Lets talk about Onos
WitchcraftTheEvertrolling
Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175185Members
Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175185Members
While I like the fact that with Onos Aliens got a reliable Tank unit in my opinion the devs went with the Onos over the top.
This lifeform is just too good. While everything in this game got advantages and disadvantages Onos pretty much have no disadvantages. Ofc it should be strong as 75 res unit, but the current state of this lifeform makes alien gameplay kind of boring. You just need 1-2 guys who go fade or lerk to survive midgame and maybe 1-2 gorges to secure hive positions while others safing for onos. As soon as possible everyone just evolves to onos, there is no reason to take other lifeforms, none.
Onos kill marines faster then fades. The damage of Onos on buildings prety much equals a Gorge, with only con being singletarget. Onos are tankier than all other lifeforms combined. Onos can move around the map pretty fast with their charge.
So you basically got everything you need in 1 lifeform. Compare the situation of 2 Onos 2 fades 1 Gorge and 1 Lerk attacking the enemy base with 6 Onos attacking the base. Onos will destroy this base even easier than a mix of lifeforms.
Compare that to Exos. They cant be beaconed, they need support from welding marines, their movementspeed is slow as hell. If all marines go Exo, you have lost the game,because theyre absolutely helpless and got zero mobility. Even if its an asymetrical game, every higher lifeform should have its place and not only serve as a placeholder for Onos, just like marine weapons do.
In my opinion something should be changed about this
This lifeform is just too good. While everything in this game got advantages and disadvantages Onos pretty much have no disadvantages. Ofc it should be strong as 75 res unit, but the current state of this lifeform makes alien gameplay kind of boring. You just need 1-2 guys who go fade or lerk to survive midgame and maybe 1-2 gorges to secure hive positions while others safing for onos. As soon as possible everyone just evolves to onos, there is no reason to take other lifeforms, none.
Onos kill marines faster then fades. The damage of Onos on buildings prety much equals a Gorge, with only con being singletarget. Onos are tankier than all other lifeforms combined. Onos can move around the map pretty fast with their charge.
So you basically got everything you need in 1 lifeform. Compare the situation of 2 Onos 2 fades 1 Gorge and 1 Lerk attacking the enemy base with 6 Onos attacking the base. Onos will destroy this base even easier than a mix of lifeforms.
Compare that to Exos. They cant be beaconed, they need support from welding marines, their movementspeed is slow as hell. If all marines go Exo, you have lost the game,because theyre absolutely helpless and got zero mobility. Even if its an asymetrical game, every higher lifeform should have its place and not only serve as a placeholder for Onos, just like marine weapons do.
In my opinion something should be changed about this
Comments
Sorry but what the heck do you think Exo's, JP's & SG's are?
2-3 marines with JP's and can easily take down or atleast force a retreat from an onos.
1 dual Exo and will beat 1 onos unless the exo is foolish.
Marines do not need anything more to bring down the onos...might just need to accept you cant rambo all alien lifeforms in the game.
Seeing as a marine with a SG and JP are able to make most fades quickly retreat or die and lower lifeforms run risk of insta-gibs.
Onos is fine, he is fat, slow...he had all sorts of changes made in the past (slowed down, armour reduced, HP reduced etc) but all that meant was aliens had a 75 RES lerk (useless waste of res for 98% of the player base).
I'll add that late game, a single dual exo playing defensively works wonders against Onos. In pubs, everyone wants to push with their exos, often without welders, to a quick demise.
Instead, post up in the center of whatever base is getting pressured. Use thrusters to get on top of a command station or an armory. When you have that open space, you can unload from the moment they step in to the moment they get back out. They'll have no time to deal damage to anything, or they'll die.
A few alternate pistols would be nice, perhaps a railgun?
Halve Onos speed, double Onos health. They become the tanks they ought to be.
Might have to triple the health tho, considering jetpackers would be able to chase them forever again...
shoot onos.
Halve Onos speed, double Onos health. They become the tanks they ought to be.
Might have to triple the health tho, considering jetpackers would be able to chase them forever again...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Giving them bone armor but removing Charge is how I would go about it.
It's really just Charge that's the main problem. They have ridiculous ######tons of health, do tons of damage, can AOE stun basic Marines, and are the fastest Alien for god knows why.
shoot onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soooo true. Works unless Marines go in groups of 2 people and then complain.
Onos dies so fast under Marine fire. You have to retreat right when your HP go below 50% or you won't make it out alive. Marine with JP? Nothing you can do. Marines circling you forever? Stomp or you can't kill them (good luck having 3 Hives in critical situations). No carapace? You're already dead. Celerity stops working when shot? Well, makes running away even harder. Jetpacker following you after you run away, doing 500+ damage easily? Nothing you can do. Flamethrower eats all your energy? Good luck running away!
Unlike Exo, an Onos attack is a big all-in bet. If it does not work, you just lost 75 res and A LOT of deterrence. Exos can sit back, turtle, and slowly advance with Marine and Welder and MAC and ball-of-death support. They're ranged units, Onos is not.
