Now I have seen very mixed responses about the new skulk movement, but most of them have been very positive to the change and I tend to agree.
You can still get full speed but it takes just a little bit more time, also you have less air control meaning you won't be seeing as many pancaking skulks. Also you need to get used to not being able to jump down instantly like before.
But I think it would be very helpful to get your reasons why you don't like the new skulk, it might give us valuable insight on what might need to be improved. It's kinda hard to see your point of view with only ,,Seriously" to work with.
I rather die to someone who was good with the old movement than to someone who just chose celerity and plays like a rabbit on crack.... celerity is horrible the way it is at the moment....
Oh and walljump wasnt changed directly, but due to the worse air control its alot less rewarding.
I personally think that the new adjustments to walljump are a good step in the right direction, it may help to give the skulk a slight speed boost by default, from say 7 to 7.5 possibly (this may not really be needed tbh, as people become more proficient with using the walljump in combat skulking will improve). The changes really remove a lot of the spastic and unskillful movement that was possible before that people used just to make themselves as hard to hit as possible, which is a really welcome change in my opinion.
With regards to celerity once you land the first bullet they slow down, which may need tweaking itself but from the games we played earlier people still preferred carapace over celerity.
problem with this nerf is that there were other skulk nerfs before this one because of the initial buff wall jumping got. as far as the skulk is concerned 209 just reverted it a dozen builds ago but without it's original and slightly faster speed. I'm hoping it's speed is then reverted as well, but still capped at what the celerity upgrade gives it now.
In 209 I can still maneuver around as a Skulk pretty well. I managed to survive in large groups of marines and take out many of them several times in the past 2 games I played alien.
Honestly... it's complete garbage. The good news is that it can be fixed easily by not forcing the players to wallhop 3-4 times before actually getting a speed boost. Instead the devs need to penalize the players for jumping more than once on the GROUND. You shouldn't be able to bunnyhop around on the ground after you have built up velocity. After 1 or 2 jumps on the ground you should experience a significant speed reduction. This is the best way to keep it skill based and will make it a difficult but still rewarding tactic. Right now the skulk movement is absolutely abysmal.
I think reduced air control is a good thing, but I'm not sure about the implementation, it doesn't feel right to me, can't say why exactly, but in ns1 you can do nice smooth arcs in the air, it feels better somehow.
Celerity for the skulk is really silly, it encourage you to rush the marine because you basically get a free bite, destroying everything that is good with skulking, that is planning and executing the critical approach of the marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1940356:date=May 31 2012, 04:12 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ May 31 2012, 04:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think reduced air control is a good thing, but I'm not sure about the implementation, it doesn't feel right to me, can't say why exactly, but in ns1 you can do nice smooth arcs in the air, it feels better somehow.
Celerity for the skulk is really silly, it encourage you to rush the marine because you basically get a free bite, destroying everything that is good with skulking, that is planning and executing the critical approach of the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True that. Some of my guys got celerity and messed around in some pubs. All you have to do is hold W and swing your mouse around like crazy when near marines and you are impossible to hit. Literally might get 1-2 bullets on the skulk then he can just run away at 400 mph... or kill you and the 2 other marines that expended all their ammo. If you thought wall jumping made skulks hard to hit... just wait. I know I have to give it a chance and play this build a little more but so far this has been the worst balance changes I have ever seen. The gameplay got turned upside down. It's made playing this game regress into a gimmick fest. It doesn't look professional... it looks like a bug to be honest.
I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers.
EDIT: Okay yeah that was a little rage heavy but it really did frustrate me. I know things are going to be tweaked to be better in coming builds but like garfu said... it really is a mystery how this made it through playtesting
The air control does feel a little weird, but im thinking that it may be based on how fast you are going? Or possibly the angle of your jump? As leap has also had its air control changed which is also a welcome one. The NS1 air control was always the same IIRC, so that may be why if it dynamically changes somewhat in NS2 for it feeling a little weird.
