I don't understand the 215 changes.
Cee Colon Slash
Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152581Members
Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152581Members
- Remove pistol secondary fire. Was it too good? Were people complaining it was awesome? The laser sight effect alone was worth it.
- Remove marine armor healing from armory. I won't re-iterate the entire post about that, but nerfing marines makes little sense when they are already losing regularly to aliens.
- Reduce skulk bite distance. It was 2.7, now it's 1.5. I have to be so incredibly close to marines to hit them it's almost impossible now, given how much dodging is happening now. Can it at least be the same distance as the fade stab (1.6)?
- Reduce harvester health. Now they're made of paper; there's no time to get anyone to the harvester before it's been taken down.
I have found this build to be more frustrating to play than 214. Do I really have to just hold out for the next patch and hope it's more fun? Am I alone here?
- Remove marine armor healing from armory. I won't re-iterate the entire post about that, but nerfing marines makes little sense when they are already losing regularly to aliens.
- Reduce skulk bite distance. It was 2.7, now it's 1.5. I have to be so incredibly close to marines to hit them it's almost impossible now, given how much dodging is happening now. Can it at least be the same distance as the fade stab (1.6)?
- Reduce harvester health. Now they're made of paper; there's no time to get anyone to the harvester before it's been taken down.
I have found this build to be more frustrating to play than 214. Do I really have to just hold out for the next patch and hope it's more fun? Am I alone here?
Comments
- Remove marine armor healing from armory. I won't re-iterate the entire post about that, but nerfing marines makes little sense when they are already losing regularly to aliens.
- Reduce skulk bite distance. It was 2.7, now it's 1.5. I have to be so incredibly close to marines to hit them it's almost impossible now, given how much dodging is happening now. Can it at least be the same distance as the fade stab (1.6)?
- Reduce harvester health. Now they're made of paper; there's no time to get anyone to the harvester before it's been taken down.
I have found this build to be more frustrating to play than 214. Do I really have to just hold out for the next patch and hope it's more fun? Am I alone here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly: +1
At every latest build there are changes which bring down the game! Do you really want the game to go out for summer or winter? x(
Marine armor repair nerf I'm totally for.. Some just sit at the armory and they are impossible to kill with the healing.
harvester nerf is stupid though, you cant get anyone there before its dead and then you have to spend more resources to keep them there since they'll just keep dying. I've resorted to just running around and kill the enemy's harvesters quickly to annoy them.
-Removing pistol secondary fire...
I never understood why there was two modes. I just hoped the kept the second (with laser) damage
-Remove marine armor healing from armory...
I agree. The advanced armory should heal armor.
-Reduce skulk bite distance...
I didn't even notice. I was playing better as a skulk than normal. I didn't know why last night and I really don't know why now.
-Reduced harvester health...
It was never a problem in full servers for me. Someone was always close enough. As a marine I was usually almost about to kill it before they got to me.
Haven't played it, but I don't like those changes. Suppose it makes skulking more demanding, less random spamming of bite. I never saw skulks as a massive problem though compared to fade and lerk. Losing armour as a marine though sounds terrible unless they removed welder research requirement.
Zero air control + reduced bite distance.
- Remove marine armor healing from armory. I won't re-iterate the entire post about that, but nerfing marines makes little sense when they are already losing regularly to aliens.
- Reduce skulk bite distance. It was 2.7, now it's 1.5. I have to be so incredibly close to marines to hit them it's almost impossible now, given how much dodging is happening now. Can it at least be the same distance as the fade stab (1.6)?
- Reduce harvester health. Now they're made of paper; there's no time to get anyone to the harvester before it's been taken down.
I have found this build to be more frustrating to play than 214. Do I really have to just hold out for the next patch and hope it's more fun? Am I alone here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Build 212 was the last patch I really enjoyed.
215 and 213/214 have NOT been fun to play, in my opinion.
Cheers,
Cody
Look at post #69
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117569&st=40" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...17569&st=40</a>
- Remove marine armor healing from armory. I won't re-iterate the entire post about that, but nerfing marines makes little sense when they are already losing regularly to aliens.
- Reduce skulk bite distance. It was 2.7, now it's 1.5. I have to be so incredibly close to marines to hit them it's almost impossible now, given how much dodging is happening now. Can it at least be the same distance as the fade stab (1.6)?
- Reduce harvester health. Now they're made of paper; there's no time to get anyone to the harvester before it's been taken down.
I have found this build to be more frustrating to play than 214. Do I really have to just hold out for the next patch and hope it's more fun? Am I alone here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pistol secondary fire wasnt that great anyways.
Marine armor healing from armory, doesnt have as big of an impact as ppl make it look in their QQ (when i first read it in the forum i thought wtf too, but after playing - i dont find that its changing that much - ppl who constantly run back for an armory are wasting userful time anyways) - and when you did have one it was way too good togheter with medpack spam and nanoshields. Read fanas comments in the other 215 thread.