Onos are only strong until someone actually shoots them instead of complaining.
Exo + weapons 3 means you can take down an Onos with a single machine gun Exo fairly easily. With a dual one the Onos would be done for.
You can also really screw over Onos by using EMP and flamethrowers to drain them of all their stamina making them rather slow moving targets.
Meanwhile an EXO can't step outside main base to have a smoke without a Shulk running into it's blindspot and solo'ing it in a few seconds.
1 gorge can't even outheal a single w1 lmg marine.... if one is keeping the onos alive through many marines, marines are doing it wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=2051388:date=Dec 26 2012, 10:46 AM:name=KilledByDeath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KilledByDeath @ Dec 26 2012, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meanwhile an EXO can't step outside main base to have a smoke without a Shulk running into it's blindspot and solo'ing it in a few seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, if your exos are being soloed by skulks, marines are doing it wrong. Try not going outside your base at 100 health...
It is far from impossible to circle strafe an EXO to death as a skulk. Bonus points for the EXO not being "environmentally aware" enough to stay away from walls. I've chomped some EXOs that kept shooting at their feet when they have backed themselves into a corner and I've climbed the wall behind them and am now chomping their heads.
Exo + weapons 3 means you can take down an Onos with a single machine gun Exo fairly easily. With a dual one the Onos would be done for.
You can also really screw over Onos by using EMP and flamethrowers to drain them of all their stamina making them rather slow moving targets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exos don't benefit from weapons upgrades. W3 Exo is the same as W0 Exo.
Never said it was impossible, but it is highly improbable if the exo is playing properly (aka. is competent and has support). This is not the fault of the skulk (or aliens), but is instead the fault of the marine who is behind the exo. The game should not be balanced around poor play.
Bilebomb rushes, powernode rushes, fade rushes, whip echos, lerk umbra onos rushes...
He strafed a bit, ran around the corner, came back, ran up to me under full fire and we fought for like 10 seconds before he took me out. I was really frustrated because I had hit him a whole lot.
The problem is that Oni are just fine for solo play. They can retreat effectively so that a failed onos rush does not usually mean a loss of the life form, they can do huge damage to both players and structures, and they have a lot of health.
Exosuits with dual miniguns cost the same number of resources yet cannot retreat, cannot heal themselves (unless they have player or mac suport of course!), and cannot deal out enough damage to put down an onos in a reasonable amount of time.
Personally I like how the exosuit plays, but I always feel bad when I get owned because I am simply on the wrong team. The onos is simply better than everything else in the game. It IS the winning strategy.
Marines have arcs, grenade launchers, and exos as endgame options. Sometimes they use all three, but it could be any of them. Aliens just have oni and there really isn't a reason to do anything but oni.
Every alien lifeform should excell in something. Fades should be the strongest Lifeform to kill marines, gorges to ###### up buildings, Lerk support in battle and onos the Tank and siege unit. Right now Oni are all that in 1 lifeform. The support you can substitute with a Crag position somewhere near marine base.
Compare the variety marine players got to destroy a base with aliens. Marines can do an Arc push, Exo puch, GL push, set up a sneaky PG and take a hive by surprise, pumpgun pushes can also work very well. What can aliens do? There is actually only Bilebombrush, that works only if marines dont react fast enough and all going Onos and tunnel powernode, what works way better unless marines have 2 dual minigun exos to defend the node in this base. So basically the only reliable way to win the game for aliens are Oni.
Thats exactly the issue for me. Oni being better in everything makes alien gameplay kind of static and boring. I would prefer to nerf the Onos and increase the lategame power of other lifeforms. That would make things more interresting, and we could have more reliable tactics on alien side then Onos pushes.
So then why can't a marine take out a lone out of base unsupported Ono then
Because the sides are asymmetrical. Onos does not equal EXO.
But why not, both cost 75 res. If EXOs are weaker then Onos why not make them cost 65 instead?
see now thats what I thought but I got told different in game after I used a single Exo to punch an Onos to death essentially
Again, asymetrical. JPs cost 10, but make it very hard for an onos or a blinkless fade to kill them. Should they cost more? Weapons are able to be picked up again, lifeforms aren't. You can't compare prices of weapons or upgrades to prices of lifeforms because even though they may be similar, they aren't the same thing.
And yeah, the OP has a point. There's literally no reason not to go Ono once you can afford it, and yet with EXOs there's a laundry list of drawbacks making them overall a giant liability rather then an end game unit.
Destroys MACs, ARCs, Exos, Sentries and bases. Has range, large splash AoE, high DPS, low energy requirement, low cost to use, low cost to upgrade, great range, arc over obstacles, hugely delays pushes and synegises excellently with other aliens.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inwzOooXRU" target="_blank">Why Do Birds Suddenly Appear...</a>
Sorry, couldn't help myself; it's all I heard in my head when I read your post...