes terribly frustrating as you constantly die whilst perceptually barely inflicting much damage.
This continues right up to the point you lose or that marines start recycling as you have somehow won (depriving you of any real amount of time feeling like your winning).
Win Loss ratios can be tainted by all sorts of things and as such aiming for fun to play is much more important.
I will continue to play a game on a side which loses if I have fun whilst playing....shooting skulks, gorges, lerks fades and even onos is fun.
Why do we see marines turtle late game? Because even though you have lost its still fun and you will get a few more kills (the reason we play a FPS is to get frags).
So that means that your belief that people wont play when they lose 90% is wrong, a lot of people will play when they know they are 100% certain to lose. This is why late game turtles are such a problem for aliens to deal with.