Skulk bite distance was way too far, you could bite from a distance as long as a skulk, way too many luck kills than from actual good movement or aim was the result.
The harvester health decrease might be because you now have to use welder a lot more often => resulting in not having an axe... you are not supposed to be able to defend an harvester if you whole team is at the other side of the map.
I think a small distance (not the massive one from 215) decrease was in order, but the cone should go up a little again as well.
I'm concerned about the cost of welders, are they still 10 res? That seems a bit high considering their recent involvement. 5res? 7res perhaps?
If it still is 10 res, that seems a lot of res to invest with limited payout.
I think shotgun hit detection is working better for me in 215?
Playing as Marines has always required a lot of coordination between players but these changes to welding are entirely pug-unfriendly, it just seems like such a drastic change to how the Marine team is supposed to operate, I'd prefer if they went with the earlier suggestions and tried those out first before bombing us with a flat out nerf.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm concerned about the cost of welders, are they still 10 res? That seems a bit high considering their recent involvement. 5res? 7res perhaps?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe they're 5 res now, need to check later.
The marine commander can drop you a welder, everywhere on the map.
This statement would be a bit more impacting if aliens weren't already winning 9/10 games on pub servers.
I find it weird no one has noticed how much more responsive the pistol's normal fire mode is now compared to previous patches. It feels substantially better in every way.
wall jump effectiveness
leap distance
and now a nerf to attack range?
i think there's a little bit of skulk leg that hasn't been tenderized yet. hurry beat it.
This quote would be beautiful if I hadn't already been exposed to seeing pub marine players try to chase each other with welders, rather than shoot at alien players that were attacking them. So nonfunctional. And very face-palm worthy! :)
Logically, the armory change could make perfect sense: Get people to work together, stay focused on keeping your teammates alive and work together as a team.
But in practice, it doesn't appear to work well. Also, it's far too late to be messing with these types of changes. Most of the balancing that has been done in the past few years has been with the consideration that marines typically have full armor. To make this change throws out all of that, unfortunately. If only we could turn back the hands of time!
Also, you say the change forces people to play smarter and better. That statement right there sums up the problem perfectly. Good game design never "forces" players to do anything like this. If the goal is to have players play smarter and better, it has to be done gracefully and without hindrance. Have you ever tried to repair someone's armor and they just keep running away from you and you have your welder out, trying to catch up and help them. Then you get chomped by an alien because you don't have your weapon ready and then the player you were trying to weld also gets killed because his armor was 0? It's a bit disappointing, I can tell you that :)
And in the patch notes, it says the change was made to help with... get this... 1-base stalemates. Nothing really there about team coercion or anything like that. Just for stalemates... that's it? A problem that only really half existed which could be easily solved by the 4-hive alien upgrade of commander using T.res to evolve into the Gorge King and leveling their base. ha!
In all seriousness, though, the best idea so far, I think, is having advanced armory being able to heal player armor.
Charlie, can we please try this idea out in the next version??? :)
The secondary attack did more damage per shot, but much slower rate of fire. It was really good when you couldn't get near a building to knife it and you didn't want to waste rifle ammo.
as for the bite-range reduction, it still seems easy enough to hit marines imo.
2.7 is a typo. It was 1.6 before, lowered to 1.5. So the change is not quite that big.
Bw, you can see the melee attack boxes if you like. Create a game, open the console, type "cheats 1", "trace m" then try biting - you will get the boxes used to trace hits.
Bw, you can see the melee attack boxes if you like. Create a game, open the console, type "cheats 1", "trace m" then try biting - you will get the boxes used to trace hits.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah it definitely didn't feel that different. however, did you lower marine melee range to compensate? it's really frustrating to approach a marine that has practiced his rifle butt.
With that reasoning you can argue for any kind of change in pure values.
10 hours of gameplay is enough for any half-decent player to adapt his way of playing to the changed variables.
Which still leaves the question open: Why lower it in the first place?
It seems like many of these changes are aimed at making the hard skill ceiling for the skulk lower, but a change like this only makes the skill ceiling higher for new players and as such more frustrating for them to actually reach it.
One should think that fundamental variables like the range of a base unit should be pretty much ironed out at this point. Instead the change feels like just another of the many nerfs and buffs thrown at both teams in this patch, hoping that "balance" will be accomplished by just randomly trying stuff and the universe shifting in place by chance.
The Armory-Welder-Powernode changes hit the same niche, making welders an requirement for any marine team that hopes to get anywhere. Maybe it's just me, but the whole patch feels like it's lacking any solid direction or goals, it's just a big collection of more or less random changes so the community can keep arguing about "balance" for another 2 weeks.
I just don't think that's a good reason to have an alt fire. If that makes the gun more useful, make it the primary mode.
I liked that it had differing uses. The secondary for sniping (halo 1 style) and building killing, and the primary for quick draw moments when I run out of rifle ammo. Just my views but I really enjoyed the old pistol.