Combat Mode Relaunch

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Comments

  • CodeineCodeine Members Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515
    One thing i noticed was that the fade swipe delay after blinking makes it pretty hard to kill jp marines espically with the collision around the hive on other players, 3 marines with JPs can just strafe the hive for a good amount of time.

    in NS1 i always played skulk so i dont know what the fade was like. But it pissed me off :D
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557
    Hi guys I was playing around with an idea for a fun map and thought I could tweak it for combat.
    What do I need to do to it just add co_to the map name ?

    File is here if you want to check it out.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32942522/ns2_combat.rar

    It's very rough but functional.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Posts: 4,983 mod
    Just played it on the All-In server and its a great start. However, there are a few issues:

    - Need a way to unbuy (or change) your existing upgrades, especially after you've reached the max level
    - Game devolved into a huge stalemate (was on summit, which is not well suited for combat)
    - Since you know where the other team spawns and there are no other objective, it makes little sense not to attack the enemy tech node in the most direct route possible. I wouldn't mind some type of ability to make a forward spawn or give some value to not mindlessly rushing the enemy base.
  • Hunter.S.T.Hunter.S.T. Members Join Date: 2012-05-26 Member: 152596Posts: 284 Fully active user
    Funny bug, i upgraded to jetpack just as i died.

    came back to life on teh spot, with 1hp, and the model for a old style grenade launcher/lmg combo, that couldnt fire.

    I was also completely invulnerable lol

    They tried very hard to kill me, but i was un kill able lol
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    Why are we fragmenting the NS2 community with Combat already? We typically only have about 50 people online playing at any one time, and with the new All In | Combat server, 8-13 of those people aren't playing NS2.
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • CodeineCodeine Members Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515
    Because people want to play combat.
  • elmo9000elmo9000 Members Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149324Posts: 332
    QUOTE (Psyke @ Jul 13 2012, 09:19 AM) »
    Why are we fragmenting the NS2 community with Combat already? We typically only have about 50 people online playing at any one time, and with the new All In | Combat server, 8-13 of those people aren't playing NS2.


    Something like 4vs4 or 5vs5 combat definitely starts to sound more attractive for public play than the 18 players client fps rapefest with structurespam around every corner. And now we even got feign death aka free lifeforms upon death so it kinda feels like combat already, only that the fps is worse.
  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Members Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Posts: 510 Advanced user
    edited July 2012
    Thanks for the feedback!

    It's possible at the moment to unbuy upgrades by switching to ready room and then back. I think long-term we may have it where you can sacrifice a level to re-buy upgrades - I need to discuss with JimWest before we go ahead with that though.

    The maps problem is a real problem - none of the existing NS2 maps are quite right for Combat (Rockdown would have been the closest, but it's not part of vanilla NS2 any more). We've got some maps ready but with Steam Workshop still not auto-downloading properly we can't go further yet.

    The third one is again part of the maps problem, there needs to be multiple attack angles and strategies for each tech point e.g. vents, small corridors, big onos-sized corridor. Longer-term, I want to add some alternative game modes and/or strategic objectives with the Combat format, but I don't want to start work on them until we have the core game mechanics refined and stable. Also to prevent outrage I want these extra features to be optional extras, something to increase the replayability of Combat, not part of the core gameplay for now.

    At the moment, it seems like on aggregate the marines have a bit of an advantage but I think we need to run a few more tests and refine the stats. When the gorges can heal properly it might help a bit, and maybe we can look at reducing the cooldown on the fade swipe. It would be nice if we could get some statistics out of the game reporting system that UWE use (incidentally, that reminds me, I need to disable stats sending for now otherwise it'll mess up their reporting).
    QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jul 13 2012, 06:45 AM) »
    Just played it on the All-In server and its a great start. However, there are a few issues:

    - Need a way to unbuy (or change) your existing upgrades, especially after you've reached the max level
    - Game devolved into a huge stalemate (was on summit, which is not well suited for combat)
    - Since you know where the other team spawns and there are no other objective, it makes little sense not to attack the enemy tech node in the most direct route possible. I wouldn't mind some type of ability to make a forward spawn or give some value to not mindlessly rushing the enemy base.
  • endarendar Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73256Posts: 620 Fully active user
    QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jul 13 2012, 04:45 PM) »
    Just played it on the All-In server and its a great start. However, there are a few issues:

    - Need a way to unbuy (or change) your existing upgrades, especially after you've reached the max level
    - Game devolved into a huge stalemate (was on summit, which is not well suited for combat)
    - Since you know where the other team spawns and there are no other objective, it makes little sense not to attack the enemy tech node in the most direct route possible. I wouldn't mind some type of ability to make a forward spawn or give some value to not mindlessly rushing the enemy base.