Celerity is a mixed bag somewhat as it does encourage bad play somewhat, but if a skulk runs somewhat straight at you with it and you can hit him they do slow down pretty fast. You can currently do 180° turns with celerity and keep the speed boost however which can be like the old walljump if done right. Having the speed boost only outside combat will be troublesome to get feeling 'right' IMO, as if you loose the speed instantly once shot, it can give you a really noticeable hitch which is irritating, or if its a smooth decrease it may be too late as the speed boost caries them the rest of the distance to the marine.
I need to play this build more, but from my few games thus far I think celerity has missed the mark. While it is neat to see "gorge rockets" and other players zoom around the map, it has some major issues.
a) warp speed onos can get around the map insanely fast b) spamming jump with celerity basically makes you like a super fast walljumper used to be c) fades can shadow step with celerity up to 36 speed
I'd really prefer celerity to be a boring +2 speed, or +15% speed with, maybe, some air control and acceleration bonuses.
The amount of air control previously was just stupid. I'm really glad they reduced it, I think skulks will do just fine (they did before), people just need a little time to adjust. It definitely feels weird again but it's for the better.
<!--quoteo(post=1940359:date=May 31 2012, 11:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 31 2012, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers and I for one am extremely enraged. I literally cannot express how angry I am and how much of my life and time I wasted on something that doesn't even matter anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->"I disagree with you and lack the ability to express this respectfully."<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The air control was way to overpowered, unpredictable for lag compensation and cheap. It was obvious to see for everyone, that it would be changed and will be changed in future to make a balanced and fun approach in the final release.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I like the aircontrol better, its much easier to track as a marine. before it was just frustrating.
But i think its too hard to get speed from walljumping now. But i think we are on the right path. Also, dont practice 10 hours on a game skill for a game in beta, specially on a game mechanic that changes nearly with every second patch.
<!--quoteo(post=1940359:date=May 31 2012, 10:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 31 2012, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers and I for one am extremely enraged. I literally cannot express how angry I am and how much of my life and time I wasted on something that doesn't even matter anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure you realise that this is a beta. Anything can change at any time. Try not to hold so dear onto things and try experimenting. If you're not willing to do that, maybe you should wait for 1.0, when things will change less.
Uhhh, the reason I put so much effort into it was simply because it was fun. To get good or master the game was just an added bonus tbh. That's what all of you above me don't understand. You are ruining the FUN of the game. It has nothing to do with balance or change. Change is fine but not if it ruins the fun. More people will come forward about this soon so it doesn't matter.
You guys didn't have to nerf the skulk jump in the way that you did. It was overkill and unnecessary. You all want me to stop playing your game? That's what it sounds like to me.
I have 120 hours logged in ns2 in the last 2 weeks (With no afk time)? Seems like a bad idea that I would stop playing this game and beta testing for you. You guys aren't willing to listen to my opinions? Don't read them. I am not here to cause trouble or hurt anyones feelings. I am being brutally honest when I say I think something is bad.
I'm not here to spite other people or put them down. I am not here for any of that. You all just can't understand where I am coming from. The cold man cannot understand the warm man.
Sorry, but I get the feeling of arguing with a 14 years old here.
No one wants you to quit playing. But you complain about things that have nothing to do with NS2 and in a way that helps no one (especially not the devs) to improve the game. You literally say, that the devs should not improve the game if this means that your training of a skilled action is wasted. No, you can't be this stupid. This looks like obvious troll bait.
Please understand, that this is a beta. If you don't know what this means try not to accuse the devs of being guilty for your anger.
You can't say, you have done something because of teh lulz and one post before you are raging, that you have wasted your time doing so. Please think about what you write before you do.
If a thing in the game is broken and can't be simply fixed, it gets cut (see GL attachment). It doesn't matter if 100 people have trained to play with it. A beta has the goal to improve the game. You can't do this efficient if everyone is crying on every little change only because it hurts their personal feelings.
It's like I'm crying that the fade isn't imba like 198 anymore. Because I felt so good dominating everyone as a fade. This is just stupid behavior. And not helpful to improve the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1940359:date=May 31 2012, 04:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 31 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers and I for one am extremely enraged. I literally cannot express how angry I am and how much of my life and time I wasted on something that doesn't even matter anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1940356:date=May 31 2012, 10:12 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ May 31 2012, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think reduced air control is a good thing, but I'm not sure about the implementation, it doesn't feel right to me, can't say why exactly, but in ns1 you can do nice smooth arcs in the air, it feels better somehow.
Celerity for the skulk is really silly, it encourage you to rush the marine because you basically get a free bite, destroying everything that is good with skulking, that is planning and executing the critical approach of the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, skulk movement in this b208 is a big step in the right direction. Hopefully the implementation will continue to improve until it "feel(s) right".
Agreed with the rest too, celerity is just silly.
<!--quoteo(post=1940359:date=May 31 2012, 10:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 31 2012, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers and I for one am extremely enraged. I literally cannot express how angry I am and how much of my life and time I wasted on something that doesn't even matter anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think my IQ dropped 10 points just from reading this, but it's still too funny to not quote. Seriously man, you need to get a grip.
adhd has been a regular *contributor* here & really shouldnt get the 'its a beta' response. respond to adhd's first post in this thread which had a suggestion, not the colorful expression frustration that came later. maybe there is some add'l work that needs to be done on movement to account for the air control change.
<!--quoteo(post=1940402:date=May 31 2012, 02:18 PM:name=jbaker8935)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jbaker8935 @ May 31 2012, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->adhd has been a regular *contributor* here & really shouldnt get the 'its a beta' response. respond to adhd's first post in this thread which had a suggestion, not the colorful expression frustration that came later. maybe there is some add'l work that needs to be done on movement to account for the air control change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He just complained because the devs touched something he was practicing, I mean, you should expect changes.
For example, the slower boost off walls still feels weird to me, I don't like the current celerity implementation (I'd much rather get a straight faster running speed like in NS1), etc, and those are concerns I (and many other people) have raised and yet here we are... it doesn't mean it can't change again.
<!--quoteo(post=1940405:date=May 31 2012, 07:32 AM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ May 31 2012, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940405"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He just complained because the devs touched something he was practicing, I mean, you should expect changes.
For example, the slower boost off walls still feels weird to me, I don't like the current celerity implementation (I'd much rather get a straight faster running speed like in NS1), etc, and those are concerns I (and many other people) have raised and yet here we are... it doesn't mean it can't change again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Changes are fine like I said... this is a complete revert of skulk movement. It's not truly <i>change</i> if you are just going back to the same as it was before. This takes us back to the movement of skulks that was present <i>months</i> ago. I wouldn't make such a big deal otherwise. I am trying to argue here that this nerf was really just a tad too much guys. I'm sorry for raging out there but honestly try to see my point of view. The developers were working on and refining the skulk movement build over build... IMPROVING it. Now they are running back from their creation in terror? Please.
It was a fun gameplay mechanic that I loved. I wasn't so mad that I lost all the time practicing it as I was that they removed the very thing that I enjoyed most about the game. It was the most fun thing in any videogame ever made. I honestly wish I could carbon copy build 208... just give me one ready room and a skulk and I will be entertained forever. That's the kind of stuff you want in videogames.
It's not about me. If UWE left mechanics like this in their game it would draw in the audience they are looking for. All the kids on my team love this game and give me feedback all the time. I relay that here on the forums. I am not speaking my own opinion half the time I say something. We <i>want</i> FUN aspects of this game to stay... and to balance the game around the things that are FUN. If you don't do it this way you will get an overall boring game in many ways. Some things should be allowed to be a little overpowered. This is an asymmetric game and the devs are smart enough to come up with better solutions to balancing. I think a lot of the fail is resting on the shoulders of the beta testers at the moment.