    These problems were all solved in NS1.
    #1 I think its part of the game, that you actually plan your final build when you start, making sacrifices to make sure you achieve your desired build (JP or whatever).
    #2 In NS1, marines had a time limit to win the game, if they don't finish in 15? minutes, aliens auto win. Kind of made sense, since the aliens had already invaded the space ship/station, and the marines had to get rid of them.
    #3 Junction isn't a combat map, so it's not really balanced in terms of the paths being equidistant, or some being safer+long vs more dangerous(vents)+shorter etc. When the maps are specialized, i don't think this will matter as much.

    QUOTE (Psyke @ Jul 13 2012, 05:19 PM) »
    Why are we fragmenting the NS2 community with Combat already? We typically only have about 50 people online playing at any one time, and with the new All In | Combat server, 8-13 of those people aren't playing NS2.


    This is not the thread to be whinging about people using their free choice. Make another thread in General discussion if you'd like to discuss it.
  • JimWestJimWest Members, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Posts: 528 Advanced user
    edited July 2012
    Update: New Alien upgrades + Spawn protection (atm 4 sec) are implemented.
    Gorge healspray heals now a bit more.
    (but not at the servers we need to make a new version for them then)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • CodeineCodeine Members Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515
    QUOTE (JimWest @ Jul 13 2012, 11:33 AM) »
    Update: New Alien upgrades + Spawn protection (atm 4 sec) are implemented.
    Gorge healspray heals now a bit more.
    (but not at the servers we need to make a new version for them then)


    Awesome.
  • Electr0Electr0 Members Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349
    edited July 2012
    It's great to see this up and running, especially as we now have steam workshop.

    Please consider adding mvm, ava, extra levels and build menu as an option for servers after you have the main mod is working well, i always found mvm fun but it was rare to see, hopefully this time we can have a good mix of game types going, ctf or bagman (if anyone remembers that?) could be fun.
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557
    edited July 2012
    I made another new map today with combat in mind.
    Should be functional enough for testing
    I've only spent about 6 hours on this so please understand it's a work in progress.
    Got 100 fps in every room except for the hive room fps dropped to 88fps likely due to infestation.

    ns2_assault.level
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32942522/ns2_assault.rar
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Posts: 2,689 admin
    QUOTE (Codeine @ Jul 12 2012, 11:27 PM) »
    Because people want to play combat.


    QUOTE (elmo9000 @ Jul 12 2012, 11:44 PM) »
    Something like 4vs4 or 5vs5 combat definitely starts to sound more attractive for public play than the 18 players client fps rapefest with structurespam around every corner. And now we even got feign death aka free lifeforms upon death so it kinda feels like combat already, only that the fps is worse.


    The debate is continuing here:
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...119383&st=0
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • JimWestJimWest Members, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Posts: 528 Advanced user
    Alien GUI is now finished and working, too.

    image

    We will make a new version for everybody soon.
  • JektJekt Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    Those icons look excellent.
  • FragmagnetFragmagnet Members Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72873Posts: 179 Fully active user
    And good times shall be had when this is done.
  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Members Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Posts: 510 Advanced user
    edited July 2012
    I will have a look at this tonight or tomorrow, whenever I have time (sorry, in the process of moving house so less able to keep on track of stuff at the moment!)

    I've updated the OP to include your map too, is that okay?

    I will also put out a new version of the mod download link with Spawn Protection, upgraded healspray etc. tomorrow morning, assuming it's ready by then!

    QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Jul 13 2012, 05:22 PM) »
    I made another new map today with combat in mind.
    Should be functional enough for testing
    I've only spent about 6 hours on this so please understand it's a work in progress.
    Got 100 fps in every room except for the hive room fps dropped to 88fps likely due to infestation.

    ns2_assault.level
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32942522/ns2_assault.rar
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557
    Including the map is great.

    I don't really want to go further with it till I get some feedback.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • CodeineCodeine Members Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515
    QUOTE (JimWest @ Jul 13 2012, 06:02 PM) »
    Alien GUI is now finished and working, too.

    image

    We will make a new version for everybody soon.