I'm not trying to make you change your mind and accept the changes, because that's unreasonable. Let me tell you something. I know what you mean.
When they started changing the skulk code, the first thing I said is: "Why don't you just take the 208 skulk and put a reasonable speed cap?", because the movement was fun and I enjoyed playing Skulk. The old cap was 30, now it's 15. Still, they changed more than that. I don't like when they fix problems by changing 200 things at the same time, as I assume noone does.
For the very first few tests I disliked playing aliens a lot because I just play Skulk and Fade (and obviously you spend a lot of time as Skulk in the game), the new celerity didn't help much with this, so I personally insisted on it. Nothing changed. The skulks not being able to do 360s in the air is fine, because as a marine it makes it horrible to aim/predict skulks, so that's fine.
Now, I'd like to see a slightly better walljump bonus (before you'd get like +2 and now it's closer to +1), but that's only my opinion, and it may change the more I play.
Even if I liked the old skulk movement more, it was quite too easy to gain super speeds and jump great arcs in the air. Gameplay wise, 209 is better. Too bad I have to rework ns2_skulkjump again.
It's pretty clear celerity needs to be toned down.
<!--quoteo(post=1940411:date=May 31 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ May 31 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not trying to make you change your mind and accept the changes, because that's unreasonable. Let me tell you something. I know what you mean.
When they started changing the skulk code, the first thing I said is: "Why don't you just take the 208 skulk and put a reasonable speed cap?", because the movement was fun and I enjoyed playing Skulk. The old cap was 30, now it's 15. Still, they changed more than that. I don't like when they fix problems by changing 200 things at the same time, as I assume noone does.
For the very first few tests I disliked playing aliens a lot because I just play Skulk and Fade (and obviously you spend a lot of time as Skulk in the game), the new celerity didn't help much with this, so I personally insisted on it. Nothing changed. The skulks not being able to do 360s in the air is fine, because as a marine it makes it horrible to aim/predict skulks, so that's fine.
Now, I'd like to see a slightly better walljump bonus (before you'd get like +2 and now it's closer to +1), but that's only my opinion, and it may change the more I play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I give a +1 to your idea over what is currently implemented. And sometimes I wish I was internal beta but after reading what you said I'd rather just play the complete builds where the devs will see your guys suggestions come full circle. I know other beta testers who I am friends with and I know you guys are smart and good gamers. I do think maybe some of your opinions are tainted by the fact you are so close to the development team however. That's why I'd prefer to stay public.
I realize now, when I have fully processed it through the day, that build 209 has mostly been a cramfest on the developers part. They pretty obviously just crammed as much stuff into the game as they could without giving proper time to playtest and release to the public. It comes across in my eyes as unprofessional but in the end could be helpful for being able to find new balance changes quickly. If the devs really are so ambitious for change then they are gonna need to cram in a lot of playtime between now and summer when they want to release this game. I just want to help out. They had a good thing going already. I was excited for the exo and the feel of the game but the balance changes that came right <i><b>before </b></i>(Extreme abundance of hive energy) and with shift have turned the game upside down. I hope it can get figured out soon.
By the way UWE. One of my close personal friends who I have been begging to get this game for almost a year finally played NS2 for the first time today after being extremely skeptical about NS1. He played with us for several hours and at the end said he thought this was a pretty damn good game. He went 9-1 his first time ever playing. Haha :-P
<!--quoteo(post=1940359:date=May 31 2012, 05:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 31 2012, 05:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some of my guys got celerity and messed around in some pubs. All you have to do is hold W and swing your mouse around like crazy when near marines and you are impossible to hit. Literally might get 1-2 bullets on the skulk then he can just run away at 400 mph... or kill you and the 2 other marines that expended all their ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mean to stir anything up here, but in regard to this part of your post--AFAIK this is impossible, because with celerity the speed drops down to normal almost immediately when you either a. get hit or b. attack. UWE said that it was meant to help only outside of combat, so I guess this is what they meant.
The sudden stops do feel a bit abrupt though, it would be nice if we could scale the slowdown with the amount of damage that is dealt to the alien. E.g. doing 30% damage to the skulk's hp slows him down 30%, like the bullets are counteracting his inertia. This would make weaker aliens easier to slow down, as well. It's like I'm reproducing physics here! :P
Comments
You can still get full speed but it takes just a little bit more time, also you have less air control meaning you won't be seeing as many pancaking skulks. Also you need to get used to not being able to jump down instantly like before.
But I think it would be very helpful to get your reasons why you don't like the new skulk, it might give us valuable insight on what might need to be improved. It's kinda hard to see your point of view with only ,,Seriously" to work with.
Was wall jump timing changed though? Can't see it patchnotes nor can i open up a game to test atm.
Oh and walljump wasnt changed directly, but due to the worse air control its alot less rewarding.
The changes really remove a lot of the spastic and unskillful movement that was possible before that people used just to make themselves as hard to hit as possible, which is a really welcome change in my opinion.
With regards to celerity once you land the first bullet they slow down, which may need tweaking itself but from the games we played earlier people still preferred carapace over celerity.
Doesn't work in combat, doesn't exactly help with escaping and damage nullifies the upgrade.
Sounds like people are griping because they no longer can just camp long tunnels for easy kills.
Celerity for the skulk is really silly, it encourage you to rush the marine because you basically get a free bite, destroying everything that is good with skulking, that is planning and executing the critical approach of the marines.
Celerity for the skulk is really silly, it encourage you to rush the marine because you basically get a free bite, destroying everything that is good with skulking, that is planning and executing the critical approach of the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True that. Some of my guys got celerity and messed around in some pubs. All you have to do is hold W and swing your mouse around like crazy when near marines and you are impossible to hit. Literally might get 1-2 bullets on the skulk then he can just run away at 400 mph... or kill you and the 2 other marines that expended all their ammo. If you thought wall jumping made skulks hard to hit... just wait. I know I have to give it a chance and play this build a little more but so far this has been the worst balance changes I have ever seen. The gameplay got turned upside down. It's made playing this game regress into a gimmick fest. It doesn't look professional... it looks like a bug to be honest.
I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers.
EDIT: Okay yeah that was a little rage heavy but it really did frustrate me. I know things are going to be tweaked to be better in coming builds but like garfu said... it really is a mystery how this made it through playtesting
Celerity is a mixed bag somewhat as it does encourage bad play somewhat, but if a skulk runs somewhat straight at you with it and you can hit him they do slow down pretty fast. You can currently do 180° turns with celerity and keep the speed boost however which can be like the old walljump if done right. Having the speed boost only outside combat will be troublesome to get feeling 'right' IMO, as if you loose the speed instantly once shot, it can give you a really noticeable hitch which is irritating, or if its a smooth decrease it may be too late as the speed boost caries them the rest of the distance to the marine.
a) warp speed onos can get around the map insanely fast
b) spamming jump with celerity basically makes you like a super fast walljumper used to be
c) fades can shadow step with celerity up to 36 speed
I'd really prefer celerity to be a boring +2 speed, or +15% speed with, maybe, some air control and acceleration bonuses.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->"I disagree with you and lack the ability to express this respectfully."<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The air control was way to overpowered, unpredictable for lag compensation and cheap. It was obvious to see for everyone, that it would be changed and will be changed in future to make a balanced and fun approach in the final release.
But i think its too hard to get speed from walljumping now. But i think we are on the right path. Also, dont practice 10 hours on a game skill for a game in beta, specially on a game mechanic that changes nearly with every second patch.
I'm pretty sure you realise that this is a beta. Anything can change at any time. Try not to hold so dear onto things and try experimenting. If you're not willing to do that, maybe you should wait for 1.0, when things will change less.