    Man that looks good.
  • JimWestJimWest Members, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Posts: 528 Advanced user
    Well it's just the standard Alien buy menu a bit adepted to combat ^^
  • JaqarllJaqarll Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2005-05-15 Member: 51659Posts: 132
    Nothing bad about that, as long as it is functional. Then again why would anyone want it to be something completely different from the base game? Wasn't the case in NS1 either.
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557
    edited July 2012
    Assault Map Update.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32942522/ns2_assault.rar

    Scrapped that first version and started it again.
    Endar is going to upload it to the Monash Combat server tomorrow to help me stress test it.

    Secondary routes will be added but for the time being it's all about a frontal assault.


    image image image

    image image image

    image image image
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • JimWestJimWest Members, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Posts: 528 Advanced user
    edited July 2012
    OK New Version !!!
    We will start now with 1.0.

    Download:

    For normal servers and players:
    https://github.com/downloads/AlexHayton/NS2...ombat_v.1.0.zip

    For servers which are using Overmind:
    https://github.com/downloads/AlexHayton/NS2...ameOvermind.zip

    Changes:
    - Spawnprotect for aliens and rines (4 sec), effect ist sometimes buggy, but the invul thing works
    - Included new Alien abilitys (Feint + Adrenalin)
    - Gorge healspray heals now a bit more
    - CombatGames are no longer send to UWE's Statistics
    - CombatMod checks his version when starting or changing the map


    Optional if you use the CombatMod as Client (just start Ns2 with -game NS2Combat)
    - Implemented Alien buy menu
    Oh and with that Client version you can even play at servers which are using the old combat mode, GUI is usable at all versions
  • CodeineCodeine Members Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515
    where do you put the ns2combat folder?
  • JimWestJimWest Members, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Posts: 528 Advanced user
    unzip the folder to "steamapps\common\natural selection 2", then all mod files are in:
    "steamapps\common\natural selection 2\NS2Combat"

    Then right click on the Ns2 entry in steam, Properties -> Set launch options -> "-game NS2Combat"
  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Members Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Posts: 510 Advanced user
    edited July 2012
    Thanks for doing that JW! I've updated the original post with information about how to get v1.0. It also has installation steps and some design notes for those who may want to read them.

    @WorthyRival the map is looking great! I will put the download link at the top for those who want to try it out. I would recommend you publish it to the Steam Workshop as at some point auto-downloading will work and people won't need to manually install your map. It'll also generate some buzz as there are only a few maps on there at present.

    A status update from my end: I will be moving house for the next couple of weeks so can browse the forums and try and do some work on the code offline but I can't do an awful lot of useful work until I'm moved in and broadband is installed. I think it will be a couple of weeks but will pen an update when I have a clearer picture. In the meantime, JW will be busy adding new features I am sure! :)
  • CodeineCodeine Members Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Posts: 515
    I dont mind the option to downgrade one lvl. Probably just have it to only reset 1 point only once per match.
  • rantologyrantology Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Posts: 1,493 Advanced user
    Played a few rounds, fun mod so far. I think when/if graphical buy menus are in it will immensely improve it.


    Balance observations:

    -The hive heal rate and the CC repair rate need to be normalized- atm rines can heal CC WAY faster than aliens heal hive
    -1 free point on round start is unnecessary imo, insta leap skulks / insta armor 1... why? I dont remember it being like that in NS1 co

    Can't wait for co_ maps though :)
    image
  • ArkantiArkanti pub baddie Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111781Posts: 694 Advanced user
    edited July 2012
    QUOTE (rantology @ Jul 16 2012, 02:15 AM) »
    Played a few rounds, fun mod so far. I think when/if graphical buy menus are in it will immensely improve it.


    Balance observations:

    -The hive heal rate and the CC repair rate need to be normalized- atm rines can heal CC WAY faster than aliens heal hive
    -1 free point on round start is unnecessary imo, insta leap skulks / insta armor 1... why? I dont remember it being like that in NS1 co

    Can't wait for co_ maps though :)



    Graphical buy menus are in it for both teams, but you have to be running the mod.

    But yeah, I agree that the free point at the beginning of the round is necessary, also that you should be able to revert your upgrades. It's no fun to be stuck on certain life forms for the entire game because you spent one or two points too many ten minutes ago.

    And silence doesn't seem to be working.

    Fun game mode though, it offers an interesting perspective on basic combat balance with all the base stuff stripped out.
    Mr. Arkanti
    noGG Arkanti
    nova | Arkanti
    Pub Baddie

    Co_Summit - A remix of Summit's unique areas to mould it into a better Combat mod experience. I also broke all the textures. Mad skills yo.
    WildGrass Games - I make video games.
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