You guys didn't have to nerf the skulk jump in the way that you did. It was overkill and unnecessary. You all want me to stop playing your game? That's what it sounds like to me.
I have 120 hours logged in ns2 in the last 2 weeks (With no afk time)? Seems like a bad idea that I would stop playing this game and beta testing for you. You guys aren't willing to listen to my opinions? Don't read them. I am not here to cause trouble or hurt anyones feelings. I am being brutally honest when I say I think something is bad.
I'm not here to spite other people or put them down. I am not here for any of that. You all just can't understand where I am coming from. The cold man cannot understand the warm man.
<img src="http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7497/sdsdqs.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
No one wants you to quit playing. But you complain about things that have nothing to do with NS2 and in a way that helps no one (especially not the devs) to improve the game. You literally say, that the devs should not improve the game if this means that your training of a skilled action is wasted. No, you can't be this stupid. This looks like obvious troll bait.
Please understand, that this is a beta. If you don't know what this means try not to accuse the devs of being guilty for your anger.
You can't say, you have done something because of teh lulz and one post before you are raging, that you have wasted your time doing so. Please think about what you write before you do.
If a thing in the game is broken and can't be simply fixed, it gets cut (see GL attachment). It doesn't matter if 100 people have trained to play with it. A beta has the goal to improve the game. You can't do this efficient if everyone is crying on every little change only because it hurts their personal feelings.
It's like I'm crying that the fade isn't imba like 198 anymore. Because I felt so good dominating everyone as a fade. This is just stupid behavior. And not helpful to improve the game.
lol
Celerity for the skulk is really silly, it encourage you to rush the marine because you basically get a free bite, destroying everything that is good with skulking, that is planning and executing the critical approach of the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, skulk movement in this b208 is a big step in the right direction. Hopefully the implementation will continue to improve until it "feel(s) right".
Agreed with the rest too, celerity is just silly.
<!--quoteo(post=1940359:date=May 31 2012, 10:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 31 2012, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've put probably 10's of hours into purely just practicing skulk jumping. It's in the hundreds if you include the amount I practiced while in real games. All that practice and dedication I put in just got flushed down the toilit by the developers and I for one am extremely enraged. I literally cannot express how angry I am and how much of my life and time I wasted on something that doesn't even matter anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think my IQ dropped 10 points just from reading this, but it's still too funny to not quote. Seriously man, you need to get a grip.
He just complained because the devs touched something he was practicing, I mean, you should expect changes.
For example, the slower boost off walls still feels weird to me, I don't like the current celerity implementation (I'd much rather get a straight faster running speed like in NS1), etc, and those are concerns I (and many other people) have raised and yet here we are... it doesn't mean it can't change again.
For example, the slower boost off walls still feels weird to me, I don't like the current celerity implementation (I'd much rather get a straight faster running speed like in NS1), etc, and those are concerns I (and many other people) have raised and yet here we are... it doesn't mean it can't change again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Changes are fine like I said... this is a complete revert of skulk movement. It's not truly <i>change</i> if you are just going back to the same as it was before. This takes us back to the movement of skulks that was present <i>months</i> ago. I wouldn't make such a big deal otherwise. I am trying to argue here that this nerf was really just a tad too much guys. I'm sorry for raging out there but honestly try to see my point of view. The developers were working on and refining the skulk movement build over build... IMPROVING it. Now they are running back from their creation in terror? Please.
It was a fun gameplay mechanic that I loved. I wasn't so mad that I lost all the time practicing it as I was that they removed the very thing that I enjoyed most about the game. It was the most fun thing in any videogame ever made. I honestly wish I could carbon copy build 208... just give me one ready room and a skulk and I will be entertained forever. That's the kind of stuff you want in videogames.
It's not about me. If UWE left mechanics like this in their game it would draw in the audience they are looking for. All the kids on my team love this game and give me feedback all the time. I relay that here on the forums. I am not speaking my own opinion half the time I say something. We <i>want</i> FUN aspects of this game to stay... and to balance the game around the things that are FUN. If you don't do it this way you will get an overall boring game in many ways. Some things should be allowed to be a little overpowered. This is an asymmetric game and the devs are smart enough to come up with better solutions to balancing. I think a lot of the fail is resting on the shoulders of the beta testers at the moment.
When they started changing the skulk code, the first thing I said is: "Why don't you just take the 208 skulk and put a reasonable speed cap?", because the movement was fun and I enjoyed playing Skulk. The old cap was 30, now it's 15. Still, they changed more than that. I don't like when they fix problems by changing 200 things at the same time, as I assume noone does.
For the very first few tests I disliked playing aliens a lot because I just play Skulk and Fade (and obviously you spend a lot of time as Skulk in the game), the new celerity didn't help much with this, so I personally insisted on it. Nothing changed. The skulks not being able to do 360s in the air is fine, because as a marine it makes it horrible to aim/predict skulks, so that's fine.
Now, I'd like to see a slightly better walljump bonus (before you'd get like +2 and now it's closer to +1), but that's only my opinion, and it may change the more I play.
It's pretty clear celerity needs to be toned down.
When they started changing the skulk code, the first thing I said is: "Why don't you just take the 208 skulk and put a reasonable speed cap?", because the movement was fun and I enjoyed playing Skulk. The old cap was 30, now it's 15. Still, they changed more than that. I don't like when they fix problems by changing 200 things at the same time, as I assume noone does.
For the very first few tests I disliked playing aliens a lot because I just play Skulk and Fade (and obviously you spend a lot of time as Skulk in the game), the new celerity didn't help much with this, so I personally insisted on it. Nothing changed. The skulks not being able to do 360s in the air is fine, because as a marine it makes it horrible to aim/predict skulks, so that's fine.
Now, I'd like to see a slightly better walljump bonus (before you'd get like +2 and now it's closer to +1), but that's only my opinion, and it may change the more I play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I give a +1 to your idea over what is currently implemented. And sometimes I wish I was internal beta but after reading what you said I'd rather just play the complete builds where the devs will see your guys suggestions come full circle. I know other beta testers who I am friends with and I know you guys are smart and good gamers. I do think maybe some of your opinions are tainted by the fact you are so close to the development team however. That's why I'd prefer to stay public.
I realize now, when I have fully processed it through the day, that build 209 has mostly been a cramfest on the developers part. They pretty obviously just crammed as much stuff into the game as they could without giving proper time to playtest and release to the public. It comes across in my eyes as unprofessional but in the end could be helpful for being able to find new balance changes quickly. If the devs really are so ambitious for change then they are gonna need to cram in a lot of playtime between now and summer when they want to release this game. I just want to help out. They had a good thing going already. I was excited for the exo and the feel of the game but the balance changes that came right <i><b>before </b></i>(Extreme abundance of hive energy) and with shift have turned the game upside down. I hope it can get figured out soon.
By the way UWE. One of my close personal friends who I have been begging to get this game for almost a year finally played NS2 for the first time today after being extremely skeptical about NS1. He played with us for several hours and at the end said he thought this was a pretty damn good game. He went 9-1 his first time ever playing. Haha :-P
I don't mean to stir anything up here, but in regard to this part of your post--AFAIK this is impossible, because with celerity the speed drops down to normal almost immediately when you either a. get hit or b. attack. UWE said that it was meant to help only outside of combat, so I guess this is what they meant.
The sudden stops do feel a bit abrupt though, it would be nice if we could scale the slowdown with the amount of damage that is dealt to the alien. E.g. doing 30% damage to the skulk's hp slows him down 30%, like the bullets are counteracting his inertia. This would make weaker aliens easier to slow down, as well. It's like I'm reproducing physics here! :P